UTAH ELK

elkantlers

elkantlers

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-04 AT 12:17PM (MST)[p]I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE ELSE THINKS THE UTAH DWR IS MAKING A BIG MISTAKE BY INCREASING THE NUMBER OF LIMITED ENTRY ELK TAGS. I HAVE HEARD THEY ARE INCREASING THE NUMBER OF ELK TAGS BY 50%. IS THIS TRUE? I DON'T BELIEVE THE HEARDS CAN SUPPORT THAT KIND OF A TAG INCREASE.

IT NEVER FAILS, JUST WHEN I AM GETTING CLOSE TO DRAWING A TAG THE DWR DOES SOMETHING TO MESS THINGS UP. I WISH THEY WOULD MANAGE FOR QUALITY NOT QUANTITY. I DON'T WANT TO DRAW AN ELK TAG WITH TWELVE POINTS, AND THEN HAVE TO WAIT IN LINE TO GET UP MY FAVORITE CANYON.

WE SHOULD LET THE DWR MANAGE THE MOSQUITOS AND HOUSE FLIES. YOU WOULD NEVER NEED TO BUY ANOTHER CAN OF BUG SPRAY AGAIN.
 
I think the push to increase tags (I haven't heard 50%) was brought about by the fact they are having a later season and don't predict as high of a success rate.

Rut
 
Weather or not there is an increase will depend on tooth data that they typically don't get back until Feb/March. Any significant increase in tags would have to be backed up with tooth data. For example, if on a 7-8 year old age class unit the average bull taken in 2004 was 7.5 years old, there should be no increase in the number of permits for 2005. However if it were 9.5 years old then the UDWR might recommend increasing the number of tags by 5 or so. Any dramatic changed in numbers for 2005, better be looked at real closely.

Elk management plans still need to be changed and the age classed dropped before they can increase the number of tags. This still has to go through the RAC and board process next year. These are the rules.

Just because there is now a late season doesn't mean the DWR is going to increase the number of permits.



Todd
 
the current tooth data is not an accurate way to judge the age class of elk on the LE units. i know there are some people that don't send in there teeth. these are usually the people that don't shoot large animals. i think the people that shoot a large bull elk are going to send in the teeth more frequently than someone that shoots a small bull. this will cause the estimated age of the elk to look older than it really is.

i think the late hunt will be a slaughter. the bull elk are much more visible in november when they are grouped up and on their winter range, or are in their transition areas waiting to move towards their winter range. if there is any snow at all they will be easy pickins.
 
Tooth data is the most accurate way to judge the age class of any animal that you can pull a tooth from period!

Having a small percent of people not turning in their teeth shouldn't really affect the overall outcome. I would have to disagree with your statement "these are usually the people that don't shoot large animals. i think the people that shoot a large bull elk are going to send in the teeth more frequently than someone that shoots a small bull. this will cause the estimated age of the elk to look older than it really is."

The UDWR gets most of the tooth data back.

Todd
 
There is one point you guys are missing; The NEW elk management plan. The plan calls for units to be managed as 3-4 year, 4-5 year, 6-7 year. This means that if the tooth data comes in at 6 on the Wasatch then the unit is NOW over objective under the new plan, which means more tags.

I feel that the lower age objectives will allow hunters to be able to hunt, while maintaining a decent quality. Maybe we can get the Pahvant and San Juan down to 1 bull per 3 cows rather than the 1 to 1 or 2 ratio that they are presently. There will still be good bulls around, but maybe the hunter will have to look a little bit harder.
 
I say, bring on the tags.

There are bulls dying of old age.

Hunter success doesn't need to be 90+% on early rifle hunts.

I'm sick of waiting to draw-10 years.

And I'd rather hunt mule deer!
 
I To wondered at one time if the DWR was making and mistake. But after hearing alot of different opinions on this site and a local game warden I think most of the units could keep the quality they have even with a 50% increase. In the units around where I live that would only amount to 10 to 20 additional tags. That is only the units I am familiar with I am sure that is not the case on every unit.

I spent alot of time on one particular unit hunting and helping with the family cattle in the summer and 20 years ago you never seen an elk on this mountain. Now you can go any morning or evening and see several elk a day. Also our spike units are doing very well and producing some great bulls while gaining herd size yearly. One thing I think could offset the increase in bull tags would be to decrease the number of cow tags.

I have been trying to draw all my life and the last thing I want to see is the quality of our elk herds ruined, I also believe the DWR who have managed the elk to what we have today are not going to do anything to ruin 20 years of good planning and management.
 
on the late hunt it is not as easy, my bro. drew a nevada tag. which the hunt took place later in the year, his unit was close to utah and idaho borders. he ended up shooting a decent bull but a little broken but had to work to get one. these late hunts do not allow a hunter to shoot bulls before they breed and while they are rutting which makes it easier to get the big boys. my two cents worth. this hunt was two years ago.
 
Does anyone have any more information of the tag allotment plan for this upcoming year?

Blanding, has the proposal not yet been made official? You state some more stuff has to take place for the tag increases to go into effect? Do you know any more?

Prism, what the hell do you mean bring on the tags? You are complaining about Utah deer future. Utah brought on the deer tags for decades and look at how well that worked.
 
Kct

When I was at the Wildlife Board meeting in December where the proposal was presented to the wildlife bard, Jim K. made it very clear that age classes would not be dropped this year because unit management plans needed to be changed. Hence we should not see any significant increase in numbers of harvest objectives unless the tooth data and or population objectives support these increases. These changes were not included in the proposal for this year and would need to be changed ie going through the RAC and board process next year unless they were to pull it off this spring when they make recommendations for harvest to the RAC and board.

The late season hunts were approved but increase were not, just my understanding.

Todd
 
Thanks Todd. I am trying to take the age class reductions and tag allotment into account when appling this year. This may be the year to draw. Who knows how this will all pan out.

I hope they do not do anything retarded. I also hope they don't give into the pressure of the "pointless."
 
ktc,

I didn't mean lets have an all out unlimited number of tags given. I still think the state should manage the elk herds to produce trophys, but I think they could offer a lot more tags in certain units-such as the Wasatch.

Hopefully the new season stucture will prove to be a good way to offer more tags with less harvest. I love to hunt elk and can't wait to draw a quality tag in Utah. I haven't spent the last 10 years waiting to shoot anything less than a 350 or larger bull, but I think it's time the state "brings on the tags," in some units anyways.
 
Gentelmen
The wildlife board passed the changes talked about above.
All le units have had their age classes lowered.Done deal!!!
ALL le units will have tag increases for 05 hunt season.
If your concerned about quality the april rac's are when you will see the #'s proposed.The dwr web site has rac scheduals.If all the teeth are not aged then the tooth data is not accurate.I'm betting we are in for a BIG MF'N SUPRISE!!!!
You guy's with max points need to really think things over and go for the odd's.You have two years before they'll shoot up the quality.
My waffel is done I'll be back!

338boy
 
BOBCAT I apologize!



I'M THE ONLY 338BOY WAITING TO SEE A BULL ELK THAT DIED OF OLD AGE IN UTAH!!!!!!!

338BOY
 
You guys have me confused.

The argument over added tag increases was heated. 338, you sound concerned about the increase shooting out the quality, but SFW who you defend to the death, was a player in this increase and on the elk committee.

I will go with what Blanding says. Or, at least I hope he is right. If someone knows some definite facts surrounding the current year increases please post up.

Where is JimK? He showed up once to put everyone at ease. What is the story? Should guys with 12 points hope they draw before it gets screwed up? Or, are the increases minimal not to screw it up. Or, do you plan not to screw it up? Please tell me 50% isn't so to screw it up. Ah, screw it....
 
SFW Had one person on the committee.
Many on the committee wanted 3 to 4 year old state wide.The sfw guy helped that not happen!Ther are many sfw members happy with the changes and many very unhappy.There were sfw members in favor and many opposed.It looks to me it's a bonus point thing. Us with alot of points are concerned, and alot of guy's(not all) without points are happy.Very devisive issue. I've made it clear that I put quality first,(check out my post's on this forum)The guy's with alot of points are now the minority and we simply got out voted .I DON'T LIKE IT ANY MORE THAN YOU DO.
The committee rec's went to the rac's then to the wildlife board.
Where they passed everything except the one brown thing.For the 05 season's.See if there are november hunt tables in the proclamation, that's part of what passed.Since your the agressive type I'll make a friendly wager, you call the deal.Better yet if I'm right you go buy a sponsor member tickit to the carbon- emery sfw banquet.($250) IF I'M WRONG I'LL BUY YOUR TICKET.Their giving away a manti bull tag in their sponser drawing.

338boy
 
$250! To eat dinner with you? ;-) I can get a Manti tag if I want it for $30 more. Hell, I will save that in gas driving to Emery County. Not interested.

Since your confidence is overflowing, tell me, what percentage is the increase?

Yes, November hunts are in the regs. However, 30% go into November and non-resident late hunts show no tags for 2005 (in most cases) where there is less than 3 non-resident tags for 2004, given in September. This leads me to believe the increase will be small if any. Utah allows non-residents 10%. With an increase they would not be following that rule and the "b" says no NR tags. If I am wrong you can buy me a case of beer. If I am right, you can still buy me the beer.
 
ktc
Thought I'd get things in line.
The increase will be determined by age data (teeth) collected this year.You have to take into consideration most of the current units (I'll stay with 5-6 and above cause 3-4 don't intrest me)are at or above age objective.So the 7-8 yr units will start towards 4-5 yr's in 05.I don't think they will try to get there in one year but they will move as fast as they dare.The manti in 04 was 5-6 objective.But the actuall data showed 7.2 yaer harvest in 03.So if we're going to 4-5 it's going to look alot diffrent up there in a few years.You can do the math on the 7-8 year units going down to 4-5 year units.50% reduction in quality ="s how many tags?There is room for alot of tags when your cutting the harvest quality in half.Now the management plans call for lower age class there is nouthing stopping them.That being said Jim K SHOULD BE CREDITED with alot of the quality cause he got spike only started in ut.So I hope they will take it slow.Get ahold of the dwr and ask for a list of elk committee members so you can talk with them.They will be involved in the #'s proposed.Until the teeth come back from 04 harvest nobody is talking.
Instead of beer I should get you something stronger your going to need it .


338boy
 
My understanding is that we are looking at a 15% increase and slowly from there. Your friend told me that.
 
This is only my 5th year applying and I've got alot of non residents ahead of me before I draw. I'm hoping for a miracle and to get drawn on one of the random tag allocations but there were only about 3 that did that last year in my area. If it's going to affect the quality I'd just as soon they remained the same but time will tell. Now I'm just hoping to draw before any possible quality issues come into play.
 
338boy:

A major point everyone seems to keep missing is that the age data will be collected from all weapon types from now on. As you add tooth data from archery and muzzleloader hunts, you will account for nearly all the age catagory change right there.

We are not going to see 15% across the board increases in permits. That's my story and I'm sticking to it :)

We will see more tags, but not because the age classification is changing. Most of that change will be accounted for by the fact that archers and muzzloaders shoot younger bulls on average.

We will see increases in permits based on the fact that most units have bull to cow ratios that are way out of line. Right now we are harvesting 10 cows to 1 bull on most units each year. This is an unsustainable position to be in over the long haul.

The spring RAC's could be pretty intresting this year :)

Cheers,
Pete
 
I recived this email from the division coordinator a couple days ago "We anticipate that there will be increases in limited entry elk permits.
However, we won't know how much of an increase until we have all of the
age class and harvest data for 2004. We expect to have that information
by early February. Archery will still get 25% of the tags and
muzzleloader 15%.

Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
Big Game Program Coordinator
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-04
>AT 12:17?PM (MST)
>
>I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE ELSE
>THINKS THE UTAH DWR IS
>MAKING A BIG MISTAKE BY
>INCREASING THE NUMBER OF LIMITED
>ENTRY ELK TAGS. I HAVE
>HEARD THEY ARE INCREASING THE
>NUMBER OF ELK TAGS BY
>50%. IS THIS TRUE? I
>DON'T BELIEVE THE HEARDS CAN
>SUPPORT THAT KIND OF A
>TAG INCREASE.
>
>IT NEVER FAILS, JUST WHEN I
>AM GETTING CLOSE TO DRAWING
>A TAG THE DWR DOES
>SOMETHING TO MESS THINGS UP.
>I WISH THEY WOULD MANAGE
>FOR QUALITY NOT QUANTITY. I
>DON'T WANT TO DRAW AN
>ELK TAG WITH TWELVE POINTS,
>AND THEN HAVE TO WAIT
>IN LINE TO GET UP
>MY FAVORITE CANYON.
>
>WE SHOULD LET THE DWR MANAGE
>THE MOSQUITOS AND HOUSE FLIES.
>YOU WOULD NEVER NEED TO
>BUY ANOTHER CAN OF BUG
>SPRAY AGAIN.
You have got to be kidding me??? you are worried about the crowds on an LE Elk Hunt??? You must have never been in the mountains during the LE ELk Hunt....It isnt like opening day of the General hunt.
 
i have been on the mountain during the limited hunts. my wife drew a manti elk tag in '99. she shot her elk on the third day. we never saw another hunter!!! my bro-in-law drew a manti elk tag in 2000. he shot his elk on the fifth day and we saw one other hunter the whole hunt. i was on the same hunt with a friend in '03 and i wondered where all the people came from. last year was rediculous. there where people everywhere. there was something like 112 people that drew manti any weapon tags last year. in my humble opinion, that is too many if you want a "quality" hunting experience.

as i have said before, i haven't waited twelve years too have too wait in line to get up my favorite canyons.
 
The thing that sucks is you get 12 points, then the rules get altered. I figured that would happen. It has happened before.

The high point holders are the ones getting screwed, but surely that is not the concern of the elk committee. The concern is getting the guy who drew out 3 years ago another chance or the guy that hunted deer on the Paunsagaunt a chance soon.
 
Elkantlers,

Im suprised you saw many people this year. I drew the Manti LE any weapon tag and saw two other hunters the whole time. One took a bull out of the same canyon my bull came out of, and the other hunted 10 miles from where I was. I really dont think 112 tags for a unit the size of the Manti is really that big of a deal.

TUFF
 
T, I don't know much about Manti but from what I've heard it isn't the LE bull elk hunters that are causing the crowded conditions it is the deer and spike hunters? I'm curious if you noticed this and if by chance there are parts of the unit that there aren't as many deer hunters?
 
The LE elk Any Weapon hunt occurs when ther aren't any other deer or elk hunts going on. The Archery and Muzz hunts are a different story....escpecially the archery with both elk and deer hunters hunting at that time.
 
tuff, you already had your elk tag, so i'm not suprised that you don't think 112 tags for the manti is too much. they could double the tags and it wouldn't make any difference to you.

it was said that the people that are getting screwed are the people with 10+ points. that is a very true statement. all the people that have already drawn deer and antelope tags are now whining and crying that they only have 4 or 5 points and it is going to take 20 years for them to draw an elk tag. well, i have not drawn anything. so i don't want to hear there whining. if they had been puting in for 12 years like i have with nothing to show for it they would feel the same as i do. high bonus point holders are a minority, and that is why we are getting the shaft. that and the higher ups in the dwr don't know what is going on.


the thing that suprised me about seeing all the people during the manti elk hunt is that we were hunting in some pretty remote country. we had rode in on horses. we were sitting on a ridge glassing this big basin that had a little herd of elk bedded in it. there was one bull about 300-320". when these two guys on a pair of walkers came down the hill and wanted to talk. they were from slc. i couldn't believe it. i thought we were the only ones in the area. the one had a tag and they said they had seen a couple of small 5 point bulls earlier, but wanted a 350+ bull. i said who doesn't. i showed them the elk we were looking at, and they about crapped themselves. you would have thought they were looking at the new state record. they were ready to go kill that bull, but i told them we were going after it later. we had no intentions of going after it, but i didn't want those dinks shoot it either. let them find one on their own. we saw 3 other groups of hunters that day.

i wish they dwr would split the unit in half, right down the huntington canyon road. make two smaller units. these two new units would still be pretty big though.
 
Just becasue Ive drawn my tag, doesnt mean I dont care what happens to the unit. I dont want them screwing that unit up, because I'd like to hunt it again some day.I would strongly oppose them doubling the amount of tags in the unit. All I said is that the 112 tags isnt a bad number for the unit.....heck, they could round it up to an even 120 tags, an it still wouldnt be a big deal, in my own opinion. The Manti is HUGE....there are MANY places you could go to find elk, where you would never see another hunter etc.

Heck, this year I saw more "spectators" during the hunt then anything. I ran into probably 5 different people who were just wandering around the mountain to see what guys were taking, and just looking at/calling in bulls. (Which is fine with me.)

NOw, I agree with the maxed out points complaint....heck, I felt bad that I drew with 2 points, when there are guys who have 12 points, and have had 12 points for many many years, and still havent drawn. But, the "feeling bad" only lasted a minute or two. :) I think they need to revamp things to give the majority point holders even more of an advantage, but then again, its like they say, "Luck of the draw". Im not going to be too upset if I draw again with only 2 points.

TUFF
 
People have not had 12 points for many many years. This year 12 points is the max Tuffbucker. Now applicants could of been putting in for limited elk before the bonus point sytem came about if this is what you meant. People with 12 points should quit complaining and maybe do some homework on the type of class bull you would be willing to take. Try other units with better odds and you will draw and if you work at it you can find the same qaulity of bulls on some of these other units that have better draw odds.Utah has some great bulls on each unit available.I think most people with 12 points are putting in for the Pahvant,monroe,southwest desert,Wasatch ECT..Look at the odds and you could draw a great hunt for rifle during the rut or try muzzleloader if you dont want to waste the points on archery due to low harvest.This year will be interesting to see how the hunters do on harvest data on the late elk hunts. If they harvest more bulls than the dwr had planned it will need to be changed again so the units can hold trophy animals. If it does not change to much due to low harvest I think they will even give more permits in 2006 depending on the tooth data they collect from this years hunts.I agree I do feel for the guys and gals with max points and cant seem to draw a tag but the system is working. You get to go for half the tags that are available on the unit you put in for.It could be worse just hang in there and I hope you draw your dream hunt. I am still waiting myself to draw and hope this is the year.I have 8 points for elk and will wait my turn.
 
I'm curious what you guys thoughts are for the early vs late season rifle elk hunts? Obviously it seems like the early season the bulls would be easier to locate and you might possibly be able to see more bulls due to the rut. I imagine the late season might be somewhat tougher but if the bulls aren't pressured and there is snow to track and locate animals I would still think it would be a good hunt? It will be interesting to see how many applicants switch over to the late hunt draw in hopes of better draw odds.
 
warbirdum, i, and many others, have a certain unit that we put in for year after year. we don't want to put in on some other unit just because it is easier to draw a tag. there is a reason it is easier to draw, and that is because the quality of the bulls are not as good on the units that are easier to draw. the way things are looking, a utah le elk tag is practically a once in a life time. i just want to make sure that when i finally draw a tag it is for a unit that has quality bulls. but, the utah dwr is making things pretty tough for us by implementing the decrease in age for the elk.
 
Good advice bird. Maybe the quicker us 12 point guys get out of the system your 8 points will look better. Maybe I could try Diamond Mountain or Oquirrhs. Some dandies have come from there.

I have done homework. 23 years worth. Thanks for your suggestions, but I think I can handle where to apply.

You are right antlers. It is tough to do homework when you are trying to outguess the elk committee with tag number increases, age class reduction fiascos, early season, late season, premium season, and convention conservation tag numbers.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-05 AT 07:30AM (MST)[p]Hey ktc I am not bashing you on which unit you would like to draw. I want a 400 inch bull also but guess what it will be tough no matter what unit you are going after. What would you consider a shooter bull 400 and larger? Good luck. I think most people would shoot a 360 plus and be happy. I dont know the unit you have been going for with 12 points but did you know the new # 2 in the state came from a unit that you could of drawn with just 10 points.407 gross. and no it was not the diamond or the oquirrs. I put in for an archery tag so dont worry about me wanting you out of the pool with your 12 points. I was just trying to say in my earlier post that some units get over looked. I would not throw 12 points away either but you could draw the unit where the new # 2 record was taken in 2004. It is a great hunt I was with a friend on this unit last year he harvested a real nice bull with 10 bonus points.
Good luck on your 23 years worth of homework you deserve a great elk tag I hope you can draw the unit you want within the next 15 or so years.
 
I was not bashing you either bird. However, I have waited and will wait to get the tag I want. I just hope the elk committee does not ruin a good thing. It appears they are doing their best to do so.

I am well aware of what is happening out there. I will use my points where I feel is best. Trust me, when I draw, I will know what is out there and will attempt to get one of the better bulls. To get a good bull you have to look at lots of elk.

What do I think is a shooter you ask? I have never said 400 because I am not unrealistic or retarded. I couldn't score a 400 bull on the hoof or identify one if it bit me in the butt. The definition of a shooter would certainly depend on what scouting suggests would be a shooter. After I draw, get in several scouting trips, then ask me what a shooter is. Thanks for the good luck wishes, but I do not need luck. I need a tag and some time. I am not a guy who draws, sits on his ass, and tells everyone 370 without scouting and even being able to identify what 300, 350, or 400 even is. I like to take a poke at guessing scores, but tend to come up 30 points short of actual score. So who knows. My definition of a shooter is one that is big and score does not matter because it is big. Score is what you do after the thing is dead and on your garage floor. Luck or scouting is the key, in my opinion, to getting a better than average elk no matter what unit. People see a dead 370 bull and think that is just what you get. It takes lots of time and effort. I would guess for every bull that goes over 350, there are 50 or more that go less.
 
517 residents have 12 points this year. You are right ktc the age of elk will be going down in alot of the well known units it sounds like with the plan to move more tags. Hope you can draw so I can see a photo of your bull next fall on M.M.
You forgot to write it takes alot of skill besides being lucky and alot of scouting and I am sure you have plenty of skill.
 
It does sound like you have the skill that goes along with alot of scouting and knowing the area you want real well. I did not mean anything smartass about the comment. Sounds like you know the unit well and that you would put your time and skills into the hunt wisely. Hope you get a big one if you do draw this year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-05 AT 06:00PM (MST)[p]Well, I apologize bird. I had a feeling you were yanking my chain a bit. Trying to get my feathers ruffled.

I do not know how much skill I have, but I do know nothing is a given. These guys that get good bulls have done lots of work to get what they get. Too many times I hear guys draw and say 370 and haven't looked even once. They get a small bull and they are mad. I agree, big bulls are on most if not all units, but getting them is a different story.

I am not sure how a guy would feel to draw out. Seems like the fun is putting in and getting a unsuccessful letter. ;-)
 
ktc, you wrote "I am not sure how a guy would feel to draw out. Seems like the fun is putting in and getting a unsuccessful letter".

i can't say how it would feel to draw my own tag, but when my wife drew her manti elk tag in '99 it was all stress!!! putting in and getting the rejection notices is the easy part. once you draw a tag there is all sorts of expectations. you have people telling you they saw a 350" bull up this canyon and a 365" bull up that canyon and then they say it should be "easy to get a 350" bull. the funny thing is, most of the people telling you about these bulls wouldn't know a 350" bull if it came up and took a leak on their shoes.

after two months of hearing all that crap you feel like if you don't shoot a monster you are a failure.

the one thing i told my wife is that if a bull looked good to her she should shoot. i did tell her she should hold out for a 6 point though. in the three days we hunted we looked at over 30 different bulls, and a good portion of those were 6 points. on monday of the hunt we went back into an area we had hunted on opening morning and she ended up shooting a good 6 point that she had passed on the first day. it was pretty cool because we had video of the bull on opening day coming into less than 20 yds.
 
antlers,

Looking ahead, I can assure you stress will be the word of the day if I ever get lucky. Can I fullfill my expectations? What can go wrong? Will the archers nail the one I watched? I am sure all kinds of things run through your head. It is a once in a lifetime deal and should be treated as such.

I kind of chuckle. People telling you about the big ones in every canyon. Kind of like deer hunting. Everyone sees 30" bucks all summer long, but they never bring them home. I know one guy who drew a pretty good tag. Never scouted once. Told me about the 370 bull he was going to get. Asked why he wasn't scouting and he said his buds knew where to go. Ended up with a 260 at first light first day. Talk about mad. The results echoed the effort.

People put scores on the table for you to meet. I think it is about doing what you want, meeting your own expectations, and putting in the effort to see the results you want. I will be my biggest critic.

We see big bulls killed every year. They exist, but getting one is not a given. It doesn't sound like your wife failed to me. It looked good to her and she shot it. Nothing wrong with that. You didn't mention the bull's score and it does not matter. People get a little to hung up on score.

Now I will go worry about 350.;-)
 
the good thing about the scoring system is it is a fast way to communicate the size of the bull.
you tell someone you saw a 350" bull and immediatly they can relate to the size of the bull.
the bad thing is that most people (including myself) cannot make a 100% accurate judgement of an animals score all of the time.
i can get pretty close most of the time, but 100%
this leads me to believe that when someone tells you they saw a 350" bull you need to take it with a grain of salt.
they may not be intending to mislead you, it may just be a simple misjudgement.

i was hunting spike elk one time with a buddy. we were slowly hunting this thick patch of timber when this big bull jumped from its bed and made a hasty get away. we were able to see this bull for maybe 5-6 seconds. in the time i was able to see the elk i could tell he was a 6 point and pretty long tines. i thought he would score 300-320" but it was a quick look so i couldn't tell for sure. my buddy swore the bull was 350"+. i asked him if we were looking at the same elk. was my buddy correct on the bulls score or was i? who knows.

that just goes to show you how different people can have totally different opinions on the scores.
 

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