Coyotes & Mtn. Lions

songdog · Feb 26, 2004

I've been watching/reading the Monster Muley website for several years now and I keep reading all of the belly-aching and complaining about coyotes and mountain lions playing hell on the deer and antelope populations. Most of the negative comments seem to be directed at the State Game & Fish Departments for their lack of predator control. Here in Texas there is a year-round season on coyotes and lions with no limits. Yet, Texas has high deer populations in most areas with a lot of coyotes. There is talk in Texas of classifying the mtn. lions as a game animal requiring a permit/license/tag. But, they are still considered a varmint here and can be hunted 24/7/365. Yet, their numbers are increasing and their range is spreading all across the State.

As for coyotes, you very seldom ever see any coyotes during the daytime hours around here in Texas. They are primarily nocturnal and can be hunted fairly easy with game callers. During the Texas deer season you hardly ever see a coyote while hunting during the day but once the sun goes down you can always hear several packs howling so we know they are there! I've hunted deer & antelope in Colorado and New Mexico over the past 20 years and have seen enough coyotes during the daylight hunting hours to fill the back of a semi-truck trailer! Therefore, you must have a lot of dang coyotes out west if they are that visible in the middle of the day!!!

My question is, If coyotes are such are problem, why are most deer/elk/antelope hunters not die-hard varmint hunters? If I can see over a dozen coyotes while out antelope/deer hunting in the middle of the day in Colorado & New Mexico, then surely I would be able to find a dozen coyotes while varmint hunting during the off season months (Feb, March, Apr., May, June, etc.) out West. I understand that the western states have different rules and regs regarding varmints (coyotes, lions, bobcats) and varmint hunting. But, being out in the wilds and learing my favorite deer/elk/antelope hunting area while getting the chance to hunt coyotes seems like a win-win situation. You are able to help with predator control while enjoying the great outdoors.

So, when do we go varmint huntin'?

Sorry for the long winded post but I just wanted hear some other thoughts on this matter from my fellow MM comrades.

Watch your top knot!

Songdog

RLH · Feb 26, 2004

for whatever reason, in Az., predator control is a bad word with game wardens. read my rant on the "worst managed state" thread. Az. outlawed trapping, with the blessing and campaigning of the game and fish leading the charge. they've enacted restrictive rules about having any kind of a "contest". and anytime there is a problem bad enough that they will recognize it, they listen to anti's more than they will hunters and even their own bioligists. i agree with ya, hunt them varmints. start today. buy a lion tag and try hard to get one. shoot every coyote you see. buy a call and go have some fun. you get to be a better shot, pay more attention to the wind, get outta the house when there are no seasons (like now). varmint callin' is a blast and does everyone and everything good.

Bunky · Feb 26, 2004

I have been hunting dogs since I was a wee little lad. I got my first one when I was 12, and called in my first one soon after that. All the while I was growing up, my dad hunted dogs as a part time job, they would sell hundreds each year. He was known as one of the best callers in the world and we beat (in the old days) all the current world contest callers in our area for about 7 years. I have killed plenty of dogs in my day, but now to the problem. Dogs especially are very smart. They learn from our mistakes. Every dog that is called in, spooked, missed, never seen, learns from these incidences and it is very hard to overcome that learning experience. I live in a new area, and with as many as I have called in over the years, it is almost impossible to call one in around here. They have been educated to no end. You do more damage by going out and messing around when you have no idea what you are doing. There is no worse feeling in the world than to be in a prime calling location and then have the dang things sit out about 600 yds. and howl their warining howl. Yes it is a ball, and everyone should kill every one they see. But if you don't know what you are doing, drive around until you see one and we will all be better off.

NVMDF · Feb 26, 2004

I second what bunkey said, if you don't know, don't go.
another thing, coyotes are prolific breeders, if you kill
one out of an area, it will be replaced by two. you can
kill every one you see, but for the ones you kill there
are 5 you don't. In Nevada there is a $3.00 preditor
management fee, now, when NDOW says "preditor", you think
coyote, bob cat, Lion. but if you look at the NDOW web site
they spend all that money on killing crows because they
are eating the sage hen eggs, I'm not saying one needs
to be killed more than the other, I think sportsman need help
from the the state if the dog population is to be controled.
Nor am I saying that coyotes are the reason for our declining deer population, but they sure make it hard for them to come
back.

NVMDF