Feeding wintering deer?

OnTarget · Dec 30, 2003

With almost 3 feet of snow, tons of elk on the deer winter range & it's only the end of December I am toying with the idea of starting a supplemental deer feeding program in a few areas where I have some control with the wintering wildlife. I know one ranch that has been doing this for years now with great success!

Just wondering what you guys thought

2_Point · Dec 30, 2003

We have tried to feed deer before on our ranch, but the problem is the deer can't come off the winter feed and start onto the Spring forage. The deer, it seems, has microorganisms in their digestive tract which aid in breaking down forage. It is believed that the deer, once fed on Alfalfa or other high protien feeds used for livestock, can not make the transition to natural spring feeds. For example, in 1983 the deer were fed and many appeared to have survived the winter. Then in May the DWR found 1,000s of dead deer that had died since the spring grasses came. The deer starved to death after the winter, because they couldn't digest the natural Spring forage.

If a feed program is started early enough (when??) it is believed that the deer survive at a higher rate once spring comes.

I wish we could find some kind of way to help the animals by supplementing their food sources. USU has tried for years and MDF is trying to find a winter supplement that will not cause the aformentioned problem.

Best of Luck

browtine · Dec 30, 2003

I dont have any knowledge in this area however, I am guessing that elk and deer are in different catigories when it comes to feeding them on winter ranges. Elk appear to do just fine when it comes to jackson hole and the hardware ranch. I am curious if this is why the DWR is so hessitant to feed wintering animals. I have heard several different theories as to why they wont. I have heard the "dependancy" theory the most. This is an interesting topic. I have searched (briefly) the utah laws regarding feeding wintering animals. I would be surprised if nothing has been writtin about this.

stickflipper · Dec 30, 2003

I dont understand how the dwr says the animals dont transition back to spring feed. The animals are eating in all the alfalfa fields down in southern utah county. I think it a dependency issue as well.

Hornseeker · Dec 30, 2003

Man, I hope this winter doens't keep up like this. The deer in Eastern MT were just getting back to a respectable populationa and age structure! And I was just getting pumped for next season! Aargh.

I too have heard from very reliable sources that mulies in general do not respond well to feeding. I think the deer mentioned above in Utah are ok cause thats what they are eating all the time. You take a herd that is only eating sage and bunch grass, then feed them hay all winter, then they get screwed up in the spring?

Sure hope something good happens for them though.

ICMDEER · Dec 31, 2003

This is an old and controversial question. It is also one of my pet peeves. When I wa in college back in the 70's, we learned that feeding deer would kill them. We learned that deer can not eat alfalfa or supplements because the microorganisms in their rumens can not adapt from the native dietto the new feeds. Don't believe it!! The deer here at my house, and I just looked at about 60-70 this morning, eat primarily alfalfa and corn for months in the winter. They literally stand on corn piles and eat hay stacks to the ground. And they look darned good. Fat and sassy.

Another concern in this area is CWD, since congregating the wildlife tends, at least in theory, to advance the spread of CWD.
I'm not sure how to answer your question other than to say, don't belive what you hear. Come to eastern Wyoming and eastern Colorado and I'll show you all kinds of big, healthy deer feeding in corn and hay stacks. It is tough to quickly transition from brush to these high quality diets, but those feeds work well here.

DougW · Dec 31, 2003

ICMDEER-

But what are those animals eating during the summer and fall? Probably alfalfa, hay and corn. The problem might arise when migratory deer (coming down in the winter from high elevations, above all of the agriculture) get fed. They are accustomed to the sage, bitterbrush, mt. mahogany etc. up high, and have problems with a sudden adjustment come wintertime. Just a thought.

You're right on with the CWD (and other diseases) problems with congregation.

DougW

OnTarget · Dec 31, 2003

One of the neighboring ranches that has a limited winter range has been feeding the deer for 6yrs with great success that's why I'm considering on giving it a try

RuttCrazed · Dec 31, 2003

OK, I'm not a biologist, but if the transition of diet is the only thing stopping the F&G from feeding deer, why couldn't they just mix the feed with some type of natural feed and the other half a high protien food like alfalfa? Make some pellets during the summer and seal them up incase you need them in the winter. Would this work or is it just to logical for the F&G to consider?

Rut

cohntr6 · Dec 31, 2003

I wouldnt feed. What about next year and the year after that? Un-natural herding of deer/elk is bad news. Yes CWD is spread by saliva and big fat healthy deer can be cwd positive. It is only in the late stages of the disease that you can see clinical signs.
You also need to see what your local regs are on the issue of feeding too.
The deer will make it through the winter fine.
Jeff

2_Point · Dec 31, 2003

I believe that the deer can eat in hay fields and have no ill effect during both summer and winter. Alfalfa still in the field during the winter is digestable because the plant has frozen and the cells have burst. This is known as "Turning to Silage".

Alafalfa hay has not been broken down by any freezing activity. Many times if deer are feeding on Alfalfa hay stacks before the winter starts they seem to be ok. BUT if the deer are fed hay at once during the winter, chances are they will survive the winter only to die once spring grasses come and the hay os stopped. We have had many deer survive the winter in our stacks, only to die once spring shoots appear. Grass hay, it seems, does not have the same effect on deer, but the grass hay holds little nutritional value for the deer.

OnTarget, find out what that ranch is using and let us know. I see no problem in feeding a deer herd that has had its winter range wiped out by human encroachment IF the feed does no harm to the animals.

Best Of Luck

ClearCreek · Dec 31, 2003

2_point:
Not sure where you learned to make silage, but as a kid I hauled and packed a lot of it and that was all done prior to frost or freezing. Silage is made when chopped grain stocks or hay undergoes a chemical change via an anerobic process. That's why it's placed in a silo, covered with a plastic tarp or packed so a crust forms.

ClearCreek

Hawkk33 · Dec 31, 2003

I have some info about winter feed for mule deer at my office I will post that info tomorrow.

2_Point · Jan 1, 2004

CC- I know how farmers make silage. I don't know how many tons of it I have fed in my life. When you are referring to the "Natural" process of decomposing plant material it is how I stated. I guess I should have used the word "Ensilage", but it is the same. Plant's cells freeze and burst causing a breakdown in the plant material, thus making it easier for the animal to digest.

polarbear · Jan 1, 2004

My #1 huning buddy feeds alfalfa all winter long to the deer around his and his girlfriends ranches. They are butted up to wintering grounds and the deer seem to migrate down to their ranches when the snow gets deep. He feeds to draw them away from the roads so that they dont get poached during the winter. The roads are closed to all rigs except snowmobiles. There use to be a lot of critters poached on that winter range by snowmobilers. Now they are drawn deeper into their ranches and safe from poachers. It seems to have really helped the deer population around the area.
Eric

Life long "vagitarian"

Hawkk33 · Jan 1, 2004

ok the stuff is called Mix30 and its sold by a company called Agridyne phone # is 800-575-7585 contact name Rod Hartzold. It is fed to deer and elk at a game ranch in NM. PM me if you want the # for the ranch to see how they are doing with it

BeanMan · Jan 1, 2004

Ruttcrazed,

There are a couple of problems, from an agronomic point of view with adding native material to alfalfa. Most of the native plant material is somewhat woody like winterfat, bitterbrush, sages, etc. Bushy wood like material is very hard on the swather to cut it and even harder on the baler to bale it. Lots of broken equipment. The second problem is bigger. Most of the native plant complex grows real slow. If you planted some as a crop it would take years to reach a large enough amount to harvest. I'm not saying it couldn't be done it is just harder to do than agronomic forages like alfalfa.

Here's a question of my own. Why wouldn't grass hay work? I know it doesn't have the protein level of alfalfa but that might solve some of the digestibility issues. Gotta be some reason they don't use it (takes more volume?).

Two point,

Ensilage and silage are synonyms. It's a process of anaerobic and microbial breakdown of the plant material. Freezing breaking down plant cells? Alfalfa lives through the winter. I think you got a hold of a wives tale.

BeanMan

2_Point · Jan 1, 2004

BeanMan, Good post.

Not to nick-pick this thing to death, but I did say "I guess I should have used the word "Ensilage", but it is the same."

For a good reference on the "Ensilage" of Natural plants look in Dr Valerius Geist's book 'Mule Deer Country'. Some clips from the Food & Feeding chapter read "on frost killed and cured, or "ensilaged," vegitation." And "Its all due to the natural "silage" that begins to form soon after the first heavy frosts..... The process of natural ensilage formation begins when frost killed herbs have dried out. The frost breaks open the living cells...." Geist has put together a great book and it makes for an interesting read.

I am no Mule Deer scholar for sure, but I have been involved with ranching my whole life. Many seminars and a few wives tales from the old timers seem to always run amuck in my mind. Also Alfalfa hay that is standing is not alive during the harsh winter here in Utah. Our fields usually harvest 4 crops and the fifth grow 6-12", but once the frost hits heavily the alfalfa turns brown and falls over, but green at the base.

We have an orchard the deer use in winter, eating apples. Apples would work well as a supplemental feed, maybe the mash after the juicing process. I have often wondered how peanut hay would work. It is fed quet a bit in the Midwest after it is shipped in by train. Definately high protien.

Best of Luck to All

muleymaster · Jan 5, 2004

Try corn

WAmuleyHunter · Jan 6, 2004

Here in washington after the bad fires we had the big bad winter like 96-97 the game department was feeding deer every where and its the only thing that saved what deer where left. we had some feeders next to a few of our orchards and the feed was in pellets. not to sure what exactly what it was but i am sure i could call the game department and find out for you guys.

Garrett

polarbear- i like what you are doing. keep it up, just looked at a couple of your whitetail pics, those are whiteys that are in my dreams.