RED CLOUD LOOP

buttshot · Oct 12, 2005

Hunted the lower end of the loop last weekend, put about 15 miles behind me and with all the ups and downs, about 8,000 feet vertically. Seen 1 doe, 1 chipmunk, about a dozen pine hens that sceered the chit outta me and my wife, 1 bunny rabbit and a single mouse. no elk to be seen. Everyone I talked to said the elk are non existent. Makes sense too, only seen 4 partie's leaving on Sunday with a critter in their trucks.
Any suggestions on where to look this weekend?

South_slope · Oct 13, 2005

Yes, don't try the Hell's canyon area either. Only 1 raghorn leaving the mountian that we seen. Talked to the F&G at the check station in Mt home and they said they had heard of 2 bulls (not seen all day).

There has to be a balance between once in a lifetime and just happy to see some cows.

bobcatbess · Oct 13, 2005

South_slope

I WARNED YOU IT WAS BAD!!!

YOU CAME WAY TO FAR WEST!!!

I MENTIONED THE DWR WOULD BE SET UP WHERE THERE PEN WOULDN'T RUN OUT OF INK!!!

YOU SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES DIDN'T YOU???

THERE WERE LESS BULLS TAKEN THAN I'VE EVER SEEN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHY YOU WERE THIS FAR WEST???

muzzle · Oct 13, 2005

Maybe them dern ingins gotum again! They messed my hunt up last year above moon lake. They dun caught & sold 2000 head of elk from that area. Like a ghost town after that. Maybe that's what they done out there?

Hawkk33 · Oct 14, 2005

Mr Muzzle, I believe the correct albeit bigotted spelling is injun?

How could they have captured and sold that many head of elk unless they had the rights to? Would like some more information as to how all that happened? Which area (state, unit etc)

2000 head seems like alot to me, hell it would take out alot of the unit that I hunt Eastern Oregon. I had the same problem in reverse (some elk to hunt and alot of out of staters/in staters driving roads)

Smokepole · Oct 14, 2005

I took my son in near there for the second weekend of the youth elk hunt. Figured to find a bunch of elk and no one else to bump into while hunting. I got the second part right, no one else. Missed on the first part, only a couple cows and a few tracks. Did see a few deer (one nice buck) and ten mt. goats up in the cliffs. Had a great time with my son though.

Smokepole

muzzle · Oct 14, 2005

Hawk33, The area I was talking about is in Utah. (aka The South Slope) There are indian reservations all over in the area. Once the bullets start flying, the elk head straight down to the res. (Safety zone for those buggers) Anyway, from time to time, the tribe will round up like cattle a bunch of elk and sell them to private ranches around the west. They can do it because the elk were on THEIR land. They can do what ever they want with the elk on THEIR land. They have been doing it for years! Anyway, yes, 2000 head taken out does wonders for the heards in that area. I wish their was some way we could stop it but no one seems to want to do anything about it?? Oh well. such is life I guess.

Hawkk33 · Oct 14, 2005

Muzzle- with me being a native, the thing I would do is capitalize on that very fact and sell tags to the Utah hunters who want to pay to hunt those elk once they seek refuge on the reservation.

I would get with the local wildlife/hunting groups like RMEF or whoever and setup a meeting with the Tribe and get your concerns out in the open.

I would think they would have wildlife biologists on their staff making sure the herds are protected and not too many elk are being captured and sold.

Just my .02 cents

ktg · Oct 14, 2005

Reminds me of several years ago when a bunch of tribal members with tribal tags were killing elk in the book cliffs, OFF the reservation. Nothing was done about it.

2_Point · Oct 14, 2005

Hawk- I will vouch for what has been said concerning the capture and selling of Utah's wild elk off of the South Slope unit. One member in our hunting party taped the Tribes herding elk on foot, horseback and with the aide of a helicopter. Then ran the elk off of National Forest, down onto the reservation, and into the pens. The pens were within a couple miles from one of my other friend's ranch. Then elk were then sold, some going overseas.

The local TV news (channel 5 KSL) did a story on it. Not all tribes are bad, but this is a horrible thing to do.

muzzle · Oct 14, 2005

My understanding is that it is for this very reason the the south slope is an any bull unit in the first place. The F&G can't manage the heards out there because they can't control what the tribes do once the elk hit thier reservation. What good would it do to try and manage a heard that may or may not even be there next year. Personally I think it's a pile of crap. Just because the elk pass through their ground does not mean that they are theirs. They belong to all of us and in my opinion this type of thing is nothing more than stealing from you and me. No wonder it's so hard to kill a good bull out ther. All the good ones never come back from the res. Tons of people know this is happening but nothing is ever done about it?? I guess they don't want to start a war? All I know is the tribes are making big bucks off those elk and it's not right. Even Utah hunter don't seem to make much fuss??

striderX2 · Oct 14, 2005

What a bunch of Jackasses !!!
The entire state of Utah is home to less than 56,000
elk and the Ute tribe rounded up 4%, or roughly half the estimated population of the South Slope, and sold them ? Where is the video ? Maybe the reason you aren't seeing elk is because it is TOO WARM for them to be out and moving or the haven't moved down, let alone being rounded up and sold. But then again, because you suck as hunters it must be someone elses fault, RIGHT !!!!!!!!

BlackTimber · Oct 14, 2005

Relax there strider. This has been going on for years. It has been well documented. Yet it goes on. I can't say that I have seen a chopper rounding up elk but the Utes do round up the elk and ship them off. Mostly during the winter months. The Res. is their wintering ground so a lot come down on their own and once they cross the boundry they are rounded up.

As for not doing anything about it??? It has to do with federal law. It's kind off like you just have to learn to deal with it cuz it ain't gonna change.

I don't hunt the South Slope. I hunt the North side and I'm into elk all the time. Of course them Wyoming boys are killing all the good bulls on that side too, but that is a different story.

Hawkk33 · Oct 15, 2005

good information from you folks I have a better idea of what your are talking about now.

I can't speak for what other folks are doing but I know what I would do. Protecting resources for everyone is the avenue I would take.

Seems anti native to sell elk like they were cattle. I know it goes against what I was taught about wildlife and our relation to them.

grizzmoose · Oct 16, 2005

This thing has been news out there for a while. You all are right saying nothing can be done about it. The Utes do in fact use horses, ATV's, and a helicopter to push the elk into their pens. The helicopter pilot is a guy they bring in from Australia that has a great deal of experience using his copter to heard sheep. It is unfortunate that they can do this, but they can. It IS legal for them. This has been looked into by local officials including the FBI branch in Vernal. It was concluded by the two agents there that they only legal penalty they could pursue would be the illegal transportation of live game across state borders. Most of these elk were being sold to game ranches in Colorado and Texas. I believe that the tribe was penalized for the transportation, but I think they have somehow found a loophole to get around it. I dont think they do this much anymore because of the all the negative publicity they received.

-Travis

muzz · Oct 16, 2005

I think its time to play cowboys and indians again. Thats bull and the chicken ##### state wont do anything about it.

Hawkk33 · Oct 16, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-05 AT 12:06PM (MST)[p]What exactly do you mean by that Muzz? Please tell me what you are willing to do?

Playing cowboys and indians again that is so moronic I can't believe I am responding to it. LOL

Is that you John Wayne?

muzz · Oct 16, 2005

What the hell gives them the right to run our elk on there land and sell them? You want to tell me that? That is bull crap. They think they can do what they want and thats wrong! Those our our elk and everyone who lives here. They need to be stopped.

South_slope · Oct 23, 2005

Your right we are all a bunch of crappy hunters that don't know what we are doing. It is much better when you can drive around in the ceders just below the forest boundry fence and shoot them from the window. Then take them to the butcher shop and never pick up the meat, or hang it in a tree in the yard and let the dogs eat them.
The part that bothers me more than the elk round up(the guys from New Zeland that were contracted) is that they are selling cow tags for $200 and running the season from the middle of November until some time in January. The California hunters love it. It is like going to Jackson hole and shooting them on the feeding ground.

Raised on the Rez and can keep going all day,
South Slope

:-(

WapitiBob · Oct 23, 2005

Hire a fence builder from texas and run a 10 footer all the way across. They have lots of experience.

South_slope · Oct 24, 2005

What bothers me even more is the fact that the state is required to give them deer and elk tags for the book cliffs, moose tags for the uintas and the wasatch and units, and mt goat tags that are all off the reservation.

buttshot · Oct 24, 2005

very interesting

muzzle · Oct 24, 2005

Like many have said. Maybe it is a lost cause but.. maybe it isn't. Knowing how the right publicity seems to find a way to get results, maybe if ENOUGH hunters and sportsman got together and called bull on this practice in enough forums and avenues, maybe the ball of change would get rolling. We all know it happens, but has anyone ever united to put a stop to this? If they have, I have never heard of it. You can't tell me that if ENOUGH people got together and blasted the F&G and other officials that they couldn't put enough heat on the tribe to either stop doing it or come up with another option. AS someone who loves to hunt elk out there, I would help fence that damn thing if it came to that.