Giving up the goat!

[MartinHunter]

I am only 18 years old and have not drawn antelope 2 times since I was12. That is with three choices and four to five people in my part application! This is the second year I did not draw so I went out and bought an additional doe for Wyoming area 32. The game and fish announced last year as well as this year that area 32 is one of the nest in the state. We put in because of that news last year and drew. Let me tell you, that is the worst area in the state! I am know biologist but when we had to hunt a goat for a week when you can drive up the highway 1 miles and see a herd of 100, that is pretty bad. Anyway, I was doped into buying a doe for the area this year because I thought, were in Wyoming can you not find a doe antelope? Well, in three days of hunting the entire area (included all of the Access Yes crap) I am happy to report that I saw a total of 8 antelope in the best area of the state. I know for a fact that the game and fish are running this area for profit and not for the animals. They should close it entirely, but they need the money. Crap! For the price of a license, gas, bullets and processing (even if we do it ourselves) antelope hunting is becoming non economical for an 18 year old husband and father who hunts for food, not just for sport. I for one and my father for another will not be wasting our time and money on antelope to support a game and fish that manages for money, not for quality of the hunt.
Michael

 

[Elkcrzy1]

Well, where are the areas in wyoming that you can shoot two or three does or whatever the limit is? I haven't drawn an antelope in wyoming for many years and try every year. Why do they keep giving so many doe tags? Maybe you should try a quality area in colorado then you can go 6-7 years between tags. I guess I can wait don't know what else to do. Gary

 

[MartinHunter]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-03 AT 07:54PM (MST)[p]Yeah, area 32 you can by 2 additional does per person. Theywere trying to sell like 250 of them. I am not sure how many they actully sold, but I will check at the sporting goods store next time I am in. Alls I can think is man, whoever bought on of those got ripped off! I wish I could afford to hunt other states such as Colorado, but is really a matter of economics for me, plus it sounds like it is not any better. Oh well.
Michael

Why did I put this post in the elk forum? Guess I was not paying any attention. Stupid me.

 

[dakotakid]

You must not be living right, Ive had 5 antelope tags in 4 years, filled them all.

Mike

 

[huntin_fool]

Just me, but if all you are hunting for is meat why go after antelope? Not that great to eat and for the money you spend trying to get one you could buy more beef than there is on those little things. They are a ton of fun to hunt though and make good jerky for elk hunting season.
-Whit

 

[huntm2]

LM - NRA, NAHC, RMEF
Please tell me your secret for living right!!!! I too cannot draw tags like that. 9 years without a Wyoming tag and others draw almost every year -- who do you know or who do you b____ ?

 

[dakotakid]

I might let you borrow the dog, if you were in a bind you could use the pick-up, if you had a 17 inch goat in the scope and your gun jammed I'd loan you mine,,,secrets on geting tags...NEVER!!!!

Mike

 

[cmiddleton]

i'm a wyoming native and put in every year sence age 14 and have drawn three any goat tags thats one goat every 9 yrs. thought that only happens on moose and sheep don't get me wrong though in the early 80's i got to shoot 7 does in one area over the counter every year for about three years running just no bucks i have two mule deer mounts two elk and two whitetail who ever thought a stinking goat would be the last trophy animal i could get? i might die of old age first at this rate.

 

[MartinHunter]

Plus you will not have any money left in the pocket book for the family when you die Casey. At the rate the prices are going up to cope with inflation (yea right) only the rich man will be able to hunt a goat in Wyoming. Also judging by the herd size a trophy may be a 14"er by the next time I draw. Heck I have a half dozen of those on my dads fence.
Michael

 

[dakotakid]

Seven does over the counter every year for three years running and you now wonder why when you do go out goat hunting you dont see any? You shot more antelope in three years than most people will shoot in a lifetime.

Mike

 

[MartinHunter]

That's not the case. In Wyoming, with the lower antelope population there are still more of them then there are people. In the areas he is referring to the antelope population was healthy. The only reason it is not currently in those areas is because of recent development, not because of hunting. Plus in Wyoming each resident can shoot way more then seven does with over the counter additional if he were to travel to different areas. If the herd can sustain that amount of harvest then that is ok. However, currently in this area I do not believe it can stand any harvest. Like I said, in a state with more goats then people were else can you drive an entire area and not see a freaken? antelope?
Michael

 

[dakotakid]

Michael,

I respectfully disagree with you 100%. Just because the population of people in Wyoming is less than that of the antelope it doesnt mean that we should go out and kill 7 each per year, that is piss poor management and irresponsible hunting ethics. That is why when you drive out to area 32 you dont see goats anymore. And with all these "extra" tags available why on earth are you on here complaining about not getting to shoot a goat? Get out there and kill your seven and then in 5 years wonder where ALL the goats went.

Also you mentioned that in the area Casey was talking about the antelope population WAS healthy but due to developements is has declined, surely it wasnt over hunting so could you inform us what happened in these areas?

Mike

 

[MartinHunter]

In Eastern states the population of the Whitetail deer sometime exceeds the population of residents, and that is in small states with a whole hell of a lot of people. Many of those states allow for the harvesting of fare more then 1 animal. Why, if the population is healthy is that piss poor management and bad hunter ethics? I thought controlling the carrying capacity was one thing that justifies hunting.

Area 32 is not poor because of us. We have never hunted that area until last year. The only reason why we put in for it is because the G 7 F said it was one of the best areas in the state.
I do care to inform you.

In the area Casey and my father use to hunt the population was healthy until the area was developed, what do you not understand about that? There were no houses there and a bunch of goats, now there are a there is a bunch of houses and no goats. It's called displacement, not over hunting.

Area 32 is over hunted. That is a fact. There is a difference between development diminishing a herd and hunters diminishing a herd. To suggest we use unethical hunting behavior is total fares. We use the utmost ethical judgment every time we hunt, that is also a fact. We in no way had any effect on the poor population in area 32 just as we in no way had any effect on the area we use to hunt (and were the antelope flourished) that now is covered in millionaires homes.

Michael

 

[dakotakid]

Michael,

Comparing eastern whitetails to antelope out on the open range here in Wyoming is like comparing apples and oranges. The eastern whitetails are no doubt over populated and need to be thinned out. More for the health of the herd amd highway saftey than anything else. I really dont think our antelope are in jeopardy of overpopulation. I think you misunderstood my statement about piss poor management and unethical hunting practices. They were not aimed at you or your group, I know that you folks take alot of ethics afield. I aim the management practices at G&F and the unetical statement at ANYBODY that feels the need to shoot 7 does a year. If you want to dessimate a herd go ahead and shoot 7 does per year and see what happens. I blame the decline on goats in our state in part to weather related issues (drought and cold winters), in part to predators, and mostly to managemnt techniques. I dont know that with the millions of acres out there that homes will run the goats off. Take a look at the goats that live in and around Casper, they seem to adjust very well to humans. Look at the herds around outer drive. Look at the herds in Mt. Veiw and Mills.

You yourself said this in your last post "Area 32 is over hunted. That is a fact. There is a difference between development diminishing a herd and hunters diminishing a herd".

Overhunting is the key, 7 does a year is overhunting IMHO. No hard feelings, just sharing my point of view. Good luck on drawing a goat tag in the future, I beleive there are alot of good bucks still left out there.

Mike

 

[MartinHunter]

You live in Casper? Do we know you?

The whitetail comparison might have been reaching, but it is the same general concept.

NE ways, the area that we use to be able to harvest so many goats in was area 31, where the new 2nd Street development is. Also, with the development all the way down Hat Six Rd it would be hard to say that has had nothing to do with the decline of antelope around Casper.

I also think you may have miss understood Casey as well. The 7 doe harvest was not in one area, but a combination of several areas. 2 does per area, in general, would not cause a diminished herd in most healthy antelope populations. That is also even truer to the fact when you add that Casey did not have an any antelope license for those areas at the times when he shot so many does. There is a difference between how herds are diminished, area 32 is an example of over hunting and poor management, area 31 is an example of development. Were in area 31 would you feel safe even firing a high power rifle? First you would have to find something to shoot at.

I think that it is the G & F as well who are practicing poor management. Hunter, like myself, are sometime duped by their schemes to sell more licenses. It will not happen to me again, but you can bet when there is a license to be bought, someone will by it. Especially if they are told by an agency who is supposed to help and understand hunter?s needs and the needs of the herd tells them it is ok or even that it is needed.

As fare as luck to me in the future for drawing, technically when it come to goats, I will not need it. This is the last year I put in. I decided elk and deer are more cost effective and all around more exciting to to hunt. Maybe when my son grows up I will take him, if the tags are not a $100 and there are some left by then.

No hard feelings as well, thanks for the debate.

Michael

 

[Elkcrzy1]

Antelope are being over shot in most areas in wyoming thats why the herd is so much smaller than what it used to be. This two and three does per resident thing is crap no matter what the area. Hope the G&F pulls their head out soon. Gary

 

[MartinHunter]

I agree, one doe is enuff, and sometime more in ost areas ie area 32.
Michael

 

[cmiddleton]

that was the way the g&f had it set up down by douglas in the early 80's they let you buy 7 d&f tag per area you could get as many as you wonted by hitting different area's one man could killas many as they could wasn't me setting the rules just following them if you don't like that you should have called the g&f

 

[cmiddleton]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 08:13PM (MST)[p] micky it was one area and there were several of them that way. even after the large harvest they had a terrable die off due to depleted winter range and high population the g&f knows what they are doing and even though they have made mistakes they do know when there are to many for the range that winter they starved and froze to death in record numbers it would have been worse if it wasn't for the harvist.
also i don't think we have evr put in for a buck leicence there
its north of i-25 between glenrock and douglas i have never shot a doe in 32 just 1 buck all of 8" because he let me shoot him between the eyes and that was last year thats the only goat i have killed there