Will it break a shoulder?

[stinky]

I'm all set for hunting season (3 days). My partner, upon hearing that I'm going w/a .44 mag, said that I need to be sure to hit the boiler room, as it won't break the shoulder. I'm a thinking that he's all wet, as I'm using a 300 grain, lead cast-core bullet.

I'm not planning on doing it, but anybody got any personal experience w/hitting an elk in the shoulder w/a pistol?

 

[Chef]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-27-04 AT 05:28PM (MST)[p]Depends on the distance of the shot, but most importantly, the velocity and CONSTRUCTION of the bullet. Heavy weight isn't all it's cracked up to be if your bullet fails by falling apart upon impact.

Will you be using a pistol or a carbine? I suggest looking at the penetrator loads by CorBon. They will definitely do the job on an elk shoulder giving you do your part with the distance.

(FPPN 305 grains) corbon.com

Regards and good luck!
Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"

 

[BeanMan]

Stinky,

In 1988 a friend that was hunting with me shot a cow elk in the shoulder with a 44 mag Super Blackhawk. I don't recall what load it was. The cow was walking up a trail towards us and stopped broadside at 20 yards. The shot knocked the cow down but it got back up and ran off using all fours. We never did find it. Just one case in point but I'd aim for the boiler room.

BeanMan

 

[ktc]

Use a rifle.

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-27-04 AT 10:34PM (MST)[p]well said ktc, a elk is to big of an animal to use a pistol "for fun" thats why we are hunters and peta hates us, becuase using a pistol give an animal more of a chance to suffer or run away hurt, use a rifle
casey

 

[hornaddiction]

I would use a rifle!


Horn
www.trophiesonthewall.com

 

[Chef]

Gentlemen,
The question at hand is...will the .44 magnum firing a 300 grain bullet break an elk shoulder? There are variables to this, as I stated before.

I don't think one should jump to the conclusion that he should not use "a pistol" to hunt elk. Although not my prefered method, I do know of many that successfully tag game with pistols. For elk and bigger game, they do, however, use larger calibers. A .44 magnum is considered a capable sidearm in bear country remember? A .454 Casull or 500 Smith and Wesson are pistols too, and they are pretty potent. Granted they don't carry the ballistic charts that our rifles do...but neither do archers. A 280 grain premium expanding bullet, shot at the vitals of game, will down your animal. Much like an arrow, but at higher velocity and with more energy.

To hunt with a "hogleg", one needs to hunt the hunted and get in close. Exactly what an archer does. Does an archery hunter aim at the shoulder? Of course not, and neither should the pistol hunter. (unless we're talking dangerous game that's attacking and stopping the animal in it's tracks is the immediate intention)

Although, with the initial question in mind, I wonder if an arrow could break an elk shoulder? I know a .44 magnum loaded with the right bullet will. Not my first choice for point of aim in a hunting situation however.

Not trying to cause heat...just some lively discussion.

Regards,
Chef

"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

the .454 casull and .500 S&W are not pistols.... they are hand cannons. saw a guy shoot one at a range one time, he shot it 3 times then left!!! found out later he sold it to some one for 200$(he was kinda old to hold onto such a big gun)that thing was makin more racket than my dads 7mmum
Casey

 

[rost495]

Casey

Peta hates us because we hunt and kill. Not because our choice of weapons.

That being said, you can ruin an elk with a rifle, just like a bow or pistol.

Don't damn the hunter because of his choice. If he uses it responsibly everything will be fine.

You know they use 300 grain hard cast lead bullet to stop bears in Alaska? The same load I carry in my scandium airweight 44 mag in Alaska. Its saying something when you can put down a big black or grizz with that round.

Not to mention that the same pistol with 180s blows right through a broadside caribou.

Normally when folks choose a more difficult route its because they are tired of how easy and simple using a rifle is, and they will pass marginal shots. Its now do it the way they want or go home empty. Without a thought or problem.

I've hunted with my recurve with obsidian heads. Never had the shot I wanted but it was because I was picky. But I've seen deer shot with those heads and they don't suffer more or less than normal. Its all in placement.

But if I were the hunter I'd try to stay away from the shoulder with anything, rifle included. especially with bow and pistol or MZ.

Respectfullly, Jeff

 

[ktc]

Will a .44 break a shoulder? I don't know.

Will a .300 break a shoulder. Yes.

 

[RLH]

you can "break the shoulder" all you want and still lose it. you hafta have enough punch to get past the shoulder and into the lungs. i've driven a 240 grain hollowpoint XTP .44 through both shoulders on some good bulls. but it was out of a .50 cal muzzleloader with a buncha powder behind it. i'd think a 300 gr. out of a .44 would be real slow. if you're dead set on the pistol, shot for the ribs. a pistol will do it, but it depends on whether or not the hunter can get it done. and you're gonna hafta keep yourself to bow ranges. it's gonna be a real slug after about 50 or 60 yards. good luck. i'd hunt with a busted wine bottle if that's all that was allowed. i've shot quite a few bulls with a bow, and it ain't near the weapon as a .44.

 

[Hornseeker]

You know, there really isn't alot of shoulder to "break" on an elk. Its not like you have a big shoulder socket that you can shatter, breaking the shoulder might just mean putting a hole in the scapula. If you shoot really low you may break the joint where the scap and upper leg bone meet. Big deal. I'm with others, you can break all the front shoulders you want and still lose an elk. Matter fact, its probably a good way to lose an elk. If you dont penetrate through the vitals after breaking a shoulder that elk can flat motivate on 3 legs and probably wont die till predators take it down.

If you hunt em like archery and limit your shot to 30 yards or so and hittem in the lungs, the 44 will be great. That 44 with a hot load and 300 cast core will break whatever it needs to, at short range!

Good Luck and try not to break any shoulders.

 

[stinky]

Gentlemen, I sure do appreciate the replies. It was pretty much as I figured...that it would, but avoid it. He was putting in the same context you were, somewhat, he said that it wouldn't put one down, and yall said that it wouldn't put it down, EVERY-TIME, even though it may break the shoulder. I was thinking that a 300 grain hard-cast lead bullet is going be hard to stop. I'm planning on hitting the lungs and this was pretty much just food for thought.

Again, thanks for the replies.

 

[Bulzeye]

I shot a cow elk in Utah a few years ago with a .44 Mag Super Redhawk. I too was using a 300 cast core bullet. My shot was at about 40 yards and all I had was a neck shot. I hit where I was aiming and put her right down in her tracks. Problem was all I did was paralize her and after a couple of minutes used my knife to finish the job. That memory still does not sit well with me. If I had do do it all over again I would have been more selective and waited for a shot at the boiler room or not taken the shot! Be very selective when using this combination and you will be fine. Stay away from the shoulder and limit yourself to the same kind of shots you'd take with archery equipment.

 

[Chef]

Good luck on your hunt. Looks like you've recieved the advice you needed. Bring back the pictures!

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"

 

[ktc]

Rost,

Why on God's green earth would you hunt with obsidian heads? Why go through such great effort to prove your prowessness?

Do you like chisel them yourself? Or, do you go out and find ancient leftovers?

Do you use graphite shafts with your obsidian, or do you whittle your own sticks?

Do you use deer gut or tendons and stuff to make your string too?

Are obsidian heads legal to use? Do the meet the minimun requirements for arhery weapons?

This has got to be one of the oddest things I have ever read here. Well, next old pothead on the deer forum.

 

[rost495]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-04 AT 07:31PM (MST)[p]KTC

I'm sorry you don't know the joy of doing things yourself like this.

I've knapped some good sharp heads. Had an older man that used to do it all the time and its all he hunted with. Its what intrigued me. I'd laminated my own bow and wanted to take it further. I suppose its like carving your own decoys.

I do use carbon shafts at times. And all the time in my compound. But I've made my own shafts of yaupon and footed them with oak. Tied the heads on with tendons.

I have not made my own string. I can't answer why though cause I just never have.

I used feathers off turkeys I've killed with my recurve. They are also tied on with tendons.

My limbs were backed with rattlesnake skins I'd tanned.

Simply its just how much time you have( I had a bunch at that time before I got into match rifle shooting deeply) and what you want to do.

BTW I did even have some good heads that I found. We used to hunt hogs/javelina each spring on a big ranch that was full of heads. Had more fun finding heads and chips than hunting almost. Have seen some really beautiful heads come out of there too. Bird heads that were perfect and tiny.

But I'm rambling.

My point to the post was to keep everyone together as hunters and not divided into groups. We need each other. I'm not against taking a CF rifle and taking one hell of a long shot because I can do it. I'm also not averse to picking up my recurve and getting a 3 yard shot. Been on both ends and all down the middle. Its all relative to where you put it, not what you choose to do it with. Within each weapons limitations.

Hope that explains it enough. And nope I'm not a pothead. Never have tried the stuff and never will. Worst thing I put in my body is probably caffeine.

Oops, missed the legality question. 7/8 inch wide or wider and two blades. Sharp enough to shave bits of hair off your arm. Legal and what more do you need? Had a buddy that laughed at rocks being sharp one time. Quite a bit younger than I and just out of school. So a grabbed a piece of chipped flint and grabbed his shirt tail and sliced a piece off about quicker than it takes to type. How sharp does it have to be?

Jeff

 

[rost495]

For those that think that a rifle is just the ticket reference the shot placement in #13.

I had to take just that shot a long time back. But it was a whitetail. Only about 250 pounds (actually huge for the area) but I had only the center neck to shoot at. About 120 yards. I shot, hit there. Same result. Bullet broke the neck but did not instantly kill. Finished that buck with a knife.

Weapon of choice on that hunt? 300 Wtby mag, 180 grain Nosler Partition at 3180 fps. Supposed the best bullet going at that time and it was my elk load.

Problems can happen with any weapon you choose. I hate neck shots and thats about only 1 of about 3 I've ever been forced to take. Center of lungs is the best in my thoughts.

Jeff

 

[ktc]

I was just wondering. Sounds like you are into it.

I was referring to the hilarious pot smoking dude on the other thread. Not you. Don't be offended, hell, I smoked a doobie a couple of times when young. It was kind of fun to be honest.

I have been finding a few arrowheads. It is almost as fun as shooting deer. All of mine have busted tips though. I do know a guy that makes them. He likes it.

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

ktc, turn your in box on, i want to send you something
casey

 

[rutnbuck]

I think hunting with a 44 will be more apt to break your hand then your shoulder. Plus it might break your ear drums that is unless u use ear protection. i am sorry but i have busted elk in the shoulder with a 7 mag and had em run far enough some one else found their tracks and beat me to the elk and stole my elk. use a rifle the elk deserve the respect.
rut

 

[Phantom Hunter]

Aim just behind the shoulder with whatever you are shooting, (pistol/rifle/cannon). Why take a low percentage shot when you usually can get the high percentage shot if you are just patient.

Phantom Hunter

 

[rost495]

rutnbuck:

But what about those that shoot em with pistol and bow and they don't cover 50 yards? Maybe you should switch from 7 mag to pistol or bow?

Jeff

 

[usa]

Just a thought, but if you are not trying to break bone's then you might want to concider not using a hard-cast bullet, everything that I have shot with my .44 with hard-cast bullet's has been a complete pass thru with little periferal damage, leaving a .44 cal hole in one side and out the other, the only exception being a hog that I shot in the neck, the bullet hit him in the neck at about 40 yds and followed the spine down into his innards, I had to cut his throat to finish him off, on the other hand quality hollow points in the heart/lung area do a lot of damage and I've never lost an animal shot that way. As a side note I've just returned from Colorado where I killed a big 5x5, shot him through both shoulders with my .338 win mag using 250 gr nosler's at about 110 yds and guess what,yes he dropped instantly laid still for about a minute then jumped up and ran like hell, took 2 more round's to finish him off, so much for breaking the shoulder's.