Ranching for Wildlife - your feedback requested

[Grasshopper]

Fellow hunters,

I received notification today that I have been selected to serve as a sportsmens rep on the CDOW Ranching for Wildlife review commitee. It indicated in the notification we will be looking at how the program can be improved, and it was also a recomendation that I solicit the opinions other sportsmen.

If you have suggestions as to how you would like to see Ranching for Wildlife improve, from a sportsmen's perspective - please email me your thoughts and I will do my best to weigh public opinion and provide input to improve the program.

Personal opinion here, but I would really like to see Colorado add additional access to private lands for public hunting.

My email address is [email protected] if you care to share your thoughts.

I am sure the public will have the opportunity to provide direct feedback as well...more info to come.

Thanks!

Steve Hilde

 

[gleninaz]

Sent you an email with my opinion. Let them know that they are in for a fight in Arizona. If you are concerned with public access then recommend a Heritage stamp with funding allocated for actual damage and improvements only if landowners allow public hunter access. Ask them about the Arizona presentation for private tags that pushed the damage issue then ask them why NMG&F told us that 90% of the private cow elk tags go in the trash every year. This group and USO just keep pokin' the bear and it will end up with legislation they ain't gonna like IMO.

 

[COHunter]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-05 AT 10:14AM (MST)[p]I think that the public hunters should have they're seasons set by the DOW to be at the peak hunting time's for each species. Also I would up the percentage of male tags the public gets. maybe 20-25%

Seasons should be
Sept for Elk
late Nov for Deer

 

[chambero]

As a nonresident, I think that it is fine that we don't have access to the tags available to Colorado residents. We can hunt there if we are willing to pay. No different than some of the tags you can access for private land in other states like NM. I don't think that the ranches should be expected to make publicly awarded tags available for season dates other than the normal season dates elsewhere in CO. It seems to me to be a reasonable tradeoff to give CO residents free access to very good private land.

 

[Waygoner]

I would appreciate it if you would give an overview of the program and how it works. What it is, why, how, etc.

The landowner tags are another source of confusion. Anyone care to explain how that works?

 

[sealer]

Steve,
Instead of sending you an email, I'd like to post my opinion of RFW here hoping that other MM members can possibly add some clarification.

My biggest question (and fear) of RFW is the rumor/fact that a lot of these ranches don't put their RFW draw hunters on the same quality animals that they put their big-money paying customers on. I've heard of people accumulating preference points for what they consider a superior hunt on a RFW ranch only to be set-up on a section of the property devoid of quality animals.

Now I understand that there is probably one "great hunting experience" for every bad story I've ever heard about RFW, but I don't believe there is any accountability on the outfitter's part.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily put all the blame on the outfitters. After all, it is only good business to make every attempt to harvest a quality animal for their paying customers who may return year after year.

With that being said, it would be tough for me to dump 8-10 preference points on a RFW hunt and settle on a 20" 3X3 on the last day of my hunt.

 

[DeerKing]

Sealer
Very well said. I'd be very, very hesitant to burn a lot of points on an RFW hunt for a trophy sized animal. The cow and doe hunts may be a different story as they are usually fairly abundant. I know one RFW property owner and he was pretty up front with me about the paying clients getting first dibs on the big critters and primo sections of land to hunt. It's all about the dollar for them and its in there best interest to give the paying clients the best animals as many of them become repeat customers. There are a few good ones that seem to run a legit "business" but do your homework first.

AntlerQuest Hunt Consulting

 

[BeanMan]

Guess I'll have to weigh in. I was one of the dummies who saved a lot of points and took it for granted that having a lot of points and drawing a RFW would get you into some good deer.

I accumulated 11 points, hunted archery otc in the early years and a bunch of 2nd choices so I did hunt. I burned them at Lunatic Cheese Eater RFW 2 years ago. It was a major disapointment on many levels. First off they wouldn't let me scout. They wouldn't let me on the property until 15 munutes AFTER shooting light, it took another 45 minutes of bumping along on the jeep trail to get into a decent spot, by then the best part of the day was gone. In four days of hunting I saw only a few small bucks, granted the weather conditions were a factor. The odds were stacked against the public tag hunter from day one. Other RFW's may be different but there is no real reason for them to treat joe public well when they can sell tags for big bucks. They ARE going to treat the paying cusomer better.

About 8 years ago I drew a buck antelope tag on a RFW North of Craig. The guy running the show didn't bother to get around to unlocking the gate until well after first light, just plain had no reason to care. I've shot a couple of cow elk at Three Forks and it was OK, for Cows.

If you are going to hunt meat then they can be a good deal.

My two cents,

Beanman

 

[sneakem]

I think the problem is still going to be the same... Everyone tries to lump all the RFW's problems into one solution. There are surveys the hunters should complete and return as a part of the RFW program. You can't just lump all ranches into a general solution. For instance not all RFW properties are trophy quality, they allow public access in hopes of managing herd numbers on large tracts of land. If these properties were not hunted at all, chances are all the animals off the national forest and BLM land would just pile on there, "the refuge" and you would have even less animals on public lands.... Also the RFW property I work for pays "us" guides to take "you" public hunters on a guided hunt for free. Let me tell you that the guides are not cheap to pay, and the ranch does this out of its own pocket... But I guess what I'm saying is fill out the questionaire and then try to solve the problems individually not as a whole, its not like there are 4000 RFW properties and its too time consuming....JMHO

 

[hoytstaff]

plain and simple the public hunters should hunt the same place that the pay hunters do ,thats way the ranch sets the date for public guys . had a loud talk with one of the guides that did not have his pay hunters out.before the cow season

 

[wile]

As a nonresident I think the residents should look at the RFW property hunts as freezer filler hunts and if they want the big bulls and bucks they should pony up the money like I would have to to hunt the ranch.

 

[sealer]

sneakem,
As a hunter who values your opinion and envies your position I'd have to comment that the guys I know that have done RFW hunts have NEVER had a guide...they've had "guides" check them in at the gates but that's it...nothing more or less.

I'm not completely against RFW hunts, but as Jeff said, if you're gonna do one of these hunts you'd better do your homework. There's bound to be as many bad ranches as there are good ones.

This has never been an issue of how much $$$ one is willing to spend on a quality animal. The DOW and the RFW ranches promote these hunts in an incomplete manner. Damn, the ranches get extra tags to participate in this program and basically get away with robbery with regards to the draw hunters. IMHO, the system and program is jacked...

Enough said...this horse is dead...

BTW, God bless Chris Ledoux and his family.

 

[sneakem]

I would agree with some of what is said. A lot depends on the ranch... Not all follow the same rules...Do your research and if you hunt a bad one, make sure you send in your questionaire to the DOW... As for our ranch, we were the first in colorado's RFW to offer a free guided hunt to the public, hunting the same ground paid hunters do...Finding that more and more are following in our footsteps, not all. I think its kinda special to get to hunt with the public, a lot of youth hunters first hunts, and its absolutely free. Our public seasons run a little later than the private clients, but we are not quality, were quantity, so there are plenty to go around.

 

[walltenthunter]

I have notpersonally hunted RFW yet have talked to folks very familiar with at least one RFW operation near Glade Park. The person indicated this operation takes the vast majority of bulls in September by rifle. His contention is that this RFW operation takes out a very high # of herd bulls, to the detriment of the herd balance for that unit for the balance of hunting seasons (and beyond). His recommendation (past guide) would be to limit the take per RFW operation to no more than 1/3 of their entire harvest, the second 1/3 between Oct and Nov and the last 1/3 Nov into December. The rifle harvest during the rut has to be considered controversial given no other Colorado hunters are allowed to hunt via rifle anywhere else until approximately Oct. 10th. Also, do the bulls not deserve a rest as the rest of the state provides to allow the bulls to breed the cows and have a 2 week break from the end of archery season as we know it to what would then be the beginning of the first 'elk only' rifle season.

I know RFW operations are unique, yet as a hunter I would think they ought to abide more by the regulations other hunters have to abide by, and if indeed these RFW operations are taking the majority of their bull harvest in September by rifle in the heart of the rut, then the RFW Committee simply has to take a deep look at how this can be supportable.

Also, given Colorado has in the past had no surplus of mature bulls in units excepting the quality units, the take of mature bulls in FRW ought not be off grounds for not exacerbating the problem more.