What the deal with California habitat?

[BeDawg]

Just got done looking at Google earth of California and it looks like the place is teaming with mule deer habitat from top to bottom. As I have always heard of how little mule deer opportunity this liberal state has, well what is the deal? Too many hunters? Too hard to get a tag? Too many predators? Too much development? The habitat is not and never was there? Was it loaded with deer 100 years ago? Or Californians are tight lipped and have plenty of deer ops.

 

[ElmerFudd]

There isn't that much of CA that has the Rocky Mountain subspecies and just due to simple genetics, the other mule deer subspecies just don't grow antlers that will be considered trophy quality by Rocky Mountain mule deer standards. You have to judge them for what they are. There are only a few CA bucks in the all time mule deer records ever, so it isn't a recent thing.

The migratory Sierra deer herds have been hurt badly by development of winter range and habitat changing. no doubt about that. Two buck limits with virtually unlimited tags in the D zones... Early seasons... There are other issues.

 

[saddlesorerider]

They stopped mountain lion hunting years ago and treat them like pets. You can't legally shoot one in another state and bring it back to CA. They just stopped bear hunting with dogs. The coyotes are thicker than ticks and run around on the horse trails and streets in my area killing dogs and cats. I'm East of LA and they give out 3000 deer tags in this zone and shoot anything with twigs on their heads.
The state will go all non lead by 2019 for all wildlife. Don't shoot a rattlesnake with your 22 or shotgun.
Right now we have the bullet button so if your AR for coyote hunting has it you are legal. There is a bill going thu state legislature that would make them illegal with a removable mag or mandatory registration all detachable mag rifles. Oh and this bill will make you have a card to purchase and posses ammo and no on line sales of ammo.
Less than 1% of the population hunts in this state but they are buying guns like crazy.
Real hunters give up and don't go out and kill the predators. And now we have wolves and probably Hillary.

 

[Soj51hopeful]

Like most other western states lack of fires choked out deer browse. Disease in the 80s and 90s wiped out high country heards and like the two previous posts, winter range development and predator numbers keep them down. My dad always talks about how good the hunting was in the 50s - early 80's. Not just little black tales but nice size Muley's or a cross.

 

[Wiszard]

Tons of predators...we have mountain lions coming into our neighborhoods that border grazing land. They prey on the deer that eat the roses in the neighborhood. We were shocked when we flew back from Vegas a month ago and on the runway, we saw a group of 5 coyotes.
Hunters that will shoot just about anything is a big problem. I think there is a lot of "family" hunting as well. If the group has 5 tags, they'll have 20 people trying to fill those 5 tags. Success rates don't reflect that because there are so many damn tags given out. I haven't hunted my area in years because its a joke and I don't have private land to hunt. I'm going to get a tag this year and really put the time in to make is a successful hunt. I don't expect to fill my tag...if I do, it's a bonus. I'll work hard to fill it though.
I wouldn't waste the $$ applying for any tags here if I was a NR.

Steve

Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.

 

[deerslayer88]

Tree hugger's are the main problem in California.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

 

[bullskin]

Too many problems to list. There are more hunters than mule deer tags. Plenty of black tailed deer on the coast, but not many muleys, and so those who hunt in these units must wait a long time for tags. Roadways kill a lot of fawns during the early summer and adults during the fall. Habitat is lost to development and to forestry practices intended to grow trees rather than wildlife. It seems that some companies are hell-bent on destroying all oak and replacing them with even-aged stands of pine. And party hunting/poaching. Plus, a whole lot of hunters who do nothing but drive the roads and wonder where the deer are. It isn't like it used to be, but most guys who learn an area and know how to hunt it will still take deer off public lands more often than not.

 

[marburg]

Unmanaged predators. Deer are treated like food for top of the food chain predators in California. That and decades of fire suppression, are the two main culprits. The state has the potential, look at the Burney buck.....just poor management by fish and game who allows the enviro-nazi fringe to do whatever they want. California is their little utopian petri-dish where they experiment with off the wall ideas and see what happens.

 

[HalfAce]

+1 to what Marburg said. Fire Suppression and predator mismanagement.

 

[sageadvice]

BeDawg asked, "well what is the deal? Too many hunters? Too hard to get a tag? Too many predators? Too much development? The habitat is not and never was there? Was it loaded with deer 100 years ago? Or Californians are tight lipped and have plenty of deer ops."


Lot of question there but i'll give my $.02 to go along with the others. In my youth, anybody could hunt just about anywhere in the State they wanted with their second deer tag. A guy could shoot two deer a year, every year, and one could be a darn good muley hunt if he chose to go where they do live.

Now days, we are all still allowed 2 deer tags per hunter and one of those tags can be used to apply for limited entry hunts in Muley country. Similar to other States, if one doesn't draw a limited hunt X zone or special hunt, he will accrue a point that is cumulative. There are still several areas within Cali's best habitats, that there are max point holders patiently waiting and there are other areas that take much less down to near zero points with the hunting to naturally not as "good" but one can make of them hunts as he desires as all the LE units hold good bucks.

You answered a lot of your own questions, the habitat is not what it once was but there is still plenty of excellent habitat, many huge tracts just lacking of or missing deer numbers that once may have been near full capacity. Liberal Political influence has made this a predator friendly state yet we still pretty much hunt as we always have. We also had back to back severe winters years ago that with the predator situation as it is, the Mule Deer numbers have never fully recovered.

As for the regular guy's opportunity to hunt Blacktail or Blacktail-Muley Cross bucks, one can hunt them every year with over the counter tags. With that tag in his pocket, one can also apply for the LE Muley tags. There are at least 5 decent LE Muley hunts that i can/should draw this year with my 4 points, next year for sure. That's not a long wait but they're not the very best areas either. I choose to hunt local every year and maybe one more Wy trip. It ain't yet, near as bad as it could be.

With State wide over the counter Bear, Hog, and Turkey tags to go along with everything else, plenty of opportunity.


Joey

Keep your slimy Paws Off My, Yours, Our,.. Public Land!!!