DOW Increases Buck Licenses in NW Co

cjoutfit · May 4, 2016

Colorado DOW is proposing an increase of 50-75 additional buck licenses for units 3,301,4,441,11,12,211 for all rifle hunt codes.
Given the above normal winter mortality on all mule deer and age classes of deer in the Northwest do you agree with the increase?

Populations are still well below objectives and even objectives have changed over the years. The paper data would indicate that there is a 35-40 buck per doe ratio in these areas, is that unreasonable to have a higher buck/doe ratio to allow an increase in harvest with an already low deer population? Field observations do not indicate the same numbers as paper data would suggest.

What say you?

jcmuleys · May 5, 2016

I don't agree with the increase in tags. They are purposing the same thing in unit 53. Adding 45 tags a 11% increase on year when they know the majority of the winter mortality happened after their count. The count is a joke anyway but thats a whole other issue. Its not about management its someone sitting at the head of the table saying we need to increase revenue this year where can we make some money. Just my opinion obviously they tell me I don't know anything.
JC

elks96 · May 5, 2016

Chris,

I have already voiced my concern. It makes no sense at all. When I contacted the regional director, I got the run around about how the DAU objective buck to doe ratio is lower than current counts and some how we need to kill the surplus bucks.

In the same breath they admit that we lost nearly 100% of the fawns this year and a significant number more adult deer. But because the bucks faired a little better than the Doe and fawns the ratio is now higher so we should kill more bucks.

This despite the fact that there are not more bucks just a higher percent.

It pisses me off as we were really just starting to see some improvement in deer numbers and specifically in buck quality. We were just starting to see where a guy could go out and expect to see a decent 24" 4x4 and think, I bet I can do better... Between the winter kill this year and now the increased buck harvest we will be back to "I hunted all season and shot the biggest 3 point I could find..."

I believe the commission meeting is next week? I might have to take the day off in order to express my displeasure.

Better yet they are claiming that despite the harsh winter your deer herds up north are still significantly over objective....

here is a link to my rant earlier....

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID32/4587.html

elks96 · May 5, 2016

Is there any real hope that we can stop the increase or will the commission just do what the CPW wants?

Elkduds · May 5, 2016

I just emailed this to commissioners:

Writing to strenuously object to any increase in big game license allocations for NW CO, as proposed. Heavy winterkill cannot and should not be addressed by increasing license #s, regardless of gender ratios. Even if you disregard the self-evident response to this winterkill, which would be to decrease tag #s; at least leave them unchanged so we can avoid a repeat of the deer herd decimation that followed 2008 winter.

Contact info here: http://cpw.state.co.us/aboutus/Pages/CommissionMembers.aspx

pymulies · May 5, 2016

elks96 and I have already had a discussion on this also. On the other side of the state line in Wyoming they are saying that they have too many does......and are releasing 250 doe tags (had proposed 500).
Explain that to me. How does the state line separate two populations that have one with too many does and the other one with too many bucks?
Once that is clear tell me how this is the only place in the entire west that is saying they have too many mule deer.

pymulies

cjoutfit · May 5, 2016

Thank you guys,

Some more fascinating data:

In 2013 the data showed there was an estimated population of 28,370 deer in units 3,301,4,441,5,14,214 and 10% below population objectives.

Now in 2016, after an above average winter and mortality the population estimate is 47,180 and 10% over population objectives!

Nothing short of miraculous!

That would have to be the greatest mule deer recovery in history without doing anything.

There is no such thing as over population objectives - especially when we do not have over the counter tags for these areas like we used to have.

The models are only as good as the data entered into it, that could also be influenced by motives, agendas, politics, etc...
Observational evidence doesn't line up with the data numbers.

theox · May 5, 2016

OH don't worry Utah is doing the same thing just as the herds are doing great they jack up tag numbers. 4000 more state wide
Drives me nuts!

tailchasers · May 6, 2016

With the down turn in the local economies do you think this might be one means the state has to try and stimulate? More tags equals more revenue which in these parts revenue is in dire need.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

elks96 · May 6, 2016

>With the down turn in the
>local economies do you think
>this might be one means
>the state has to try
>and stimulate? More tags equals
>more revenue which in these
>parts revenue is in dire
>need.
>
>"Courage is being scared to death
>but
>saddling up anyway."

Nah! It is only for the CPW gain if anything! The state offers unlimited elk Orc licenses and if they wanted to increase hunters for economy they would ride that horse! It actually makes no sense why we would all the sudden have these excess bucks running around! They either intentionally or accidently screwed up the counts!

elks96 · May 12, 2016

Well I wrote the commission about tag increase in the NW. In a lengthy response, they explained that even though the total deer numbers are low, we have higher buck to doe ratios. They are hiding behind the ratios in order to increase bucks tags while in the same breath admitting that doe and fawn survival rates are struggling.

No where in there did they say that we have more bucks than last year (except in 3, 301, 4 and 5) but that since the ratios are higher we can afford to kill more bucks.

Funny I thought Common Core Math was a new things! Little did I know that our state employees we well versed in the math.

Sadly a repeat of 07/08 is on the way. In 2 years we will see almost no decent bucks, hunters will get pissed about the quality of hunts and then they will cut tags way back. Why can they not just lets a little quality slide while our numbers are low.