Boone and Crockett as a research tool

[Twoshooter]

Been doing some research and looking for some input. How many bucks that qualify for the record book are actually in the record book? And do you think that more or less people that have qualifying heads are entering them now, compared to say 10 years ago and will that trend continue? I am trying to get a feel for usefulness of the B and C book as a research tool.
Thanks for your input!

 

[ByeByeObamas]

I have an uncle that has a moose, dahl sheep, and other animals that wpuld be way up there and he will never put them in. The sheep is 44 inches i believe.....

 

[littlebighorn]

The real answer to your question is impossible to know. Some on here will say less people record their trophies and some will say more and no one really knows.
I would say this, the book can be a useful research tool because it identifies general ranges that have in the past produced good trophies. Thus good genes tend to reside there. But a great buck can turn up just about anywhere and depending on weather conditions, hunting pressure, etc. it may or may not be in an area regularly listed in the book.
I have hunted muleys all my life and after 4 decades of hunting I finally took one big enough to make the book. I listed it because it was an amazing buck and I was happy to be associated with it.

I'm guessing that most that don't get listed now days, are bucks that probably wouldn't quite make it anyway because of deductions or whatever.

Ah but that's the "sticky wicket. " Plenty of great bucks are killed that don't quite fit the book minimums but they are still great bucks! The book doesn't say anything about them for your research!

 

[toklat]

What he said. I personally know of at least three different individuals who have/ had bucks, both NT and T that would have made the book with room to spare. In fact all three were measured by certified B and C scorers and they still decided against getting them entered.
They just weren't into doing so!

 

[hossblur]

I think if you set the timeframe at last 10 yrs there is most likely more entered. With all the social media a guy might actually see what a b c buck looks like and enter it.

All time. No way. I have seen pics, as we all have, of our dads and grandpas with massive deer, and rarely did they even keep the horns, most ended up thrown in the field or maybe nailed to the barn.

Would be interesting to know how many world records were treated that way.

In sure none of my grandpas, great uncles, etc even knew what b c was.

But get a single strand of hair on the meat, that they cared about, LOUDLY.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

 

[2lumpy]

I agree with littlebighorn, no way to know. It would be mostly speculation to even offer an opinion, in my opiniion. ;-d

There's a statistic you might find research worthy. In 1983 I think it was, there were over 80,000 bucks killed in Utah. At about 2008 or 2008 the number of bucks killed in Utah had dropped to under 20,000. What percentage of the 80,000 where large enough to qualify for B&C in the 1980's vs the percentage of the 20,000 killed in the 2000/2016. Again, no way to know but you could compare numbers entered each year from 1975 thru 1985 and the numbers entered between 2006 thru 2016. Compare each western State individually then compare the average difference for all western States to get an over all western State average for those years when mule deer number peaked again the current populations/harvest numbers.

DC

 

[buckhorn]

When I lived in Idaho I heard about a big buck rack that was hanging in and old farmers house. Naturally I went to check it out and when the farmer showed it to me my jaw dropped to the floor. I asked him if it had ever been scored and he really didn't know what that meant. He let me measure it and it scored an amazing 243 inch net nontypical and a typical score of 197 net. He said he wasn?t interested in entering it in any record books and when I asked him if he would sell it he said no. So as far as I know it's still in that old farmhouse where no one hardly ever sees it.

 

[jims]

I really think the bucks that show up in B&C are a great research tool. Some counties may not have any B&C bucks listed and other counties have a pretty long list of B&C bucks. Some counties that had B&C bucks listed in the 50's and 60's hardly have any bucks listed in the 80's through today. I usually use the B&C books to pick up trends. One thing for certain it takes everything (genetics, mild winters, age, habitat, predators, nutrition, etc) to produce B&C bucks on a constant basis. The genetics and everything else may be there but if bucks aren't given 5 to 7+ years to survive the area likely won't produce many B&C bucks.

The Gunnison Basin here in Colo is a prime example. If you look close there actually weren't many B&C bucks posted in the B&C books from Gunnison until the early 2000's. The winter ranges in that part of Colo often have the toughest winters in the state. Around 10 years ago there was a stretch of around 8 years when gobs of B&C bucks were harvested in Gunnison County. About that time the CPW converted to draw only units in Colo plus the area had a long stretch of relatively mild winters. Since that time there have been back to back severe winters with deep snow (common to that area). B&C bucks from the Gunnison Basin have been pretty much non-existent ever since. The genetics have always been there but it takes 5 to 7+ years of ok winters or bucks don't reach the age to produce B&C antlers!

With all that said, B&C books are a great resource for trends and potential for any particular county of producing monstermuley bucks. If you intend on hunting a county that has never posted a B&C buck there is a great chance you will likely never see or have a chance of harvesting one! If you want to pull the chance for B&C in your favor you will hunt counties that produce B&C bucks on a consistent basis as many years as you can! It is really irrevalent whether every B&C buck that was shot is listed!

 

[Captain_coues]

I've never killed anything big enough for the books. My dad killed a buck that makes book but it's not entered. I tell myself that if I ever kill anything big enough, I'll get both entered at that time.

 

[Twoshooter]

Interesting you mentioned Gunnison. I started hunting it about 11 years ago right before the die off. I love the place but I cant seem to dig up deer numbers or size now compared to pre die off. The book entries for Gunnison have also been pretty flat since the die off and last winter didnt help any either.

The book does show trends. I will continue to use it as an aid. I love learning new areas and am always looking for that sleeper area that has been overlooked. With increased competition there seems to be less sleeper areas out there. My focus has been shifting more from chasing popular areas with lots of points to chasing bucks that I can hunt every year or two and still have faith that the genetics are there, just gotta find the age class or know the unit so that when the age class does come back I am in a position to capitalize on it. Hard to get all the stars to lineup on big bucks.

 

[joesikora]

2Lumpy. I really like your answer, deductive reasoning

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora

 

[jims]

Another thing not previously mentioned is what Eastman's call "TF bucks'. There are likely counties that produce super bucks but due to extra tines they have too many deductions to make B&C. The Eastern Plains of Colo is a prime example of this!

 

[Pcjr21]

IMHO I believe that there is a fast growing number of hunters who believe that social media is destroying the good in hunting. I have been meeting more and more hunters that are anti social media. Along with that, I think those same hunters will not be likely to enter animals in B&C for similar reasons. I have seen many bucks that are not in the books that could be in the books. I know of a California Mule deer from years ago that would be in the top end of the books that is hanging in a Bar on the Northern California coastal area.

I personally would enter a buck in B&C if I killed one. I had a argument with a friend about this same subject the other day. He is a trophy hunter, only kills good bucks, and he has killed some good ones. He will not even texted the pictures to his friends. He will show you the pic on his phone but does not want them to end up on social media or getting spread around. I don't understand his angle at all, we all know younger deer tast better and at times can be easy to kill. So why hunt for old big buck.

When you good to the store and buy good meat it's from a younger animal. In many cases, like with beef cattle if you want a good steak it going to be 18 months old. Less with sheep and pigs.

No one would go buy a chop off a 8 year old sheep!!!!! So why do some people pretend that they are not trophy hunters and only try to kill old animals??? If that same person believes that its The challenge they do it for, than grab a bow, you will get all the challenge you need!!!

 

[30Hart]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-18 AT 12:48PM (MST)[p]As some have said, great for trend analysis if you really dig in...there are some gems to be had if your quick to recognize and take advantage of them. Helped me put 2 of my 3 book animals in the book and helped a friend put another one in.

But as other's have said, way more bucks from regular hunters never get entered in them.

The key is to use the online database as you get your info faster than waiting till the Book comes out in print...by then everyone knows what's happening.