Springville RAC Meeting

elkhunter4

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Is anyone going to the RAC meeting in Springville tonight to complain about the huge increase in LE elk tags the DWR is recommending for the wasatch and manti units?

A few of us are going and I hope others are too.

EH4
 
I'm going to try to make it. We need to let the DWR know that they're proposing WAY TOO MANY TAGS FOR THE MANTI AND WASATCH!

If I don't make it, let them know Prism is pissed if they go with the proposed numbers.
 
I'll be there, but I won't be complaining about the increase in tags. I'll be there to complain about the 70% decrease in the number of late tags (by the way that's where about 40 of the new early season tags came from). The DWR decided to increase tags for the Wasatch 40% accross the board except for the late where they decreased it by 70% and added those tags to the early hunt. This information would have been useful while you and I were trying to decide what to put in for or at least before the deadline to amend our applications.

Look at the numbers and this increase represents a small increase on the herd (84 new tags to be exact). The population estimate for the Wasatch Units is 31,200. Lets assume only a third of that number are bulls...that would mean there are more than 10,000 bulls on the Wasatch. If only 10% of those bulls represented trophy class bulls that is still over 1,000 bulls you or I would be willing to shoot. 84 bulls is not going to be the death toll for the Wasatch.

I spend a lot of time on the Wasatch and a significant amoutn of time last fall hunting the it with a couple friends who had tags. I have sat in one spot and watched over 100 bulls less than 800 yards away. The biggest concern I had was not the lack of bulls, but comparitavley how few cows there were in comparison. Last year during the heat of the rut I didn't see any bull with more than 6-8 cows, and saw a lot a very nice bulls with no cows at all. If anything the Wasatch has an overabundance of mature bulls.
 
Dahlmer,

I agree with you about the reduction of late elk tags!

One of my concerns is not that there isn't enough bulls to shoot on the wasatch, but when you double the tags, you are going to have alot more people out there which is going to significantly reduce the quality of the hunt. In the past you haven't seen alot of elk hunters, when you double the tags that will change.

I think they should have at least left the late tags the same if not increased them!

See you in Springville!

EH4
 
I also agree with the increase.

What I ahve heard about the late hunt on the Wasatch is it didn't work out quiet as hoped. The average age of bulls killed was higher than the early hunt, thus more pressure was placed on the older age classes. I know that a couple herds were moved lower, into private land and houses, which the DWR does not want. These 2 reasons may have been a cause to reduce tag numbers. Of course some of this is hearsay from people I know who talked with a biologist.

But how would an extra 100 hunters reduce the experience? It never was meant to be an "alone" hunt. I think it is good to have a little competition.

I can't wait to hear from the biolgists concerning the hunts. Let the people hunt......
 
The meeting was such a joke. Here everyone was talking about slowly offering tags not blowing it out of the water and did they listen. Hell no, only a few were willing to help and another seemed like he had his own personal reason for late tags. But they just pushed right through and didnt care what the majority wanted. All the old guys kept saying its getting late we need to go and just didnt want to explore options. I feel like if they cant give 100% to the job get the hell off the board.
 
whs,

Was it Miles Moretti? What a moron. Mr. Anyone With a Sharp Stick Can Kill A 380 Bull? I listened to his drivil down south. He was giving his experience making Horn Soup like anyone gave a crap.

Half of those guys need a job with PETA.
 
I missed the meeting.

So what came of the whole deal?

Doesn't sound like things went too well???

Any tag numbers???

I thought "the boys" were gonna take care of things and put a kabosh to this whole crazy tag increase deal on the Wasatch and Manti????

What about the deer numbers? Will Utah continue be one of the absolute worst general deer hunt states in the West??? Did they decrease or increase the tags anywhere?
 
They approved all recommendations for all species as the DWR presented them...160 ER, 10 LATE on the Wasatch, etc.

They didnt have the nuts to reduce the deer tags...i cant believe the division doesnt recommend fewer general buck tags...but oh well.

-RPinenut
 
At least the UDWR is sticking to thier plan instead of changing the plan every two years based on who is screaming the loudest at the time.

On the Northeast unit last year the numbers showed that the general deer tags needed to be reduced, so they reduced them. This year the numbers showed the tags could be increased so they increased them per the plan.

The elk showed that they can handle more tags so they gave more tags.

At the very least it makes sense per the plan they are working under.
 
Prism,

"The Boys" spoke their mind last night and the overwhelming majority said to drop the number of tags that are being recommended by the DWR on the manti and wasatch.

The vote came and passed 7-3 (i think) to use the recommendations as they were. Then John Blair on the RAC said, that he was appalled of what they just did, they didn't listen to the public and they failed in doing their job. Even Ed Kent (the chairman) said "John, I have to agree with you". Then, they went on and didn't do anything with the deer tags either!

It was totally amazing to watch these "clowns" on the board supposedly listen to what the public has to say, then vote exactly the opposite! I think it's time some of these old boys on the board be removed!

EH4
 
Good for John Bair, Ed Kent, and "The Boys." That asinine elk plan passed in unfavorable conditions and it is obvious that the majority thinks the current elk plan sucks.
 
I thought I heard that the RAC in the Northeast Region did not approve the DWR's recommendation to increase the general deer tags in the North East region. If this is the case, I think that is a good deal, since the buck/doe ratio is 15 (barely in the 15-20 range, which is the state objective).

I also thought that the DWR recommendation for the Central region was to keep general deer permit #'s the same as last year, since the buck/doe ratio is less than 15. Since the tags were cut in the Central region by 1,000 last year, that would mean that the DWR's proposal was to stick with the 1,000 cut in tags this year in the Central region. Which I a gree with.

As for the elk tag increases, well.......we all know the DWR is doing that to follow the elk plan, which lowered the age objectives in the LE units. We all knew that the lower age objectives in the elk plan would mean an increase of bull tags to be compliant. Maybe we ought to look at those people who are at the heart of the change in the age objectives in the LE units. Am I correct in remembering that there were a large group of hunters that cryed to the Division that they will never have the opportunity to hunt a LE elk unit? Didn't they want less quality and more opportunity? I thought I remembered a debate about this issue not too long ago and the guys that wanted more elk hunting opportunity won out. Hence, the lowered age objectives, and thus the increase in tags. I don' think the DWR is to blame on this one. It seems to me they are just following whats currently in the plan. The real issue here is getting those age objectives back up. We do that, and you'll see a decrease in tags.
 
I was at the Central RAC and there were probably 300-400 people there. I found it interesting that only 6-8 guys got up to speak against the increases, a couple for the increases, and a couple against the late Wasatch numbers. After the decision was made, there were over 300 mad people, yet only 6-8 spoke against it. Why so few? If they really wanted to see less permits then why didn't they speak up? Good old Utah Hunter Apathy. Whine, whine, whine, but don't step up to the plate (or the mic). Kudos to those who spoke their minds........

I really don't have a firm opinion on it. I think that we need increases, but how many is too many. I don't have the answers, but I think we could shoot more bulls than we are currently shooting.
 
I was at the southern RAC and voiced my opinion. They did the same thing down there. In one ear and out the other. Maybe this is why Utah Hunter Apathy is so strong. 7-3 was the vote there?

What good does speaking your mind do when Miles Moretti is supposed to be listening?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-06 AT 11:20PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-06 AT 11:19?PM (MST)

The northern RAC suggested an increase of 20% instead of 30% on LE elk. about 100 or more people there, me and three others said something.
 
Argueing against the tag increase is a tough sell, when the elk herds in the LE units are way over the age objectives in the elk plan. Increase the age objectives back up to where they were a year ago, and I bet we'll see a decrease in tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-06 AT 09:13PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-06 AT 09:12?PM (MST)

Here's what Don said happened at the SE rac meeting. From SFW web site.
(The SE RAC recommended slight increases on the SE Elk units. The SE RAC voted to increase San Juan permits by 7 over last year, with these permits in the late rifle, 7 on the Lasal, and 20 on the Manti - 5 permits in each season. The DWR had proposed some 332 permits on the Manti, the RAC recommendation came in at 240.)
If this is the case the big increase on the manti didn't happen. But it doesn't sound like the central rac had the balls to follow suit with the Wasatch. I guess well find out in a few weeks what all went down.
Evan
 
I was there.

MDF stood up and supported what the se rac supported on the Manti, infact MDF apparently got the se rac to go with their proposal.They also supported about 20 permit increase on the wasatch.

Noone from SFW from my recolection stood up and supported what MDF did. Infact when it came to a motion John Bear (sfw president and rac member) proposed 10 permits. When a rac member asked why he did that when it wouldn't translate into many dead bulls John said "thats the point. The rac then got pissed and passed the dwr numbers.

If someone remembers it different let us know, but I think John Bear screwed up with his motion. Hopefully they won't be that dumb at the board meeting.

Todd
 
What a bunch of buffoons. An increase of 7 tags on the San Juan. No really, is the SE RAC serious?? Talk about the inmates running the asylum. A unit which has a 1 to 1 bull cow ratio and the SE RAC wants to give only 7 more tags?.? There are approx 100 bulls for every 100 cows. Then the Southern RAC only wants 90 permits on the Fish Lake, which had a hard count of over 800 branch antlered bulls on it. I think there are some units which may have been increased too much, but most of these units can handle a lot more pressure.

Why did MDF not support the increased tags? I thought they would want to curtail some of the competition for Mule Deer.
 
I spoke my mind at the meeting and thought John was trying to help the sportsmans opinion. I to am for an increase in tags but not to the extend that they want to do. The problem with the Manti and Wasatch units are the general season hunts and the cow hunts. Take that into count we really have no idea what the impact was done on last years herd. We could have really put a hurt on and not know it yet.

I do like what John said about finding other ways of managing an elk herd. He did say other states offer more tags and have just as good as elk. A good example of this is Arizona. They give out like 7000 thousand tags a year and have less animals in their elk herd then Utah does, the reason for this is no general season spike tags and very limited cow tags. I know people would be mad at first on no general season but now they get to hunt more then one limited entry elk in their life and now we still have a chance at growing big elk.

My friends are in their late 20's and have had limited entry elk tags in Arizona twice. And they still have lots of years left to get another tag.
 

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