Wa bull permits cut.

Craig · Mar 28, 2006

Man I was looking at the proposals for the new hunting regs and the two units I hunt elk in are getting cut hard.

2005 bull permits total for the two units - 98 permits
2006 bull permits total for the two units - 16 permits.

Wish me luck. For rifle, bow and muzzleloader There were only about 5,700 people that applyed for those permits last year.

time2hunt · Mar 29, 2006

And we better be careful and not say anything or we will piss certain people off.but I really like it when I can't even hunt in my own back yard(naneum unit).But it will make a nice private hunting reserve for other people.

FALCON · Mar 29, 2006

Craig,

I hear ya. I live in Enumclaw.The game dept is making the White River GMU permit only for elk. Its all about the indians.

CAN YOU SAY THE TRIBE HAS SPOKEN?

Crunchy · Mar 29, 2006

Yes, but there are going to be 75 permits for it. I hunt 653 so I am kinda bummed about it. What can you do?

FALCON · Mar 29, 2006

Crunchy:

I also saw 75 permits. They updated the permit levels to 23.
I haven't hunted that area for years, but I like it as a backup when we get a heavy snowfall. As far as what you can do, how about putting on some war paint! lol

On a serious note, I have a good contact with the game dept who is a good friend. He said converting this unit to a permit area is on a trial basis, and if the tribes start killing cows, they have the option of taking away the permit only status just like they did to the Dickey gmu afew years back when the tribes took advantage of the closure and pretty much wiped out a good part of that population. When you think about it, nobody wins in this kinda situation, especially the ELK!!!!

ridgerunner · Mar 29, 2006

That's not good news, only another week and they will make the final determination on permit levels here.

Muleyslyr · Mar 29, 2006

It's fuggin' BS!! I've been waiting 6 years for my elk area, and have a more than better chance at drawing it this year, and now I don't know if they're even gonna have any tags for the unit. What a crock!!

Wonder if I should hord my points or put in for a different area....one I could have drawn probably twice by now. What a waste that would be. x(

groundhog · Mar 29, 2006

I have nine points and my brother has 17(ten from catching a poacher)and do you think we can draw a tag??? NADA...I think it is great that we finally have some big bulls but it would be nice to draw a tag one of these years. I have to admit it is almost worth not drawing the tag to be able to pick up some huge sheds! One of these days......

Groundhog

polarbear · Mar 29, 2006

Guys, you dont have to rely on drawing a "special permit" to get a nice bull. Rid yourself of the agravation and spend some quality time scouting. There are tons of great bull on public land and general hunting units. The same goes with deer. I quit putting in for bull tags years ago. I hunt archery, so any decent tag that I might draw is subject to fire danger closures. To me, it is not worth the hassle. Now moose, sheep and goat permits, now thats another story! Haaahaaa..

Luck is for those who lack skill and determination.
Eric

Crunchy · Mar 29, 2006

Falcon:

23 Permits? Good lord what a joke. That area is the back-up to my back-up. I was stuck hunting the Greenwater area last year, when I got snowed out of my first two areas. Now I am not sure what I will have to do. I was finally feeling comfortable with the area, and now I have to start all over. I wouldnt waiste permit points and put in for 653.

groundhog · Mar 30, 2006

In Washington almost all units are on a draw basis, if you want to hunt branched bulls you need to draw a tag. So you can scout till the cows come home and it is not going to do any good. There are a few units that are "any elk" but most of these are areas with very few elk and in places where the Game Department doesn't want Elk. I have been hunting and scouting)these any Elk units for years and believe me when I say that they are not the best units for monster bulls.
In defense of Washingtons Elk program we have more huge Bulls now then ever before, so in some respects the system is working. Knowing what kind of Bulls we are growing here in Washington if I draw the tag I will hold out for a 350 plus bull or eat my tag. Knowing the unit like I do I feel the I would have a better chance of getting the job done here in Washington than going to say Arizona on a exspensive guided hunt. Where are you from Polar bear?? I am guessing Idaho, since I think it has a lot of great over the counter public hunting for big bulls. Good luck huntin. Oops, thats right, you don't need any

Groundhog

DirtyTough · Mar 30, 2006

There are alot of big bulls in the westside units that are open for 3 point or better. I know a guy who shot a 300 class bull the last three years on the westside. I know its not a 350 plus bull but he just builds his points every year and still shoots a good bull. Not trying to argue just saying there is some decent hunting. I wish it was better but it is what it is. DT

groundhog · Mar 30, 2006

You are right DT. I have a friend that hunts the westside and does ok on good bulls. In my post I was thinking about the eastside. The only problem is if you want to put in for an eastside special permit then you can't hunt the west side. If I didn't have so many points I would be hunting the westside units for sure. There are some huge bulls that migrate out of the Yakima Indian Reservation, into the Klickitat river area and some of them like it so much they stay year around. It is thick country but at least if you see a big bull you can take him.
I am not complaining, I think it is cool that we are growing some truly world class elk here in the state of Washington!! This spring I was watching one group of bulls that had four bulls from 360 to over 400 inches!! If someone had told me this just a few years ago I would seriously doubted them. Our bulls on the eastside are really growing up!! I just hope to some day draw the tag. In the mean time I will be happy picking up there sheds and hunting the "any Elk" units and going out of state.

The best of luck to you! Groundhog

hunterofelk · Mar 30, 2006

Groundhog, when your done hunting sheds this year, please post some pictures. A lot of us like to look at the big Washington elk sheds. I've been out a couple of weekends with no sheds found yet, but I'd like to see your pick-ups.

ridgerunner · Mar 30, 2006

Polarbear is right on the Western side of the state, the number of big bull tags seems overally restrictive considering most hunts are only a 40-45% success once the big bull tag has been drawn.

polarbear · Mar 30, 2006

Groundhog... I forgot to mention that I only hunt archery on the "wet"side of the state for bulls. The opportunities are much better imho. There are a ton of great bulls that "wander" out of areas like the rezervations and closed gmus. It just takes a little homework and time to figure out where they are. My 350+ bull from last year was one of those that migrated out of a restricted area (by many miles). We hunt St. Helens a lot and have shot some monsters that had strayed out of the Loo-Wit unit. A friend of mine with the WDFW told me that the potential world record cascade Roosevelt is living in the Loo-Wit and the same goes for a record Rocky on the Hanford Rez. Those bad boys venture out on occasion.
Falcon... Do you remember a few years back when the WDFW, with "cooperation" with the tribe, moved something like 39 elk into the White River unit? They were supposed to be bringing back the herd to a more healthy level. Within 72 hours, cougars had killed 2 calves. Within a couple of monthe tribal members had killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 of those transplanted elk. Now that is Tribal game management at it's finest! They transplanted more up there last year or the year before from St. Helens and Oakville. I havent heard if they have decimated them yet or not. It is a good thing that our "public" herds are doing so well, so that we can afford to keep moving good ,healthy animals onto tribal land to help sustain their hunting traditions and for cerimonial purposes. You would think that with all that money that they are raking in from the casinos, they would no longer have to rely on our wildlife for sustenance. But I'm not bitter! Haaahaaaaa....

Luck is for those who lack skill and determination.
Eric

groundhog · Mar 31, 2006

Polarbear,
I am sure your friend from the WDFW is correct. I have spent a lot of time hunting and scouting around the Hanford Res. Hanford has lots of huge bulls! I have seen many that will go well over 400 inches. They do stray off from time to time. Tough to find a place to hunt and to predict when they will stray off. You have to be out there checking on a daily basis. Over the last five years my brothers and I have taken three bulls and all have had broken tines. If they were not broke up they would go from 315 to 370! By the way I found all three of these Bulls and didn't harvest any, but that's huntin. Sounds like you took a great bull with your bow!! Congratulations!! I have taken a half a dozen decent bulls with a bow but no big guys. Been trying to draw a WA muzzleloader tag lately and been hunting out of state with a bow. The Yakima Indians have been coming over to E-burg and shooting our big bulls all winter. I heard two weeks ago they shot four big bulls and one was over 350. They were stopped by a State Trooper at 9:30am with four whole bulls in two trucks. The trooper called a WDFW agent and he said to take their names and let them go. I predict that if something isn't done soon to stop them, it is going to get out of control. I know locals that are talking about taking matters into their own hands. It could get real ugly if something isn't done. Groundhog

kirkl · Mar 31, 2006

Ground Hog, where you from. Sound like your over here in the Yakima area.

groundhog · Mar 31, 2006

Kirkl, I am from Ellensburg.
Hunterofelk, not sure if I want to post any pic's of sheds. But I may decide too. If I don't post them here, I will send you a PM with some pic's.We have found some good ones!! Groundhog

ridgerunner · Mar 31, 2006

Send me a pm too.....while you are at it.

ELKMASTER101 · Mar 31, 2006

YOU GUYS THINK THATS BAD, AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPPERTUNITY TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT.
we don't,
Us white people shot all of them here (where i live) long ago.
I want to introduce the wolf and the griz and elk back into the country they use to be so abundent in, the heart land of our country "Iowa".
to eat or be eaten, that would be the question on a lot of joggers minds.
Would love to shoot a wild piggy also.
polar bear on dog sled with a harpoon would be a hair standing rush.

polarbear · Mar 31, 2006

Hey now! What did I ever do to you? Haahaaa... My dream is to someday take a monster polar bear with my bow. I have a friend that did it, but it was tiny (about 400 lbs). He couldnt take the elements and stuck the first bear that presented a shot.

Eric

groundhog · Mar 31, 2006

ELKMASTER101, I don't feel very sorry for you!

I have had the good fortune of hunting the great state of Iowa several times. Who are you trying to kid? You have some of the biggest Whitetails in the world!! Man, when it comes to big heavy bucks you got em!! Sittin in that tree stand in the freezin cold can get a little tough but when it all comes together....
My Dad took a 176 inch buck two years ago and last year we were hunting a big buck and it got hit by the farmers wife's truck while chasing a doe at night, during our hunt. The Taxidermist measured it at 194. His tracks were every where but we hadn't seen him as he had gone nocturnal on us. A few Griz and Elk might be cool but you don't want the wolves!
Hey Polarbear, I don't know if this is fact but I heard that Fred Bear had to try six times to get his white bear, as the first five charged after he stuck em and had to be finished off with a back up rifle. It sounds a little far fetched but I know Polarbears are a different creature than other bears. I have also heard that a good technique in hunting them is to position yourself up wind and wait. They will come to you, looking for a meal. Sounds like a dangerous game to me. Groundhog

polarbear · Mar 31, 2006

Yep. They are supposed to be the only animal that will actively track and kill a human out of curiosity.

Eric

motcha · Apr 1, 2006

It is real sad to hear about the overharvesting of animals by Tribal hunters. I think the most tribes are limited on what they can harvest. And to speak from an actual working Casino, we make money true, but we also spend it a lot on local organizations and taxes. The Department of Natural Res and F&G get some money but that is after all other departments get their share. the casino is tribal owned, but there are a lot of State and federal sanctions that have a lock on fees and misc expenses taxes etc.

clyde · Apr 1, 2006

My favorite unit was lost, but not to worry, plenty of places to hunt and like polarbear said, scout, and find them big ol bulls. learn new areas, sounds like an adventure.

TheHunt · Apr 2, 2006

East sides taking matters into their own hands.

About seven years ago there was a huge issue with the Puyallup Indians going to Packwood to hunt elk. Well the locals started to taking shots at the indians as well as shooting their trucks. The Feds were called in to help the situation. There was a large meeting and the locals trashed the indians and told them if they want to hunt use their traditional gear knock your self out. If we see you with a rifle we will take care of you...

The bottom line was the indians thought long an hard when they went up to hunt. They also had a huge law enforcement group with them. Thus it made more difficult for them to hunt. This also keeps them on the up and up...

Please read that I don't approve of this activity but it sure made a difference in Packwood.

groundhog · Apr 3, 2006

RE: East sides taking matters into their own hands.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that! The potential is certainly there. I remember about ten years ago some Indians actually shot some animals that were being fed in a WDFW Feeding area. Within any group of people you are going to have a few bad apples that abuse the system. There was a lot of very upset people.
If I remember right the Indians (I think it was the Yakima's) realized the potential for conflict and voted to make it against tribal law to harvest game near a WDFW feeding area.
It was a smart move on their part. I wish we could get them to make it against tribal law to harvest bull elk off of the reservation, or get them to establish a season on bulls. I think people would be much more tolerant if the Indians were only taking cow elk. If they are really harvesting animals for the meat we all know a two year old cow eats better than a eight year old bull. Groundhog

NoBark · Apr 3, 2006

RE: East sides taking matters into their own hands.

How about this novel approach.

Make the tribal law so that each tribal member has to kill their own elk. Market hunting for the masses did-in a few species and would have done in alot more if it wasn't stopped.
Don't see much difference between the two activities.

ridgerunner · Apr 3, 2006

RE: East sides taking matters into their own hands.

I like the idea of getting some not so positive publicity going for those tribes/individuals that are doing this. Maybe a news report or commerical or a big write up in one of the major papers in the state. Complete with lots of pictures of big mature animals stacked like cordwood in the back of some brand new 2006 truck.

Too bad the indians in this state don't wise up and make their reservations into profit centers for big game. The Yakima's and Colville's could have some awesome hunting and bring in some serious money if they would manage their reservations better.

kirkl · Apr 3, 2006

RE: East sides taking matters into their own hands.

One of my theories on indian hunting is that they are lazy and there are not that many roads on the rez through the forrested areas, they dont like to get out and walk so they go off the rez where we have thousands of roads through our national forrest and state land and can shoot them right from the truck. At least it looks that way for the Yakima rez.

Just my theory.

polarbear · Apr 3, 2006

RE: East sides taking matters into their own hands.

I have ridden in on horseback into some pretty remote parts of the Colville rez and there are some monster bucks that have never seen a human. As said before, most of the tribal "hunting" that I have witnessed, was done from a motor vehicle. One of the guys that I worked with at the brewery is a Squaxin and loved to brag about driving up to St. Helens and hunt monster bulls out of his brand new truck. There is a pic in a little store in Randle of him and his brother with 5 6x6 and 6x7 bulls piled up like wood in the back of his truck. He drove around with the heads of those bulls in his truck for close to 4 months just to piss off the local hunters.

Eric