Score?

sageadvice

Long Time Member
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I Like Big Bucks, i can not lie!

There has been a lot of ink lately on how "score" has diminished the game of hunting bucks. Few out there would prefer a smaller racked buck over a larger one if given the choice. Many guys just don't get any excitement from shooting a small buck when there are others around that might be bigger, or much bigger.

Myself, i like Big Bucks! Here's a big buck i'm holding from 30 years ago. It's a freaking monster, i knew the guy who killed it, it's huge. I never found out what it scored but what difference does that make if i did or not? It's a big buck to appreciate and any talk of score comes second.
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In this picture is My Uncle, left, and his High School best Buddy holding a buck that taped out at over 35". I worked my rear end off looking over hundreds of bucks to finally find and put either of those guys within range of this old Monster that had evaded us for years. My Uncle took him, i was right there and took this picture. This buck is a super trophy yet he doesn't score that well. Who Cares? Who would care? Sorry about the pic, doesn't near do the deer justice, it's older and i never was into pics much, never even owned my own camera.
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This buck is over 33" outside and way tall with good mass. He don't Net score that well because of deductions. My same Uncle took this buck a couple days after i had to leave camp after 3 weeks but i found him, i put my Uncle on to his hide hole, and my Uncle went back by himself and got it done. Score? He still scores fairly well but all said and done, This is a huge buck, a old trophy buck from public land easy to get tag that the score don't really matter!
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Talking scores to me, is further conversation about a Buck. I like big bucks, i like seeing and talking big bucks. Score is over rated but it's conversation. I just can't see how so many are against or get upset when hearing what a buck might score or not. A monster is a monster, score is secondary if that.

Joey






"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
"The problem is score is all some people care about."

Thanks for getting this started!

"all "Some" care about"? You know, i don't know anybody like that.

I know lots of guys, like me, that talk "score" quite a bit but it's just descriptive conversation. I'll take a old big framed buck anytime i see one and if he scores well or not, is just gravy. Mule deer racks, Blacktail too, are such fascinating things.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
If they Ain't 200"+ they're PISSCUTTERS!

And that's why I Hunt PISSCUTTERS!:D







[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY
 
those are some fantastic deer!! that first one is something I have only seen in my dreams!!! I discuss score only to get a perspective. some guys say a 150 buck is a monster and others have much higher standards. when you throw out a score there is no guessing. also pics are very deceiving depending on how guys position the animal. its nice to see a pic with a score to give perspective. you can make a 170 class typ look like a 200 typ with the right camera angle.
 
I agree about scores. A big buck is a big buck. Scores sometimes take away from the hunt and buck, when people get to caught up in score. To each is own.
 
Agreed, score can give others a reference oF the bucks size. Mature heavy bucks are trophy's no matter what they score. I have a buck that I hunted for several years and he whooped me many times. I finally was able to take him and he is not a high scoring buck but he is an old warrior in my book. I love that first picture.

Rich
 
Thanks guys! In that first pic, i'm holding the Rack and i'm looking at you thinking, "can you believe this?"

Some of the best Winter and Spring Time threads are the ones where we guess score. I like those threads but there are always a few guys who give a really low number, with what intention, i can't guess, yet that or they can get to be sore spots on any thread soon enough.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I concur with everything you said, Joey. When someone mentions a "180" class buck that's 28" wide, that brings a visual to mind. As far as I'm concerned, that is all that score is worth.

One of my best buds is an official scorer for B&C. When I tell him I don't want a critter measured, he practically goes berserk. LOL.

But I just don't really care that much about score. The hunt is all about memories, and I don't need a score for that. Scoring the antlers does, however, give you a good reason to fondle them! :) So I always score everything. That's the first thing folks ask anymore. It gets tiresome that there always has to be a number attached.
 
The problem with score is that it leads one to devalue the buck that might not be symmetrical enough to score well under B&C rules. And of course, the desire to get one's name in a book might lead one to cross ethical lines to get that buck.

Big is big.....period. Having a great hunt is what it is about whether it be a monster or a hard earned barely legal buck. The positives about score is that it gives us a reference point, whereas 28 wide by 20 high can be a stud or a pencil thin buck with little crab claws.....doesn't really give us a accurate description.
 
Big is big.....period

I am an OM for B&C.....and the thing I enjoy least about the job is breaking the news to a 200" buck killer that per B&C scoring system it nets 168........ and then watch their happiness melt into unhappiness.

Some big game monsters just shouldn't be measured. They are absolute trophies but just don't fit into the way B&C's measuring standard is written. No system is perfect.....but it is what it is.



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I liked it big...fondler doesn't
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-15 AT 00:08AM (MST)[p]"Big is big.........period." I agree 100%. That, I've been told, is what SCI scoring is attempting to accomplish. No points for symmetry, balance, equilibrium etc., just inches of antler, mass and points. In other words, give the animal total credit for what it's body produced.

I wish SCI separated high fence animals from non-high fence animals but it's their business and they get to do it any which way they chose.

I'm good with B&C's scoring system and their philosophy as well, I have to admit, I find a symmetrical set of antlers is more attractive then a similar sized asymmetrical set. But I recognize that the B&C system does not give credit to the total amount of antler grown by the animal, in their "typical category".

Truth is, I like the idea of having both systems of measurement, they both give credit to these amazing animals and I think the two systems actually compliment the Big is Big interest in antlered animal hunting.

Further, I think a little differently than a lot of folks, actually I know I do. I don't believe the "trophy scoring clubs" devalue animals that don't measure up. I believe we should alway celebrate excellence in our lives and the excellence that ole mother nature delivers up. Reaching for better, seek better, improving quality, are all better than settling for mediocrity. Just because I'm a fat, ugly, out of shape, slow moving, dim-witted Utard, doesn't mean I don't appreciate excellence nor does it mean that I don't seek and work to be the best I can be.

Who's interested in watching or driving races cars that can only go 73 miles an hour. I don't drive cars160 miles an hour but I sure like to get down the road.

Who would support professional baseball with pitchers that could only throw 67 miles an hour. I played baseball and never saw a 90 mile an hour fast ball. I was never a great baseball player but I sure enjoyed playing baseball.

Who's going to get excited and want to play golf, if every hole is 89 yards from the tee box. I play golf and turn a score in the 90's. I'm not a great golfer but I sure like to play golf.

Who's going to go to a rodeo where the rough stock crow-hops across the area. I never was much a bull rider but I sure got a thrill out of getting on and getting tossed on my head.

I never killed a B&C qualifying anything, but I've wanted to and I've tried to. Yet, I've killed a fair number of mediocre critters.

I too can't understand why some of us find it so offensive or why some believe trophy hunting is so threatening to the general publics hunting life style. I believe it is, in fact, what drives hunting. I believe, it's the Big "whatever" that creates the interest, draws people into the life style, keeps people trying for excellence, etc. etc.

I believe that is what T. Roosevelt believed as well, when he founded the B&C club. Motivating hunting via rewarding excellence in the animal.

Further I certainly don't support managing all hunting for trophy quality animals, that is what I think would devalue them, (if they were grazing round ever corner they wouldn't be very interesting anymore) but I do believe there should be more areas, in all States, where a higher percentage of these animals are allowed to mature, than we are presently managing for. I fully understand that requires a significant reduction in harvest ratios but I believe that is what a fairly large portion of the hunting community would like and if that's what they want, I believe more opportunity should be provided for that group of sportsmen.

I am absolutely opposed to the "maximum recreational opportunity" management concept, as I would be opposed to 67 mile an hour professional baseball, yet there is certainly a place for 67 mile and hour baseball.

Yes, hunting is the natural character of humans, we seek to preserve that natural need in the human race but "the trophy", be it the venison or the size antler is the reward and the motivation. I believe suppressing either the antler or the meat motivation/reward are a threat to our future.

But that's just me and I've finally learned, after 50 years of preaching, that my ideas are pretty lonesome.

DC
 
Score is what we did after the Bars closed in the old days. LOL

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Looks like we are all pretty much on the same page here as far as score. Still, there will be times ahead where score becomes a sore spot during threads and guys will claim that that's why they won't post pictures and such. I'd like to help avoid that if we can.

2Lumpy brought up some interesting points of view, his thoughts are always welcome by me, if nothing else, i just like the way that he picks them up and lays it down. The Man can run with a subject and i always value his opinion.

When reading some of this stuff though guys, i just can't help but wonder if we as a whole, should quarantine the whole State of Utah from the rest of the Mule deer nation.:)

There have been hundreds of threads with as many views and opinions on just how the deer in that state should be managed yet nobody seems to agree with each other and aside from a few really good areas, with all the habitat in that State available, the deer hunting is still touted to not be that great by Residents and a nightmare to even get a decent tag, let alone a good hunt, by a NR.

Many there also want a say in how the other nearby States manage their game as well. Seems funny to me but I as a Resident of Calif., thank the lucky stars that i'm where none of the other States care about. We are not without our own concerns yet all can hunt bucks with a decent chance every single year here, good bucks in decent LE areas ever 4 or 5 years, or we too can hold out for the better hunts if that's what we want to do. Granted, our best don't compare to Utah's best but i've never considered how good my hunt was on the quality of buck taken or even if i took a buck at all.

In my opinion, Utah has screwed the pooch in their own state and trying their best to screw it up in other areas as well. I have no desire to ever endorse any program that takes away opportunity from common Joe Hunter in favor of lining the pockets of a fat cat middlemen-brokers, i will resist technology innovations that lean into the realm of Fair chase hunts, and scream loud and clear to preserve our hunting heritage as it has been, not for how it could progress and was surely destroyed long ago in other Countries.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-15 AT 06:22PM (MST)[p]Sage, your the best. You're always able to figure out a way to give me a very nice compliment and deliver a stern back-hand, at the same time. :) I love it!

You are right though, I was out of line saying I wanted other States to manage for some additional mature bucks, because some of their sportsmen say that's what they prefer.

It truly is none of my business how other State's or the sportsmen there manage their big game. Point well taken and I apologize for the inappropriate nature of my comment.

Sage, I appreciate your insight and your dedication. You truly do offer sageadvice, you're a good man!

Long live hunting and the outdoor life style.

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-15 AT 08:54PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the slack 2lumpy...and the kind words! There are some fundamental differences in the way that we both see the future of our game but no doubt, we both care very much in the direction that we are headed.

I think we both feel deep down that we are at a cross roads. Instead of moving forward, one way or another, and see for ourselves later on where the road we did take lead us, i'd rather step back a bit and really go over the maps. We just can't afford to make too many mistakes in where we are going. Not on these issues, it's just too important!

Long live ol Mossyback up in the country few but the most hardy travel :)

joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Some people really are driven by the score. I'm fine with that. My dream bucks are more defined by the "wow" factor. No doubt many of those types of bucks would score well too. I shot one this year, not because he was a super buck. He was kind of average actually, but I just liked the look of him.

As far as management is concerned, I don't know any answers. Different people want more mature bucks and are willing to sacrifice a few years hunting to get that. I love to hunt deer and live in fabulous country for it. I lean toward opportunity over size of bucks. I expect that what is really healthy for a herd will produce more deer (opportunity) and more mature bucks. What that would take no doubt would look similar and different in many areas at the same time.

Great pics above. That first buck's rack is going to be burned in my mind for a long time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-15 AT 00:24AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-15 AT 00:19?AM (MST)

I believe yours is the common way of thinking mmwb, however, a fairly significant percentage (all be it, a minority) of hunters would rather hunt a little less and hope to sacrifice some time afield for a different hunting experience, ie; the greater chance for a more mature deer.

In Utah, it seems as if that minority make up between 30-35% of the deer hunters. My believe is that is a pretty significant minority and our limited resource opportunities should be more equitably represented in the number deer each group get to pursue. I would feel the same way if 70% of the hunters preferred archery over rifle/muzzleloader.

Now just because a guy say's he'll hunter deer less often, in order to have a different experience, doesn't mean he can't be hunt cow elk, bull elk, ducks, geese, chukkers, rabbits, antelope, goats, moose, or doves, while he's waiting for his turn to hunt more mature deer. There is no need to miss out on "hunting" because there is a great diversity of opportunity, if we choose to take it.

i know I'm in the minority but that does not stop me from believing we should manage to the interest of the people that we are representing. If 70% of sportsmen want to archery hunt rather than rifle/muzzleloader hunt, we should adjust our management to those interest levels. Or visa-versa. As these interest levels rise and fall we should adjust our management to those changes in interests. I believe our longevity depends greatly on our ability to serve our cliental, as best we can.

But, there is little chance it will ever happen, so on down the road we go, doing the best we can to enjoy all we can, for as long as we can.

DC
 
I like big bucks (and bulls) too!
Thanks for sharing the pics from the past! Those qualify as big bucks! :)
Score is in many cases just a number. I remember a buck from central WA that scored right at about 190 and was one of the most unimpressive racks I have ever seen - spindly and narrow but it had the tine length. If that buck had been standing next to any of the bucks in the pictures Joey shared above, nobody would have even given the spindly B&C buck a second glance.
 
2lumpy and sageadvice,

Just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your guys point of view. Both of you have sound thoughts and it always leaves me thinking about my own point of view. So thank you for taking the time and putting it down in to words for the rest of us to read.

And about the topic......My friends and I go by gross score when talking about or showing a deer. I've had exactly one mule deer officially scored since it was the Texas state non-typical record even though I've killed 10+ that would make the net 145 base for Pope and Young.

That first deer is a smoker anywhere, anytime by anyone and the width on the second one is awesome. Thanks for posting them.
 
I live in Utah and I still drive to California and pay NR prices. People call me an idiot......what can I say? I love the B Zones, I love Modoc, I love Siskiyou. I'll put X3B against any hunt in Utah that takes the same amount of points to draw.

As far as the big bucks topic, it's all about the experience to me. I go to the field looking for that buck that gives me the charge when I see him. I usually don't spend much time 'analyzing' when my adrenal gland says it's go time.

That being said, I also respect how others want to do it. If you want to critique and catalog each deer you see looking for a magic number, more power to you. Just have fun and respect the other guy.

I've been around long enough to know what a good buck is in the places I hunt. I can have just as much fun killing a tall three point in the Yolla Bollas, or a 100" whitetail in Northern Idaho as I do killing big mules on the Wasatch, Humboldts, or Warner's. ---------SS
 

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