N-RAC Tonight

PleaseDear

Long Time Member
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The Northern RAC is tonight, Oct 14th @ 6pm.
Brigham City Community Center
24 North 300 West in Brigham

Give it a shot..... and voice your opinion..s
 
WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE COPY THIS AND TAKE IT TO THE RAC MEETING FOR ME???

JUST HAND IT TO THEM!!!

I DO NOT AGREE WITH LOWERING THE AGE CLASS OF BULLS TO A 3-4 OR 4-5 YEAR AGE CLASS!!!

WHEN YOU CAN SHOW ME A 3-4 YEAR OLD 400" CLASS BULL IN THE WILD (NOT RANCH RAISED)I MIGHT CHANGE MY MIND,BUT YOU CAN'T AND YOU NEVER WILL!!!

THERE ARE SOME OF US (ktc INCLUDED) THAT HAS AND WILL WAIT FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A CHANCE AT A TROPHY BULL,WHEN I SAY TROPHY,I'M TALKING 350"+ BULLS!!!

SOME OF US COULD CARE LESS TO HARVEST A 300" CLASS BULL IN A LIMITED ENTRY AREA,FOR THE HUNTERS THAT WANT A 300" BULL,LET THEM HUNT IN A GENERAL AREA!!!

I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYBODY WOULD MAKE CHANGES TO AREA'S IT'S TOOK YEARS TO GET TO WHERE THEY'RE AT TODAY,THE LE ELK UNITS ARE SOME OF THE ONLY TROPHY PRODUCING UNITS WE HAVE AT THE PRESENT TIME,WHY IN THE HELL WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO START WORKING THE UNITS OVER???

THERE ARE MANY OF EXAMPLES IN THE PAST OF DEER UNITS THAT HAVE BEEN MISMANAGED SO BAD YOU CAN'T FIND A 30" BUCK ON THEM NOW,LET'S USE OUR HEADS AND NOT DO THE SAME THING TO THE LE ELK UNITS!!!

REMEMBER:THERE COMES A TIME & PLACE FOR QUALITY OVER QUANTITY,LET'S NOT RUIN AND DESTROY TROPHY UNITS DUE TO NOTHING MORE THAN GREED!!!

NOT EVERYBODY AND THEIR BUDDIES BUDDY CAN TAKE A TROPHY ELK EVERY YEAR IN UTAH,DO THE MATH,SEE THE LIGHT!!!

I WOULD RATHER HARVEST ONE TROPHY BULL IN MY LIFETIME THAN HARVEST 25 RAGHORNS,BEEN WAITING A LIFETIME TO DRAW JUST ONCE AND I CAN PLAINLY SEE THINGS CHANGING DUE TO NOTHING MORE THAN GREED!!!

YA,I'M PROBABLY OUT NUMBERED,I CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH MYSELF,YOU CAN'T GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER,I WISHED WE COULD!!!

I'M LAYING MONEY ON THE TABLE,IF YOU MAKE CHANGES TO THE LE ELK UNITS,AFTER TWO YEARS THERE WON'T BE AS MANY TROPHY BULLS HARVESTED,***MARK MY WORD ON IT***WOULD SOMEBODY WANT TO WAGER SOME MONEY ON IT???

PLEASE DON'T DESTROY THE TROPHY UNITS,OVER HUNTING AREA'S HAS NEVER HELPED ANYWHERE IN UTAH,DO THE MATH,CHECK HISTORY,DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!

YA,I'LL CATCH SOME HELL OVER THIS,IT AIN'T THE FIRST TIME I'VE VOICED MY OPPINION!!!

USE THAT ROUND THING SITTING ATOP YOUR SHOULDERS,GOD GAVE IT TO US TO USE IN A SMART WAY,NOT JUST A GREEDY WAY!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF PEOPLE WILL USE THEIR THINKERS (JUST ONCE) AND NOT DESTROY LE ELK UNITS(DUE TO GREED) THAT HAVE TAKEN YEARS TO GET WHERE THEY'RE AT TODAY???

A VERY CONCERNED bobcat!!!

Robert Bess
 
I went to the central region rac on tuesday and there was not alot of attendance, maybe 60 people showed up. We did have alot to say and after they heard us they voted down the "choose either putting in for once in a lifetime or limited entry, not both".
There was also a very close vote (6 to 5) on the proposal of adding 5% of limited rifle tags for elk to be a premium hunt, you can hunt all three hunts, archery-rifle-muzzleloader, for a $500 fee. It did pass but just barely.

Go and voice your opinion!

Good Luck,
EH4
 
So how was the RAC mtg? How did they vote? Just curious how each part of the state views the proposals. Have a great day.

Chad
 
The N-RAC had about 50-60 folks,

They voted unanimous NOT to recomend the either or on LE or OIL so we can still have a chance to draw one or the other.
Stayed fairly well along the Elk Committee proposals for age class and barely past the Premium fee any/all seasons option. Wasn't that only $20.00 two years ago?? if ya drew a LE elk tag?? in a majority of units?

Implement a Handi-Cap..wheel chair combo hunt elk/deer to be in with the Youth elk hunt dates.

A fairly good presentation by Jim K. on the age class deal, bow and mzzldr LE hunters will be brought into the age class harvest stats and this will lower the age class of bulls harvested because those hunters will take younger bulls overall. BUT will still leave plenty of huge bulls and older bulls living each year even in the lower age class units..... kinda made good sense....

Easy 'bobcatbess and ktc' !!
 
I guess I'm really wondering whats wrong with the system we have now on the LE units? Utah has produced several 400 class bulls every year for the past several. Why change that? If people want more opportunity....hunt multiple states. I know how tight money can be, but like what has already been said...I have been putting in for a LE elk tag for 11 years, and now I can see my chances of killing that once in a lifetime class bull diminishing quickly. A 300 class bull elk surely isn't what I've been waiting for. And I don't agree with the fee for being able to hunt all three hunts. These animals are being pressured plenty already. If your preferrence is a muzzle loader so be it....hunt with your weapon....same with bow and rifle. I look at what has been accomplished and it has taken ALOT of years to make these LE units what they are today.....I don't want to see that changed.

Catman
 
Personnally, I don't want them to ruin the elk herd either, however, can someone tell me why these units with lower age objectives now are killing just as big if not bigger bulls?? I see these units that they are hunting spikes on, and they are killing bigger bulls than most of these units that are not. There is something to it guys, I don't know what, and it makes no sense, but killing a few more bulls, not a ton, will help some of these units. I could be wrong, but some of these units have to many bulls. Not healthy for the herd in my mind. How can Arizona kill the quality of bulls they do and give 200 bull tags a year. I am not saying to give 200 tags, but what would 20 rifle tags hurt?? Alright give it to me.
 
Robb,
Thanks for going to this one and keeping us informed. I hope you had a chance to voice your opinions.
Can someone please post the proposed age class changes for the various LE Elk unit's? Hopefully this info was passed out at the RAC meetings.
If this info is not available, then am I to "assume" the following: The 8 year area's( BC-Little, San Juan,Sw Desert, etc go to 5/6. The 6 year area's go to 4/5 and the 4 year units go to 3/4 all as shown in the 2004 Proclamation for LE Units?
Are there any of the LE units that were proposed to drastically change the age objectives on from there current objective?
Could someone give any example of changing these objective on one unit and show approx. how many more tags may be offered?
Thanks for the info!
Have a good day! Alan
 
Robb:

Thanks for the update.


Alan:

I don't think the age objectives will change how the permit numbers are actually calculated. These numbers have not really held much sway in the past. Permit numbers are not a scientific calculation based on age data from tooth samples. It's a combination base on harvest reporting, winter/spring head counts, bull to cow ratio and some input from age data.

This next year (2005) will probably not see any adjustment in permit numbers based solely on 2004 tooth/age data. As 2004 is the first year that all weapon types have been required to submit, there is no track record of what would be appropriate.

2004 harvest reporting will probably be used to see what kind of success rate the different weapon types had this year and will be used to determine how many more, if any, permits can be added for 2005.

We'll see at next springs RAC's what happens with permit allocation, but I don't forsee any major changes. Just a few more permits for all the units. Then see how the numbers come out. As we get a track record of hard data for the different weapon types, they will be able to become more scientific with the calculation for age classification vs. permit numbers.

In any case that's my take on the issue from what I've read and heard.

Cheers,
Pete
 
I will weigh in on the issue.....well...no I won't. ;-)

Thanks for the good information Pete. I like your responses. :)

I am well rested and happy today. :)

Chad, Pete, and Gordy...Please forgive me for my behavior. :) Oh ya, Deerlove you too. :)

May we all hammer 400 bulls.

I like bow hunters and wish them well. :)
 
No problem. I was doing my best to stir it up yesterday. So I probably got what I deserved. :)
 
KTC Apology accepted. Normally I am quite level headed but I get very passionate about elk hunting and also apologize to you for not keeping my mouth shut! I read through the posts today and quite enjoyed it but saw where I got a bit carried away! Have a great day and enjoy your hunts. I enjoy a good debate/ discussion and hope we can continue to discuss such issues in the future.

Chad
 
No need to apologize buddy. I kind of started that and kept egging you on. Hell, the few buddies I have made on this site is after a nasty debate like that. The site is fun when you can push a few buttons and get the hornets nest buzzing. You made me realize a few of the barriers bowhunters face that I was not privy to. It is good to have Pete around he can smother fires, kinda like Smokestick. I might have Pete a little sick of me though. ;-)

Good luck to you also. I am heading up to the hunting grounds for another scout trip. It is pretty bleak this year, but hopefully the weather changing a bit and the muzz hunters have stirred things up. I need to get stoked up about something and off this computer! If nothing else a good horse ride is in order.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-04 AT 10:51PM (MST)[p]KTC, a little "werewolfing" is good for all of us sometimes. You know, where the 4 letter explicatives come out in strings for about 30 seconds straight!

I just got lucky after reading some of the first posts on this one and walked away.

We have to remember that without guys like you, I'd have implemented 5000 archery permits on all the LE units already :)

In the end of the day I'm confident that you will pick up the bow again and bail on the open bull rifle hunts. I went out today with a bud to try and find him one. What a nightmare!

Now I truly remember why I have been bowhunting exclusively for all these years. The quality of the hunt is not even in the same universe, for me anyway.

We could never get sick of each other. Without the slugfest there'd be nothing to talk about and it's what makes the world go around. Seeing as how nome of us, but a few each year, get to hunt the buggers, this lively debate is all that there is for us to do until it's our turn.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Allen, basically it was keep the 4 year old age class units at that and drop the others back a year in age. Not really haveing to do much changes by simply adding the bow and the mzzldr LE elk hunters in the age class stats after the harvest reports are done.

Maybe it was a good 'sell job' but I have alot of confidence in what Jim K. says and he sure seems, over the years, to be a level headed guy and honest.

I don't see a big change in tag amounts coming down the pipe line for next year, just more spreading out weapon of choice hunters and off-set of some hunt seasons.

ktc, ya need to hook-up with one of us bow hunters and go for a good hunt on the Wasatch Front extended unit one morning. A good hike can clear the mind!! Shoot me an E-mail;, I go up atleast once a week.......... [email protected]
 
It is always good to hear from ya Pete. You kind of keep me on the level. The one guy said I needed to step back from myself. He was right.

PleaseDear, thanks for asking and a good hike does clear the mind. I got wounded a few years back and in all honesty my hiking days are over. You would be packing me out before it was over. Last night I walked about 50 yards off of the trail to get a better look at some bucks and thought I was going to die on the spot. :-( I hate 4-wheeler and truck traffic so I stay with my pony. I will hunt on my horse until I can no longer do that then hang it up. Maybe I just get pissed at the world that I have to try to go on one leg. Thankfully I am able to keep horses around and that keeps me going.
 
Mr. Bess,
The meeting addressed your following concern:

WHEN YOU CAN SHOW ME A 3-4 YEAR OLD 400" CLASS BULL IN THE WILD (NOT RANCH RAISED)I MIGHT CHANGE MY MIND,BUT YOU CAN'T AND YOU NEVER WILL!!!

THERE ARE SOME OF US (ktc INCLUDED) THAT HAS AND WILL WAIT FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A CHANCE AT A TROPHY BULL,WHEN I SAY TROPHY,I'M TALKING 350"+ BULLS!!!

SOME OF US COULD CARE LESS TO HARVEST A 300" CLASS BULL IN A LIMITED ENTRY AREA,FOR THE HUNTERS THAT WANT A 300" BULL,LET THEM HUNT IN A GENERAL AREA!!!

They explained that this is just how they determine how many tags to sell. If they are managing for 6-7 yr olds and the avg. age harvested is higher they sell more tags. If the avg. age is less they sell fewer tags. This does not mean the only bulls on the range are 6-7 yrs old. Some will be older & some will be younger. They stated that some of these areas have a lot of bulls living past their prime of 7-8.

I personally have a hard time agreeing that it is a good idea for a public agency to manage for everyone's expectations of a record bull at the expense of general public's opportunity. There is nothing wrong with a 300 to 350 bull.

I intended on giving a print of your thread as a courtesey for a fellow hunter, but your opinion was well expressed by many.

Hope your hunt is going well.

c isom
 
CHRIS

THANKS FOR GIVING THEM THE FEW PARAGRAPHS!!!

LIMITED ENTRY TROPHY AREA'S WERE NEVER SET UP FOR THE AVERAGE JOE,SURE ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO PUT IN CAN!!!

WHY WOULD PEOPLE PUT IN ON A LE HUNT JUST TO HARVEST A RAGHORN???

YOU CAN DO THAT ON OPEN GENERAL BULL AREA'S!!!

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN IN AN LE UNIT DURING SEASON BUT I SEE SEVERAL PEOPLE HELPING ONE HUNTER,PEOPLE THERE IN THE UNIT CALLING ELK,PEOPLE FILMING ELK,ETC.,NO I'M NOT MAD ABOUT THAT,I'VE DONE IT MYSELF,WHAT I'M SAYING IS THESE LE UNITS CAN ONLY STAND SO MUCH PRESSURE,NOW THEY WANT TO ADD PERMIT NUMBERS,ADD MORE HUNTS,ADD MORE COW HUNTS,ADD PREMIUM HUNTS,I'D HATE TO SEE A GOOD THING THAT TOOK MANY YEARS TO GET WHERE ITS AT TODAY RUINED BY GREED!!!

I AGREE,THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH A 300-350 BULL,BUT LET HIM LIVE ONE MORE YEAR AND YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE A 350'+ BULL!!!

A 300" BULL JUST DOESN'T EXCITE ME,I CAN TAKE ONE ON A GENERAL OPEN BULL AREA,WHY WOULD I TRY AND DRAW AN LE TAG AND TAKE A 300" BULL???,TO ME THAT WOULD BE TAKING THE OPPORTUNITY FROM A TROPHY HUNTER THAT HAS WAITED YEARS TO TRY AND GET THE TAG AND TAKE A 350"+ BULL!!!

REMEMBER THIS ONE:LIMITED ENTRY AREA'S ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE,ESPECIALLY THE GENERAL PUBLIC!!!

YA,I'LL CATCH HELL,BUT I'VE CAUGHT IT FOR YEARS!!!

REMEMBER:THEY ARE NOT MANAGING THE WHOLE STATE FOR TROPHY ELK,IF YOU DON'T CARE TO TAKE A TROPHY GIVE THE GUY'S THAT ARE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY FOR A TROPHY TAG AND HUNT THE OPEN BULL AREA'S!!!

MY HUNT HAS NOT WENT WELL YET,BUT I'LL KEEP GOING,THANKS!!!

THANKS AGAIN FOR GIVING THEM MY HARD HEADED ADVICE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING,PRAYING,BEGGING,(EVEN GONNA SEND SOME CASH IN MY APPLICATION THIS YEAR)TO GET AN LE ELK TAG BEFORE IT'S ALL OVER!!!
 
Amen guys. My thought also we already lost so much to the new tags in (04)and the loss of the pre archery. I will keep praying along with bobcat for my permit befor they make more hunts and more presure for the elk. Hey Bobcat I hear 100 cash plus use green ink on the back of you application. I haven't tried it yet. Might work.
Rut
 
Don't give up hope KTC. You will get your tag and while your waiting enjoy that horse ride. There is no better way to enjoy the back country than on the back of a good horse. Have a great day!

Chad
 

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