General Season Ranking
- Thread starter Maxxy
- Start date
Don't tell everyone, hope they stay north.
I probably would rank them the same with Zion and Pine valley switched if we include if there is accessible land to hunt without owning land or paying to tresspass. Pine valley offers ample amount of land to hike in and hide bucks.
I typically hunt PV and put in for Zion archery (second choice) if I do not have any points.
Nice bucks on thousands but life timers take majority of the tags and the area is small. Very few hunters hunt in the mountain and alot target bucks coming in to agriculture. I cow elk hunt there late Nov and there are some nice bucks but last I looked it 4 to 5 years to draw a gun tag.
I probably would rank them the same with Zion and Pine valley switched if we include if there is accessible land to hunt without owning land or paying to tresspass. Pine valley offers ample amount of land to hike in and hide bucks.
I typically hunt PV and put in for Zion archery (second choice) if I do not have any points.
Nice bucks on thousands but life timers take majority of the tags and the area is small. Very few hunters hunt in the mountain and alot target bucks coming in to agriculture. I cow elk hunt there late Nov and there are some nice bucks but last I looked it 4 to 5 years to draw a gun tag.
backcountrymuleys
Member
- Messages
- 15
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-16 AT 12:54PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-16 AT 12:47?PM (MST)
This is a good question. I think most units hold big bucks just some units are much easier to find them in than others. Most of the northern units hold mature deer but there is so much scrub oak they disappear into it once archery season is over and you generally wont see them again until the rut. This at least seems to be the case on the unit I hunt. I am willing to bet the southern units are a little easier to find mature bucks on. I wont speculate which unit is best down there but I am willing to bet if you look for the ones that take a few points to draw that will be a good indication of trophy quality. for up north here is my ranking
1. 17A Wasatch West
2. 4/5/6
3. Box Elder
4. Cache
5. Ogden
This is a good question. I think most units hold big bucks just some units are much easier to find them in than others. Most of the northern units hold mature deer but there is so much scrub oak they disappear into it once archery season is over and you generally wont see them again until the rut. This at least seems to be the case on the unit I hunt. I am willing to bet the southern units are a little easier to find mature bucks on. I wont speculate which unit is best down there but I am willing to bet if you look for the ones that take a few points to draw that will be a good indication of trophy quality. for up north here is my ranking
1. 17A Wasatch West
2. 4/5/6
3. Box Elder
4. Cache
5. Ogden
Maxxy
Active Member
- Messages
- 211
>And with that said I believe
>every unit in Utah has
>a shoot at 180" so
>if you just want a
>small chance, hunt a unit
>that you know or can
>scout a lot.
Elktaker, I would venture to say the odds of taking a 180" buck on General have to be close to 1/2%??? Maybe less? Which again, is still a chance. Agree on those odds?
>every unit in Utah has
>a shoot at 180" so
>if you just want a
>small chance, hunt a unit
>that you know or can
>scout a lot.
Elktaker, I would venture to say the odds of taking a 180" buck on General have to be close to 1/2%??? Maybe less? Which again, is still a chance. Agree on those odds?
The best general unit is the one you know the best and can spend the most time on before and during the hunt. Sure Zion and Pine Valley can be good, but they also have a lot of attention and some years they struggle (usually weather dependent). I have seen monsters come off almost ever unit on occasion.
180 is a lofty general session goal, doable, but very difficult for most people to achieve.
I'm not a fan of ranking units. I am a fan of hunting hard and getting lucky. And you can do those two things on any unit.
Dillon
www.dillonhoyt.com
180 is a lofty general session goal, doable, but very difficult for most people to achieve.
I'm not a fan of ranking units. I am a fan of hunting hard and getting lucky. And you can do those two things on any unit.
Dillon
www.dillonhoyt.com
AspenAdventures
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,889
I have hunted the Zion unit for the past 4 years. I am not impressed. Here is why:
1. Too many roads...on top...in the Virgin River...in between...in the midddle...on the side....holy moly.
2. No good bucks taken by our family in 4 years.
3. This year I passed up 18 2 points in 3.5 days of hunting. Largest buck seen was 20" 3point.
4. People people people...tons of people everywhere....always. We saw guys in tree stands. Guys hunting over apple piles. Guys in bunkers built out of sand bags with cots and firepits. SOOoooo many people.
5. Migration...sure its neato to sit and watch deer run by.....most do it at night when you cant see them. Also, you can not scout this unit. It is like hunting white tail deer. Sit and hope to heaven something is coming your way.
No thanks. I am done. My boy wounded...never recovered...this fall a great buck just above our house in Northern Utah. So. I would rather stay north...scout the bucks....have ZERO roads in our area...spend the hunt above 9000 ft in the spruces instead of picking cactus out of my butt and sweating on my foam pad all night. You can have the Zion unit back. I hunted it...buried poop in it...and that was about all it was worth.
Went in a "bad" unit in Idaho and hunted for a few days this fall....over 50 bucks shot by the road...took a 25" heavy dark racked mulie a few miles from the road. No other hunters in the area to bug me or ruin a stalk. Gonna scout it next year....deer dont migraate there until snow...unlike Zion where they head out quick.
You can have your Zion unit....let me know an address so I can send tweezers to pick cactus out of your rear with while you sit in one spot all week praying a buck comes out in front of you...and then you call it hunting....no hunting involved in sitting on your butt.....lame hunt.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
1. Too many roads...on top...in the Virgin River...in between...in the midddle...on the side....holy moly.
2. No good bucks taken by our family in 4 years.
3. This year I passed up 18 2 points in 3.5 days of hunting. Largest buck seen was 20" 3point.
4. People people people...tons of people everywhere....always. We saw guys in tree stands. Guys hunting over apple piles. Guys in bunkers built out of sand bags with cots and firepits. SOOoooo many people.
5. Migration...sure its neato to sit and watch deer run by.....most do it at night when you cant see them. Also, you can not scout this unit. It is like hunting white tail deer. Sit and hope to heaven something is coming your way.
No thanks. I am done. My boy wounded...never recovered...this fall a great buck just above our house in Northern Utah. So. I would rather stay north...scout the bucks....have ZERO roads in our area...spend the hunt above 9000 ft in the spruces instead of picking cactus out of my butt and sweating on my foam pad all night. You can have the Zion unit back. I hunted it...buried poop in it...and that was about all it was worth.
Went in a "bad" unit in Idaho and hunted for a few days this fall....over 50 bucks shot by the road...took a 25" heavy dark racked mulie a few miles from the road. No other hunters in the area to bug me or ruin a stalk. Gonna scout it next year....deer dont migraate there until snow...unlike Zion where they head out quick.
You can have your Zion unit....let me know an address so I can send tweezers to pick cactus out of your rear with while you sit in one spot all week praying a buck comes out in front of you...and then you call it hunting....no hunting involved in sitting on your butt.....lame hunt.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
fin little
Active Member
- Messages
- 763
LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-16 AT 05:48PM (MST)[p]Thanks Aspen we'll gladly take our Zion unit.
Maxxy
Active Member
- Messages
- 211
Just as a note, I am not asking this so I can put in on the unit, I was just purely curious as to the state of different units and if a few are technically producing bigger and more bucks than others. Thought it was be interesting to get statewide opinion. Thanks!
>>And with that said I believe
>>every unit in Utah has
>>a shoot at 180" so
>>if you just want a
>>small chance, hunt a unit
>>that you know or can
>>scout a lot.
>
>
>Elktaker, I would venture to say
>the odds of taking a
>180" buck on General have
>to be close to 1/2%???
>Maybe less? Which again, is
>still a chance. Agree on
>those odds?
I think taking 1/2% probably pretty close for overall. But take out half the hunters that shoot the first thing that's legal and the majority that won't leave the road then you have like 25% of those who are taking most of the 180"+ bucks.
So with that math looks more like 2%. Then add in scouting and hiking your butt off then you can greatly increase your odds.
I would say that 1/2 of the guys shooting 180" bucks on general tags are the same guys every few tags they get.
Just this year I personal saw 9 bucks that I score 170 to 190" between the Zion and Pine valley unit on public land open to hunting. I saw one on the Panguitch unit that was in an area to legally hunt. I rank Panguitch pretty low on the trophy scale and did not spend too much time looking for deer there. Most were during the open archery season because they must have know I had the muzzy tag.
With that said I did not locate one buck during my season over 160" and the last day I popped a old big 2x2 (who was typically with a 180" deer on my list) to test out my long range muzzleloader and take him out of the gene pool.
Hoping the odds are better than 2% in my future. I think the work you put in can sway it quite a bit.
Hard work and knowing the area is how people get big deer. I am at zero % for Utah mule deer over 180" but I have had one tag (i was riding the thousand lake train and bailed this year)
And he wants a small chance and not success ;-)
>>every unit in Utah has
>>a shoot at 180" so
>>if you just want a
>>small chance, hunt a unit
>>that you know or can
>>scout a lot.
>
>
>Elktaker, I would venture to say
>the odds of taking a
>180" buck on General have
>to be close to 1/2%???
>Maybe less? Which again, is
>still a chance. Agree on
>those odds?
I think taking 1/2% probably pretty close for overall. But take out half the hunters that shoot the first thing that's legal and the majority that won't leave the road then you have like 25% of those who are taking most of the 180"+ bucks.
So with that math looks more like 2%. Then add in scouting and hiking your butt off then you can greatly increase your odds.
I would say that 1/2 of the guys shooting 180" bucks on general tags are the same guys every few tags they get.
Just this year I personal saw 9 bucks that I score 170 to 190" between the Zion and Pine valley unit on public land open to hunting. I saw one on the Panguitch unit that was in an area to legally hunt. I rank Panguitch pretty low on the trophy scale and did not spend too much time looking for deer there. Most were during the open archery season because they must have know I had the muzzy tag.
With that said I did not locate one buck during my season over 160" and the last day I popped a old big 2x2 (who was typically with a 180" deer on my list) to test out my long range muzzleloader and take him out of the gene pool.
Hoping the odds are better than 2% in my future. I think the work you put in can sway it quite a bit.
Hard work and knowing the area is how people get big deer. I am at zero % for Utah mule deer over 180" but I have had one tag (i was riding the thousand lake train and bailed this year)
And he wants a small chance and not success ;-)
>I have hunted the Zion unit
>for the past 4 years.
> I am not
>impressed. Here is why:
>
>
>1. Too many roads...on top...in
>the Virgin River...in between...in the
>midddle...on the side....holy moly.
>2. No good bucks taken
>by our family in 4
>years.
>3. This year I passed
>up 18 2 points in
>3.5 days of hunting.
>Largest buck seen was 20"
>3point.
>4. People people people...tons of
>people everywhere....always. We
>saw guys in tree stands.
> Guys hunting over apple
>piles. Guys in bunkers
>built out of sand bags
>with cots and firepits.
> SOOoooo many people.
>5. Migration...sure its neato to
>sit and watch deer run
>by.....most do it at night
>when you cant see them.
> Also, you can not
>scout this unit. It
>is like hunting white tail
>deer. Sit and hope
>to heaven something is coming
>your way.
>
>No thanks. I am done.
> My boy wounded...never recovered...this
>fall a great buck just
>above our house in Northern
>Utah. So.
> I would rather stay
>north...scout the bucks....have ZERO roads
>in our area...spend the hunt
>above 9000 ft in the
>spruces instead of picking cactus
>out of my butt and
>sweating on my foam pad
>all night. You
>can have the Zion unit
>back. I hunted
>it...buried poop in it...and that
>was about all it was
>worth.
>
>Went in a "bad" unit in
>Idaho and hunted for a
>few days this fall....over 50
>bucks shot by the road...took
>a 25" heavy dark racked
>mulie a few miles from
>the road. No
>other hunters in the area
>to bug me or ruin
>a stalk. Gonna scout
>it next year....deer dont migraate
>there until snow...unlike Zion where
>they head out quick.
>
>You can have your Zion unit....let
>me know an address so
>I can send tweezers to
>pick cactus out of your
>rear with while you sit
>in one spot all week
>praying a buck comes out
>in front of you...and then
>you call it hunting....no hunting
>involved in sitting on your
>butt.....lame hunt.
>
>"The penalty good men pay for
>indifference to public affairs is
>to be ruled by evil
>men." - Plato
Zion is not a very huntable unit with the private issue and the hunters per square mile of public land legal to hunt is huge (might be the one of the worse per sq mile). I would never hunt low on the Zion unit and only before the any weapons elk hunt which leaves just archery. Unless you had a large amount of snow drop before the gun season, you will not be seeing the true migration of big bucks. Big bucks are not moving down that early thats why they are big.
I was at 15 yards with this one during archery with bow in hand this year but I only had a elk tag. A 3 mile hike to where he was and i had him regularly on one of my elk cameras. Lacking brow tines though should make it into the 170's with those deep fork.
Hunting a unit that you live near or can scout a lot is much easier as you discovered. I spent 20+ days scouting for elk in the zion unit just this summer and I have GIS ed most of the area that I hunt/plan too. Last fall, I scouted during the rifle elk and rifle deer hunt just to see where pressure was placed by other hunters. Glad I did!
Point is all general units are holding 180" deer finding them and hunting them is the challenge and its much easier if you can scout all summer which you have discovered.
>for the past 4 years.
> I am not
>impressed. Here is why:
>
>
>1. Too many roads...on top...in
>the Virgin River...in between...in the
>midddle...on the side....holy moly.
>2. No good bucks taken
>by our family in 4
>years.
>3. This year I passed
>up 18 2 points in
>3.5 days of hunting.
>Largest buck seen was 20"
>3point.
>4. People people people...tons of
>people everywhere....always. We
>saw guys in tree stands.
> Guys hunting over apple
>piles. Guys in bunkers
>built out of sand bags
>with cots and firepits.
> SOOoooo many people.
>5. Migration...sure its neato to
>sit and watch deer run
>by.....most do it at night
>when you cant see them.
> Also, you can not
>scout this unit. It
>is like hunting white tail
>deer. Sit and hope
>to heaven something is coming
>your way.
>
>No thanks. I am done.
> My boy wounded...never recovered...this
>fall a great buck just
>above our house in Northern
>Utah. So.
> I would rather stay
>north...scout the bucks....have ZERO roads
>in our area...spend the hunt
>above 9000 ft in the
>spruces instead of picking cactus
>out of my butt and
>sweating on my foam pad
>all night. You
>can have the Zion unit
>back. I hunted
>it...buried poop in it...and that
>was about all it was
>worth.
>
>Went in a "bad" unit in
>Idaho and hunted for a
>few days this fall....over 50
>bucks shot by the road...took
>a 25" heavy dark racked
>mulie a few miles from
>the road. No
>other hunters in the area
>to bug me or ruin
>a stalk. Gonna scout
>it next year....deer dont migraate
>there until snow...unlike Zion where
>they head out quick.
>
>You can have your Zion unit....let
>me know an address so
>I can send tweezers to
>pick cactus out of your
>rear with while you sit
>in one spot all week
>praying a buck comes out
>in front of you...and then
>you call it hunting....no hunting
>involved in sitting on your
>butt.....lame hunt.
>
>"The penalty good men pay for
>indifference to public affairs is
>to be ruled by evil
>men." - Plato
Zion is not a very huntable unit with the private issue and the hunters per square mile of public land legal to hunt is huge (might be the one of the worse per sq mile). I would never hunt low on the Zion unit and only before the any weapons elk hunt which leaves just archery. Unless you had a large amount of snow drop before the gun season, you will not be seeing the true migration of big bucks. Big bucks are not moving down that early thats why they are big.
I was at 15 yards with this one during archery with bow in hand this year but I only had a elk tag. A 3 mile hike to where he was and i had him regularly on one of my elk cameras. Lacking brow tines though should make it into the 170's with those deep fork.
Hunting a unit that you live near or can scout a lot is much easier as you discovered. I spent 20+ days scouting for elk in the zion unit just this summer and I have GIS ed most of the area that I hunt/plan too. Last fall, I scouted during the rifle elk and rifle deer hunt just to see where pressure was placed by other hunters. Glad I did!
Point is all general units are holding 180" deer finding them and hunting them is the challenge and its much easier if you can scout all summer which you have discovered.
LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-16 AT 11:47PM (MST)[p]>What does it take(general points) to
>draw the Pine Valley and
>Zion units as a NR?
>
>
>"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
pv
archery - normally no point
mz - 1 typically draws, maybe 0
gun - 2 typically draws, maybe with 1
zion
archery - normally no point
mz - normally no point
gun - 2 typically draws, maybe with 1
https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/2016/16_general_deer.pdf
Neither are easy hunts. Definitely if you cannot put in a lot of time scouting.
>draw the Pine Valley and
>Zion units as a NR?
>
>
>"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
pv
archery - normally no point
mz - 1 typically draws, maybe 0
gun - 2 typically draws, maybe with 1
zion
archery - normally no point
mz - normally no point
gun - 2 typically draws, maybe with 1
https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/2016/16_general_deer.pdf
Neither are easy hunts. Definitely if you cannot put in a lot of time scouting.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-16
>AT 01:15?PM (MST)
>
>In terms of seeing Bucks, What
>would be the top 5
>Utah general Units. Would those
>rankings change if you wanted
>a chance (even small chance)
>at a 180+ buck?
If the current proposal to change the preference point draws passes, we'll see the true trophy (and opportunity) rankings of general units in a few years.
>AT 01:15?PM (MST)
>
>In terms of seeing Bucks, What
>would be the top 5
>Utah general Units. Would those
>rankings change if you wanted
>a chance (even small chance)
>at a 180+ buck?
If the current proposal to change the preference point draws passes, we'll see the true trophy (and opportunity) rankings of general units in a few years.
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-16
>>AT 01:15?PM (MST)
>>
>>In terms of seeing Bucks, What
>>would be the top 5
>>Utah general Units. Would those
>>rankings change if you wanted
>>a chance (even small chance)
>>at a 180+ buck?
>
>If the current proposal to change
>the preference point draws passes,
>we'll see the true trophy
>(and opportunity) rankings of general
>units in a few years.
>
What is the new proposal or do you have a link? I heard the one that would make any tag take your points including 2nd choice on.
Thanks, could affect if I try to draw dedicated next year or wait which I am on the wall about.
>>AT 01:15?PM (MST)
>>
>>In terms of seeing Bucks, What
>>would be the top 5
>>Utah general Units. Would those
>>rankings change if you wanted
>>a chance (even small chance)
>>at a 180+ buck?
>
>If the current proposal to change
>the preference point draws passes,
>we'll see the true trophy
>(and opportunity) rankings of general
>units in a few years.
>
What is the new proposal or do you have a link? I heard the one that would make any tag take your points including 2nd choice on.
Thanks, could affect if I try to draw dedicated next year or wait which I am on the wall about.
