DonVathome
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How did guys do? Is there a worry about snow pushing elk out of huntable areas and/or getting around on foot being near impossible?
Any input is appreciated
Any input is appreciated
Utah late hunts
- Thread starter DonVathome
- Start date
B
bobcatbess
Guest
DonV
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE LATE BULL HUNTS???
THERES NOT MUCH SNOW YET THIS YEAR!!!
GET AROUND ANYWHERE THERE IS GAME!!!
NOTHINGS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THEM 'WUSSY' ELK THEY'VE BEEN LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL ON THESE LATE HUNTS!!!
TO EXPLAIN IT FOR THE FEW THAT WILL FLY INTO A RAGE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT ME ADVERTISING SECRETS ABOUT THE LATE HUNTS,WELL WHAT I'M REFERRING TO IS:THE BIG BULLS GROUP BACK UP AFTER THE RUT,THEY BECOME BUDDIES ONCE AGAIN,THEY ARE RUN DOWN,TIRED,BEAT TO HELL,SKINNY,IT'S LIKE GO AHEAD AND SHOOT ME,PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!!! (LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!)
ktc POSTED A THREAD ASKING IF THE LATE HUNTS WERE ETHICAL!!!
IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO DECIDE!!!
THESE HUNTS ARE DEFINATELY UN-ETHICAL!!!
I TOOK SEVERAL MONTHS TO DECIDE,I LOOKED AT EVERY ANGLE,EVERY PERSPECTIVE,I SPENT MONTHS STUDYING THE SITUATION,IT WAS A HARD DECISION,I DECIDED IT WAS UN-ETHICAL TO KILL ALL THEM RUN DOWN TROPHY BULLS THAT LATE IN THE YEAR!!!
THESE BULLS RUN THEIRSELVES COMPLETELY DOWN DURING THE RUT LIKE NO OTHER ANIMAL(EVEN MORE THAN B_F_E_ & Moosie!!!)ASK THEM TWO IF IT WOULD BE ETHICAL!!!
THERE WASN'T VERY MANY PEOPLE THAT FIGURED THE SUCCESS WOULD BE SO GREAT ON TROPHY BULLS DURING THE LATE HUNTS,THEY WERE WRONG!!!
IT'S NOT A TROPHY HUNT,IT'S A TROPHY SHOOT!!!
THE ONLY bobcat TAKING HIS TIME TO MAKE THE DECISION,IT'S UN-ETHICAL & FLAT ASS WRONG!!!
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE LATE BULL HUNTS???
THERES NOT MUCH SNOW YET THIS YEAR!!!
GET AROUND ANYWHERE THERE IS GAME!!!
NOTHINGS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THEM 'WUSSY' ELK THEY'VE BEEN LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL ON THESE LATE HUNTS!!!
TO EXPLAIN IT FOR THE FEW THAT WILL FLY INTO A RAGE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT ME ADVERTISING SECRETS ABOUT THE LATE HUNTS,WELL WHAT I'M REFERRING TO IS:THE BIG BULLS GROUP BACK UP AFTER THE RUT,THEY BECOME BUDDIES ONCE AGAIN,THEY ARE RUN DOWN,TIRED,BEAT TO HELL,SKINNY,IT'S LIKE GO AHEAD AND SHOOT ME,PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!!! (LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!)
ktc POSTED A THREAD ASKING IF THE LATE HUNTS WERE ETHICAL!!!
IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO DECIDE!!!
THESE HUNTS ARE DEFINATELY UN-ETHICAL!!!
I TOOK SEVERAL MONTHS TO DECIDE,I LOOKED AT EVERY ANGLE,EVERY PERSPECTIVE,I SPENT MONTHS STUDYING THE SITUATION,IT WAS A HARD DECISION,I DECIDED IT WAS UN-ETHICAL TO KILL ALL THEM RUN DOWN TROPHY BULLS THAT LATE IN THE YEAR!!!
THESE BULLS RUN THEIRSELVES COMPLETELY DOWN DURING THE RUT LIKE NO OTHER ANIMAL(EVEN MORE THAN B_F_E_ & Moosie!!!)ASK THEM TWO IF IT WOULD BE ETHICAL!!!
THERE WASN'T VERY MANY PEOPLE THAT FIGURED THE SUCCESS WOULD BE SO GREAT ON TROPHY BULLS DURING THE LATE HUNTS,THEY WERE WRONG!!!
IT'S NOT A TROPHY HUNT,IT'S A TROPHY SHOOT!!!
THE ONLY bobcat TAKING HIS TIME TO MAKE THE DECISION,IT'S UN-ETHICAL & FLAT ASS WRONG!!!
K
ktc
Guest
DonV,
Let me answer your question the best I can without being a smart ass. I know you are interested in these hunts and are looking for information.
I do not like these hunts. However, they took about 30% of the rut tags and put them in November to try and increase opportunity without near 100% success. My hope is that the DWR does not start the big increase in tags to reach age objectives or THINK the late hunt debacle was a success.
From what I hear, success was either very high, or less than great in some units. I personally do not believe snow will ever force animals out of a unit. The units are big with winter range within them. You will not be hunting a migration hunt.
You will not get much help here on this subject. The late hunts are the big secret this year. High success and great draw odds. Look for a dramatic change in draw odds this year. People are licking their chops seeing an opportunity.
I do not know how many points you have, but do not bail on the rut hunts just yet. If you decide to go late you will be fine. You will need to contact people and do some scouting just like any other hunt. If you do these things you will get a good bull.
Good luck. Me and my wife have a ton of points and now that we can spend them it is scary. I know how you feel, we need help! There are good people around here and many will help you. Prior to the application deadline is tough though.
Let me answer your question the best I can without being a smart ass. I know you are interested in these hunts and are looking for information.
I do not like these hunts. However, they took about 30% of the rut tags and put them in November to try and increase opportunity without near 100% success. My hope is that the DWR does not start the big increase in tags to reach age objectives or THINK the late hunt debacle was a success.
From what I hear, success was either very high, or less than great in some units. I personally do not believe snow will ever force animals out of a unit. The units are big with winter range within them. You will not be hunting a migration hunt.
You will not get much help here on this subject. The late hunts are the big secret this year. High success and great draw odds. Look for a dramatic change in draw odds this year. People are licking their chops seeing an opportunity.
I do not know how many points you have, but do not bail on the rut hunts just yet. If you decide to go late you will be fine. You will need to contact people and do some scouting just like any other hunt. If you do these things you will get a good bull.
Good luck. Me and my wife have a ton of points and now that we can spend them it is scary. I know how you feel, we need help! There are good people around here and many will help you. Prior to the application deadline is tough though.
Bobcat, I still tend to disagree with your post! If you ask me hunting rutting bulls with a rifle is like shooting a fish in a barrel! How many states design their hunting seasons around not having rifle seasons (for deer, elk and other species) during the prime rut? Holy smokes, if a buck, bull, ram or whatever is vulnerable it would be during the rut. Elk make it even that much easier with a rifle since you can locate them when they are bugling!
From what I've heard I would agree that hunters did fairly well in some of the UT late rifle hunts in 2005 but did they do any better than the guys that hunted early rifle? This was the first year that bulls were allowed to be hunted in Nov in Utah so they were caught off guard. To top it off there was very little snow and excellent access in Nov. I have a feeling that once bulls start getting chased around later in the year and there is deep snow to prevent access or push them on private land it could be an entirely different story.
We've had November bull hunts in Colo for years and there is no comparison between trying to locate bulls during the rut when they are bugling compared to finding them when they are in seclusion after the rut! Here in Colo they tend to go off into the nasty canyon country where they hide! It is also a lot tougher finding bulls when there is 1 or 2' of snow and you'll have to pack them out a mile or 2!
Finding bulls in the summer ranges during the rut here in Colo is a piece of cake...but in all but a couple units you have to hunt them with a stick and string or muzzy! There are a couple units open during the rut with rifle but they take about 15 pref pts to draw and they only give out a handful of tags. If I had the chance to hunt muledeer during the heat of the rut with rifle it almost wouldn't be fair. Talk about a fish in a barrel!
Obviously elk like any other critter are creatures of habit. Once they start migrating a certain way they will likely keep doing it until pressured into something different. I've heard that the cow hunts used to be pretty easy in some Utah units but since they have been hunted the same time of year they are becoming tougher to locate?
The draw odds for a late season hunt are pretty darn good and I imagine that will change in 2006. Guys that are getting tired of waiting for a tag may jump at the possibility of drawing. I'm one of the guys that look like they could easily draw a late rifle hunt but would be the first one to tell you that it wouldn't be nearly as exciting as hunting rutting bulls. The reason the early rifle hunts are so popular is because they are pretty much a slam dunk with a rifle....you might even say it was like shooting a fish in a barrel!
From what I've heard I would agree that hunters did fairly well in some of the UT late rifle hunts in 2005 but did they do any better than the guys that hunted early rifle? This was the first year that bulls were allowed to be hunted in Nov in Utah so they were caught off guard. To top it off there was very little snow and excellent access in Nov. I have a feeling that once bulls start getting chased around later in the year and there is deep snow to prevent access or push them on private land it could be an entirely different story.
We've had November bull hunts in Colo for years and there is no comparison between trying to locate bulls during the rut when they are bugling compared to finding them when they are in seclusion after the rut! Here in Colo they tend to go off into the nasty canyon country where they hide! It is also a lot tougher finding bulls when there is 1 or 2' of snow and you'll have to pack them out a mile or 2!
Finding bulls in the summer ranges during the rut here in Colo is a piece of cake...but in all but a couple units you have to hunt them with a stick and string or muzzy! There are a couple units open during the rut with rifle but they take about 15 pref pts to draw and they only give out a handful of tags. If I had the chance to hunt muledeer during the heat of the rut with rifle it almost wouldn't be fair. Talk about a fish in a barrel!
Obviously elk like any other critter are creatures of habit. Once they start migrating a certain way they will likely keep doing it until pressured into something different. I've heard that the cow hunts used to be pretty easy in some Utah units but since they have been hunted the same time of year they are becoming tougher to locate?
The draw odds for a late season hunt are pretty darn good and I imagine that will change in 2006. Guys that are getting tired of waiting for a tag may jump at the possibility of drawing. I'm one of the guys that look like they could easily draw a late rifle hunt but would be the first one to tell you that it wouldn't be nearly as exciting as hunting rutting bulls. The reason the early rifle hunts are so popular is because they are pretty much a slam dunk with a rifle....you might even say it was like shooting a fish in a barrel!
DonVathome
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ktc thanks, I too suspect the draw odds for the late hunts will plummet, I debating trying for them last year and wish I had. I normally apply bow or muzzleloader, and would prefer to bowhunt but a drving force in my decision is draw odds - and late rifle hunts had good odds.
Keep the info coming.
Keep the info coming.
B
Bev42
Guest
I was able to accompany a friend on the early hunt on the Manti unit and then help my brother on the late hunt on the Manti. I can tell you the early hunt was a piece of cake. We were into 330-350 class bulls daily. The bulls wouldn't spook, if they did, a little call on the Hoochie Mama and they came right back. He finally took a nice 358 bull.
The late hunt was another story. I live in the Manti hunt unit so we thought it would be simple to find big bulls. We only saw 3 bulls on opening day, and once they saw us (at 432 yards) they ran to the next county. We hunted hard for 5 days and never saw a bull over 320. My brother ended up taking a bull on the last day that scored 280. I wouldn't even compare the two hunts. The early hunt is way easier, at least on the Manti.
The late hunt was another story. I live in the Manti hunt unit so we thought it would be simple to find big bulls. We only saw 3 bulls on opening day, and once they saw us (at 432 yards) they ran to the next county. We hunted hard for 5 days and never saw a bull over 320. My brother ended up taking a bull on the last day that scored 280. I wouldn't even compare the two hunts. The early hunt is way easier, at least on the Manti.
DonVathome
Very Active Member
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Tougher though, that is ok, thanks for the info!
ARROWHNTR
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I may as well get into this one too. I agree with what Jims is saying. I still say that there is no way that you can sit and say that the late hunts are not ethical, but defend the any weapon rut hunt. I was on both hunts this year, neither of them where even close to hard to kill a 340+ bull, and I would not say one was any easier then the other to kill a monster bull.
I would say that they/we did kill some great bulls on the late hunt, but I still haven't heard of a single bull killed over 400" on the Late hunt, however there may be some that I haven't seen, but I have know of several coming from the rut hunt.
I am not necessarily in favor of the age objectives that have been set in Utah, but I think that it is very hypocritical to sit and say that Utah Rifle Early or Late hunts are two easy and then bash the age objectives. The only way that we can have a harder or more ethical hunt as some call it, is to reduce the number of older trophy bulls on the limited entry units, and increase the hunting pressure.
I do not think that Utah is perfect in its elk management, but I think they are doing a pretty good job at trying to preserve quality trophy hunts, and give more opportunity. I think they have a hard task at hand though because if you read just the opinions of some on here, they don't even know what they want harder hunts but more mature bulls, sounds kind of like a contradiction to me.
I would say that they/we did kill some great bulls on the late hunt, but I still haven't heard of a single bull killed over 400" on the Late hunt, however there may be some that I haven't seen, but I have know of several coming from the rut hunt.
I am not necessarily in favor of the age objectives that have been set in Utah, but I think that it is very hypocritical to sit and say that Utah Rifle Early or Late hunts are two easy and then bash the age objectives. The only way that we can have a harder or more ethical hunt as some call it, is to reduce the number of older trophy bulls on the limited entry units, and increase the hunting pressure.
I do not think that Utah is perfect in its elk management, but I think they are doing a pretty good job at trying to preserve quality trophy hunts, and give more opportunity. I think they have a hard task at hand though because if you read just the opinions of some on here, they don't even know what they want harder hunts but more mature bulls, sounds kind of like a contradiction to me.
K
ktc
Guest
ARROWHNTR,
Please do not take my ethical post as anything other than pot stirring by me. You got a big bull, and by the looks of the photo, in a difficult spot. Surely you worked hard because bulls like yours are not gimmes by any stretch. I feel shooting any bull on a LE is easy. Shooting a 360+ takes some work no matter the season.
The girl hunt thing is only a joke and not a stab at you, or anyone else who hunted late. Please do not feel that it is nessessary to defend your hunt or bull to me or anyone else.
Just for the record I dislike the age objectives and late hunts. You are right. The elk herd has been managed with great success. We are hunting bulls on public ground with the size that used to only be raised on farms. I hope the quality stays to have a chance.
Please do not take my ethical post as anything other than pot stirring by me. You got a big bull, and by the looks of the photo, in a difficult spot. Surely you worked hard because bulls like yours are not gimmes by any stretch. I feel shooting any bull on a LE is easy. Shooting a 360+ takes some work no matter the season.
The girl hunt thing is only a joke and not a stab at you, or anyone else who hunted late. Please do not feel that it is nessessary to defend your hunt or bull to me or anyone else.
Just for the record I dislike the age objectives and late hunts. You are right. The elk herd has been managed with great success. We are hunting bulls on public ground with the size that used to only be raised on farms. I hope the quality stays to have a chance.
Q
Quadzilla
Guest
I bet the people that are against these hunts wouldn't bat an eye to come to Colorado and hunt mulies during the 4th season! And that hunt is late AND in the rut.
K
ktc
Guest
Where do I sign up? The easier the better.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
ARROWHNTR
HOW BIG WAS YOUR BULL???
PM ME IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ADVERTISED!!!
I NEVER SAID ALL THE LATE HUNT KILLS WERE EASY!!!
I'VE STUDIED THE SITUATION,IT TOOK ME SEVERAL MONTHS TO MAKE MY MIND UP,MANY MILES OF HIKING,MANY TANKS OF FUEL,THEN THE PICTURES,STORIES,AND BULLS I SEEN THAT WERE TAKEN ON THE LATE HUNT,THERE WAS SOME MAJOR DAMAGE DONE WITH VERY FEW BUSTED UP TROPHY BULLS THIS YEAR!!!
I GIVE YOU ALOT OF CREDIT FOR DOING IT THE ETHICAL WAY,YOU EARNED THE BULL & I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW BIG HE WAS???
Jims
MAYBE I COULD SHOW YOU SEVERAL GROUPS OF TROPHY BULLS GROUPED UP ON THE LATE HUNT!!!
SEVERAL TIMES I GOT INTO GROUPS OF 8 TO 13 BULLS,MOST OF THEM 330"+ BULLS,THE BUNCH WITH 13 BULLS WERE ALL 340"+ BULLS,WHAT A SITE,I COULD OF PANCAKED EVERY ONE OF THEM BULLS,THEY DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN I WAS EVEN THERE,IT WOULD OF BEEN LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL,THEY WEREN'T IN THE BEST OF SHAPE BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT AFTER THE RUT???
IF YOU THINK AN AGE OBJECTIVE OF 3 OR 4 OR 5 YEAR OLD BULLS IS THE ANSWER YOU ARE WRONG!!!
THESE 340"+ BULLS ARE OLDER THAN THAT,BEING HUNTED & RUN AROUND FROM MID-AUGUST UNTIL THE LAST OF NOVEMBER TAKES IT'S TOLL ON BIG GAME,THESE AIN'T GAME RANCH BULLS THAT ARE TROPHIES AT AGE 4!!!
OPPORTUNITY MY ASS!!!
THESE L.E. UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR PEOPLE WHINNING FOR MORE OPPORTUNITY!!!
YOU WANT OPPORTUNITY I'LL SHOW IT TO YOU FREE OF CHARGE & YOU CAN HUNT EVERY YEAR!!!
THESE L.E. UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR AVERAGE JOES SCREAMING THEY HAVE 4-5 POINTS & WANT TO HUNT THE TROPHY UNITS!!!
I'M CALLING B.S. ON A BIG NUMBER OF BULLS DIEING OF OLD AGE!!!
SOME OF YOU DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE I THINK THE LATE HUNT IS UN-ETHICAL,I'VE SPENT ALOT OF TIME & MONEY LOOKING INTO IT MYSELF,I'M NOT TAKING ANYBODY'S WORD ON IT,THESE ARE FACTS PROVEN TO MYSELF!!!
I JUST DON'T SEE MYSELF KILLING A BULL THAT IS RUN DOWN,SKINNY,NOT AN OUNCE OF FAT ON HIS BONES,GROUPED UP WITH SEVERAL BULLS,EASY TO LOCATE,HALF SICK,TRYING TO PUT SOME MORE MEAT ON THEIR BONES SO THEY CAN SURVIVE THE WINTER AND HERE COMES AVERAGE JOE BLOW WITH A LATE BULL PERMIT,WHICH BULL SHOULD I SHOOT IN THAT FLOCK,BOOM,DAMN THAT WAS THRILLING!!!
NO,THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT EASY BUT A BUNCH OF THEM ARE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING NOT ONLY IS IT UN-ETHICAL,IT IS SICK & WRONG,REMEMBER THE LATE COW HUNTS,SOME OF THE COWS PACKING CALVES 4-5 MONTHS ALONG,AGAIN IT'S SICK & WRONG,LETS JUST HUNT BIG GAME YEAR AROUND,ONLY SHOOT THEM WHEN YOU SEE THEM!!!
HOW BIG WAS YOUR BULL???
PM ME IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ADVERTISED!!!
I NEVER SAID ALL THE LATE HUNT KILLS WERE EASY!!!
I'VE STUDIED THE SITUATION,IT TOOK ME SEVERAL MONTHS TO MAKE MY MIND UP,MANY MILES OF HIKING,MANY TANKS OF FUEL,THEN THE PICTURES,STORIES,AND BULLS I SEEN THAT WERE TAKEN ON THE LATE HUNT,THERE WAS SOME MAJOR DAMAGE DONE WITH VERY FEW BUSTED UP TROPHY BULLS THIS YEAR!!!
I GIVE YOU ALOT OF CREDIT FOR DOING IT THE ETHICAL WAY,YOU EARNED THE BULL & I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW BIG HE WAS???
Jims
MAYBE I COULD SHOW YOU SEVERAL GROUPS OF TROPHY BULLS GROUPED UP ON THE LATE HUNT!!!
SEVERAL TIMES I GOT INTO GROUPS OF 8 TO 13 BULLS,MOST OF THEM 330"+ BULLS,THE BUNCH WITH 13 BULLS WERE ALL 340"+ BULLS,WHAT A SITE,I COULD OF PANCAKED EVERY ONE OF THEM BULLS,THEY DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN I WAS EVEN THERE,IT WOULD OF BEEN LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL,THEY WEREN'T IN THE BEST OF SHAPE BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT AFTER THE RUT???
IF YOU THINK AN AGE OBJECTIVE OF 3 OR 4 OR 5 YEAR OLD BULLS IS THE ANSWER YOU ARE WRONG!!!
THESE 340"+ BULLS ARE OLDER THAN THAT,BEING HUNTED & RUN AROUND FROM MID-AUGUST UNTIL THE LAST OF NOVEMBER TAKES IT'S TOLL ON BIG GAME,THESE AIN'T GAME RANCH BULLS THAT ARE TROPHIES AT AGE 4!!!
OPPORTUNITY MY ASS!!!
THESE L.E. UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR PEOPLE WHINNING FOR MORE OPPORTUNITY!!!
YOU WANT OPPORTUNITY I'LL SHOW IT TO YOU FREE OF CHARGE & YOU CAN HUNT EVERY YEAR!!!
THESE L.E. UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR AVERAGE JOES SCREAMING THEY HAVE 4-5 POINTS & WANT TO HUNT THE TROPHY UNITS!!!
I'M CALLING B.S. ON A BIG NUMBER OF BULLS DIEING OF OLD AGE!!!
SOME OF YOU DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE I THINK THE LATE HUNT IS UN-ETHICAL,I'VE SPENT ALOT OF TIME & MONEY LOOKING INTO IT MYSELF,I'M NOT TAKING ANYBODY'S WORD ON IT,THESE ARE FACTS PROVEN TO MYSELF!!!
I JUST DON'T SEE MYSELF KILLING A BULL THAT IS RUN DOWN,SKINNY,NOT AN OUNCE OF FAT ON HIS BONES,GROUPED UP WITH SEVERAL BULLS,EASY TO LOCATE,HALF SICK,TRYING TO PUT SOME MORE MEAT ON THEIR BONES SO THEY CAN SURVIVE THE WINTER AND HERE COMES AVERAGE JOE BLOW WITH A LATE BULL PERMIT,WHICH BULL SHOULD I SHOOT IN THAT FLOCK,BOOM,DAMN THAT WAS THRILLING!!!
NO,THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT EASY BUT A BUNCH OF THEM ARE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING NOT ONLY IS IT UN-ETHICAL,IT IS SICK & WRONG,REMEMBER THE LATE COW HUNTS,SOME OF THE COWS PACKING CALVES 4-5 MONTHS ALONG,AGAIN IT'S SICK & WRONG,LETS JUST HUNT BIG GAME YEAR AROUND,ONLY SHOOT THEM WHEN YOU SEE THEM!!!
The easy ones are easy now, give them a year or two and they will figure out whats going on and it will be one tuff hunt!
I would have to say that its probably a little more ethical on the late hunt than suckering those horny suckers in with a hoochie mama and then giving them some of your own penatration with the ole rifle slug at 20 yards, how ethical is that, of course this would be my choice when I draw a permit in the next 10 years!!!!!
I would have to say that its probably a little more ethical on the late hunt than suckering those horny suckers in with a hoochie mama and then giving them some of your own penatration with the ole rifle slug at 20 yards, how ethical is that, of course this would be my choice when I draw a permit in the next 10 years!!!!!
I definitely agree with you Bobcatbess that the age structure should be closely discussed and monitored. It totally amazes me that UT currently has so many LE units with average age of 6 to 7 year old bulls! UT ought to be patted on the back! I sure wish CDOW would consider managing by age class rather than herd numbers. If you have ever hunted Colo elk you know exactly what I'm talking about!
The last thing I'd like to see in UT is age class dropped to the 4-5 year old objectives that currently are being sought in the premier units. It took years to achieve 6 to 7 year old bulls and it wouldn't take long to botch the entire thing up!
I can also understand how UT residents would start complaining after not drawing limited tags for 10 to 13 years! That is a heck of a long time to wait for 1 tag in your own state.
I would hate to be the guy in charge of deciding tag allotments, season dates, and age structures. It would be next to impossible to keep everyone happy. Anyone that has waited 10 to 13+ years in hopes of one day drawing an elk hunt of a lifetime and sees new rifle seasons open up with lower age class objectives definitely has good reason to be concerned. I truly hope UT remains conservative while sorting through the details.
I don't think any state's elk herd gets hammered as hard as Colo. Archery and muzzy seasons in Aug through Sept, then 4 rifle seasons that last into mid Nov....Colo elk have much more hunting pressure than UT ever thought about! The unit above my house is open for Aug through the middle of January! If you look at hunter numbers and days of hunting pressure in Colo it is almost mind boggling! Colo herds remain healthy even with this pressure. The elk have figured out exactly where to go once the pressure starts!
The last thing I'd like to see in UT is age class dropped to the 4-5 year old objectives that currently are being sought in the premier units. It took years to achieve 6 to 7 year old bulls and it wouldn't take long to botch the entire thing up!
I can also understand how UT residents would start complaining after not drawing limited tags for 10 to 13 years! That is a heck of a long time to wait for 1 tag in your own state.
I would hate to be the guy in charge of deciding tag allotments, season dates, and age structures. It would be next to impossible to keep everyone happy. Anyone that has waited 10 to 13+ years in hopes of one day drawing an elk hunt of a lifetime and sees new rifle seasons open up with lower age class objectives definitely has good reason to be concerned. I truly hope UT remains conservative while sorting through the details.
I don't think any state's elk herd gets hammered as hard as Colo. Archery and muzzy seasons in Aug through Sept, then 4 rifle seasons that last into mid Nov....Colo elk have much more hunting pressure than UT ever thought about! The unit above my house is open for Aug through the middle of January! If you look at hunter numbers and days of hunting pressure in Colo it is almost mind boggling! Colo herds remain healthy even with this pressure. The elk have figured out exactly where to go once the pressure starts!
4
4000fps
Guest
You are right about Colorado. If it weren't for private land, there wouldn't be an elk left in this state after November. But I can also say, i think the elk numbers in CO are grossly exagerated.
K
ktc
Guest
DonV,
I spoke to a guy today who held a late tag last year. OK, don't kill the messenger guys. This is not to start a argument about killing elk with any weapon during the rut.
He said, "It (the late hunt) was almost like cheating."
I spoke to a guy today who held a late tag last year. OK, don't kill the messenger guys. This is not to start a argument about killing elk with any weapon during the rut.
He said, "It (the late hunt) was almost like cheating."
B
bobcatbess
Guest
DonV
I'M NOT REAL GOOD AT KEEPING SECRETS!!!
I TELLS IT AS I SEE'S IT!!!
CHEATING = LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:THE RUT HUNT IS LOOKING AT ONE BULL AT A TIME,THE LATE (CHEATING)(GIRLS) HUNT IS DECIPHERING WHICH BULL IN THE FLOCK YOU'LL SHOOT!!!
I'M NOT REAL GOOD AT KEEPING SECRETS!!!
I TELLS IT AS I SEE'S IT!!!
CHEATING = LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:THE RUT HUNT IS LOOKING AT ONE BULL AT A TIME,THE LATE (CHEATING)(GIRLS) HUNT IS DECIPHERING WHICH BULL IN THE FLOCK YOU'LL SHOOT!!!
Q
Quikspin
Guest
I have been reading your post on this site for some time and have been content to sit back and giggle at your comments . but , I can't resist putting in my two cents worth any longer .
I have been putting in for LE hunts for 29 years and have yet to draw a tag in this state for elk . I have however watched as Family and friends over the years have drawn tags on mostly the archery hunts and have watched in amazement at how easy each one of them have taken very nice bulls and then this year my son drew a late elk tag and yes he took a nice 366 class bull .
I was with him on this hunt and by no means was this like shooting fish in a barrel , We saw several bulls each day but they were very spooky and if they seen you even at 7 or 8 hundred yards they where headed for cover . I never seen this on any of the early Archery hunts that I was in on . on most of these hunts If there was at least 100 or so yards between you they were content to stand and watch you . I can't help but think that the early rifle rut hunts are any different . I also seen alot of Big bull that where broken up and 3 that had at least half or more of the main beam broken off .
So I guess what I am getting at is that if you are lucky enough to draw a LE tag on any of Utahs hunts it can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it . If you are looking for any bull then stir up the barrel and shoot,but if you are going to be picky and look for that once in a life time bull then you are going to have to try a little harder and this goes for any of the seasons . I know that when I draw My ONCE IN a LIFETIME tag
I will hunt like it is my last chance and look for the bull of my dreams !!!!!!!!!!
I have been putting in for LE hunts for 29 years and have yet to draw a tag in this state for elk . I have however watched as Family and friends over the years have drawn tags on mostly the archery hunts and have watched in amazement at how easy each one of them have taken very nice bulls and then this year my son drew a late elk tag and yes he took a nice 366 class bull .
I was with him on this hunt and by no means was this like shooting fish in a barrel , We saw several bulls each day but they were very spooky and if they seen you even at 7 or 8 hundred yards they where headed for cover . I never seen this on any of the early Archery hunts that I was in on . on most of these hunts If there was at least 100 or so yards between you they were content to stand and watch you . I can't help but think that the early rifle rut hunts are any different . I also seen alot of Big bull that where broken up and 3 that had at least half or more of the main beam broken off .
So I guess what I am getting at is that if you are lucky enough to draw a LE tag on any of Utahs hunts it can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it . If you are looking for any bull then stir up the barrel and shoot,but if you are going to be picky and look for that once in a life time bull then you are going to have to try a little harder and this goes for any of the seasons . I know that when I draw My ONCE IN a LIFETIME tag
I will hunt like it is my last chance and look for the bull of my dreams !!!!!!!!!!
K
ktc
Guest
Quik,
Stir up the barrel? That is my job.;-)
I must add, the guy got a nice bull, not a upper end one.
Stir up the barrel? That is my job.;-)
I must add, the guy got a nice bull, not a upper end one.
W
WARBIRDUM
Guest
I wish I could get them with my bow at 100 yards just standing there looking at me.I guess during the late hunt if they were running away and very spooky at long distances that could make it a challenge.He who have wind at back spook lots of game to others for close shot.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
Quikspin
GLAD TO HEAR YOUR SON TOOK A TROPHY BULL!!!
I'M MORE GLAD THAT THE OPPORTUNITY WAS THERE FOR HIM TO TAKE A TROPHY BULL!!!
NOW I'M NOT CLAIMING 100% OF THE BULLS TAKEN WERE LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!
BUT THINK ABOUT!!!
I TAKE IT THIS WAS YOUR SONS FIRST YEAR WITH OPPORTUNITY IN AN L.E.ELK UNIT???
A.K.A. THE LADIES HUNT ACCORDING TO ktc!!!
I HAVE NO IDEA HOW OLD YOUR SON IS BUT I'LL PUT MONEY ON IT HE'S PROBABLY YOUNGER THAN ME???
SOUNDS LIKE HE PLAYED HIS CARDS RIGHT!!!
WOW,A 366"+ BULL THE VERY FIRST TIME INTO THE UNIT I'LL BET???
I'M NOT DOUBTING YOU GUY'S,I'M SURE YOU EARNED EVERY INCH OF THAT 366" BULL!!!
BUT THINK ABOUT IT,A 366" BULL IN JUST ONE SEASON!!!
I'VE HUNTED A LIFETIME & NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE TO A 366" BULL!!!
I'D GUESS THAT HUNTING IN AN AREA WHERE THERE ARE 350"+ BULLS WOULD ALWAYS PLAY TO A GUY'S ADVANTAGE,SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SHORT OF!!!
I'LL BET YOU'D TRADE ALL THE WORK YOU PUT IN THE HUNT IN A HEARTBEAT TO DO IT AGAIN???
NOW YOU MIGHT NOT THINK OF IT AS SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL,BUT A 366"+ BULL IN ONE SEASON,I'VE HUNTED 25+ YEARS & NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE,COME ON MAN,ADMIT IT,THATS A HELL OF A BULL & I'LL BET HE GOT THE PERMIT WITH JUST 1/2 THE POINTS ktc HAS???
I'D APPRECIATE SEEING A PICTURE IF YOU DON'T MIND???
I'LL BET YOU'RE ONE OF THE PROUDEST DAD'S AROUND!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:YOU MIGHT NOT LOOK AT IT AS SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL BUT GO BACK TO HUNTING OPEN UNITS FOR A FEW YEARS & THEN E-MAIL ME BACK WITH YOUR THOUGHTS!!!
(P.S. GOOD LUCK IN THE DRAW,IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S YOUR TURN!!!)
GLAD TO HEAR YOUR SON TOOK A TROPHY BULL!!!
I'M MORE GLAD THAT THE OPPORTUNITY WAS THERE FOR HIM TO TAKE A TROPHY BULL!!!
NOW I'M NOT CLAIMING 100% OF THE BULLS TAKEN WERE LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL!!!
BUT THINK ABOUT!!!
I TAKE IT THIS WAS YOUR SONS FIRST YEAR WITH OPPORTUNITY IN AN L.E.ELK UNIT???
A.K.A. THE LADIES HUNT ACCORDING TO ktc!!!
I HAVE NO IDEA HOW OLD YOUR SON IS BUT I'LL PUT MONEY ON IT HE'S PROBABLY YOUNGER THAN ME???
SOUNDS LIKE HE PLAYED HIS CARDS RIGHT!!!
WOW,A 366"+ BULL THE VERY FIRST TIME INTO THE UNIT I'LL BET???
I'M NOT DOUBTING YOU GUY'S,I'M SURE YOU EARNED EVERY INCH OF THAT 366" BULL!!!
BUT THINK ABOUT IT,A 366" BULL IN JUST ONE SEASON!!!
I'VE HUNTED A LIFETIME & NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE TO A 366" BULL!!!
I'D GUESS THAT HUNTING IN AN AREA WHERE THERE ARE 350"+ BULLS WOULD ALWAYS PLAY TO A GUY'S ADVANTAGE,SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SHORT OF!!!
I'LL BET YOU'D TRADE ALL THE WORK YOU PUT IN THE HUNT IN A HEARTBEAT TO DO IT AGAIN???
NOW YOU MIGHT NOT THINK OF IT AS SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL,BUT A 366"+ BULL IN ONE SEASON,I'VE HUNTED 25+ YEARS & NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE,COME ON MAN,ADMIT IT,THATS A HELL OF A BULL & I'LL BET HE GOT THE PERMIT WITH JUST 1/2 THE POINTS ktc HAS???
I'D APPRECIATE SEEING A PICTURE IF YOU DON'T MIND???
I'LL BET YOU'RE ONE OF THE PROUDEST DAD'S AROUND!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:YOU MIGHT NOT LOOK AT IT AS SHOOTING FISH IN A BARRELL BUT GO BACK TO HUNTING OPEN UNITS FOR A FEW YEARS & THEN E-MAIL ME BACK WITH YOUR THOUGHTS!!!
(P.S. GOOD LUCK IN THE DRAW,IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S YOUR TURN!!!)
Q
Quikspin
Guest
Bobcat ,
The only thing that I was trying to say is that The hardest thing in Utah is drawing the tag . IF YOU PUT IN YOUR TIME SCOUTING YOU WILL GET A BULL AND PROBABLY A DAMN GOOD ONE .
Now as for my son ,no it wasn't his first time on the unit but it was his first draw tag , He had 7 points to draw the tag and he put in for it on my advise I just wish I had listened to my self and done the same . I bet that I have just as many points as ktc and I am in the same boat (just collecting points )
I to have hunted a lifetime and never had an opportunity at that class of a bull . I have hunted open units every year either in this state or others and my best bulls to date are 320 Archery and 340 rifle and both of these were on public lands open units and do it your self type hunts .
I will agree that it is very frustrating to see the state lower the age class when I and others have been trying so long to get a tag only to see each year we come up short that the chances of that super bull are getting slimmer .
Warbirdum ,
You got me on the 100 yrd thing , you can't shoot them at that distance with a bow but you sure can with a rifle !
The only thing that I was trying to say is that The hardest thing in Utah is drawing the tag . IF YOU PUT IN YOUR TIME SCOUTING YOU WILL GET A BULL AND PROBABLY A DAMN GOOD ONE .
Now as for my son ,no it wasn't his first time on the unit but it was his first draw tag , He had 7 points to draw the tag and he put in for it on my advise I just wish I had listened to my self and done the same . I bet that I have just as many points as ktc and I am in the same boat (just collecting points )
I to have hunted a lifetime and never had an opportunity at that class of a bull . I have hunted open units every year either in this state or others and my best bulls to date are 320 Archery and 340 rifle and both of these were on public lands open units and do it your self type hunts .
I will agree that it is very frustrating to see the state lower the age class when I and others have been trying so long to get a tag only to see each year we come up short that the chances of that super bull are getting slimmer .
Warbirdum ,
You got me on the 100 yrd thing , you can't shoot them at that distance with a bow but you sure can with a rifle !
W
WARBIRDUM
Guest
Why stop at 100 yards with a rifle I know about a gal that shot her elk at 500 plus yards on the late hunt and it was a damn nice bull.383 with 18 inches broken.
K
ktc
Guest
How many Quikspin? I am on year 25 and 13 points. I guess I do not have anything else to do but apply and get points. Next year I should draw Diamond Mountain Rifle late though. I was going to do the rut any weapon hunt, but decided to go late. I like things easy.;-)
It sucks to watch people in the last 5 years hunt great big bulls only to have people complain they are too big and want more tags. Some got big bulls, some did not. Drawing a tag is hard, but getting the big bulls is not as easy as people might think. I hope someone pulls their head out of their ass before the tags are increased too much. I feel bad for guys with 6 to 10 points who want a trophy bull.
I feel pressure to get out of this game now. Maybe with the age objective changes I can draw again in 5 years and get me a 280 bull. Maybe again in 10 years and get a 4X5. I guess I could be happy with that. Success should never exceed 28%. Why not turn LE elk into "The Deer Hunt?" Then we can piss and moan elk are not big enough. This subject depresses the hell out of me.
DonV,
Not to get away from your question, if you see a hunt you like that is late go for it. If you have quite a few points I would encourage you to do your best to spend them. Change in Utah elk is not good. The lesser units are better now than the management plans on premium units in 5 years. Unless, of course, someone pulls their head out.
It sucks to watch people in the last 5 years hunt great big bulls only to have people complain they are too big and want more tags. Some got big bulls, some did not. Drawing a tag is hard, but getting the big bulls is not as easy as people might think. I hope someone pulls their head out of their ass before the tags are increased too much. I feel bad for guys with 6 to 10 points who want a trophy bull.
I feel pressure to get out of this game now. Maybe with the age objective changes I can draw again in 5 years and get me a 280 bull. Maybe again in 10 years and get a 4X5. I guess I could be happy with that. Success should never exceed 28%. Why not turn LE elk into "The Deer Hunt?" Then we can piss and moan elk are not big enough. This subject depresses the hell out of me.
DonV,
Not to get away from your question, if you see a hunt you like that is late go for it. If you have quite a few points I would encourage you to do your best to spend them. Change in Utah elk is not good. The lesser units are better now than the management plans on premium units in 5 years. Unless, of course, someone pulls their head out.
K
ktc
Guest
One more comment. Why do people keep calling the any weapon hunts early rifle? They are only rifle if that is the weapon you pick. It can easily be called the early rut longbow season, or early rut muzzleloader season. So, pick your weapon, level of difficulty, and pick your draw season and go for it.
S
South_slope
Guest
You really think that the reason that they created the late season was to give more opportunity? Wrong, it was meant to target older bulls that head down the mountain first. The sever lack of snow unfortunately gave the late season a bad rap in the first year. It is a tried and proven system that seems to be working well for other states. Utah management program is just now starting to see the great results of a quality initiative.
Does anyone actually believe that it is sustainable long term the way it is? I know on the Wasatch unit there are an over abundance of past their prime bulls. No one is ever in their right mind going to shoot these bulls if it a once in a lifetime hunt.
Bobcat, you must have went to school in Duchesne?
Does anyone actually believe that it is sustainable long term the way it is? I know on the Wasatch unit there are an over abundance of past their prime bulls. No one is ever in their right mind going to shoot these bulls if it a once in a lifetime hunt.
Bobcat, you must have went to school in Duchesne?
B
bobcatbess
Guest
South_sloper
YOU BEEN IN THE CATNIP OR WHAT???
I'M CALLING BULLSHIT ON YOUR 'OVER ABUNDANCE OF PAST THEIR PRIME BULLS'!!!
YOU'RE TALKING LIKE THE UDWR,IF THEIR PAST AGE 4 WE'D BETTER SHOOT THEM BEFORE THEY DIE,BS!!!
THE OPPORTUNITY I'M TALKING ABOUT IS:HUNTING IN AN AREA WHERE THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE YOU'LL SEE & TAKE A 350"+ BULL AFTER WAITING WHO KNOWS HOW LONG TO PULL THE TAG!!!
YOU SEE THE WORD 'OPPORTUNITY' MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT DIDN'T GO TO SCHOOL IN DUCHESNE,THATS A LOW BLOW & I WILL RETURN THE FAVOR!!!
YOU BEEN IN THE CATNIP OR WHAT???
I'M CALLING BULLSHIT ON YOUR 'OVER ABUNDANCE OF PAST THEIR PRIME BULLS'!!!
YOU'RE TALKING LIKE THE UDWR,IF THEIR PAST AGE 4 WE'D BETTER SHOOT THEM BEFORE THEY DIE,BS!!!
THE OPPORTUNITY I'M TALKING ABOUT IS:HUNTING IN AN AREA WHERE THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE YOU'LL SEE & TAKE A 350"+ BULL AFTER WAITING WHO KNOWS HOW LONG TO PULL THE TAG!!!
YOU SEE THE WORD 'OPPORTUNITY' MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT DIDN'T GO TO SCHOOL IN DUCHESNE,THATS A LOW BLOW & I WILL RETURN THE FAVOR!!!
K
ktc
Guest
South,
That is exactly the reason the late hunts were added. OPPORTUNITY!
That is exactly the reason the late hunts were added. OPPORTUNITY!
S
South_slope
Guest
So all the tags were new tags? None of the increase was due to the fact that the units are over the age objectives? The DWR was just out to make a puss hunt? Sorry that all totally makes sence now.
Babcat, the Duchesne joke that may have been a little uncalled for. Blast away!!!!!!
Babcat, the Duchesne joke that may have been a little uncalled for. Blast away!!!!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
South_sloper
OVER AGE CLASS MY ASS!!!
IT'S A LADIES HUNT,I'M STILL LAUGHING AT ktc!!!
THERE WERE A BUNCH OF SPORTSMEN WHINNING THEY HAD 5-8 POINTS(TAKE A FEW,GIVE A FEW!!!)THEY ADD THE LATE HUNT,MORE OPPORTUNITY GIVEN,YOU KNOW ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE PEOPLE WITH JUST ONE POINT START SCREAMING!!!
EVERYTIME I MENTION THE SLEEPER UNIT (D.M.) SOMEBODY JUMPS ON ME,DO THE MATH & YOU'LL SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!
THERES GOING TO BE A FEW DO THEIR INVESTIGATIVE HOME WORK & JUMP ON THAT UNIT!!!
THINK ABOUT IT South_sloper,IF THE AGE OBJECTIVES ARE LOWERED THESE LE UNITS WILL BECOME 'JUNK HUNTS' QICKER THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE,BUT OH BOY,WE GAVE MORE OPPORTUNITY!!!
NOT EVERY SOUL CAN HUNT TROPHY ELK IN THIS STATE,SAD BUT TRUE,IS IT FAIR THAT PEOPLE WITH 5 POINTS ARE HUNTING LE UNITS WHILE ktc IS SITTING BACK WITH MAX POINTS???
THE ONLY bobcat SAYING IT ONCE & AGAIN:L.E. UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR AVERAGE JOES,IT WASN'T AVERAGE JOE THAT HELPED GET THE UNITS WHERE THEY ARE TODAY,BUT NOW THE UNITS ARE PRODUCING ALOT OF BULLS THERE ARE ALOT OF AVERAGE JOES SCREAMING THEIR HEADS OFF THEY WANT TO HUNT THE UNITS EVEN IF THEY ONLY GET A 320" BULL,IF I WERE IN CHARGE(WHICH I'M NOT!!!)I'D TELL AVERAGE JOE TO GET SCREWED THERES OPPORTUNITY FOR DINK BULLS IN OPEN AREA UNITS!!!
OVER AGE CLASS MY ASS!!!
IT'S A LADIES HUNT,I'M STILL LAUGHING AT ktc!!!
THERE WERE A BUNCH OF SPORTSMEN WHINNING THEY HAD 5-8 POINTS(TAKE A FEW,GIVE A FEW!!!)THEY ADD THE LATE HUNT,MORE OPPORTUNITY GIVEN,YOU KNOW ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE PEOPLE WITH JUST ONE POINT START SCREAMING!!!
EVERYTIME I MENTION THE SLEEPER UNIT (D.M.) SOMEBODY JUMPS ON ME,DO THE MATH & YOU'LL SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!
THERES GOING TO BE A FEW DO THEIR INVESTIGATIVE HOME WORK & JUMP ON THAT UNIT!!!
THINK ABOUT IT South_sloper,IF THE AGE OBJECTIVES ARE LOWERED THESE LE UNITS WILL BECOME 'JUNK HUNTS' QICKER THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE,BUT OH BOY,WE GAVE MORE OPPORTUNITY!!!
NOT EVERY SOUL CAN HUNT TROPHY ELK IN THIS STATE,SAD BUT TRUE,IS IT FAIR THAT PEOPLE WITH 5 POINTS ARE HUNTING LE UNITS WHILE ktc IS SITTING BACK WITH MAX POINTS???
THE ONLY bobcat SAYING IT ONCE & AGAIN:L.E. UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR AVERAGE JOES,IT WASN'T AVERAGE JOE THAT HELPED GET THE UNITS WHERE THEY ARE TODAY,BUT NOW THE UNITS ARE PRODUCING ALOT OF BULLS THERE ARE ALOT OF AVERAGE JOES SCREAMING THEIR HEADS OFF THEY WANT TO HUNT THE UNITS EVEN IF THEY ONLY GET A 320" BULL,IF I WERE IN CHARGE(WHICH I'M NOT!!!)I'D TELL AVERAGE JOE TO GET SCREWED THERES OPPORTUNITY FOR DINK BULLS IN OPEN AREA UNITS!!!
DonVathome
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,717
Who thinks the odds will be no where near as good this time around? I bet a lot of guys will jump on the late hunts and odds will be twice as bad.
K
ktc
Guest
DonV,
I am trying not to hijack your thread, but this SouthSlope guy needs his ass kicked.;-) More on that in a minute.
Don, these late hunts are going to get some serious attention. The odds will get a lot worse this year. How much worse? Who knows and that is the million dollar question. People want to hunt now. The late hunts give them that chance based on last year's odds. You can tell where people want to apply because they will not talk about it. I will because it does not affect me any.
My ethical post was only to try and get people to talk. They did not do it. I thought I could aggitate a few MM faithful by calling these hunts puss hunts, girl hunts, or whatever. The people here are like a weary rainbow. Tough to get them to take the bait.
If you have over 8 points I would try early. Under 8 go late. I think the early odds will be improved dramatically. The late hunts odds will go down dramatically. That is my thoughts. If you are worried about late hunt success I will give you 3 units I would avoid on the late based on last year's difficulty. If you sift through my ethical post, one guy lists them there. It is only hearsay though. Late may give you better odds as a NR. I am almost positive me and my wife are hunting this year and it is scary. I always felt good with the comfort of max points.
SouthSlope,
Go through the archives a year ago. Look at the elk committee threads, opportunity threads, and elk changes threads. You can read there why the late hunt line up was added. It had nothing to do with Grandpa elk. It had everything to do with low success out of the rut like Arizona does it to give opportunity to those with 5 points. They say they are happy with 320 bulls. They say their kids will never hunt with them. They say Arizona does it. They say max point holders are unfair. Do some homework SS.
I will say this buddy. No matter what their reasoning was, short of a great hunt, it failed miserably.
I am trying not to hijack your thread, but this SouthSlope guy needs his ass kicked.;-) More on that in a minute.
Don, these late hunts are going to get some serious attention. The odds will get a lot worse this year. How much worse? Who knows and that is the million dollar question. People want to hunt now. The late hunts give them that chance based on last year's odds. You can tell where people want to apply because they will not talk about it. I will because it does not affect me any.
My ethical post was only to try and get people to talk. They did not do it. I thought I could aggitate a few MM faithful by calling these hunts puss hunts, girl hunts, or whatever. The people here are like a weary rainbow. Tough to get them to take the bait.If you have over 8 points I would try early. Under 8 go late. I think the early odds will be improved dramatically. The late hunts odds will go down dramatically. That is my thoughts. If you are worried about late hunt success I will give you 3 units I would avoid on the late based on last year's difficulty. If you sift through my ethical post, one guy lists them there. It is only hearsay though. Late may give you better odds as a NR. I am almost positive me and my wife are hunting this year and it is scary. I always felt good with the comfort of max points.
SouthSlope,
Go through the archives a year ago. Look at the elk committee threads, opportunity threads, and elk changes threads. You can read there why the late hunt line up was added. It had nothing to do with Grandpa elk. It had everything to do with low success out of the rut like Arizona does it to give opportunity to those with 5 points. They say they are happy with 320 bulls. They say their kids will never hunt with them. They say Arizona does it. They say max point holders are unfair. Do some homework SS.
I will say this buddy. No matter what their reasoning was, short of a great hunt, it failed miserably.
DonVathome
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,717
As a NR I think the odds will not jump as much as for a res. I suspect a lot of guys are just going to keep waiting for their dream premium unit rifle rut hunt. I have only 4 points and want to hunt so I might try for late or muzzy, not sure yet.
Q
Quikspin
Guest
KTC , I am with you on this one , I went to several RAC meetings before they change things and added the late hunt . Never did I hear anyone say anything about bulls getting to old .it was all about more opertunity and reducing the success.
on that end I think they might have been wrong but we will see .
29 years 13 points and I have never drawn a tag in this state . I think I am going hunting this year as well ,.late hunt here I come !!!
DONV ,
go for it , eveybody else is no matter what they say in here .
on that end I think they might have been wrong but we will see .
29 years 13 points and I have never drawn a tag in this state . I think I am going hunting this year as well ,.late hunt here I come !!!
DONV ,
go for it , eveybody else is no matter what they say in here .
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
Ktc,
How are you my friend? I don't get to a computer as often as I used too. I just read this thread and thought I would add my "opportunistic" oppinion!
I know most of your oppinions and I totally respect them. I hope you can respect mine.
I see these hunts as a very good opportunity. These elk that were killed on the late hunt this year were bulls that would have been killed on the early Bamboo Longbow/Heavy slingshot/ Muzzleloader/ Rifle hunt. They simply split the total permit numbers by a percentage and applied them to a new time frame!
I am sure the success rates were better than some expected. I am also sure that some people with less points were given an awesome opportunity to kill a great bull.
I disagree that this hunt was any easier than it is/would be in the rut when these same bulls are screaming there heads off and uncontrolably responding to every bugle sent there way. I believe that this hunt did it's purpose by dividing the applicants into 2 pools for each tag splitting the odds up a bit. Hopefully increasing a persons odds a bit of drawing.
Most of the objections I hear to this hunt relates to too many permits given over all. This is a completely different issue. I also hope they hold the permits at a level to continue with good quality. I believe that there was room for additional permits on most units. On some there still is. Keep in mind that even on 3-4 year old objective units they have harvested bulls up to 400 B&C. Granted not as many as a 7-8 year old unit but a few monsters and many great bulls in the 330-350 range. The public spoke and the RAC's along with most of the hunting groups responded. Keep the faith. The elk are not shot out nor will they be. The DWR is so proud of this herd they will manage the age groups and if the public really does not like this new plan they/we can voice our oppinions and get it changed. Bottom line to me is this hunt gives opportunity and spreads hunter numbers out into 2 hunts rather than cramming all of them into a 10 day hunt.
I hunt a lot on the Manti and the Wasatch and even after most of the killing this year I was still seeing a lot of good bulls. I know most of you may choose to disagree with these oppinions and thats okay, I would hope you can see the other sides point of view.
Good luck to you in the draws KTC. The offer is still around if you need a hand packing out both bulls you and your wife kill this year!!!
Have a great day!
Chad
How are you my friend? I don't get to a computer as often as I used too. I just read this thread and thought I would add my "opportunistic" oppinion!
I know most of your oppinions and I totally respect them. I hope you can respect mine.
I see these hunts as a very good opportunity. These elk that were killed on the late hunt this year were bulls that would have been killed on the early Bamboo Longbow/Heavy slingshot/ Muzzleloader/ Rifle hunt. They simply split the total permit numbers by a percentage and applied them to a new time frame!
I am sure the success rates were better than some expected. I am also sure that some people with less points were given an awesome opportunity to kill a great bull.
I disagree that this hunt was any easier than it is/would be in the rut when these same bulls are screaming there heads off and uncontrolably responding to every bugle sent there way. I believe that this hunt did it's purpose by dividing the applicants into 2 pools for each tag splitting the odds up a bit. Hopefully increasing a persons odds a bit of drawing.
Most of the objections I hear to this hunt relates to too many permits given over all. This is a completely different issue. I also hope they hold the permits at a level to continue with good quality. I believe that there was room for additional permits on most units. On some there still is. Keep in mind that even on 3-4 year old objective units they have harvested bulls up to 400 B&C. Granted not as many as a 7-8 year old unit but a few monsters and many great bulls in the 330-350 range. The public spoke and the RAC's along with most of the hunting groups responded. Keep the faith. The elk are not shot out nor will they be. The DWR is so proud of this herd they will manage the age groups and if the public really does not like this new plan they/we can voice our oppinions and get it changed. Bottom line to me is this hunt gives opportunity and spreads hunter numbers out into 2 hunts rather than cramming all of them into a 10 day hunt.
I hunt a lot on the Manti and the Wasatch and even after most of the killing this year I was still seeing a lot of good bulls. I know most of you may choose to disagree with these oppinions and thats okay, I would hope you can see the other sides point of view.
Good luck to you in the draws KTC. The offer is still around if you need a hand packing out both bulls you and your wife kill this year!!!
Have a great day!
Chad
K
ktc
Guest
Chad,
I am good. And you?
I cannot say that I disagree with you except one point. You are right about the season split and percentage of tags removed from the early rut hunt. At first glance a person sees a new hunt with many more tags. These late season tags were taken from the early pool. The damage was not extreme late season.
I think the late hunt removed the bugles you hear in September, but the elk were near their winter range. This helped some hunters, while others had some difficulty.
The funny thing is that Utah elk hunters have created a stigma that every guy hunting gets a 380 bull. These bulls are taken by a small percentage of people. 350+ takes some work, scouting, and knowledge of what you are looking at and for. I hope I can connect on a 350+ when I draw. The thoughts of a 400 roaming the mountain really makes it exciting even though I will probably not get him.
My disagreement is that even though some units were 3-4 years old, the bulls being killed averaged 5-6 years old. This tells me the age objective was only a number. If those allocating tags truly try to meet these numbers quality will really suffer.
I just cannot see any way 20,000 hunters can hunt LE units that give 1500 tags 2 and 3 times in their life and expect to get big trophy bulls. Mathmatically it is not possible. I would think most hunters would like a Mountain Goat and Bighorn Sheep. The tag numbers do not support the wants of every hunter. The size of Utah bulls is what has everyone wanting to hunt them.
Another thought on this topic is that if Utah had a true preference point system, where would we be today? Would we be into the 8-9 point people? I do not know the answers. I want one crack at these big bulls. Then, I will lobby for those after me to get their chance at one.
Thanks for the good luck wishes in the draw. Good luck to you also. Maybe I will take you up on the pack out offer. I will make sure he is in a real good spot.;-)
I am good. And you?
I cannot say that I disagree with you except one point. You are right about the season split and percentage of tags removed from the early rut hunt. At first glance a person sees a new hunt with many more tags. These late season tags were taken from the early pool. The damage was not extreme late season.
I think the late hunt removed the bugles you hear in September, but the elk were near their winter range. This helped some hunters, while others had some difficulty.
The funny thing is that Utah elk hunters have created a stigma that every guy hunting gets a 380 bull. These bulls are taken by a small percentage of people. 350+ takes some work, scouting, and knowledge of what you are looking at and for. I hope I can connect on a 350+ when I draw. The thoughts of a 400 roaming the mountain really makes it exciting even though I will probably not get him.
My disagreement is that even though some units were 3-4 years old, the bulls being killed averaged 5-6 years old. This tells me the age objective was only a number. If those allocating tags truly try to meet these numbers quality will really suffer.
I just cannot see any way 20,000 hunters can hunt LE units that give 1500 tags 2 and 3 times in their life and expect to get big trophy bulls. Mathmatically it is not possible. I would think most hunters would like a Mountain Goat and Bighorn Sheep. The tag numbers do not support the wants of every hunter. The size of Utah bulls is what has everyone wanting to hunt them.
Another thought on this topic is that if Utah had a true preference point system, where would we be today? Would we be into the 8-9 point people? I do not know the answers. I want one crack at these big bulls. Then, I will lobby for those after me to get their chance at one.
Thanks for the good luck wishes in the draw. Good luck to you also. Maybe I will take you up on the pack out offer. I will make sure he is in a real good spot.;-)
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
I agree with your point for the most part. I believe the root of the problem is that the DWR manages off of what the hunters kill, not what the herd consists of. Year in and year out we have people killing small raghorns and spikes on these LE hunts. When that happens it skewes the "AGE" class up. The DWR looks at the teeth and says we have to cut tags or only allow a minimal increase because the average age of the bulls killed is only 4.3 when in fact we have a very old age class of bulls on the hoof. Most states manage off of bull to cow ratio and maybe that is not the answer either.
I feel for those who have not drawn yet and I also feel for those who said screw it and put in for a lesser hunt or unit due to frustration with the likely hood of drawing out. Maybe we should go to a once in a lifetime hunt. I know a guy who has drawn twice and is eligible again this year to try for number 3. Preferance points seem more fair to me as well!
I have rambled on long enough, I really hope you get your tags this year and kill a monster bull. They are out there and there are plenty of people on this site that would love to see you kill a pig! Have a great day!
Chad
I feel for those who have not drawn yet and I also feel for those who said screw it and put in for a lesser hunt or unit due to frustration with the likely hood of drawing out. Maybe we should go to a once in a lifetime hunt. I know a guy who has drawn twice and is eligible again this year to try for number 3. Preferance points seem more fair to me as well!
I have rambled on long enough, I really hope you get your tags this year and kill a monster bull. They are out there and there are plenty of people on this site that would love to see you kill a pig! Have a great day!
Chad
I have a feeling biologists should manage according to a variety of things rather than just numbers, age class if they want a healthy population of trophy bucks, bulls, or whatever. Colo is a case in pt that biologist manage the elk herd by elk numbers and bull:cow ratios without any consideration for age class.
Although hunters harvest an impressive number of elk in Colo each year and there are lots of tags available it is pretty tough to find 340+ bulls in any unit. If biologists managed a few Colo units by age class there would likely be a lot bigger bulls available in those units but it likely would take a lot longer to draw a tag...and hunters are already complaining how long it takes to draw the premium tags!
There nearly always is a trade off and it is pretty tough to please everyone. From what I've heard the very best limited elk units in Colo are only as good as many of the mediocre LE units in UT. I hunt a unit every couple of years where I can get 300 class bulls but a 330 would be considered a monster! I am chomping at the bit to draw a UT license so I have the opportunity of a lifetime to chase around 340+ bulls. The grass is always greener....? UT has a great thing going and I hope it continues!
I really like Colos pref pt system but each system tends to have its advantages and disadvantages. If you look at the draw stats you can pretty much figure out how many years it will take to draw a particular tag with the pref pt system. With UT bonus pt system it's pretty hard to say when you could draw through the random pool and each year guys with few bonus pts draw tags while applicants in the upper tier of bonus pts may not draw. It's a great deal for the guys with few pts that draw and a drag if you have max pts and can't draw.
Colo's premier elk units are so limited that the pref pts it takes to draw goes up by 1 every year and it is taking more and more years to draw these tags. If you are just getting started you might as well forget about ever drawing one of these tags unless Colo all of a sudden changes their draw system.
Colo's sheep and goat tags are super limited in number (similar to UT LE elk) but I believe it is one of the fairest systems for drawing tags. You have no chance of drawing sheep or goat tags until you accrue 3 pref pts. Once you have 3 pts your name is placed in the hat an additional time for each pt. Hunters that have already drawn sheep and goat tags and are successful must wait 5 years before they are eligable to apply. This means if you've harvested a goat and sheep you won't be able to draw another sheep or goat tag for at least 8 years. Young hunters or guys just starting out applying will have a chance of drawing once they get 3 pref pts. Seems fair to me!
Although hunters harvest an impressive number of elk in Colo each year and there are lots of tags available it is pretty tough to find 340+ bulls in any unit. If biologists managed a few Colo units by age class there would likely be a lot bigger bulls available in those units but it likely would take a lot longer to draw a tag...and hunters are already complaining how long it takes to draw the premium tags!
There nearly always is a trade off and it is pretty tough to please everyone. From what I've heard the very best limited elk units in Colo are only as good as many of the mediocre LE units in UT. I hunt a unit every couple of years where I can get 300 class bulls but a 330 would be considered a monster! I am chomping at the bit to draw a UT license so I have the opportunity of a lifetime to chase around 340+ bulls. The grass is always greener....? UT has a great thing going and I hope it continues!
I really like Colos pref pt system but each system tends to have its advantages and disadvantages. If you look at the draw stats you can pretty much figure out how many years it will take to draw a particular tag with the pref pt system. With UT bonus pt system it's pretty hard to say when you could draw through the random pool and each year guys with few bonus pts draw tags while applicants in the upper tier of bonus pts may not draw. It's a great deal for the guys with few pts that draw and a drag if you have max pts and can't draw.
Colo's premier elk units are so limited that the pref pts it takes to draw goes up by 1 every year and it is taking more and more years to draw these tags. If you are just getting started you might as well forget about ever drawing one of these tags unless Colo all of a sudden changes their draw system.
Colo's sheep and goat tags are super limited in number (similar to UT LE elk) but I believe it is one of the fairest systems for drawing tags. You have no chance of drawing sheep or goat tags until you accrue 3 pref pts. Once you have 3 pts your name is placed in the hat an additional time for each pt. Hunters that have already drawn sheep and goat tags and are successful must wait 5 years before they are eligable to apply. This means if you've harvested a goat and sheep you won't be able to draw another sheep or goat tag for at least 8 years. Young hunters or guys just starting out applying will have a chance of drawing once they get 3 pref pts. Seems fair to me!
archery01
Member
- Messages
- 62
Average age has good pts and bad pts. I think the biggest problem with this is hunter's Knowledge. One year you get 90% of the people who draw never set foot on the unit, the next you get everybody who knows the unit good. Also a lot of people dont spend a lot of time around elk and realize the difference in body mass between a 6 year vs. 9+ year old bull. A 6 year old sporting a 330 rack can appear as big as a 9 year old that's 360 class, unless there standing next to each other.
I drew a archery tag after 18 years. I did not get the bull I was after but the hunt was great. If I draw again I would not want to have the hunt any less than it was. If that means never drawing again then so be it. But when the rest of my family draws I would like them to have the same experince I had. I can have a chance @ a rag-horn every year in the uintas.
I drew a archery tag after 18 years. I did not get the bull I was after but the hunt was great. If I draw again I would not want to have the hunt any less than it was. If that means never drawing again then so be it. But when the rest of my family draws I would like them to have the same experince I had. I can have a chance @ a rag-horn every year in the uintas.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
I DON'T KNOW WHO archery01 IS BUT MAYBE YOU OUGHT TO READ HIS POST!!!
MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME AS I'VE PRIORLY PREACHED!!!
AS HE MENTIONS SO TO SPEAK:I'VE DRAWED THIS L.E. ELK PERMIT,CAN YA'LL TELL ME WHERE I CAN SHOOT A 360"+ BULL OUT THE TRUCK WINDOW!!!
OR!!!
EVERYBODY THAT PULLS THE TAG BRINGS 6-8 FRIENDS WITH THEM & THEY TROUNCE THE UNIT!!!
THIS GUY EVEN 'CARES' WHAT MASS IS ALL ABOUT,IT DON'T HAPPEN IN 3-4 YEARS!!!
HE EVEN KNOWS OF THE YEARLY OPPORTUNITY ELSEWHERE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING THERES ALOT OF 'QUIET' MEMBERS & LURKERS NOT ADMITTING THEY'RE USING THE ODDS & THE LATE HUNTS TO THEY'RE ADVANTAGE,THEY MIGHT NOT ADMIT TO IT BUT WAIT TILL WE SEE WHICH TAG THEY PULL!!!
MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME AS I'VE PRIORLY PREACHED!!!
AS HE MENTIONS SO TO SPEAK:I'VE DRAWED THIS L.E. ELK PERMIT,CAN YA'LL TELL ME WHERE I CAN SHOOT A 360"+ BULL OUT THE TRUCK WINDOW!!!
OR!!!
EVERYBODY THAT PULLS THE TAG BRINGS 6-8 FRIENDS WITH THEM & THEY TROUNCE THE UNIT!!!
THIS GUY EVEN 'CARES' WHAT MASS IS ALL ABOUT,IT DON'T HAPPEN IN 3-4 YEARS!!!
HE EVEN KNOWS OF THE YEARLY OPPORTUNITY ELSEWHERE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THINKING THERES ALOT OF 'QUIET' MEMBERS & LURKERS NOT ADMITTING THEY'RE USING THE ODDS & THE LATE HUNTS TO THEY'RE ADVANTAGE,THEY MIGHT NOT ADMIT TO IT BUT WAIT TILL WE SEE WHICH TAG THEY PULL!!!
