DEER HERD IN YOUR AREA???

[elkassassin]

OK Boys & Girls!

We're a few years in to the New Deer Management Plan with the 30 or so Units!

I've never liked or agreed with the Buck to Doe Ratio Management Plans of this State!

I've always said:Bring the Herd Numbers up & Buck to Doe Ratio's will take care of their selves!

I've always said we need some Bucks left come the Rut with some Age/Genetics to them!

Here's what I've been seeing happen where I hunt here on the South Slope:

1: A lot of Hunters know that it might be a year,a few years before they Draw another General Permit!

2: A lot of them same Hunters have got the Attitude:I'm gonna Take a Buck no matter what size!

3: No Doubt,2014 was a Tough Year to find a Mature Buck but JUDAS,We're 3 years in & I don't see any change in the Herd!

4: There's so much Pressure on the Herd I don't see how it'll ever change!

5: There's been little change here,the DWR will quickly BRAGG they counted 18 Bucks per 100 Does,Big Deal,How many Does were counted?

6: The Illegal F'N Wheeler Trails just keep expanding by the year with No Enforcement!

7: A few of the Local Hot Spots have been perty much Stomped out/Over Hunted until there Ain't much left!

8: Ya if you want a PISSCUTTER/DINK you can still find oneamn,He's only a 2 Point but look at the Body on Him!

9: Can you tell me where I can find a Buck of any size,I really need the Meat,This Sshhitt Cracks me up!

10: Another thing I've noticed is an Increase in Elk Hunters,No You can't Blame them,if they didn't Pull a General Deer Tag they still wanna go Huntin so the Buy an Elk Tag!

I could sit here for Hours with a never ending list of Reasons why,but I won't!

Just wondering what you Hunters have noticed in the General Areas you've hunted in the last 3 years?
















[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[Darkcloud]

Can't say I have seen a difference in the herd size or size of bucks, but after day 4, it's like we are hunting a limited entry unit. Everybody is gone. I don't know if everybody is shooting 2 points and going home, or they think there is no deer and go home. I didn't notice anymore 2 points in the back of trucks or shots fired then I normally do, but either way, the hunting pressure is a lot lower then normal, at least where I hunt.

 

[hogg_65]

I've seen less bucks in the unit i hunt. 2009 was the last really good year for buck numbers. 2 points on up. The does and fawn numbers seem to stay the same. I spend a lot of time on the unit. I would definitely say that this year 2014 i saw the least amount of bucks in the last 5 years. I am in the dedicated hunter program, i do hunt all 3 seasons every year. Im not just typing this to be negative. I am honestly answering this question. I do hope it will improve in the future. I dont want to see tag cutting anymore. I would like to see some season date changes. Maybe length and start days. I know that some think shorter seasons don't change harvest numbers. Im not sure if i agree with that. I think a few bucks saved are a few bucks to be around in the future.

 

[DW]

Help a dumb coloradoan out. What is "the dedicated hunter" program, and how many guys are huntin "all 3 seasons"? Is this the cause of "too many hunters, too few bucks"? Don't know just askin.

 

[elkassassin]

DW!

Some TARDS will Quickly Blame the DH's for doing all the Damage to the Herd!

The DH Program Allows us to Hunt all 3 Seasons,STICKFLIP,SMOKEPOLE & RIFLE!

We can only take 2 Bucks in a 3 Year Period!

Which few of us ever achieve!

Not cuzz we couldn't punch the tags!

Because Most Hunters that Join the Program are looking to maybe/possibly take a decent Buck!




>Help a dumb coloradoan out. What
>is "the dedicated hunter" program,
>and how many guys are
>huntin "all 3 seasons"? Is
>this the cause of "too
>many hunters, too few bucks"?
>Don't know just askin.










[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[DW]

Thanx for fill in me in elkassassin.

 

[DW]

Does the added pressure from maximum days in the field/hunter push deer in front of guys not as selective, that they wouldn't have seen without the added pressure?

 

[elks96]

In Colorado we are still having a mixed bag! We are seeing a lot of 3 and 4 year old class bucks but it is very hard in even the decent units to break into that 5 and 6 year old class. I have a few reasons!

1. Deer numbers are down and as a result the deer that are easy to get too are the young ones with the does!

2. Like you an increase in ATVs taking people into more remote areas and leaving fewer places for deer to hide!

3. Guys shooting deer from long ranges that normally they would not go after because they are too lazy to hunt! Sorry but when guys shot 3 to 4 hundred more deer survived and bigger bucks were out of reach.

4. Newer hunters mentality and the instant reward group! They add to the mentality that we must kill I order to be successful!

In Colorado our deer have been hit hard by predators, mainly the damn bears!

 

[goofyelk]

No queston, it very's from unit to unit.

One of the local general herds we hunt are doing quite well.
Here are a few of the bucks I've been watching since the hunts ended.

Here's a pic of the 2nd and 3rd bucks locked up just before
Thanksgiving.

I've seen 2 or 3 better, but havn't managed to get pics of them.
I'm kinda excited for what I'm seeing for a general unit.

 

[lundellhunting7]

Hmm.... The unit i hunt i have seen a great change! Tons and tons of 2-3 points with quite a few smaller 4s to... I missed a 180 inch buck with my bow and saw 5 bucks between 160-180... My wife couldnt get a shot off on another buck that was bigger on the one i missed with her muzzy saw 3 bucks between 150-170 then the big one... During the rifle hunt i saw 5 bucks over 170 my buddy ended up missing 2 of them... and killed a giant 3 point. That was only with me hunting 6 days total for all the hunts.

 

[YBO]

What deer herd? 440 Dude 6pack secured a gov't contract to study deer antler development...long story short..he preceded to feed the deer alcohol instead of steroids. Yep, alcohol poisoning. All dead.

 

[BeDawg]

On the front, I saw about the same number of deer. Far less of the big ones and far more hunters than I have ever seen pushing them around. I have lived here my whole life and even hunted it as a kid with my Dad when you could rifle. I know of some spots I can go to without seeing any people and am now seeing as many hunters as I do deer. I am however worried about the cougar population. I see tracks everytime I am out now. Years past, I cannot remember ever seeing a cougar tracks here.

I also hunt the Stansbury Oquirrh unit. Good news for this region, deer herd appears to be stable. Bad news? Buck size has decreased. I attribute the buck size decrease to pressure. The rifle hunt used to be much shorter and as result, rifleman have been more successful. Just look at the harvest percentages if you don't believe me. I bowhunt this region and can I say holy $hit there was alot of pressure. I backpack in and stay weeks at a time. Pressure is up over 400% in the backcountry the last 2 years in a row. I calculated that. Even 2 weeks after the season during the middle of the week, there were hunters like me running around everywhere. Not one time did it apear that people were giving up. Most of the hunters I talked to were dedicated running trail cameras on every tree. I used to see a few 5+ year old bucks but now they are far and few between and are being targeted extensively by everyone there. It is better than shooting 2-points but still hard to handle.

I have also started seeing some out of state hunters. Never even thought an out of stater would consider this unit. Don't mind them there, I just think people are getting after it alot harder these days than ever before with technology and planning.

I shot my first deer the year I turned 14 and have plenty good memories of this place. Thinking about jumping units but doubt I will. Place holds to many memories of my Grandpa and brother who have since passed. My dad too when he had better hunting years.

 

[fullthrottle]

I have seen a decline in quality in the unit I hunt ever since they changed to 30 units, and know for a fact it is becuase there are more hunters on the mountain. I actually really like the idea of 30 or even more units, but they can't just make more units and give more tags in certain areas and have it be effective. I agree cats are out of control in some areas, most of which can't be hunted with hounds. Deer numbers seem to be increasing slightly, but that has nothing to do with the fish and game, our winters the last few years have been a dream, so don't go patting yourself on the back F&G. I personally feel like we have been givin a golden opportunity to give the deer herds a boost the last few years with such fair weather conditions and we just keep pounding them. Dang muleys, sure would like to see them come back alittle. Merry Christmas all.

 

[elkassassin]

Here's another Deal!

And I'll probably get told to go Hunt Colorado!

Been in a few Not so Good/So-So Units in Colorado & seen more Deer in a couple Hours of one Evening than I'll see throughout the year here in TARDville!

Can Somebody SPLAIN it?








[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Better deer than I've ever seen, the area benefited greatly from the 30 unit break up

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters

 

[31incher]

Anyone else see the irony of asking where all the 5+ year old deer are when we are only 3 years into the new change? It might actually take 5+ plus years to start seeing a significant change. Since that's how long it takes them to grow up! Lol I don't pretend to be a wildlife biologist like some people on here but I would just like the dwr to stick to a plan and see what happens. Drives me crazy to watch um bounces from plan to plan, blaming deer numbers on this or that. Just come up with a educated plan and stick with it and dwr has done that so far.

 

[wildfin]

what I saw in montana was major winter kill, that means that age group does not exist.the next season saw allot of mature bucks killed because it seemed thats all there was were I hunted , the following season I saw allot of small bucks killed.this last season I felt that there were little or no mature at all, and the bucks that I saw dead were 2 year old mostly.I suspect that several more seasons will be similar until we pass the void of winter kill and the hunting of what was left.I saw this in a place were its not uncommon to see 100 bucks in 10 days, also a game warden in so. wyo. said it was going to happen there also.montana did cut down doe tags but to late.

 

[Squirrel]

assassin,

I have been blessed to observe a full cycle of regulatory enlightenment and the collapse of same. We started at 10'ish/100 post hunt buck : doe

We had meetin's, ##### sessions, arguments and came up with a plan, much contested but a plan. The squirrel's plan was not favored by the check cashing class...

Ignoring the details it was... OK we'll stop killin' 'em... so we did, for almost 10 yrs. Remember when I posted pics on here??? That was the result of "not killin em".

Then we had a changing of the guard at the regional level. His publicly stated position is "people just want to shoot two points" 25% increases yr over yr are now the norm for 5yrs and counting. We are now printing tags for buck deer that do not even exist. Buck:doe ratios are plummeting, size of the pisscutters is decreasing as recruitment is negative as the old deer get whacked or die of natural causes... very few die of natural causes.

Keep in mind that the OFFICIAL rules have not been changed as far as the dau objectives. But though they are stupid they have discovered that every equation has two sides, and they control the data input to BOTH sides...

I.E. you want more bucks/doe lower the doe count, either lie on the count or whack more does, this leads to... over objective on bucks print more buck tags cash in at both ends.

Hunters are complicit in the deal 'cause they want to hunt, and the dow want to cash the checks. You have a pimp, you have a John and the whore gets @#$%*cked...

We had what EVERYONE IN THE WEST WANTS!!! And we are in a hell bent rush to duplicate what EVERYONE IN THE WEST CURRENTLY HAS.

there IS SOME PUSHBACK but I fear not nearly enough. The dow has the helicopters the guns and the badges, and they use all the tools in their arsenal to achieve their objective, lies intimidation, harassment, false arrest, nothing is off limits.
They have a lot of power but more importantly THEY HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO ALL DAY EVERY DAY, and they are well paid to do it.


But I digress: if you want big deer, quit shooting deer, works every time it is tried, but getting it through politically is almost impossible. The deer do not attend the meetings, just the pimps and Johns. Coming to a mutual decision on how to best $#@% the whore, and how to split the $.

I know it has side implications of hard winters missing age classes etc. But it really is that simple QUIT SHOOTING THEM.

 

[YBO]

Nice. And I thought reducing the ending date to Nov 30th for Gov tags was the answer. Hmmm

 

[Squirrel]

Separate fight YBO, politically and socially meaningful but biologically meaningless, pretty sure you knew that and were being sarcastic, as you seem more astute than most on here...

Biggest threat to our deer herds??? Poachers, predators, or a DOW guy sitting in an office with his finger on the "print" button???

Remember "People just want to shoot two points" and he did not mis-speak, he repeated it later. If you listen sometimes they F#$% up and tell the truth.

Even better quote from later on at the same meeting... "we need to kill these deer for the sake of our children"

Now WHO COULD BE AGAINST THE CHILDREN... (THAT TOO WAS SARCASM)

 

[fullthrottle]

The division hasn't really changed there plan that much with the thirty units, don't be naive. Basically all they did was put a number on a bunch of areas and more or less left the statewide tag numbers the same. Some areas are getting pounded while few others have seen improvement. I think most on here are not trying to be a biologist, they are just using there common sense and sick of being fed the B.S. But maybe this 5 year plan is a way to give the F&G an idea of unit pressure and deer increases/decreases, kinda micro manage Sweet! Then adjust tag numbers accordingly.... Nah I forgot this is Utah what was I thinking. You know what else is kinda funny, you all ways hear people say I'm going to colorado, or wyoming, or idaho, or nevada, or zona, for muleys, but rarely do you hear guys say I'm headed to Utah unless they have big $$ for muleys. Dosn't that speak for itself.

 

[freedomrocks]

In northern ca, the valley blacktail herd is exploding, with the thousands of acres of walnut trees planted in the last 5 years i now see deer every where, In a 3 mile stretch after dark i counted 45 deer including some smoker bucks. The farmers are having to take action in many ways to protect there crops. IMHO they are evolving into whitetails.

 

[2lumpy]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-14 AT 07:33PM (MST)[p]BCat, it depends on what you mean by deer herd and which specific unit your looking at. I'm located next to five different units and they're not all the same. I'm not so concerned with the numbers of bucks, yet, as long as they don't get too low. I'm basically only interested in the number of producing does and fawn survival.

As a general rule, all five units around here have far too few fawns surviving to adults hood. My beliefs are that natural morality rates require a 60% +/- survivability, in order to increase over all herd numbers, and you barely hold your own at 60%. Even with good weather conditions and good habitat our units, over the last thirty years, have had a very difficult time exceeding 60% fawn survival.

In order to see a significant increase, in a 3 or 4 year period, fawn survival needs to hold at 75% to 80%, like we had, across the State, 40 years ago. Actually, when you get about 3 years above 75% the little suckers will explode but we can't seem to hump'em up over that number anymore. It takes a lot of time and money. Run a spread sheet analysis, assuming 60% at break even, and you can see how rapidly the number increase when you start getting back, to back, to back, to back, years at 75%-80% survival.

There seems to be some unforeseen or unplanned increase in buck numbers and age class, on a couple of our units but it's spotty, some hunters are seeing a few more non-yearling bucks, others saw they aren't. If I looked at the UDWR's buck age classifications, off their winter/rut counts, I'd guess the average across 4 of the 5 units, might be up a tick, for the number of bucks as well as the age class of bucks but not significantly. One of the five is the worst I've have seen it in 39 years, in both total deer numbers and in buck age strata. I certainly would not attribute any increase, if there is any increase, as a result of any planned or intentionally managed effort, with one exception, that being the Monroe, where we've been wacking coyotes.......but at the same time allowing the cougar population to increase. (makes no sense) Oh well.

Mild weather, these last three or four years, could have made a huge difference, had there been some additional human effort to complemented it.

That's my perspective from the so. central. Course, my eyes aren't what they used to be.

DC

 

[elkassassin]

Hey 31incher!

The DWR does a count & comes up with 18 per 100 Does & they almost Wet Theirselves!

To them that Means:Let's issue more Tags in that Unit Next year,We have too many surviving Bucks!

If You Think for a second they Care about 5 year old Bucks you are very Blind!

If We end up with some 5+ year old Bucks They'll Slaughter them off in a Hurry!

So tell me 31incher?

If we're seeing No Difference 3 years in,what makes you think all of a sudden in 2 more years everything will be fixed?

I'm all for giving it a chance,don't get me wrong!

By year 5 I'd like you to show me some 31inchers!








>Anyone else see the irony of
>asking where all the 5+
>year old deer are when
>we are only 3 years
>into the new change? It
>might actually take 5+ plus
>years to start seeing a
>significant change. Since that's how
>long it takes them to
>grow up! Lol I don't
>pretend to be a wildlife
>biologist like some people on
>here but I would just
>like the dwr to stick
>to a plan and see
>what happens. Drives me
>crazy to watch um bounces
>from plan to plan, blaming
>deer numbers on this or
>that. Just come up with
>a educated plan and stick
>with it and dwr has
>done that so far.










[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[elkassassin]

I hear you Lumpy!

They/DWR can't Blame the Weather the last several years up here neither!

The Genetics are So PISS POOR around here a Buck could live to be 15 & He'd still be JUNK!

Increased Traffic surely Ain't Helping the Numbers out either!

JUDAS,the number of Road-Kills are Un-Real!

Just like I've said for 40 years!

There's 30+ Reasons Why!




[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[2lumpy]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-14 AT 10:01PM (MST)[p]It's been a very long time since anybodies been able to determine what kind of genetics our deer have. They continue to refuse to do tooth analysis on deer, so it's just a wild guess if anything we're killing is 4 years or 8 years old. I'm still hopeful the genetics are still intact but it'll take a ten year World War and a mandator nation wide 14 to 60 age draft before we'd ever know....... no interest anymore. Maximum recreational opportunity remains the whip that's moving the hay wagon. Private land hunting is your only feasible option.

I think a couple hundred of us need to corporate up, put up $25,000 each in shares, and
get into the private land free range big game business. It wouldn't get much acreage but it would be a start that we could grow from. We could build up a deer and elk herd, sell a couple elk hunts for $15,000 and a couple deer hunts for $10,000 and have $50,000 a year to make improvements with. I hear there's Pahvant land for sale, for the right price.

DC

 

[elkun]

herd. herd hell it takes 3 for a herd! and that's more than we got on the rez!!

 

[hunter567]

Unit 2 is greatly benefited. If we can get another good winter I think we'll see a significant increase in deer numbers next year. Lots of little bucks. Also the biologist cancelled the Late cow elk hunts in our unit. This will also help the deer with no one out there chasing animals in late nov and December. best decision they've made yet.

 

[wileywapati]

to go off or not to go off??

Happy New Year!!!

If you believe magical boundaries and
Telling buck hunters to stay home have a damn
Thing to do with our herds, YA probably are of
The opinion that Bucks give birth and deer regulations
Should be made on a napkin in a diner in the People's Republic
Of Southern Utah.

Carry on.










"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[paddlehead]

I have seen a great improvement. More deer, and more young bucks than ever. That translates into fewer yearling being shot and fewer overall hunters. I like the small units. It keeps people from bouncing from county to county throughout the hunt. The smaller units are managing the deer, but also the number of hunters in any given unit can be more tightly managed, giving deer a better chance by keeping 10 guys off every ridge.

That being said, mild winters are helping too. Went up on the winter range 10 days ago and I have never seen so many deer. When looking for elk, there are deer on every ridge or face that has food on them, and some with no food.

I for one am pleased with the new plan. If bringing the deer back means I don't get to hunt every year, I am willing to do it so my kids can have the great deer hunting I never got to have growing up.

Lets all quit being selfish babies and man up and make some sacrifices to bring the deer back. One year of not having a tag won't kill you. Find someone with a tag and go along for the adventure. Hell, I did that for a few years when I didn't have the time or money when going to school.

 

[TMas]

I don't join in on controversial topics like this much...but here is an honest factor that I think is being overlooked.
10-15 years ago, hell even 5 years ago, it was extremely rare to find a hunter capable of taking shots beyond 4-500 yards effectively. Sure there were guys that hit deer that far and farther, but probably not too common.
With today's equipment, probably mostly due to rangefinders and target turrets on scopes, and the ability to pass knowledge so quickly online, there are more and more guys learning to be very effective at yardages up to 1000 and even beyond.
In a lot of Utah's mule deer country, it is no big deal with quality optics to find a mature buck at 1000+ yards, but to be able to stalk within 3-400 yards AND be able to get a shot given the terrain is much more difficult. Put in a lot of time and practice with a quality scope and even a factory gun and suddenly finding a buck at 700 yards is a slam dunk and you can take your time set up and make an easy kill shot.
I'm not going to get into the "is long range ethical" part of the topic, to each his own. But to me there is no way you can argue that the rapidly growing popularity of long range shooting is going to put BIG bucks at a dis-advantage faster than any other game animal. These big bucks might be living in the gnarliest nastiest of hillsides that are extremely difficult to get within the old school effective ranges of <400 yards, but now many hunters can simply set up across the canyon with 4-5 buddies watching, filming, and talking in normal voices(or even shouting) and put him in the dirt. Just my .02