2005 LE Elk permit #'s

THEY CAN TAKE THEIR WANNA-BE AGE OBJECTIVE AND SHOVE IT!!!

SOME OF THESE UNITS WILL BE TOTAL 'JUNK' WHEN THEY ACHIEVE THEIR OBJECTIVES,MARK MY WORD ON IT,BELIEVE ME OR BELIEVE THE DWR!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHERE THESE JOKERS COME FROM DREAMING UP THE AGE CLASS OBJECTIVES???
 
IF YOU LOOK AT NORTH CACHE!!!

THE OBJECTIVE IS NEAR WHAT THEY WANT,WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU ISSUE 4 MORE TAGS IN THAT UNIT???

3.5 AGE CLASS IN A LE UNIT,WHAT A FRICKEN JOKE!!!

I'M OFFERING MY BONUS POINTS TO THE BEST OFFER!!!

WHEN THEY GET THEIR AGE CLASSES WHERE THEY WANT THEM,THEY CAN KISS MY TAIL!!!

THE ONLY AGGITATED bobcat!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-05 AT 08:30PM (MST)[p]I dont matter for nonresidents anyway, the increase is less than the percentage of yanked tags to cover next years additional conservation tags, We got screwed both ways. In case you havent heard yet the March 15th Rac meeting the additional tags passed.
 
Bessy,

Do you really think that DON PEAY doesn't hold you dear and close to his heart? He just wants you to have a better chance of drawing!! Just think, with these new objects you may be able to take that 280 bull you have always dreamed of!!!!!!!!

The only bobcat wondering why Bessy thinks the DWR is Chitten in his litter box!!!!!
 
SOUTHRN-KALI-CAT

SINCE YOU'VE BEEN SUCKING UP CLOSE & PERSONAL WITH YOUR BUTTY c'ASS,I'VE DECIDED THAT SOUTHERN-KALI-CAT IS NOT THE PERFECT SOUTHERN-KALI NAME,THE PERFECT NAME THAT FITS YOU IS SOUTHERN KALIc'ASSY CAT!!!

YOU ASKED FOR IT,YOU GOT IT!!!

DON JUST RECIEVED ANOTHER 200.00 AND SOME OTHER DONATIONS!!!

WHAT HAVE YOU OFFERED BESIDES YOUR SOUTHERN-KALI MOUTH???

THE ONLY bobcat NOT TOLLERATING SOUTHERN-KALI-CATS OR ANY OF HIS SUCK-UP BUDDIES BULLSHIT!!!
 
bess,

I am thinking the way you do. The increase in tags does not bother me, it is that retarded 4.5 age class. Why on God's green earth does someone think that is good. Draw before the age classes are reached is my only suggestion.

SS, we are all over the board, but moderate increases on 1 to 1 ratio areas need some thinning. Other areas plus some low primitive success areas also can see increases. Leave the rifle in the rut till I am done.;-) Then they can make a statewide spike hunt because I certainly couldn't care less.

Schmalts, I did not, nor did I ever support this convention. Still don't. Opportunity was begged for and conservation groups got the tags. "Utards" did their best. What more can we do? These ideas are talked about and passed long before us "Utards" have any say. When we do get say, it is only a feel-good formality.
 
22% across the board is just right. except they are going the wrong way. they need to decrease the tags. 235 tags for the manti is way too many.
 
> SChmalts are you sure the
>Elk convention is a go??
>

I was told it was by a rac member, but maybe it was the vote for his area?? he sounded like it was a done deal though.
 
KTC,

I believe your rut hunt is safe! Moving the deer hunt off the 3rd week in October must be changed on the hill for this to happen and it did not pass this year!

As for the age objectives, I personally would like to see them at 5-6 years on most units. I would like to see more opportunities for primitive weapons where the success would be low. Allowing more hunters in an area would "increase opportunity" and actually decrease harvest. I can attest to that. Idaho and other states have proved it as well. I also believe that the state should have an area or 2 where a guy who wants to could have a reasonable chance at drawing out and killing a decent bull. IE. 3-4 year old areas. You DON'T have to apply for these units!!!!

My personal oppinions are of course just that. Oppinions. I believe this state is crazy to manage it's herds on 100% harvest mentality. These elk should not be a guarantee. I also believe that if the herds start to go to hell in a hurry that if sportsmen would unite they could change the age classes again! It seems they change things every year!

These elk are BIG MONEY for the groups like SFW etc. They can not afford to lose value for their 340+ tags they get each year!

Smile guy's, the draws are right around the corner and I think it is your turn to hunt! Have a great day!

Chad
 
Of the proposed 250+ increase in tags, 75-80 will go out of the draw pool and into the Convention tag pool. That means 25% of the gain to alleviate long draw times will be lost to non-bonus point use. As the permits increase so will the conservation tags and conventiontags, thus reducing draw odds and making the wait to draw longer.

I hope they never move the deer hunt for one sole reason: We hunters have a date to start the deer hunt by LAW. That carries some wieght and if it was changed to the descretion of the DWR someday they may choose not to start the hunt.

Anyone seen the real primative weapons success rates? I have heard that archery was around 75%, while muzzleloader went around 80%+ and rifle in the low 90s. But I haven't seen the documents.
 
Pack out,

You make some great points. I just flipped thru the "Rich Guy's", I mean the sportsmans voice. Page after page of Conservation animals that should of gone to the public. The chunk of tags they take each year is unbelievable. I guess when you run the wildlife board and the RAC process you can increase them as often and to whatever total you want. It sure is fun to see all those great animals killed year after year with no loss of bonus points or any waiting periods. I know, I know, it is all about conservation!

I have not seen the success percentages yet. Your totals sound about right. Hopefully they will post them on the DWR website soon. Maybe they already are.

Have a great day.

Chad
 
SS,

Hell, we can't start agreeing on anything. I won't have anyone to have some good, clean, arguments with.

I will say this; you have made some good arguments, however, I believe there are good arguments to retain the best quality in the west. I will admit your LE archery hunters contending with general hunters is not right. Maybe some longbow and flintlock seasons with lots of tags would work.;-)

I will also say that the public spoke out about bonus points and age objective 15 years ago, therefore I feel those who entered the system years ago should enjoy the sacrifices made by sitting out and the benefit of building points.

My opinion is the increases are modest and ok. I would have preferred they stay the same or slight increases, but they were not as bad as it could have been. While there are more total tags, the rut hunt has less tags. I hope this is my year.
 
I agree we have agruably the best quality in the west! According to some we can keep it AND increase tags. By simply building herds. I happen to think the herds can be expanded and the quality will not suffer as much as some would think. These elk are BIG MONEY to several influential? people in this state. The day the qaulity drops dramatically in this state things will change.! As for good arguements, I am sure we can come up with a few! I look forward to any and all good discussions!

Once again, Good luck to you in the draw. I got a feeling it is your year!

Chad
 
Is there any consistancy here?????.....Why would the fishlake remain the same when they are a 4-5 yr obj and it is currently at 6.8yrs. Then you go a couple units up to the wasatch mountains and there is a net increase of 56 with the same objective numbers and current age class bulls. What gives?

H75
 
Because they killed off all the cows in fl unit afew years back, so if they kill all the old bulls there will be no elk period :)
 
I was looking through the SFW web page as well. They were talking about how they are working into ID and gave away Pauns Deer tags at the first functions there. You UT guys are losing tags to other states functions. That bites. Not only are conservation tags leaving the normal Bonus point drawing they are leaving the state of UT to fund SFW in other states. Nice, you guys have 20 times the conservation tags as the rest of the states and they are also being used to fund other states functions.
 
You are starting to see the light! People wonder why Utahn's are so against SFW. It is solely due to the abuses of the conservation tags! They have abused it long enough. A lot of good has been done but at a great expense to the public! The beauty of it is they are FOR profit!

Chad
 
Many of those tags used to fund other states are actually landowner tags donated to the SFW by the land owners who get them.

I know that last year the Pahvant Land Owners Assoc. donated Pahvant Elk permits to the SFW banquet. Of the permits auctioned at the SFW Banquet, one went for $32,000. A second went for $28,000. A third tag went for $26,000. Which of these were conservation or landowner permits, I don't know.

These landowner permits are the other unsaid number going as compensation to the landowners for having the huge numbers of elk on their land. This is all well and good and I support the policy.

I'd just like to see the numbers on these permits though. It would be interesting to see how many folks are really hunting these units each year.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Thanks for the info Pete! I would love to see the actual permit numbers and a paper trail of ALL the money generated and where it was spent. Have a great day!

Chad
 
Pete,

I don't think the tags were "donated" by any land owner association. I think the tags were SOLD by these groups and then they kept a % commission for themselves.

The landowners got the rest and likely got more money out of them than they would have through the normal channels. Just another side of things that is turning Utah's wildlife management into BIG BUSINESS for a select few. Certain conservation groupls in Utah are turning into tag brokers-for better or worse, that's what's happening.
 
SS

Help us understand, you want alot more archery tags.That way the odds will go down for archers.I agree, then when the "average joe" see's the odds, he will put in for the archery tags.Then archery odds go up.Better yet you have a ton of guy's with archery tags who had to go buy a bow after they drew an archery tag!Wait now I don't think I agree.
You've drawn your LE elk tag.You shot a 3 1/2 year old bull.You brag about all the bulls you and your dad saw during your hunt.You were not hunting a 5-6 year old unit.The manti was at 7.1 in 04.So what you saw is not represenitive of a 5 1/2 year old unit.
When the dwr gets all the units to 4 1/2 year objective this great elk herd will look very diffrent from what you saw last year on the manti.From your picture you look young mid 20's so you don't know what things looked like 15 years ago when we started spike only on the manti.In 5 years or less the manti will look like your bull because at 4 1/2 year objective half of the elk harvested will be under 300 inches BC.Yes a few 350's now and then but not what you saw in 04.I have hunted the manti since 1974, sophmore in high school had to be 16 to hunt in those days.If big bulls are so easy to grow, why after 15 years of l.e. hunting have there been only 2 400 inch bulls killed off the manti?And it's only been in the last 4 years the first B&C bulls came off the manti?(375 inches net or better).The projected harvest on the manti exeeds the spike recrutment for the second year in a row.How long do you think it can stand that and maintain even the quality of the bull you killed.I hope I've gotten people to see what's comming.You said SFW won't let them shoot up the quality.Should they stop it?If they don't will you or anybody else on this site stop it.Will smalts and zim stop it, when the average bull scores 310 in utah will anyone give a crap about applying in ut.You read your sportsmen for the rich magazine, everyone complained about the tag increase's $280 for le $500 for premium.Over 5000 more people put in for le elk in ut this year than last year.Over 3100 put in for premium tags so what did reducing age objectivies do for drawing odds? nouthing!
When quality goes down are you going to demand price reductions?
Bad news coming for elk quality in Utah.
ktc I hope we draw this year there will be 300 more tags next year and the year after that until the average bull in ut is under 300 and the average age is 4.5

338boy
 
Hey,

I enjoyed our conversation on the phone a few weeks ago. I, like yourself, have seen both ends of the quality spectrum. I like it better now than 5, 10, or 15 years ago. Even if I only get one crack at 'em.

I hope you draw also. It is sad, but I think we can see what is going to happen in the end. I certainly do not agree with everything SFW does, but I hope they can preserve elk quality and grow some deer.

How do you know how many have applied? I guess I would be curious to know how many put in for rifle rut this year versus last? I would bet my odds are not better either. My only saving grace is max points.

I hope bess draws too. He needs a tag too before quality is "shot" down. This is the year to draw fellars.
 
I changed units for the very reasons you stated. I feel as though I need to get through the system. This year. I did not put in for the Wasatch, but thought hard about it. I would rather hunt a 330 there now than spindly young 6 points in a few years.

I am speechless. I cannot understand 4.5. What a waste. I hate to say it, but 10 and 11 point people are going to take it in the back side.

His initials are 3B. ;-)

After I spoke to you, you are one of those who deserve a chance this year. 25 years is a long wait. I know for me it has been long.
 
338boy, i must have been thinking of someone else. sorry. i may be wrong here also, but didn't your son shoot a great big bull off the manti two years ago. what was the score on that thing again?
 
elkantlers

James Gilson,southeast rac chair,sfw board member,turkey fed member, x elk foundaton member but support RMEF, NRA,Married to the most perfect woman I know, 4 kids of my own, also raising two of my sisters kids(she died)Brian Gilson is my son he killed the bull you refer to 416 gross 402 4/8 net typical.
Will that do ya?

338boy

now who are you?
 
338,

How are you today? It sounds as though you need to take a deep breath. You are going to blow a gasket.

You ask about the more archery permit numbers. I tell you that with increased pressure you can allow more people to hunt with out sacrificing harvest. Utah needs to get out of the 100% success mentality. If people want a good hunt with the "Chance" of killing a good bull they could do a bow hunt. They don't "have" to buy a bow. They "get" to buy a bow with reduced odds of success. They also "get" to hunt in August and early September before the rut while rifle hunters "get" the peak of the rut.

You talk about recruitement. Increased LE tags has NOTHING to do with recruitement. Fix that problem at Your RAC. Cut spike tags period. I am all for that. Recruitement is indeed an issue. How about we shut down the spike hunt all together. Then we could hunt LE in greater numbers.

I agree with you that what I saw this year was not a representation of a 4.5 year old unit. I am pretty sure I never said it was. You might want to reread my post.

Obviously the overall trophy quality will take some what of a hit. But, It will still be better than when you started applying in 197?. If the mighty SFW keeps it up no one will be able to hunt anyways. All the tags will go as Conservation tags.

As to my age I am 32 years old and I have been down on the Manti since I could walk. I have seen the herds grow from a few elk to what it is today. It is truly impressive. I think sacrificing a little quality to allow more Utahn's to hunt is worth it. Is 4.5 the right number? I think it is a bit low personally. I would like to see it at 5.5. But then again I did not sit on the RAC or the Elk Committee and decide all that. Any other questions? I would love to discuss this further with you. Have a great day!

Chad
 

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