Elk refuge

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WyoElkHunter

Guest
Has anyone else heard about what's going on the elk refuge in Wyoming? I saw an article in the local paper that said the feds were starving the elk instead of feeding them. I guess if its the feds nothing surprises me. I found this website too www.elkfeed.com. Some pretty interesting stuff there.

A friend of mine told me about your site here and I'm glad I checked it out. IT's great to be able to talk to other hunters from all over the place.
 
This is what happens when we put too much trust in government agencies with little if any oversite and accountablity from the general public. Hope SFW can save these elk from the tards in charge of taking care of these animals.
 
WELCOME WYOELKHUNTER, YOU WILL HAVE FUN HERE. I JUST FINNISHED THAT GTNP ELK HUNT, ITS NOTICEABLE THAT THE HERD SIZE IS WAY DOWN. THE BIG HERDS NEVER CAME, & THE WEATHER NEVER GOT BAD ENUFF BEFORE THE SEASON WAS OVER. HAD ALOT OF FUN THOUGH, YD.
 
>
> WELCOME
>WYOELKHUNTER, YOU WILL HAVE
>FUN HERE. I
>JUST FINNISHED THAT GTNP ELK
>HUNT, ITS NOTICEABLE THAT
>THE HERD SIZE IS WAY
>DOWN. THE BIG
>HERDS NEVER CAME, & THE
>WEATHER NEVER GOT BAD ENUFF
>BEFORE THE SEASON WAS OVER.
>HAD ALOT OF FUN THOUGH,
>YD.


How is it noticable that the numbers were down if they never showed up? Because you didn't see as many as usual? Could that have had something to do with the nice weather?

I never could figure out why the elk were fed in Jackson anyway. If the land can't sustain the population doesn't that mean that they are over populated?
 
Have you ever been to Jackson? With all the trophy homes taking up all the flat lands and southern exposed hillsides it would be a helleva wreck if the elk were not fed....just to keep them in the feed area.

It seems to me like feeding them helps make up for the vast amount of development that has occurred in the area.
 
>Have you ever been to Jackson?
> With all the trophy
>homes taking up all the
>flat lands and southern exposed
>hillsides it would be a
>helleva wreck if the elk
>were not fed....just to keep
>them in the feed area.
>
>
>It seems to me like feeding
>them helps make up for
>the vast amount of development
>that has occurred in the
>area.

A couple times... ;-)

How many homes have been built on the refuge?
 
I NEVER SAW THE BIG VISIBLE HERDS DURING THE DAY LIKE IN OTHER YEARS, ALOT OF ELK MOVE IN AT NIGHT. THE PARK COUNT WAS AT 96% WHEN I LEFT. YD.
 
YukonDall, How did you do on your hunt in the park, thinking about appling this year. Was it a DIY hunt?
 
Welcome to the site!

This is a huge issue. Some people are pushing for complete elimination of elk feeding. It seems that the manager of the National Elk Refuge is bent on playing his role as well.

Not only are they trying to feed everything to the wolves they are now trying to eliminate feeding them. Doesn't anyone else seem to see their goal. It appears very clear to me that they are successfully ending our long held western heritage of hunting.

No one else is going to fight this fight. If hunters want to be able to hunt they had better get involved.

Elimination of Wyoming's feed grounds will not only drastically decrease elk numbers in Northwestern Wyoming but it will also significantly impact mule deer, big horn sheep, and what few moose are left. Elk will out-compete these animals for what limited available forage remains.

If those of you from MM land desire to help, we can use all the help you can muster. This is our one shot to increase public awareness and expose the agenda of those that would seek to end hunting. Anti-hunters didn't go away, they have simply realized the only way to defeat us to restore predators and remove the available surplus populations that have allowed you and I to hunt. Once they have established these predators, they believe most of the non-hunting public will not allow us to kill predators simply to feed our own ego's by killing other big game animals. That is how it will end.

Look at the site; www.elkfeed.com

Take the time out of your busy schedule and stand up for hunting. You might even enjoy spending some time in Jackson just before the big Holiday too. Special pricing is available for those participating in the "Hay Day" event.

Look forward to seeing truck loads of certified weed free hay headed to Wyoming......
 
i wish people would stop blaming the wolves....

the elk that presently winter on the elk refuge in jackson historically used to winter down by what is now farson wyoming. bet none of you guys knew that lol. They can't make it down that far these days. Wonder why.....

they are not starving the elk like everyone believes either. 3 percent of the elk died on the refuge last year and of those 3 percent only 1/3 died from starvation.

BUT HEY, lets blame the wolves....
 
And I wish people would stop dismissing the impact the wolves have had on game populations. The feds dont seem to give a you know what about anything other than catering to a bunch of out of state tree huggers that like taking pictures of carnivores. What they don't see is the elk with their guts ripped out by wolves.

And according to their website, the elk refuge was started in 1912 by local citizens in Jackson after a nasty storm threatened the health of the herd. That was long before development to the south altered their migration routes.
 
I cought 'SMOKESTICK' radio interview on KSL radio last saturday morning and was very interested in this whole feed program.

I don't ever apply for the 'Picnic Table Hunt' in the park but I do hunt, DIY in the surrounding units.

Every spring there seems to be yet another million dollar home subdivision going up along the benches of JH valley.

Thanks for all the info.

Robb
 
Every wolf should be killed. Let the left wing tree hugger watch the you tube videos and lets see what they think.
 
Yes, wolves will have an impact on elk numbers, but so do the Tard Poachers who I hear less and less about.. They are here to stay, so I think we should push for management instead of complaining..
The feeding program is interesting. My only concern is the possibility of having a MAJOR loss of elk due to disease, with that many elk congregated in small areas.. That'll have a bigger impact than any wolf or poacher, but not many people seem too concerned with that.. Any thoughts on the subject of disease?
Oh, BTW,, not all people who respect wolves are "outaa state Tree huggers."
Canada and Minnesota have larger populations of wolves, yet have not had their hunting heritage taken away,, not even close. I do agree with Smokestick though,, the most important thing we need is for sportsmen to be aware of what is happening and to become involved, no matter what your opinion on feeding is..
 
Oh,, I watched the youtube and although I'm not Leftwing and I haven't hugged a tree for at least 37 days, I LOVED it..(even though the footage is about 9 or 10 years old) Any animal that gets kicked in the ribs and skull and just comes back for more has my respect.. Much more skilled than me sitting on a ridge 300 yards away sending a projectile 3000 f.p.s. in the direction of an elk.. That being said, I still think we should begin management immediately, just like any other animal.
 
Heres my favorite saying i read on here a lot:

" i hiked way back in the mountains chasing elk but all I saw were wolf tracks everywhere! There wasn't any elk anywhere!"

Geez, those wolves must be pretty stupid then, they are living on a mountain where there are no elk. We better buy some certified elk to feed those starving wolves.

If theres wolf tracks in the area, theres elk there too. Predator isn't going to live where there isn't prey. But i love reading that one all the time.

I like to hunt the wilderness by yellowstone. Everyone tells me theres too many grizzlies and too many wolves. I'm glad, keeps them away from there.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-06 AT 10:41PM (MST)[p]YH,
How often do you take your kids hunting with you?

Wolves are another issue entirely. This is about the intentional starvation of elk. How many people know that the USFWS believes that as long as the elk are at or excedding objective they don't care if the elk happen to starve?

I personally believe that if we are going to feed animals the least we can do is make sure their needs are met. I find it hard how anyone can defend animals staving to death on a feed ground. I know that animals can become sick. They can get gored by other elk or bison. I know that wolves will weaken stressed animals and make them more susceptible to disease. All the nut-cases want to bring up CWD as a potential disease threat. If that were really true, they would also be advocating that elk on the refuge receive adequate rations of supplement when standing forage is available. When no forage is available more feed must be given to the elk.

Another problem on the refuge is that there is at least 1200 head of bison on the refuge when the management plan only calls for 400 head. Those of you that purchased your extra $10.00 stamp to hunt in that area are paying to feed them along with the elk.

If we are going to feed, it should be done right. Animals should never die from starvation on a feed ground.
 
As was stated in an earlier post, the local citizens began feeding elk because of the massive numbers that died in one winter. I believe over 2500 elk died in one year. Does anyone want to see that kind of devastation again.

Also, it should be pointed out that many of the older WY G&F wardens and biologists of that era do not believe that these elk wintered in the fabled "Red Desert". This is supported by the huge number of elk which winter killed in Jackson prior to the presence of any elk feeding. Furthermore, the noble Desert elk is much like the fabled Jack-a-lope. They don't exist either. Course, I guess telling the truth doesn't help raise money for one's agenda or cause now does it.
 
I have have seen the vidio on you tube plus several others I did a study on the wolves when i was in high school and there impact on elk. the thing that affects the elk more than the elk they kill to eat is the elk calfs the get abourted due to the wolves chasing a whole heard of elk to chose a weaker elk in the heard wheather it is hurt old of a younger calf of cow but when i was studying the wolves affect on elk three years ago they where saying that about 1 in 5 calfs where beign abourted during gestation due to the stress placed on cows during this time. and if you look at the reported numbers of elk going to the multiple feed grounds since the introduction of wolves the number in ten years since the introduction has dropped from over 25,000 to around ten thousand. which means that if the elk dont adapet the whole wyoming and teton range will be limeted entey with just a couple of thousand elk left.

MOseley middleton



With the introduction of wolves, the elk numbers and deer nubers will drop top an all time low and when there is no game to hunt, the govt. will say theres no point in you having that firearm with no wildlife to hunt so where confecating it.
 
"I never could figure out why the elk were fed in Jackson anyway. If the land can't sustain the population doesn't that mean that they are over populated"

"How many homes have been built on the refuge?"

I guess I need to point out which one of your questions I was answering. You asked why elk were fed in Jackson, My answer was the development in the area.

I don't think there are any homes built on the refuge. I think you already know that.

Personally I am looking forward to the annual trip to the feedground and taking a sleigh ride through the elk with my wife and kids.
 
They have been feeding those elk for how many yrs? They are accustom to coming there. If we stop now they will just stand the fence and wonder where the pellets are, all the while starving to death. So far I haven't heard of any big outbreak in all the years of feeding. What makes them think its coming now? Here?s the deal. We move in and build some multi million dollar homes right in the middle of one of the most important migration routes for Elk in the west. We take all that country and start feeding them. Not a fair trade but it works. Its to late to stop now.
As for wolves there is no way you can tell me poachers have anywhere near the impact on Elk that the wolves do. Those fresh flesh hungry little b@stard?s are eating the Yellowstone heard 5 elk at a time. For every cow they kill they kill 2 elk not 1. Wolves have done nothing for us. They have created only problems and a few jobs for guys to wander around in the woods looking for bones.
 
This is a perfect example of why you should never start feeding game animals. Once you start, you can NEVER quit. It's too late now. The entire JH elk life cycle and carrying capacity has been altered to a level accomodated by winter feeding. Undoing it now is apparently more distasteful than letting nature take it's course in the beginning.
 
I see it as pretty simple. we're hunters, we want elk , we don't want wolves, if we need to feed the elk we feed them. while that may be a simple view of the situation the end result is what matters. others will push their agenda so we have to push ours by any means possible. I said I wouldn't get involved in another wolf screaming thread but all I can say is anyone who doesn't see the wolves as the biggest threat to hunting we've ever faced in our lifetime is an idiot.
 
That video is perfect!!!That's exactly how it was designed. Anyone who wants to wipe out wolves because they compete with hunters is no hunter in my book. We are here to care for the wildlife that was given to us. Not just the ones we want to take care of they all have a place and it's up to us selfish friggen humans to make sure they are taken care of. If your going to shoot wolves I hope I'm the one who see's you!!!! I'll turn your poaching butt in as fast as I can dial a cell phone.
 
Kingfish - Agreed as long as there is a hunting season on wolves. We are the top of the food chain.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-06 AT 01:59PM (MST)[p]Post #13. Nobody has said shoot all wolves but just wait it's coming. There are a lot of people on this site that would gladly kill every wolf in existance just so they wouldn't have any competition for elk. Wolves should be controlled not destroyed.
 
Shoot every Canadian wolf in the US if you want, I didn't see nothin and I'll give you my shells if they'll fit your gun. I agree there's room for the Grey wolf since they're native, no room for the non native Canadian species. we all know we're stuck with this mess but we don't have to like it.
 
I just thought I would try and take this back to the original post.

I believe that most everyone would agree that we all share a desire to see to the needs of these animals which are entrusted to our care. Morally and ethically, the USFWS is duty bound to provide sufficient feed to see these animals through the winter as they are dependant upon them for survival.

Equally, I believe no one would support or condone starvation of elk on the National Elk Refuge. Without a dount, elk mortality will and can ocurr on any feed ground; however, when an unprecedented number of elk calves die everyone should be outraged. These animals belong to the public in general and are held in trust for us by the States. If the USFWS can not responsibly see to the care of these animals, then perhaps it should be remanded to the state of Wyoming.

I wanted to thank all of you which travelled to Jackson, WY to support our efforts. Wyoming Outfitter & Guides Association donate over $1,000.00, as did Huntn and Fishn Biz. Several SFW chapters donated significant amounts of money, some as much as $1,500.00. I know that not everyone could attend due to conflicts, etc. However, I do appreciate your support and encouragement to carry on with our efforts. This is far from being over. We all (hunters and non-hunters alike) need to be vigilant this winter to ensure that significant numbers of elk calves do not starve again.

Too many people to thank directly, but those in attendance know what transpired and were apart of something huge. Some one compared this to the Boston Tea Party of the West.

Thanks again to all who participated!!
 
Bob,

It should be pointed out that the new Sherriff in town for the USFWS said three important things this past weekend in Jackson

1. The elk refuge was purchased to feed elk and having abundant elk herds in the area - for hunters and hunting was going to be a priority once again.

2. It is time to delist wolves and grizzly bears and return management to the states.

3. the sportsmen's Voice has been heard.

It might be also deduced that clearly the 60 tons of hay and a full days work shows a heck of a lot more commitment to the resource than a few tree huggers sending in a form letter or responding to an email link.

Finally, for those who want a natural system and no feeding, i will agree to that when we are all sitting in our tepees, burning wood and buffalo chips, wearing buffalo robes, and eating game killed with a string bow, sticks and a stone broadhead. Unfortunately, that romantic notion died 100 years ago.

Man is part of the system, from Dams, power plants, cars, everyting in our world today is engineered and optimized. Helping out wildlife with some "native feed" grown and stacked, and spread on top of the 3 feet of snow isn't such a bad thing.

For the sportsmen who feel they can't make a difference in the desired outcome, the Hay day in Jackson proved otherwise, as has been done on many, many other ocasions.

Don
 
Great points Don. Thanks for sharing them.

Many have expressed concerns over statements that are being made by the current manager of the refuge. All I can say is Don nailed it. Barry can say whatever he wants to the media, it's his action he had better watch as I know several are watching him, waiting for an opportunity to drop the hammer.

The quote from President Reagan that Bob Richards used can not be lost or forgotten. It was used by President Reagan when he was dealing with the disarmament of Russia. He stated; "Trust, but verify." Sportsmen, as well as the public in general need to Trust that significant numbers of elk will not starve again this winter no matter how harsh the winter conditions get.
 

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