Winter Range Wildlife Harassment

Squirrel

Active Member
Messages
701
Since to understand the puritans sometimes you must deign to listen to the puritans.

Please read and respond to the following: You are king, you decide whether to write a harassment of game violation for any/all of the following scenarios:

a. walking a plowed county road

b. driving a county /state road pulling over to watch game from the shoulder.

c. driving BLM/FS two track roads in a toy (sled, atv, jeep) stopping to ogle at game.

d. gridding raw sage land in a toy in 1-3' of snow.

e. chasing game in a helicopter and capturing them and cutting their antlers off to be sold later.

f. 2 on a sled heeling, bulldogging, and riding a cow elk while the other video tapes it.

g. Feeding stock in a rodeo arena capturing game inside , closing the gate and chasing them around inside the 6' tubular steel corral in a JD tractor until they figure out how to squirm through the gaps.

h. walking sage in near zero snow conditions.

For this to work you must use the following as context. It occurs between Dec- April. Game is within a mile (or less) so by definition it is on winter range at that given moment. All activities are otherwise legal i.e. roads are NOT closed vehicles are properly licensed etc.

I would love to hear details of your logic... legal or otherwise if you care to take the time to elaborate.

I have personally witnessed all of these except one which is a matter of legal record with guilty plea, so I will assume it occurred as testified to in the case. When do you write the ticket and when do you walk away?
 
Squirrel, I may have misunderstood your last sentences. Are you saying that you are aware of each of these scenarios resulting in a citation for harassment? Or merely asking us to state our own opinions about which should rise to that occasion? If the first is true, then I am amazed, but not entirely. I was once berated by a NPS employee at the North Rim who stepped out of her government-owned house to inform me that the buck standing on her front lawn was stressed by my presence (watching from the side of the road) as demonstrated by the fact that he took two steps away from me. Never mind the fact that the home this piece of work occupied required the animals to carry a canteen just to circumnavigate.
 
I will bite:

Most of what you have listed would be hard to prove as wildlife harassment. Based simply on intent. You say I stopped my truck to harass widlife. I say I stopped because my 3 year old said he had to pee, then decided it was too cold... LOl!

but here is goes:

A. Walking a public road - No not at all

B. Driving and stopping on a public road - No not a chance

C. Driving a legally open BLM/FS/2 track road and stopping on said road - No not a chance

D. Not sure what you mean by D. explain... Simply being out and about does not make for wildlife harassment

E. Again depends on where and how... If it was legal then it is not harassment. Illegal then a whole other story.

F. Yes... That fits it perfectly. Illegal in many ways.

G. Again depends. Was there a way to get the wildlife out with chasing?

H. Nope. I have as much right to walk on public land if it is not closed when it is 80 degrees or 20 below. I would hate to think that all my coyote stands, bobcat stands and lion stands this year were all harassment of wildlife.

Ultimately for me to see it as harassment there needs to be a lasting negative effect on the wildlife from my intentional actions to modify the behavior of said animals. If I am out walking for fun or to get out of the house then it is not harassment. Taking picture with out modifying the activities of wildlife not harassment. Chasing them with a snow mobile = harassment. It is not a clear line but there are some easily seen as too much and others not even close in the list.
 
seems You Forgot a few?

i-Even though they are Cow Killers Hunting Pregnant Cows Deep in to Winter Months(December & January!) this STUPID Sshhitt the DWR Allows Ain't doing Our Deer Herd any Favors!










[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
Don't forget the Wyoming game and fish chasing cow elk with 4 wheelers to hunters or using their trucks. NOW that's BS.

All ya got to do is meet the game wardens at the WEA Market in Meetetsee and the game and fish take you out and push those cows right to ya
 
I am a witness to all of these (and A bunch more of course less cut and dried/harder to describe) some of these have been written up, some have not, some have been plead out, some have been to court and tried, I'm just trying to get a feel for the publics view or logical line of reasoning of what is harassment... the key word is harassment, the law isn't written "it's illegal to bother the critters".

In the case of the corral he SHUT the gate locking them inside then chased honking the horn and laughing as they bounced off the panels.

thanks for the responses.
 
a. No way in hell
b. No way in hell
c. Also no way in hell
d. Depends, were deer and elk occupying that area before you arrived. In essence, did you chase them from the ground they were ocupying.
e. Definetely. While I have my qualms with certain study methods I understand the importance of the information that is provided, however, cutting antlers off does not provide us with any scientific knowledge that will help manage game herds.
f. Yes, definetely yes.
g. Yes
h. No.

To me it could only be harassment if you are purposely pursuing the animals and causing them to exert themselves in an effort to flee from your presence and causing obvious harm.
 
Like those before me.... I'll bite.

A. Nope, unless there is a sign at beginning of road stating no staring or ogle(ing) at wildlife :)
B. Nope, unless there is a sign
C. Nope, unless.... you get the point
D. Not sure what gridding is???
E. Nope, unless I am Fish and Game
F. Not sure what bulldoggin a cow elk is but uless you are in Wyoming, it is illegal
G. Were these animals ranch raised elk? If so then legal. IF not, illegal. Wait, did you say 6'?
H. If by sage you mean a Dog and she was chasing game, then yes illegal.

Write the ticket if it is illegal. Unless you are in... How do some put it? In Utard-ville? Then you have to give us some wiggle room. We just admitting Polygamy was to test our faith and blacks not having the priesthood was due to racism. Progress!!
 
(a) No and Ill contact the Media
(b) No and Ill contact your boss and the Media
(c) No prove I was watching the game
(d) No game no violation Ill win in court
(e) Yes but the fish and games does this all the time FYI
(f) Yes but if they have a tag it could be considered a hunt
(g) Yes if they only were trying to lure the game in, no if it was feed for animals and they were chasing them out of the arena.
(h) Its a crime to walk Heck NO.
 
OK. Then I will agree that items E, F, and G do constitute harassment, while D may also, if such gridding occurs in an area where animals are more or less confined to the same space and so have no easy alternative to avoid contact.
 
I did not see Wolves on your list anywhere. All the other things you listed are minor compared to what Wolves do. They are at it 24 hours a day circling the Herds all day and night on the winter range. Calf Elk survival is almost zero where wolves have established good populations. It isn't the killing of the Calves after they are born that is the biggest problem . Its that they were never born to start with.. The stress of the constant pressure from the Wolves either make the the Cows sluff or re-absorb the fetuses. Utah is in for a big supprise when Wolves get established like they are in the States to there north..dgarrett
 
(i.) dink, as in none of the above, I plainly state my objectives of the post but thanks for your keen legal analysis. If I get said ticket are you offering pro-bono? I'm not even sure you could survive the pre-empts and get to the jury. But if there is an opening for groundless accuser and bomb thrower I'm sure you will ace the interview.

Most of the rest of you tend to nail it in line with my take on it, as in the intent plays a huge part in proving the case.

btw bulldogging is the final stage of calf-roping where they do a hands on take down.
 
>(i.) dink, as in none of
>the above, I plainly state
>my objectives of the post
>but thanks for your keen
>legal analysis. If I
>get said ticket are
>you offering pro-bono? I'm
>not even sure you could
>survive the pre-empts and get
>to the jury. But
>if there is an opening
>for groundless accuser and bomb
>thrower I'm sure you will
>ace the interview.
>

Naw, I'm not a lawyer, maybe Mossback will offer to cover your legal fees?
 
I'm personally shocked that you are not. But I cannot hope to keep pace with your intellect so I hereby concede any possible point you would care to make in the hope that you will just go away... but you won't, so that's ok too.

To those with a brain: gridding is a (poor) horn hunting technique of criss-crossing sage slowly on a vehicle looking for sheds. It slips through the cracks of legality if it is "on snow" by forest service regulation. If done on an atv in 0 snow conditions it is an infraction, usually written under destruction of vegetation statutes.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-13 AT 09:46AM (MST)[p] But I cannot
>hope to keep pace with
>your intellect so I hereby
>concede any possible point you
>would care to make

Probably your best move.

So Mossback doesn't provide insurance and or legal fee coverage to their winter crews? :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-13 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]>To those with a brain: gridding
>is a (poor) horn hunting
>technique of criss-crossing sage slowly
>on a vehicle looking for
>sheds. It slips through
>the cracks of legality if
>it is "on snow" by
>forest service regulation. If
>done on an atv in
>0 snow conditions it is
>an infraction, usually written under
>destruction of vegetation statutes.

P.S.

Hiking is for hippies

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq14/ZupancicJoe/2012/P1040281.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
 
>a. walking a plowed county road

no

>b. driving a county /state road
>pulling over to watch game
>from the shoulder.

no

>c. driving BLM/FS two track roads
>in a toy (sled, atv,
>jeep) stopping to ogle at
>game.

no

>d. gridding raw sage land in
>a toy in 1-3' of
>snow.

no

>e. chasing game in a helicopter
>and capturing them and cutting
>their antlers off to be
>sold later.

sure..just looking from a helicopter isn't a prob though.

>f. 2 on a sled heeling,
>bulldogging, and riding a cow
>elk while the other video
>tapes it.

sure, unless she looks like she enjoys all that.

>g. Feeding stock in a rodeo
>arena capturing game inside ,
>closing the gate and chasing
>them around inside the 6'
>tubular steel corral in a
>JD tractor until they figure
>out how to squirm through
>the gaps.

no, everyone knows that animals inside a fence immediately turn into livestock.

>h. walking sage in near zero
>snow conditions.

no
 

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