Utah apps question

COSA · Jan 17, 2006

If a NR unit only has a 1 tag quoata, does it go to the max. point holder or the random draw?

saxon · Jan 17, 2006

Cosa,
it should go in the random draw.

WARBIRDUM · Jan 17, 2006

LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-06 AT 08:49PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-06 AT 07:58?PM (MST)

If I was a non-resident and had high points I would never put in for a unit that only gives 1 permit for that unit.
The answer to this question is yes the max point holder would have better odds to draw the tag but no it would not gaurantee him the permit.
Dont ever put in for units if you have high points that will only be giving 1 permit.On another note you will not know until the drawing is held how many permits they will give on any given unit.
It is a gamble but I would go for a unit that you know should have at least 2 or more with high points this gives the higher point holders 50% of the tags.

COSA · Jan 17, 2006

Well I got a few points, but not enough. I wish I could switch those points over to deer or antelope, but I'm to deep in now to abandon ship. Just wondering if I put in for a unit that only has one NR tag, that I have a prayer at drawing.

nvlonghunter · Jan 17, 2006

COSA, Think positive and the tags will come.I am in the same situation as a NR with only 4 elk bonus points.I put in for the muzzleloader hunts and I feel I have a chance to draw.

Look at the 2005 draw odds for NR Muzzleloader:

Hunt# # tags bonus Points that drew
382 1 4
383 1 2
388 3 max points
4
0
390 3 max points
4
4
398 1 4
399 1 5

Plus they added two more units.God luck

Glen

nvlonghunter · Jan 17, 2006

WOW!!! sorry, that did not display like i wanted it to hope you can understand it.

Glen

woodruffhunter · Jan 18, 2006

Warbird,

I am not saying you are wrong. However, my understanding was that if only 1 permit is available it is a random draw. My understanding was that 1/2 the tags went to max points holders, the other half was random.

Someone please educate me. Thanks

DallanC · Jan 18, 2006

LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-06 AT 04:38PM (MST)[p]>Warbird,
>
>I am not saying you are
>wrong. However, my understanding was
>that if only 1 permit
>is available it is a
>random draw. My understanding
>was that 1/2 the tags
>went to max points holders,
>the other half was random.
>
>
>Someone please educate me. Thanks

This is correct.

Technically any "fractional value" when you take the total / 2 is rounded up and that is the number of tags that go into the RANDOM draw. Bonus points people get the total number minus whatever the random got.

Example:

10 tags avail = 10 / 2 = 5 to go into random, 10 - 5 =5 to go to Bonus points people

11 tags avail = 11 / 2 = 5.5 which rounds up to 6, goes into random, 11 - 6 = 5 to go to Bonus points people

1 tag avail = 1 / 2 = .5 which rounds up to 1 that then goes into random, 1 - 1 = 0 to go to Bonus points people

Make sence?

-DallanC

WARBIRDUM · Jan 18, 2006

What I am trying to say is Never put in for a unit that only gives 1 permit if you have alot of points.Go for a unit you know they will be giving 2 or more permits in.50% of the permits will be going to the highest point holders.This will increase your odds alot.
If you have say 13 points and put in for an area only giving 1 permit you will be in the same boat as everyone one else EXCEPT WITH YOUR HIGH POINTS YOUR CHANCE TO DRAW THE 1 PERMIT WILL INCREASE A LITTLE because you have say13 chances to draw the low number that pulls the permit.
Notice on odds sheets alot of areas that only give one permit more times than not a guy with low points will draw the permit.Does this make sense? Use your high points wisely and go for a unit that will be giving 2 or more permits like I said.
If I am wrong please someone with the correct info.inform me on this.I have been told this over and over and over.

I need to use a lifeline.
KTC Correct me if I am wrong,
Thanks,
The Bird

COSA · Jan 18, 2006

Thanks, since I only have 4 points, I'll be putting in for one of the areas with only 1 tag since the odds are similar to units with more than 1 tag.

WARBIRDUM · Jan 18, 2006

That is a good plan with only 4 points.Those with high points will be looking to put in for areas that have 2 permits or more and know produce huge bulls every year.
Good Luck....

ktc · Jan 18, 2006

You and Dallan hit it on the head bird.

Clear as mud.;-)

rutnbuck · Jan 18, 2006

I would go for the 1 tag unit. Especially if you have lot of points. More so for NR. Because the number of applicants are not as high. Even though you are random. If you have enough points you have better odds then the rest. I did it last year 1 tag I draw 1 monster bull.
rut

woodruffhunter · Jan 19, 2006

I appreciate the replies. However I still do not believe that if you are applying for an area with one tag, and have 13 points, you have "13 chances" as compared to someone with 1 point?

I believe, from what I read is that you have the exact same odds with 1 point or 20???

Again, I am not saying I am right rather I would like to know for sure.

I do agree with what cosa said in regards to the "max" bonus point holders.

Thanks again

albubba · Jan 19, 2006

When you apply to the draw you are assigned a number for each bonus point you have and retain the lowest number. The lowest numbers draw the tags. So the more points that you have, the more opportunity you have to draw a low number. If you have 13 point you get 13 chances at drawing a low number so that increases your odds. You are correct about the 1 tag thing. It is not given to the highest points group, its put into the random draw.

WARBIRDUM · Jan 19, 2006

woodruffhunter,
That is what I am trying to explain to you exactly what albubba is saying.The more points you have, this will better your odds of drawing the low number to draw the 1 permit.This does not gaurantee you the permit.Now if the unit has 2 permits one of those permits will go to the high point people.This can increase the odds.As far as drawing the 1 permit with high points it does happen dont get me wrong all I am saying I think your odds go up with 2 or more permits if you have max points and it all depends which unit you want.

woodruffhunter · Jan 19, 2006

Warbird,

I appreciate the help and did understand what you said. I guess I never quite understood the points system. Before I thought that if you didn't have max points, you were in the same boat as everyone else.

I thought that if for example there were 10 tags, 5 of those would go to the max points holder (Lets say the max points holders all had 13).

The other 5 tags would go the reamaining group. And it would not matter whether they had 9 points or 1 point, they would all have the exact same odds.

However, you guys did a good job setting me straight. Its sound as if the odds would be slightly increased with more points.

Thanks again

rutnbuck · Jan 19, 2006

Now that you are a lot smarter. Just draw a good tag! good luck. Now just try to outsmart Bobcat ktc and the system and we will wait to see the big buck /bull
Rut

WARBIRDUM · Jan 19, 2006

rutnbuck,
Only 22 residents put in for your Summit Point elk hunt and you had 11 points in 2005.It looks like it did work for you being the leader in points for that CWMU ELK hunt.Congrats.
Please send photo of your monster bull you harvested I think everyone on Mm would like to see it. I know I would.
Thanks,
The Bird

woodruffhunter · Jan 19, 2006

Rut,

I already cashed in my bonus points for elk. I guess its deer now. I'm sure I won't be able to walk by the time I draw.

rutnbuck · Jan 19, 2006

Well Woody
So did I. I kind of miss my elk points. We might as well go fishing are they catching any up at Woodruff pond? ! I wonder how long it is till ya have to draw a fish tag?
Rut