Need help.

[Jake_Sorensen]

Ok here is my situation, after scouting all summer in our usual stomping grounds(north slope of the Uintas) were we have taken several elk over the last 10 years, this year we just didn't seem to see alot of elk, after talking to a couple people that had been up a week before the hunt started that the owner of some private property had his ranch hands do drives around his property line on horses to try and push the elk over into his property so Saturday morning my job was to walk the fense line(as my bummed ankle couldn't take a whole lot of abuse) as I walked I noticed the owner of the private property had alot of people patroling his fence line, and I didn't seem as much of a keep people out but more of a keep the elk in job. So yesterday as I hiked through the trees I noticed fabric softener sheets hanging from trees every 150-250 yards for about 3 miles, so needless to say all I have seen so far this hunt is 5 moose, 18 deer and 3 or 4 cow elk, so here is my dilema I'm not asking for honey holes(but if you want to give me one I'll be happy to take it ) I have a friend that really needs the meat and it is also his first year hunting I would like to get him a shot at a 3 or 4 point bull(he would just rather let a spike live to be a bigger bull. I've been trying my darndest to atleast get him a shot at a bull but can't find any, if anyone could help us out with, it would be appreciated. You can post here or pm me we would also be willing to split the meat for any help. Thanks,

Jake

 

[u0143779]

That really bites.......it is hard enough to find animals on public land then to have the private land owners do something like this. I have had no success either, still looking!
Kelly

 

[Jake_Sorensen]

Ya, I really didn't beleive the guy at first when he told me he watched the guys drive through on horses to push the elk into the private property then after hiking my a$$ off only to find old tracks and fabric softener sheets all over the place it really pisses me off, then some of the ranch hands hear that someone shot an elk across the fence and drug it back over, they came darting out in their Dodges wanting to search our camps and trucks to see if it was us we watched them go camp to camp searching for who did it, the guy was a straight up #####, before he left our camp his last words were "I'll warn you right now if we see anybody across the fence we will not hesitate to shoot you", so I asked what if I shoot one and it crosses the fence and his words were "then you better just keep hunting", its freaking rediculous just to hunt on their land unguided they charge $5000 per gun, and you have to stay out of a certain section called Herd Hollow, to go into herd hallow guided you have to pay a flat fee of something like $8,000, then you have to pay more if it scores over 340 or something like that. And aren't a CWMU, so I can't even try and draw out to hunt there.

 

[AZWALKER]

Ahhh... the commercialization of hunting. Isn't it a beautiful sight!

To see The Majestic Rocky Mountain Elk reduced to a commodity to be bought and sold. To be controlled not by the people but by the man with the most land. To be threatened in your hunt camp with bodily harm if you try to retreive your prize. Isn't America becoming a great place for the middle class outdoorsman?

Isn't it amazing what greed can do to a person? This land owner has decided to get is piece of the pie by hording it all for himself. He says "I'm a property owner... I want the Elk on MY property so I can make money for ME." What a sad person. He probably figures.. What a great way to pay my property taxes, it won't take away from my beef profits, the Elk won't be competeing with my cattle because my cattle are all on the NATIONAL FORESTS this time of year.

I hope things change for the better before my 8 and 4 year olds have to see this kind of blatant greed.

I have NO problems with property owners, cattle ranchers or those who use their property for hunting. What I do have a MAJOR problem with is someone who abuses others by hording animals, threatening hunters and not even letting a guy retreive his animal if it jumps a fence. That is unbeleivable.

I would NEVER suggest putting limits on property rights but something needs to be done about this. This is abuse of the system... plain and simple. I know that if I owned a large amount of property and a guy shot a bull and it jumped my fence and he came and talked to me about it.... shoot, I'd go and help him retrieve it, I'd probably let him hang it in my barn.

What in Gods name is wrong with people these days? Can someone please explain because I'm not getting it!


Donnie

 

[jkhunterid]

You would think they would be guilty of harassing wildlife, not to mention littering with the dryer sheets.

 

[crextin]

Sorry to hear about that. I'd report your findings to the FWP and see what they say.

Nothing may come of it.

I have run into this kind of crap too.

 

[n2chukar]

Exactly

I would recommend you immediately contact the Department of Wildlife. have them prosecuted for littering and for harassmenet of game and potentially hunter harassement. It is bad enough when the anti's harass hunters, but to do so for commercial greed is atrocious. Don't back off and be aggressive!

 

[DallanC]

Haha now people dont have to worry about a hunt being "high fenced" ... its probably cheaper to hire immigrants to hold hands around a property to spook the critters back on than it is to put up a high fence.

 

[AZWALKER]

Well, I can see why people get a low opinion of canned hunts. I think it promots this kind of B.S.

I mean if a guy decides to make his living from people hunting on his land, it puts pressure on him to make sure he has animals on his property. A couple bad years and the next thing you know he's pushing animals onto his property, then he's hanging dryer sheets. Whats next... herding the Elk up, darting them and tying them to a tree? And if we as hunters want better enforcment, our tag prices go up for the added man power. I'd just as soon see a land owner not let anybody onto his property instead of this crap, at least they aren't pushing animals onto their land.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. I just want to see my kids be able to hunt without paying some crooked landowner 8 grand to do it.

Donnie

 

[COSA]

If he threatened to shoot you, you should have called the authorities. I could be wrong, but that is a felony. The other camps could have backed up your story. I bet those ranch hands would not be so willing to participate in that garbage next year if their buddy was sitting in jail.

 

[Oldshed]

Yes.. this is messed up.

Just dont lump all landowners into this guys category.

I know of guys that have spent thousands on cleaning out water tanks etc, etc to the benefit of elk and deer and let the public come and go as they please.

that being said, If you see someone abusing the land put a stop to it before the gate ends up locked.

Oldshed, in AZ where there are no landowner tags. but maybe there should be.

 

[elkantlers]

Jake_Sorensen, if you don't contact the fish and game dept immediatly this kind of stuff will continue in you area. whining on MM will get nothing. notifying the authorities is a better use of your time.

 

[Jake_Sorensen]

I notified the Forest Ranger's there and called the DWR today, I was told that unless I can provide proof that the ranch hands are going out and pushing the elk over into the private property and that they are the ones putting dryer sheets in the trees that there is nothing they can do, and that basically the best they can do is go and slap their hands, as for the getting a shot elk after it has crossed the fence they said that is up to the land owner, and with the being threatened if we cross the fence the Forest Ranger I talked to was better than the DWR the Forest Ranger said they would look into it and the DWR, said well you better listen to what they say then. I'm not simply whining, the biggest thing I'm asking for is some direction to a new area to help expose my friend to something better than what he experienced this weekend, I know its alot to ask someone to add a couple other hunters to an area that they have been going to for years, but I have done it in the past, because I believe it is part of hunting, My friend already has a bad taste in his mouth for hunting as a result of this last weekends results, I am with AZ_walker, I already feel bad about my friends experience but I have assured him that there is only a few like that and I sure as hell want my kids to be able to experience the things I have, I know that the experiences I have had hunting with my dad, grandpa, uncles and brothers have had alot more influence on me than almost anything else and I want to share those with other people.

 

[huntnet]

Boy do I hate landowners like this.
What some of the outfitters will do in Arizona is they visit all the water holes in an area, except the ones they are going to use. While visiting these water holes they spray cougar piss all around area. The elk will not visit this water hole and will go to the ones with out the cougar piss and where the guide has placed hunters.
Now can't say I condone this action but it would be a ball doing it. Get yourself a balloon launcher made. With the right launcher and the right slope you could send a cougar piss filled balloon a good distance. Before next season I would scout the border of this property and make sure enough cougar piss balloons happen to land in the private land that no right-minded elk will stay in the area. Boy wouldn't that be fun!!
It would also be helpful to here where this property is and who the landowner is so the word can get out on this jerk.
It is not a good practice for landowners to make threats to shoot someone these days. Number one you can not shoot someone unless your life is in danger or see another person in a life treating position. Then you can take deadly force. If the land owner shoots someone that is just on private land he will be someones girl friend at the point of the mountain when found guilty. Has a good chance to loose his land in a lawsuit.
If an animal is wounded you must first contact the landowner for permission to go find your elk. Most landowners I have worked with or guided for will allow you to get the animal if it was shot on the public ground then crossed the fence. They usually will send someone with you to verify the fact that it did jump the fence. If you cant and it shows you shot the elk on the private land you will be talking with the sheriff. But these are reasonable landowners not the jerks.
The DWR officer you spook with should have given you the laws of what can and can not be done in the situation. Then made contact with the landowner to make sure he knows the law as well.
As for the boys sent to search camps, they do not have the authority to search private property or your private camp.

As for a place to hunt, send me an email and I will send you a contact number you can call, I will give you a few places to try.
[email protected] Have not scouted these areas this year but have always found elk in them.

Good luck

 

[baldbull]

that's the attitude I like to see, make sure you shoot those baloons at night or you might get your A#$ kicked if they see it. make sure that next time someone makes a threat about shooting or injuring someone there, let him know that the sherrif will be up shortly to speak with him. I've learned some things about Utah hunting and fishing, the biggest is don't go to the DWR with a serious problem because they won't have the man power to help out unless you are fishing or hunting up by Strawberry Resevoir(their favorite hang out). go through the sherrif because they have a little more "authority" in people's minds and they will actually look into things.

 

[AZWALKER]

Oldshed,

I know that all landowners aren't like that brother, I'm just frustrated with the ones that are. The most frustrating thing is how commercialized things are getting. We've actually got some pretty darn good land owners here in AZ, I just hope they stay that way.

Donnie

 

[DallanC]

What you really need to do here is post the name of the landowner and where the ground is. If they are giving hunters crap like that, people can give them crap back the other 51 weeks a year.


-DallanC

 

[predator]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-05 AT 12:17PM (MST)[p]1-800-662-DEER. If this is a CWMU, that is absolutely illegal. Hazing animals is illegal, searching camps without a warrant or game warden present is illegal.

A guy on the Wasatch-Cache once put a gate up at his property line. The only problem was it gated a FS road. We called the sheriff and together we pulled the gate down. It ended up in civil court and he lost. Before it ever went to court he lost his rights as a CWMU.

Keep shakin' those trees, Jake, go over the warden's head, go directly to THE sheriff, call the local paper. Do whatever you can to make it PUBLIC what this guy is doing illegally.

He can't do a damn thing about you telling the truth!

 

[Jake_Sorensen]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-05 AT 03:38PM (MST)[p]Well the good news is I'm an Escrow Officer for a Title Company, so just for the hell of it today I decided to see how much property he has and where his fence runs so I started looking at plats and meets and bounds and different maps and it seems to me like his fence covers a TON and when I say a TON I mean like a TON more land than it should. So I have some calls in to a couple places and am going to be getting some more info, I'll let yall know how it goes as for telling yall, all of the info, I'll let you know after I find some more info out. And as far as I can tell they are only a CWMU for Moose not Elk or Deer, which seems odd to me because they have a ton of Elk and Deer on their land.

 

[Tuffbucker]

Sound like you need to take BOBCATBESSY with you hunting. He'd give them a high-country tune-up!! Next year you should try to get these knuckle-heads on video doing this kind of stuff. Heck, let me know where its going on, and I'll spend some time up there trying to get the goods on these guys.....

Heck, I'll even lend you my waterballoon launcher!!

SCOTT

 

[bobcatbess]

THAT KIND OF TRASH AIN'T WELCOME IN MY CAMP!!!

NEXT TIME YOU SEE THAT ARROGANT PRICK ASK HIM IF HE'S EVER HAD A CAMPFIRE TUNE-UP???

HE COMES INTO MY CAMP RUNNING HIS PIE-HOLE HE'LL WISH HE'D OF STAYED ON HIS OWN SIDE OF THE FENCE!!!

LET ME KNOW WHERE THEM DOWNY TOWELLS ARE,I'LL BE THE VERY FIRST TO TAKE EM DOWN & YOU CAN TELL HIM THE OLE cat FROM THE COVETED REGION DONE IT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat NOT TOLLERATING A LOWLIFE WANNA-BE COWBOY HERDING WILD GAME TO HIS ADVANTAGE!!!

 

[buttshot]

I have hunted the north slope a couple times, closer to Spirit Lake though, sure would be interesting to know where this prick camoflaged as a rancher has his front gate , or even any of his fences that are on public property. I could spend a lot of time pulling down fences and using a gps to provide this information to the forest service.BLM doesn't like it much when arseholes fence off public property , pretending it is a mistake.
Come on Sorenson, tell us where this is happening, give us good directions to the evil landowners area!!!!!!!!

 

[Gator]

NEXT year you really should do the video thing, it would really do the trick on his herding elk from public land to his ranch.
If you ever got one of those cowboys drunk and he told ya that the boss ordered them too and you just happen to tape it, You could end up with lifetime hunting rights to his ranch, LMAO

 

[Jake_Sorensen]

Beleive me by the end of the month you all will know where this guys land is, I am working with an attorney at my office and he has advised me to hold off on telling everyone where his property is for until we have investigated a couple things.

 

[Longun]

BOBCAT--YER KILLING ME!! GO GET EM! SIC EM! YOUR MY KIND OF CAT!!
Jake I'm with you 100%. He would'nt pull that ##### in my camp. And I do respect private Landownership, but when they do that its B.S.

 

[DonV]

Good job Jake, I was thinking about suggesting looking into his boundaries, and you have the ideal job to do it!

What a S O B

I hate stories like this. Never been to UT so I cannot help, sorry you went through this and nail that guy please.

As soon as you can please post some info on thie guy or PM me, I cannot do much from here in Ohio but I will call everyone I can and complain, one more voice bugging everyone possible cant hurt.

I am even worked up now.

Good luck

 

[dutch]

Video camera.
dutch
" Man who excels at putting worm on hook is Master Baiter"

 

[muzzle]

Go gettum Jake! We are all with ya. Tell you what though, if some prick EVER threatened me like that, i'd make sure he knew that he or anyone ever decided to shoot at me he had better not miss cause he wouldn't get a second chance and I don't miss!

 

[AZWALKER]

Good job Jake, I wish there was someone I knew that could help you. Sounds like MM is truly makin' a difference out there!

Great bunch of hunters here, great bunch of hunters! True sportsman!

Donnie

 

[Jake_Sorensen]

It was actually kinda funny my friend that was hunting (the 1st timer)is a Polynesian so he is a big kid with a short temper and it was hard to get him from wanting put the guys head through a tree, I've been trying to work on things in between my free time today and so far there are some spots were his fence is 2 miles from where it is supposed to be. So after I have our attorney go through everything (benifit of working with one I get law work done for free) I will be sending anyone that wants a map one and we will all be crossing the fence to hunt and there isn't a dam they will be able to do about it. I'll let yall know in a couple days.