Next Years Bulls??

[antlerrick]

This is just an opinion that I have and wanted to know what everyone thinks about it.
I think with the quality of the bulls still out there, next year should be a better year than this year due to the fact that with all the feed still in the mountains, the elk will go into the winter in better shape than ever, and with an average spring next year, they should get off to a better start and possibly grow even bigger sets of headgear.
There are still a lot of bigger bulls that are already broken up this year and probably will be passed over by most hunters, so we have some good seed for next year.
It's hard to imagine a better crop of big bulls, but why not?

 

[muzzle]

I was just talking to my brother about that yesterday. Yes I think next year (Assuming good water this winter) will be even better than this year. Can you imagine what may come out of this state if that happens?? Wow!

 

[cantkillathing]

It might be good for one more year, but I know for the San Juan unit we are going to go down hill, we have no cows, our unit has some good bulls, and there were some hogs taken this year, but it is sad that there are 15 bulls fighting for on cow, kid you not, the bulls are killing each other, antlers breaking, too much testostrone.

 

[WARBIRDUM]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-05 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]Before we get to excited lets see what age class of elk get taken on the new late rifle hunt.I think most will be letting the lead fly broken antlers or not during that hunt.And if the success rate is better than the DWR thought it would be,it will diminish the great herd of mature bulls we have now.
Just my two cents on this subject.I do agree it could be as good next year as it was this year if everything works out.If a slaughter takes place on big broken bulls that people thought hunters would pass it will not be as good next year because we will be losing to many mature bulls.I still cant understand adding additional tags during a late hunt when in fact the system is not broken now.If you have drawn a limited elk tag get back in line and try again but those of us who have not we want the same qaulity as the guys who have drawn.I hope I am proved wrong and these late hunts will not hurt the qaulity of future elk hunts to much.

 

[antlerrick]

I am also concerned about the number of permits that have been added. I feel some of the units can handle the additional tags, but it is a fine line on some of the others. I just hope they monitor the success and numbers closely so as to not lose what we currently have.

 

[ktc]

I hope you get drawn next year BIRD. The future of Utah elk are at a crossroads. You are right and I have argued this for a year now. Why fix what was not broke? My concern is not so much the November guys as it is the DWR truly deciding to reach age objectives. If the Pahvant averages 8 year old bulls there has to be a huge increase of tags to bring this number down. I hope the DWR gets some sense before this actually happens.

If human intervention does not ruin things, then next year could be another great year with state records being shattered and many hunters going home with the bull of a life time.

 

[Antler1]

The unit that I apply for is now a 4 to 5 year age objective. We did see three elk taken that were probably 3 to 4 years old during the rifle hunt. I am just hoping that enough of these bulls got shot to bring down the average age so they don't double the tags again.

 

[B_F_E]

I'm very optimistic, judging from whats been taken so far.

 

[antlerrick]

Hey B_F_E, they've taken some smokers off of your backyard, huh? Did you get up and check any of them out?
Did you hear of anything good coming off of the *lake side of the valley?

 

[rutnbuck]

The bigest factor I think Will be the Winter!! How tough is it going to be. The drought took its toll on the desert units for sure. From what I have seen this year and I have seen a lot. They won't all get killed. And what some brusiers!!
For Next year.
Rut

 

[Gator]

they need a mangement type hunt on the San Juan to get rid of some of those huge 5 points, that stay 5 points, I don't know how they can do it but it sure needs to happen, You see more cows out in Eastland and Peterson point then you do on the mountain.

 

[ktc]

Does anyone know, when the tooth data is returned, how do they figure someone who does not take an animal into the age objective? Is this permit not figured in? Is the age entered as zero? Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Antler1]

The way I understand it they add the age of all the bulls harvested then divide it by the number of bulls harvested. If a permit is not filled it is not figured into the average.

 

[ktc]

Uuugghhh! I hope you are wrong Antler1. This logic seems retarded, but what would one expect. Seems to me a better way would be to add the age of harvested bulls and divide by total permits. As an extreme example; if 10 tags are issued and one guy gets a 10 year old, the average age is 10, the objective is 5 then a bunch of tags would be issued with some numbers not represented accurately.

 

[WARBIRDUM]

Ktc,
I hope you can draw as well next year it is your turn to have a chance at putting a nice one on the wall.I will ask Ryan when he found out about his elks tooth data from 2004 and let you know.Have you heard of any monsters being taken on the muzzleloader hunts?E-Mail me if you have.
Thanks.

 

[rutnbuck]

Ktc
The tooth sample is different then the harvest data.
There for of 5 bulls sampled 2 were two year old 1 was 3year old and 2 were 6.
Then u have a avrage age. Then they take the harvaste stats and convert by number of bulls taken. On limited entry all hunters are surveyed
your turn buddy hope ya draw a big one.
Rut

 

[Antler1]

ktc,
in order for the average age to be 10 all 10 harvested bulls would have to be 10 year old bulls. I would imagine that this first year the average age of the bulls will be about the same as the last three to four years. I,m probably in the same situation as you I have 12 pts and hope they don't unload a bunch of tags and when we finally draw were hunting a bunch of 340 bulls.

 

[ktc]

Thanks guys. BIRD, I have not heard of anything but will keep my ears open. We are going next year buddy. Even if I have to 2nd mortgage the house for a conservation tag. Not! Keep in contact with me BIRD so we can figure this out. Maybe you can do a duel application with my wife and pick up 2 more points for bugle in duty on easier ground. She has 12 points.

Seems like the concensus of the 3000 people with 10-13 points wants to wait for their turn. I like your attitude Antler I hope you draw as well. If we could just convince someone to use a true preference system we would be in fat city and out of the system with a bull on the wall.

I just cannot help but think the youngest bulls taken on any unit will at least equal age objectives.

 

[archery01]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-05 AT 04:22PM (MST)[p]Antler1

All bulls harvested would not have to be 10 years to average 10, they would of course, but is not required. They take all ages, add them up and divide by # of animals harvested. They do also take into account success rate. Look @ boulder in 2004, average age was almost 2 over objective but tags were not increased, because of lower success rate. I contacted dwr last year and asked if success plays roll in determining tag quanities, they told me yes. This year I think age may go down slightly if success is high due to increased # of tags on certain areas. What is wrong with chasing 340 bulls, I do see some of your point, but do you have any idea what % of hunters shoot 350+ bulls, I am sure it is not a great %. Chasing 340 bulls is not my concern I am worried that If they continue increasing tags that we will have to wait 15 years and a 340 will be very rare. Just my thoughts.