Fire up the lynch mob!!!

"But people seeing a deer alive after the season isn't evidence it was poached!"

I don't know anything about this deer. I didn't even see it at the Expo, must have missed it. I hope it wasn't poached. That is one giant buck!

All that said, I am getting so tired of poachers. If you can't do it the right way, then don't do it. Why are so many people so willing to just completely disregard the law and think they can kill an animal however/whenever they want?
 
Hopefully it was not poached. Poachers have zero respect for anything or any one u owe it to the animal u harvest to do it the right way
 
Reading comments below the article it seems like a handful of people have information on this buck. It looks like it was shot in an area where hunting was not allowed after season closed. One person in the comments sections said they had found the head less carcass.

I am willing to bet this will end badly for the guy. It does not look good.
 
Vanilla,

a bunch of people saying they saw a deer after the season isn't evidence of a crime. People actually providing photos of the deer post season is evidence which this is what the article is claiming. I know you don't think details are important but they are so you might want to pay attention to them.

As for the gentleman claiming to have found a headless carcass it likely was not this deer. The cape of the buck appears to have been used in the actual mount and not an extra but a couple better pictures of the mount could clear that up.
 
Game and Fish is usually pretty thorough. If it's the Nate Strong in the Big Piney area, then its definately different than the deer he posted on his facebook page on September 10. Nice buck in of itself. If poached, I expect the shooter will get nailed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 12:55PM (MST)[p]I don't know why I bother but...

Testimony is evidence in a criminal prosecution.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 02:23PM (MST)[p]Tri,

You said "a bunch of people saying they saw a deer after the season isn't evidence of a crime". If they said it in court, their statements would be evidence.
 
Not "of a crime" Utah400.

Trust me. If all they had was people saying they saw a deer post season it wouldn't go to trial. It didn't last time. Now it does give the investigators enough cause to investigate further and see if they can actually find "evidence of a crime". The words are important.
 
The words are important. So...just to be clear, you are saying testimony is evidence? Testimony can be used to prove a crime occured. Trust me!

Now on to better things than legal arguments...

Good luck to everybody this coming year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 06:47PM (MST)[p]Sworn testimony from an eye witness is admissible evidence in a civil or a criminal proceeding. And in some cases, it may enough to support a conviction. You are correct Utah400Elk and Tristate wrong - yet again.

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

-Hawkeye-
 
We aren't talking about an eye witness Hawkeye and you know it. If what you say is true then they would have all ready arrested this suspect. They can't call any of these people an eyewitness because they haven't even been able to prove any crime was even committed much less who committed it. You know that Hawkeye if you don't you aren't much of a lawyer.

All they have is suspicion.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]Hey Tri, you must not be aware that there are many convicted murderers that have received death sentences or life imprisonment even when the body of the deceased can't be found! I guess you also aren't aware that those people being talked about are initial witnesses that get investigations underway. That is what is happening right now and why the G&F GW can't speak about the case right now. If it can be proved that the picture(s) were taken after any legal season in the area closed, the guy will get nailed because that deer is unique and one of a kind with that rack. This same thing happened when a 19 year old kid wacked a big mulie up near Worland, WY a few years ago that people had pictures of. He put it up on Facebook holding the head well after the season was closed there and he then claimed the buck was killed 40 miles north of there in a late open season when people called the G&F. He was a repeat offender in a couple of other poaching cases and is now a felon and serving a few years in federal prison. Furthermore, Hawkeye was not commenting on this particular incident, but rather on your incorrect theory that was brought up before and debunked. Amazing that a taxidermist is arguing this with two lawyers, but I guess since you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently and that gives you your law degree!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 08:06PM (MST)[p]Actually I am aware of that. I am also aware everything in that statement is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I have also had this same discussion with many lawyers and everyone of them has agreed with me. I tend to believe them over a butthurt internet whiner.

Yes or no Hawkeye would you advise a client to accept a plea agreement if all the prosecutor had was one person saying he saw a deer alive after the close of the season?

Why haven't they arrested this man yet, and the news actually claims they have more evidence than a person saying he saw a live deer?

What's amazing is how you say this is how the investigation begins AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID ABOVE. At best this raises enough suspicion for wardens to begin an investigation, but it is not enough alone to convict people. If it was enough then there isn't any need to investigate. THESE PEOPLE DID NOT SEE A CRIME. THEY SAW A DEER. PERIOD.
 
He is not going to be arrested on eye witnesses alone, but that evidence is absolutely admissible in a criminal preceding. The judge or jury would weigh the evidence presented and decide what weight to give the testimony. Saying he would be arrested already has nothing to do with the case facts. It might lead an investigation in a certain direction, but just having an eye witness who says they saw the deer doesn't mean that law enforcement would go out and arrest the guy. It's amazing how some people think they are experts in criminal law and are really taxidermists.

Rich
 
Lostinoregon,

What crime did they witness? Who, not what, can they identify?

I think this is a case where your professionalism and definition is just a little looser than mine.

By the way I never said it's not admissible?

By the way I deal with wildlife laws every single day of my life. It's my job as a taxidermists to know how to be legal every single day and I take it seriously. I have no intention of being one of those poor prove who get a wildlife conviction because I didn't know the law. Is feeding your family dependant upon you understanding wildlife law?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]There does not seem to be any question as to who shot the deer. The only issue is when was it shot. Testimony from eye witnesses that saw the deer alive after the the hunting season closed would be circumstantial evidence that the deer was shot after the season closed. Circumstantial evidence is a fact that can be used to infer another fact. A defendant can be convicted based upon circumstantial evidence if it is enough to establish guilt beyond a unreasonable doubt. I know nothing about the facts of this particular case. Therefore, my comments are general in nature.

I never thought I would find myself arguing the rules of evidence with the likes of Tristate. I am violating my own rule against arguing with idiots.

-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 09:22PM (MST)[p]Tri thinks he's now an expert on this because he has to make sure an animal brought into his shop has a legal tag on it and that's about it! Hey genius, a person doesn't have to be the actual witness to the crime to get someone convicted depending on what they can testify to and how credible they are. They might even be able to track the animal in question to the taxidermist that did the job and come up with evidence one way or the other as to whether the deer was poached. It could be that it could even lead to proof that the taxidermist isn't as honest as you are and took in an illegal animal that was poached. It's amazing how a number of us have been in court as a part of our careers either prosecuting or defending cases and even give you the time of day on stuff like this!
 
Well tristate,

I am the Superintendent of the the Oregon State Police. I am responsible for the operations of the entire agency ( over 1300 employees) which includes the fish and wildlife division which had 103 sworn troopers that are responsible for the enforcement of all wildlife laws in Oregon. So yes, everyday I deal with the issues at hand. I care deeply about the natural resources and committed the last 29 years of my life to that end.

Rich
 
Lost, tri-tip had dinner with 4 fake lawyers, and he's not afraid to do it again! He's got your experience in law enforcement beat. And there is zero doubt he knows much more about poaching than all of us.

Hawkeye---don't even go there with this clown. He'll bark, bark, and bark...and then when what you say will happen happens, he'll bark some more claiming to be right again.

Hope this guy didn't poach the deer. But if he did, nail him to the wall.
 
Lostinoregon,

You're not a lawyer either. Welcome to the club.

Hawkeye,

Most of what you said until this was pretty good until this doozy.

"Circumstantial evidence is a fact that can be used to infer another fact."

We already know that many of those "eyewitnesses" from the Hyde Park buck were either lying or mistaken about the date they saw that deer. Your interpretation of the word "fact" is looser than your definition of a witness. Troubling. By the way you dodged my question. I am sure you expected Topgun to answer for you but you must have forgot you told him sit.
 
Actually Topgun I dealt with Cites permitting today, lion importation yesterday, Friday I have a board meeting for the state Taxidermy board and who knows where that will go. I deal with harvest regulations pertaining to all the game species here in Texas. I collect biologic samples for TPWD. I guide hunters. I work on habitat manipulation projects. I regularly meet with state biologists and game wardens. Topgun you typically have to deal with regs from a couple of states. I have to deal with regs from all over the world. And Hawkeye, I am a taxidermist all day every day and the majority of my income comes from this business.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 09:14AM (MST)[p]>Actually Topgun I dealt with Cites
>permitting today, lion importation yesterday,
>Friday I have a board
>meeting for the state Taxidermy
>board and who knows where
>that will go. I
>deal with harvest regulations pertaining
>to all the game species
>here in Texas. I
>collect biologic samples for TPWD.
> I guide hunters. I
>work on habitat manipulation projects.
> I regularly meet with
>state biologists and game wardens.
>Topgun you typically have to
>deal with regs from a
>couple of states. I
>have to deal with regs
>from all over the world.
>And Hawkeye, I am a
>taxidermist all day every day
>and the majority of my
>income comes from this business.
>

Yep, you're a taxidermist all day every day and should stick with that profession and stay out of all these discussions where you don't have a clue about which you flap your gums. You also have not a clue of what I dealt with to make that statement. When you've been in court over 100 times like I was in my career and never lost a case come back and see me, LOL! In the meantime keep sniffing that eyeball glue in the shop!
 
Guess what FLopgun, I have never lost a case either just like you. You know why? YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED A CASE! I like how the tomato cop acts like junior G-man in the last thread and Perry mason in this one. You are no more expert than me.
 
>Guess what FLopgun, I have never
>lost a case either just
>like you. You know
>why? YOU HAVE NEVER
>TRIED A CASE! I
>like how the tomato cop
>acts like junior G-man in
>the last thread and Perry
>mason in this one.
> You are no
>more expert than me.


Keep flapping your gums, LOL! Again you have no idea what I did during my career, so you are full of bull with your continual trolling, condescending remarks. I didn't say I tried a case, as I'm not a lawyer. I filed over 100 cases with various County Prosecutors throughout the state of MI as the complainant for the State of MI. 99% resulted in guilty pleas either at the arraignment or pre-trial conference due to the information and solid evidence I had compiled and presented to the Prosecutors. The remainder that went to trial were also found guilty with the information and evidence that was presented on my behalf and with my testimony on the witness stand. The last ten years or so of my career when I was a Senior Level Investigator I very seldom even talked to anyone in the Prosecutors Offices other than the Secretary who typed up the complaints because the staff knew that when I brought something in all they needed to do was have it typed up and brought in to them for a signature. It was pretty nice to have built up that kind of trust throughout many jurisdictions. Now how about telling us about all your court experience.
 
Blah blah blah. You still haven't ever "won" a case. You still aren't a lawyer.

How many times did you get a conviction when all you had was somebody who said they had seen a tomato?


I have never tried a case in my life. I have never ever tried to convince people here of that. Like I said before all of my knowledge here is from other actual ATTORNEYS who have seen this. Plus having to grow up with five attorneys in my family.

Flopgun do you realize you have been arguing with me when we pretty much said the same damn thing from the start?
 
3350wydeer1.jpg

8371wydeer2.jpg


I don't want to sidetrack the Evidence and Criminal Procedure study group discussion, but this post hits too close to home. I've been watching this buck for years. My wife and kids called him "the Beast," and we spent many summer nights watching him grow. I rarely take pics or post anything on the internet, but I have included a couple shots from my homemade phone scope. The first time I showed this buck to my wife, I told her that God doesn't make them much bigger, and some idiot would end up poaching him. Needless to say, I am disappointed. If he was taken legally, all props to the hunter. If he was poached, there is a special place in he11 reserved for you my friend. I'll be following this one. RIP Beast!
 
Lawhawg,

Thanks for sharing the pics. DO you really believe heaven or hell can be decided by if you poach a deer or not?


Topgun,

There is a special ignore feature on your computer. Its called the off button. Its a bumber when someone won't just play along with crazy isn't it?
 
>
>
>Thanks for sharing the pics.
>DO you really believe heaven
>or hell can be decided
>by if you poach a
>deer or not?
>

For guys like you, I'm sure it's a forgone conclusion.
 
This is almost as good as a Claude Dallas post....



Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
 
Going around this deer was taken to expo without hunter knowing the taxidermist was taking it there and sounds like no license was provided for this deer. Sounds like poaching and bad decision by taxi for not getting a license. Just wut I've heard so we will see how it plays out. And these dummies poaching animals are just that dumb!!! Lots of law abiding hunters keep tabs and photos of these critters. So pictures will be available on most well known animals. This buck has been living in same place for several years and many pictures have been taken from velvet stage to winter time DAMN SHAME!!!
 
DDM---It will be very interesting if it comes out that the deer was poached and not only the poacher gets nailed, but also the taxidermist! If that happens, I wonder what our resident Troll will have to say when I stated earlier in that thread that might be possible and what breaks the case wide open along with people that can present pictures documenting the buck was alive after the legal seasons in the area!
 
Flopgun,

This shows how stupid you are. If the taxidermist broke the law regarding his requirements of documentation, what some shmow claims he saw of some deer is going to be about as important as a midnight infomercial in Siberia.
 
>Flopgun,
>
>This shows how stupid you are.
> If the taxidermist broke
>the law regarding his requirements
>of documentation, what some shmow
>claims he saw of some
>deer is going to be
>about as important as a
>midnight infomercial in Siberia.


The only "shmow" is you and another ridiculous post! You just keep spouting off and have no idea how evidence works in a case. ALL evidence right from the getgo when the people who went to the DWR questioning the legality of the deer that started officials looking into whether the animal was taken legally can and probably will be used to either get a guilty plea or go to trial if charges are filed and the accused pleads not guilty. If the taxidermist took in an illegally poached animal he may well face charges too along with being called to testify in the case for the prosecution. From just what has been alleged so far there may well be two people up on various charges before it's all said and done. Let's just wait and see what transpires, as it may not take that long to conclude the investigation into this one.
 
Flopgun,

Shutup and think. You are just arguing to look tuff. You ain't tuff. So try and be smart. If what was posted is true, about what the taxidermist did, your make believe eyewitnesses are irrelevant now and you should be happy. Its like you have just gained entry into John Gacy's house and you are stepping over dead boys to get tuff on how many tomatoes are in his fridge.
 
You guys want the real story on this buck?......here it is...
This buck was shot on a special whitetail deer tag
which ran till the end of November 2015....the hunter shot it and thinks it was a Hybrid---cross between Muley and Whitetail...and he questioned the game warden before the season started to see it hybrids were legal on a whitetail tag...so in turn now the buck is being DNA tested to see if it is a hybrid......so if it comes back positive he's clear....I've had these tags before and in Wyoming you can Legally shoot 2 bucks in a season... Mule deer on a general season tag and a Whitetail buck on special draw tag...
GLAD LYNCH MOBS ARE ILLEGAL CAUSE IF HE's CLEAN A LOT OF THESE
LYNCH MOBBERS ON THIS SITE WOULD BE FEELING A LITTLE GUILTY THEMSELVES...
 
If thats the true story the hunter is either stupid or thats a new excuse because this story got out to the public. That buck sure looks like a mule deer to me. If it comes back as pure mule deer I hope they throw the book at him.
 
That's a mule deer, I don't care what dna testing comes back as. What argument could you possibly make as to that deer being a whitetail? I hope they take this guy's hunting privileges away for life.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-16 AT 10:06AM (MST)[p]I see no lynch mob here at all! All I'm seeing is people saying if proof is found that the deer was taken illegally then he should be prosecuted. I'm not even going to reply to the Troll because he can't come up with a meaningful post on anything if his life depended on it! This thread is strictly speaking to what appears to be a huge mule deer and if what you are saying is true about this deer supposedly "possibly" being a hybrid and shot on a whitetail tag seems far fetched. However, anything is possible and I can't believe anyone would take a chance on shooting something like that and having to rely on a DNA test for the animal to be proved legal or not. I'd like to have heard the conversation between the guy and the GW and what the GW offered up regarding the legality. Now what will the DNA test show? I know nothing in the law that says it's legal to guess what you're shooting and then require the state to do a DNA test to see whether it's legal or not, but that's what you're saying is happening. So now what if the DNA test shows there is a small chance there is whitetail blood in that buck? Is it then a mule deer or a whitetail because of the percentages involved that the test may find if it's a cross between the two. Hey, maybe this will be the first case taken to the Supreme Court regarding DNA tests having to be done to show what is legal or illegal to shoot! IMHO I'd like to know what characteristics that animal had to make the shooter in any way think it was a hybrid and then take the chance of shooting it and having what you say is now happening. If what you say is true and that animal comes back as a mulie, IMHO the guy needs the book thrown at him for being down right stupid! One quick question. Why does the sign on that buck say "230" Gross Mule Deer" if the taxidermist and/or hunter that took it to the Expo is trying to pass it off as a hybrid and legally taken on a whitetail buck tag?
 
Wow. This story gets cooler by the minute. I am very interested to see what the wildlife agencies recognize as a hybrid and what determinate genetic factors define it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-16 AT 06:02PM (MST)[p]"You guys want the real story on this buck?......here it is...
This buck was shot on a special whitetail deer tag
which ran till the end of November 2015....the hunter shot it and thinks it was a Hybrid---cross between Muley and Whitetail...and he questioned the game warden before the season started to see it hybrids were legal on a whitetail tag...so in turn now the buck is being DNA tested to see if it is a hybrid......so if it comes back positive he's clear....I've had these tags before and in Wyoming you can Legally shoot 2 bucks in a season... Mule deer on a general season tag and a Whitetail buck on special draw tag...
GLAD LYNCH MOBS ARE ILLEGAL CAUSE IF HE's CLEAN A LOT OF THESE
LYNCH MOBBERS ON THIS SITE WOULD BE FEELING A LITTLE GUILTY THEMSELVES..."

Next to any of City boy Piglets 1000s of post, this one here might possibly be the dumbest ever.

Hey Longun, what part of that buck looks anything like a whitetail to you?

How about the sign under the buck that says "Nate Strong 230" Mule Deer".
 
>This is almost as good as
>a Claude Dallas post....
>
>
>
>Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good
>health for granted because it
>can be gone in a
>heartbeat. Please go back and
>read the last line. This
>time really understand what it
>says.

Nothin that Good Wisz!

Claude Threatened to GUT Shoot Me!




[font color="blue"]"I Don't get No Sleep!I Don't get No Peace!"

Hey Founder?

Did You get Permission From shotgun1 before you made your Last
Post?
[/font]
 
I just realized that I have some Boone and Crockett whitetails. I have been looking at this all wrong. The expo is good for something after all!!!!!

Rich
 
CSI--wildlife edition!

That buck must have had a super distinct backside making it look like a whitetail to make someone have the guts to kill it thinking it's a hybrid. If the genetic test pans out, good for the hunter. He's certainly got a more keen eye for mixed genes than I do.

But if it comes back all mule deer, well...
 
Ummmm.....i thought all mule deer were originally. WT/BT cross? If this comes up with any WT in it is the case lost? If so, you are going to see huge jumps in license fees to pay for all the future DNA test challenges by poachers. You will see fewer hunts in areas with both species too, just to stop this BS. Guys who defend this as a possible WT are morally corrupt in my opinion.

On the other hand I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, so I will wait to make my decision. Hear the real factual story not the Internet facts.

Mike Henne
 
Actually Vanilla stumbled around a point. One of the first things we look at when we look for external phenotype signs of hybridization in mule deer is the back legs.
 
LMAO!!! Listen to the Piglet, trying to make it sound like he's an expert on the subject. The Little Man syndrome is going full bore this morning, Huh City boy?
 
I am an expert on the subject you moron. I have examined several hybrid cases and I hold a degree in Wildlife sciences. The metatarsal glands of cervids are usually different in size and location in the case of hybrids. That's usually one of the very first things we look at upon examination of a presumed hybrid.
 
I'm just getting the true story out there.....now if it comes back a Mule Deer...He's in big trouble...but if it comes back as a Hybrid what are you Computer Specialists going to say to that?

The one question I have is the taxidermist that did the work
would have the tag info BEFORE mounting it...and he would of seen the special whitetail tag..and from what someone said he didn't have permission from the hunter to show the mount...
Yelum the buck was killed on private property in which he had permission to hunt and where he killed it there is hybrids right on the Green River that range from Pinedale to LaBarge.
 
>Yea whatever, Runt. You're a lying
>sack of $h!t.


Actually the Troll is correct for the first time in all his posts on this website! He's still a Troll though!
 
"but if it comes back as a Hybrid what are you Computer Specialists going to say to that?"

I say I'm going to start getting some late season Whitetail tags and shooting me some late season Muleys, er I mean hybreds.
 
shotgun1 the pics I see it definitely looks Mule deer...I'm not defending the guy...just getting all the story out there..
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-16 AT 11:47AM (MST)[p]I really can't see how even if DNA testing or checking the metatarsal to show it has some whitetail in it that it would get the guy off the hook. There are no outward signs on either end of that buck that remotely make it look like it's part whitetail and as far as I know that's the determining factor the G&F uses to determine species, not Lab testing. Just because that buck inhabited an area where there are whitetails doesn't give the guy the right to take it and put a whitetail only tag on it. Did he dart the thing before killing it to check the metatarsal glands? It that buck was tagged with a whitetail only tag IMHO no matter what a Lab test would show that guy should be brought up on poaching charges. I wish the pictures I have in my files of a hybrid buck were better to post on here because we saw him a number of times and it had a whitetail colored body and small ears, but a very weird bifurcated rack that obviously came from a mule deer lineage. I had an either species tag for the area and would have probably shot him as a unique animal, but we never saw him off private property or during legal shooting hours.
 
The problem here Topgun is we don't know what Fish and Game told him. If they are allowing hybrids shot on a whitetail tag I guess we have to roll them dice and see what people bring in. Hold them accountable when they screw up but if they are playing by letter of the law then we have to respect it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-16 AT 01:47PM (MST)[p]>The problem here Topgun is we
>don't know what Fish and
>Game told him. If
>they are allowing hybrids shot
>on a whitetail tag I
>guess we have to roll
>them dice and see what
>people bring in. Hold
>them accountable when they screw
>up but if they are
>playing by letter of the
>law then we have to
>respect it.

Agree with you 100%, but I can't imagine a G&F GW telling anyone to use a whitetail only tag on an animal like the one we're talking about that has all the outward characteristics of a mule deer. A tag like I hunt on that allows either is a no brainer, but I'm wondering if the G&F now needs to come out and say that an animal having both of the outward characteristics of a mulie and a whitetail like I have seen can be taken on either type of tag. I'm wondering if GW Hymas that is investigating the case is the one that the guy allegedly talked to about hybrids or if he even talked to anyone and this is the only "out" that he has conjured up. This case may be a real cans of worms compared to that city buck that was shot a couple years ago and it will be interesting to see what develops. As of right now the guy is innocent until proven guilty and that's the way it should always be.
 
I see a hell of an increase in applications for those late season additional whitetail tags in our future...
 
Longun said:

"You guys want the real story on this buck?......here it is...
This buck was shot on a special whitetail deer tag
which ran till the end of November 2015....the hunter shot it and thinks it was a Hybrid---cross between Muley and Whitetail...and he questioned the game warden before the season started to see it hybrids were legal on a whitetail tag...so in turn now the buck is being DNA tested to see if it is a hybrid......so if it comes back positive he's clear....I've had these tags before and in Wyoming you can Legally shoot 2 bucks in a season... Mule deer on a general season tag and a Whitetail buck on special draw tag...
GLAD LYNCH MOBS ARE ILLEGAL CAUSE IF HE's CLEAN A LOT OF THESE
LYNCH MOBBERS ON THIS SITE WOULD BE FEELING A LITTLE GUILTY THEMSELVES..."

Actually, here is the REAL story: http://www.gohunt.com/read/news/breaking-story-230-inch-mule-deer-buck-poached-in-wyoming

Only reason to feel guilty is if you poached this deer or defended the poaching of this deer. He only got hit with a misdemeanor, which is a shame.
 
How would anyone think they could pick off a deer like this and get away with it? It seems anymore that if there's a giant buck around, there's also people watching and pictures all over the internet, so why would he set himself up to get busted by putting the mount at the expo?
 
Time for Tristate to enter the fray to tell us how poaching is not that big of a deal and that a misdemeanor charge is more than adequate. I guessing 10 minutes until he posts.

-Hawkeye-
 
He should of brought it to Leechstate Taxidermy, he would of gotten away with it.


No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura chancho sucio.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-16 AT 06:00PM (MST)[p]It sure didn't take long to nail his sorry butt and I hope he gets a huge fine and costs along with at least 10 years license revocation in all the Wildlife Compact Violator states. It would also not break my heart if they do file Lacey Act violations under that Federal Act because it sounds as if he took it to a Utah taxidermist to lessen the chance of being found that he had poached it. The only thing I question right now is what carcass tag he had on it and if the taxidermist had any idea what was going on. If that whitetail carcass tag was on the animal or even if he had an interstate game tag on it issued by the WY G&F it should have shown that it was for a whitetail buck, not a mulie, and it would seem that possibly the taxidermist might also face charges of some type.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-16 AT 06:01PM (MST)[p]I bet it will be more than simply a misdemeanor, especially being the way some fines have been coming out lately for poachers.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
This aswipe piece of chit works for the Sublette school district as a PE and coach. They should fire his arse. He should be held to a higher standard.
 
>This aswipe piece of chit works
>for the Sublette school district
>as a PE and coach.
>They should fire his arse.
>He should be held to
>a higher standard.


What a mentor he is for God's sake! That is absolutely sickening!
 
+1 BenHuntn.

Isn't the taxi that's mentioned in the article the one who is pretty highly talked about on this site? If it is, hopefully for his sake the poacher switched tags before taking in to him. I have a few critters I've been thinking of taking his way...maybe I'll see how this plays out.
 
Just to add a little more to this. He also had no pics of this deer on his facebook page, although he had many other pic of outdoor and hunting trips. hmmmmm very strange to me that he wouldn't post about a huge buck like this. something to hide you think? Also I have a number of friends that live in his home town and know him well. None of them even new anything about the buck! This guy is the worst of the worst! He masquerades around the community as one thing then when he thinks the coast is clear BAMMM! I hope he fries and looses his job in the school district!!
 
Read DNA Positive Mule Deer! I may be blind, but I see zero characteristics of any Whitetail genes and I have seen a few Hybrid/cross here in Eastern Colorado..He just got busted and he knows it..If his damn eyes are that bad he should never get a tag or have a gun!!! April 11th we should get the sentence.
 
The facts are all in and no more heresay...sorry I defended the guy....he's in BIG BIG trouble...
 
SO what is he charged with? Does anyone know?

If the Utah taxidermist had the filled out resource document he is probably in the clear.

The videos or irrelevant to the case which by the way I watched and re-watched and I can't tell with certainty that its that buck. What got this guy is TWO dead muleys and one muley tag and not meeting the genetic standard for a hybrid set forth by their DNR.

Now Topgun you are going to get to see what I meant by the other stuff didn't matter. The poor dumb fella has just started his ride.
 
So...using tri's logic, if I had a dead elk and dead mule deer with one mule deer tag could I say the elk simply didn't meet the DWR genetic requirement for a mule deer and gloss over the poaching aspect? Just think of al those cross-bead grouse, turkey, squirrel, etc. Now it's not poaching just an animal that does not meet the genetic requirements. Who knew?
 
I saw a bison/goat/bighorn/elk hybrid the other day. Guess I'm good to get a cow elk permit this year, shoot my cow, then out of season go shoot a goat, a bighorn, and a bison. I'll take them all to Texas to get taxidermy work done. Ill be free and clear!
 
I hope the Troll is a better taxidermist than he is on the net spouting all his baloney when it comes to criminal cases. According to him all the preliminary stuff doesn't mean squat now, LOL! Nope, the people that saw the deer alive and that have the pictures and video that contacted the G&F about possible criminal actions by the guy and led to the G&F getting a warrant when it was found that the guy had killed two mule deer bucks in one calendar year doesn't come into play at all! It may or may not come out as to what tag(s) the guy had with the head/cape when he took it across state lines to the Utah taxidermist. However, I would bet the fact that a possible Lacey Act violation will get his attention before its' all over and with enough public outcry it's possible he could be prosecuted under that Act as well. Let's just wait until the case is completed and hope he get the book thrown at him. I also would hope that if he doesn't lose his job that he at least loses his coaching responsibilities because we don't need our kids being mentored by someone like that! Now the Troll will probably come back and say just because the guy got caught poaching doesn't mean he's not the greatest guy on the planet!
 
I really don't understand all the silly snide coments about hybrids????

Flopgun,

Like I stated to you before and you were clueless to know what I was talking about until you read the article, what these folks say about what they saw is damn near meaningless now. If you have a man who confessed to shooting two mule deer in one state while only being granted one mule deer tag, the state has shown no hybridization through genetic test, and YOU KNOW HE CROSSED A STATELINE WITH IT ONCE AND HAD INTENT TO DO IT A SECOND TIME, why in the world would you care about dragging those "witnesses" into court and risk putting any mud in the water? You would have to be the dumbest prosecutor on the planet.
 
>I really don't understand all the
>silly snide coments about hybrids????
>
>
>Flopgun,
>
>Like I stated to you before
>and you were clueless to
>know what I was talking
>about until you read the
>article, what these folks say
>about what they saw is
>damn near meaningless now.
>If you have a man
>who confessed to shooting two
>mule deer in one state
>while only being granted one
>mule deer tag, the state
>has shown no hybridization through
>genetic test, and YOU KNOW
>HE CROSSED A STATELINE WITH
>IT ONCE AND HAD INTENT
>TO DO IT A SECOND
>TIME, why in the world
>would you care about dragging
>those "witnesses" into court and
>risk putting any mud in
>the water? You would have
>to be the dumbest prosecutor
>on the planet.


Nowhere have I or anyone else said any of the "witnesses" were going to be called into court now that the guy has been nailed. What was said oh one of little reading comprehension is that the people's photos and video showing the animal was a mule deer and their statements that the buck was alive more than a month after the mule deer season closed when they were taken was what started the investigation. Those allegations, along with the fact that the G&F GW knew the guy had already used his mule deer general tag on another big buck in velvet, got things going. The alleged poached buck was then found at the Expo and that led to a warrant and seizure of the head that was then sent to the G&F Lab to show it wasn't a hybrid. That appears to have been necessary after the guy came up with that goofy reason as to why he shot and tagged it with the late season whitetail tag and to rule that possibility out if the case did proceed to a trial in court. Everything I just mentioned would be used in court if the guy entered a not guilty plea and it ended up going to trial. Now all that will probably be in a written file that will be part of the court record when the case is completed. That will on 4/11 since it appears he has already entered a guilty plea in a preliminary hearing/arraignment that was not mentioned in the article.
 
Tri said: "I really don't understand all the silly snide coments about hybrids????"

Something went over your head? That's weird...

And I agree with Tri that only a stupid prosecutor would put evidence on at a trial when the suspect has confessed. You know, when someone confesses to driving drunk, only the dumbest prosecutor in the world would put evidence of his BAC from the breath or blood test on the record, or the officer's observations on FSTs. All that evidence would be really, really stupid to use as evidence in a trial. Just go off the confession!

Said no prosecutor ever. Back to the little boys' sandbox, Tri. Go to a made up dinner with 4 fake attorneys again and let us know what they think!

PS- This case will not go to trial, so it's a moot point.
 
Don't you love it when someone thinks stating what you told him weeks before is now somehow his idea and what he believed all along.

But I really like this worded gem.

"Those allegations, along with the fact that the G&F GW knew the guy had already used his mule deer general tag on another big buck in velvet, got things going."

Those allegations made suspicion only. The fact that the guy had already used his mule deer tag on a different deer walked him down the plank.

Why would a prosecutor who knows he has a guy on two felony charges EVER drag in some person to argue over whether they saw the deer after the season????? I want you Topgun to answer to that. It is completely unnecessary, illogical, and risky. That's like having a loaded pistol pointed at him and then deciding you can take out five bullets and everyone plays Russian roulette.
 
The misdemeanors won't but there is a chance the Lacey act violations might go to trial. Those are separate courts and charges. If the feds go for lacey act X 2 he may fight it because its brutal what the punishment can be. Not saying he would win. Most of the people I know who get charged with a Lacey violation fight it. They usually get nailed anyway.
 
>Don't you love it when someone
>thinks stating what you told
>him weeks before is now
>somehow his idea and what
>he believed all along.
>
>But I really like this worded
>gem.
>
> "Those allegations, along with the
>fact that the G&F GW
>knew the guy had already
>used his mule deer general
>tag on another big buck
>in velvet, got things going."
>
>
>Those allegations made suspicion only.
>The fact that the guy
>had already used his mule
>deer tag on a different
>deer walked him down the
>plank.
>
>Why would a prosecutor who knows
>he has a guy on
>two felony charges EVER drag
>in some person to argue
>over whether they saw the
>deer after the season?????
>I want you Topgun to
>answer to that.
>It is completely unnecessary, illogical,
>and risky. That's like having
>a loaded pistol pointed at
>him and then deciding you
>can take out five bullets
>and everyone plays Russian roulette.
>

Now after reading what you just posted in response to my "by the numbers" "dumbing it down for you" shows that you have no damn reading comprehension at all!!! Go sniff some more glue and leave the criminal cases to people that have a clue and it ain't you Richard!
 
>The misdemeanors won't but there is
>a chance the Lacey act
>violations might go to trial.
> Those are separate courts
>and charges. If the
>feds go for lacey act
>X 2 he may fight
>it because its brutal what
>the punishment can be.
>Not saying he would win.
> Most of the people
>I know who get charged
>with a Lacey violation fight
>it. They usually get
>nailed anyway.


I hope they do file Lacey Act violations against the jackass because it's about as close to a slam dunk case as there is if they did and he were to enter a not guilty plea. The guy took the head/cape across state lines himself and the paperwork at the taxidermist shop he took it to for mounting, along with testimony from the taxidermist would prove that. With pictures and testimony that the deer was at the Expo along with what is probably paperwork to show that it was entered there as an exhibit would just be more nails in the coffin.
 
FLopgun,

thank you for restating what I told you weeks ago. It shows I can teach you a few things. It doesn't matter if you resent it.
 
>FLopgun,
>
>thank you for restating what I
>told you weeks ago.
>It shows I can teach
>you a few things.
>It doesn't matter if you
>resent it.

Nice try Troll, LOL! I think if you will go back and read what was stated weeks ago you'll find that it wasn't you that told me or anyone else anything but a bunch of BS. Now I'll just be back to: "Don't feed the Troll" posts since you have proven again to twist everything and as someone said earlier when it's all over you talk like you're the winner when it couldn't be further from the truth! What a loser that just keeps making a fool of himself!
 

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