Do you want wolf management???

M

misner5

Guest
I'm piggy backing off another post to get this info out. I did a search on the subject and you wouldn't believe how the anti's are stirred up about this. We need to fight for management and fight hard!! e-mail and write letters, tell others about this. We only have 60 days.

Send them by mail to:

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Western Gray Wolf Recovery Coordinator 100 N. Park, #320 Helena, MT 59601

Send e-mail to: [email protected]


US Secretary of Interior, Gale Norton, announced today a proposal to give Idaho and Montana more authority to manage wolves. I just read it, and in summary it says that because Idaho and Montana have submitted acceptable plans for management, they will get considerable control in handling problem wolves, including ones that are causing game depradation. Also, wolves killing domestic livestock on private land could be removed without a permit. There will be a 60 day comment period before taking affect, and the proposal will be in the Federal Register soon.

Something is better that nothing at this point.
 
misner5

I ALREADY HAVE SEVERAL CALIBERS OF WOLF PROTECTION!!!

ANYBODY CARE WHAT CALIBER I USE???

MY 600 GRAIN SLUGS WILL HAVE TO DO TILL I FIND SOMETHING BIGGER!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT HAS NEVER SEEN A "LIVE" WOLF IN UTAH!!!
 
We manage our wolves by sending them down your way. LOL! Actually in all seriousness, I read in the local paper last week that to help our local mountain caribou populations out they are talking about capturing some of our local wolves and sending them to whoever wants them in the States. Kind of ironic that the area that they are talking about doing this in is one of the only areas that we can't hunt them.
 
I dont care where they send them just get them out of Utah ...Weve work so hard to get the elk herd healthy and now wolves??? Wolves will ruin all the hard work in just a matter of a fews years .. I understand the wolves in Yellowstone have changed the elk herd form 20,000 to 7,000 ... anybody else herd of that?
 
Having historically high elk, deer and moose populations in this province and having very high wolf numbers, very high cougar numbers and very high grizzly numbers, I wonder if the fear that you guys are facing is actually founded in truth. We've been living with serious predators for a very long time and it doesn't seem to have hurt us. Of course, we do manage our predators and allow hunting. But, that is what you should be fighting for. Not against the reintroduction but fight so that they can be managed like any other big game species and allow tags to be released so that you can keep their numbers in check.
 
I agree with you BCBOY..

I'm studying Wildlife Biology in Northwest Wyoming, and I can tell you that the Yellowstone elk herd is not decimated. There are many rumors about the wolves killing off all deer,elk,moose, and everything else that moves; that's just not true. When looking at numbers, you have to take into consideration Grizzlies,cougars,coyotes,blackbear,roadkill,poaching,drought,winter,disease,fires, ect.....
A bunch of my buddies harvested great bulls and bucks last year. I think some people get the idea that all the elk are gone, because they have changed behavior, spending more time in the timber. Winter counts this year show a slight decline, but nothing dramatic.
I encourage everyone to go to the wolf meetings, but bring your ideas, not your biased opinions. Wolves have already dispersed this year and I'll bet the ranch they are in Utah. In Wyoming, everyone wants to shoot a wolf the second they see one. The only thing this will accomplish is getting them back on the Endangered List.
Instead, we should do as BCBOY said, MANAGEMENT. Not only does it keep numbers in check, but it could be a source of revenue for the Game and fish. Everyone knows that there are plenty of people willing to fork out the dough to take a wolf.

Now, before every hunter on the site jumps me for my pro-wolf stance, I'd like to say that I think it was a terrible idea to reintroduce the wolves. If people would have been patient, wolves would have moved through natural corridors down through Montana. Although, if you ask my opinion, there were already wolves in Wyoming. Instead, many individuals wanted to complete their "zoo" that we call Yellowstone. They don't like to see what's happening to wolves outside the park, because that blood is on their hands.
I feel that the Rancher is getting the brunt of it all..
 
Opinion from Utah hunter,
I wouldn't mind seeing wolves in Utah, they are part of wildlife. I agree on management,if they become a problem.
On the news a couple of days ago ther were some ranchers from Heber on their, showing the news what the elk have done to their ranches, I couldn't believe what the deer and elk, had done to three good size ranches, those ranchers didn't even have one plant on their property, that wasn't destroyed.
The ranchers blamed the problem on CWMU and private land owners, were there are not enough tags given out because of the money it costs to hunt those area's.

Now, I dont give a Sh!t about the ranchers,on natural winter ranges, but these guys were in town.

I guess what I'm saying is land owners and ranchers are never going to be happy. And there a big part in, not wanting wolves in Utah. To me it sounds like there only worried about their investment. So bring on the wolves
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-04 AT 01:55PM (MST)[p]Yeh, bring on the wolves! And I will shoot every one of those bastards that I see! The same goes for coyotes and cougars! We have already had 4 calves killed this year by coyotes. This winter I shot 8 coyotes off of my property that were after livestock. If you are so concerned about wolves being a "natural" part of the ecosystem, then let them come back on their own, do not transplant them! After all, that is the "natural" thing to do, right. I will be happy to feed them some minerals via my 250 Savage!

075456.jpg


Eric
 
This is a very complicated issue. Wyoming got screwed big time by the feds. We had what they termed an "acceptable plan" but the feds rejected it at the last possible time. I'd like to see more emphasis on states rights and less dictation by the federal government. Wyoming sportmen pay the majority of the costs associated with the wolves, but we have little say-so in what actually happens. Now we will end up in court to try to have state managemtn of the wolves.

And I don't know what facts you are working from up in Powell, but the statistics we are getting in the rest of the state indicate that the elk population east of Jellystone is about half what it was in 1995. And the moose population is way down as well. We have not had serious winters and the habitat has not changed that much, and there has not been an over harvest - so go figure.

I work for the University of Wyoming and one of my degrees is in wildlife management. Don't believe everything your professors tell you, cause is just is not so.

And one other final comment. Ranchers and landowners are often happy and satisfied. I own land and cattle and think life is pretty good. It does not pay to make broad based statements about all ranchers.

Good luck to you all, but I can tell you that wolves will not fare well in southeast Wyoming. And Steve, maybe we just don't have the rough habitat or something to slow them down like you do in B.C. That one I can't answer.

Anyhow, this is a big and complex issue. States rights. We're supposed to have them.
 
I have a aplication for wildlife services that i'm going to turn in when i finish these jobs with energy electric so i can help manage them and maybe help get wyomings plans approved
we dont wont them on private or state land and it will take work from the inside the government to get that adopted i'm with wyoming on wolf management and dont think the cost of managing something we didn't wont in the first place should be left to the game and fish feds wont them the feds should support them.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-04 AT 07:16PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-04 AT 07:14?PM (MST)

ICM,
I do know that wolves unmanaged can really run amuck. There has to be a hunting season on them or else they eat themselves out of house and home. I think that is where the powers that be screwed up in the whole Yellystone relocation. You can't have big predators thrown into a smorgasboard of elk and think they will stop eating when their stomachs are full. Wolves are killing machines and they do enjoy fresh meat.
In some portions of BC we are now moving to an 8 wolf a year harvest limit with General Seasons because ungulate populations (such as Stone Sheep) can really drop when the wolf population gets really high. We used to have Government run Wolf Kills (arial shooting) but due to the public opinion on that we now have to encourage our hunters in some areas to shoot as many as they can. It is a very delicate ballance to maintain healthy populations and keep the general public happy too.
The antiwolf setiment of "kill them all" that I have heard a lot on this site just puts fuel on the fire for the anti-hunting/prowolf lobbiests and can make things a lot worse. When it comes to talks and meetings on this issue I think cool heads with sound rationale is the way to go.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-04 AT 07:39PM (MST)[p]Polarbear
Learn how to read!! I'm not a fed or the state.
I never said anything about transporting wolves and neither did anyone else. all i meant was it wouldn't hurt to have some in the high country.
Wolves have allready made it here on their own, but ranchers and landowners have through such a fit, their gone.

And hey, if they make it to your property, shoot em with that worthless 250 Savage, I dont care.

If wolves get out of control,thats one more hunt for us.
 
You guys can keep those big Ol'Canadian Grey wolves up there in Canada.
They never should have been introduced here and don't belong here. They are 1/3 bigger than the wolves we had here before.
They just glide over the deep snow and the Elk and Moose are no match for them.

In some states with our already heavy hunting pressure and declining Elk #'s we do not need these Wolves eating our Elk herds until they are on the endangered list themselves. It's just what the Anti's want, with very few Elk or Moose or Deer no reason for hunting.

I too will deal with every Wolf I am lucky enough to see in the woods.
 
Duvy
I can read very well. What makes you think that I was responding to what you had said, other than "bring them on"? I was stating an opinion on the subject, and yes, I am entitled to it! By the way, us "ranchers" don't give a sh!t about your opinion of us. As far as the 250 being worthless, have you ever owned one? If you had, you would know that they are not "worhless". But you too are entitled to your opinion, however retarded it may be.
Eric
 
polarbear
I thought you were hammering me, when you used my quote.
The guy pissing and such. whatever

I didn't want it to say bring on the wolves, after reading it.
I meant, if they migrate into utah I wouldn't mind hearing/seeing in the high country.
 
Hot off the press (Bozeman Daily Chronicle)

Migrating wolves complicate wildlife management
By SCOTT McMILLION Chronicle Staff Writer

Most of the state's elk herds are stable or growing, though they are shrinking in some areas with lots of wolves and grizzly bears, officials of the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks said Saturday.

However, wolves are going to spread to new areas, and that will make wildlife management more complicated, FWP Chief of Staff Chris Smith told the annual meeting of the Montana Outfitters and Guides Association.
Bringing a large predator into a system "makes things much less predictable and much harder to deal with," Smith told about 80 people gathered at the GranTree Inn in Bozeman.

Smith worked with wolves in Alaska for 20 years before he came to Montana a few years ago.

The greater Yellowstone National Park area probably hosts as many wolves as it can take right now, Smith said, and as prey numbers there decline, wolf numbers will decline.

"That country's not going to support that number of wolves as the prey population declines, he said.


The northern Yellowstone elk herd is now at its lowest point in more than 30 years and has declined steadily since wolves were reintroduced in the park in 1995 and 1996.

That herd "is going to be problematic for a long, long time," Smith said.

While wolves will spread out to new areas, the growth of the wolf population will lessen, he predicted. That's because dispersing wolves "are going to get in trouble and more are going to get taken out."

A formal move toward removing wolves from the protections of the federal Endangered Species Act could come at the end of this year, he said, but is almost surely to be tied up in court.

FWP wants to manage wolves like it does bears and mountain lions, with regulated trapping and hunting seasons.

Smith said wolves probably will stick to mountain country.

"I don't think we'll ever have any significant wolf populations east of the (Rocky Mountain) foothills," he said.

He also predicted that wolf impacts will spread beyond elk.

"They're going to be affecting sheep populations," he said. "They're going to be affecting deer populations."

Ken Hamlin, an FWP scientist who has studied deer and elk for 30 years, outlined the early results of wolf/elk studies in Yellowstone, the upper Gallatin and the Madison River drainages.

The number of calves that survive their first year dropped in 2001 and 2002 all over the state, but fell more sharply in all three study areas adjacent to the park's north boundary, Hamlin said.

The overall size of the Madison herd remains stable, but the Gallatin and northern Yellowstone herds have fallen, Hamlin said.

"We're losing a bunch of animals before we even get to the winter predation period," he said.

Wolves are taking elk, but so are grizzly bears, he said, but there isn't enough data outside the park to say which species is killing how many calves. Drought could also be a compounding factor.

The studies also show that wolves are affecting elk behavior, and that affects how outfitters run their business, he said.

MOGA president Lee Hart said that after three decades of outfitting in the Porcupine/Buffalo Horn area north of Yellowstone, he hasn't bothered setting up an elk camp the last two years, though he continues his summer business.

"It's basically put me out of (the hunting) business," he said. "I'm the affected person, dead center where the infection is."

Wolves aren't going away, he said, and they aren't likely ever to be controlled inside the park, which is the source of many of the elk he hunts.
 
Wouldn't hurt to have a few in the high country???What a joke!!!Wolves go where they damn well please,and kill whatever is handy,including your DOG if they can get him!!!The feds are after a pack in Idaho that has been terrorizing a group of ranchers for months.They are going to kill the entire pack,because they finally killed one of the pet dogs,which happened to belong to the kids.The wolves tore him to pieces within view of the kids.You pro-wolf guys want to see that happen to your kids?BCBOY,Canada does not fall under the endangered species act,so you guys have the right idea about controlling these voracious predators.The ESA is the whole problem down here.Wyoming has the right idea,and we are fighting tooth and nail against the feds.Wolves in Wyoming have actually entered the entryway of a ranchers house in the Dunoir valley to attack his dog-IN THE HOUSE!These wolves terrorized these people for months,killing more than one of their pets,in the yard,and in the house.You guys in Utah better fight this hard(even though the decision has already been made-you are getting wolves whether you want them or not!).Later,N.T.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-04 AT 00:26AM (MST)[p]To all of you that say a couple wouldn't hurt you need to go to www.naturewolves.com, and www.mtmultipleuse.org, and see what a few can do. You in Utah need to attend the meetings and fight with every last drop of energy you have to keep them from destroying your wildlife herds. Its started in Wyoming, and we'll be lucky to ever reverse the trend.
Pray for Mange
Eric,
 
i didn't ever like the putting wolves back into the wild. It's hard on ranchers like me. If those wolves ever move out of the mountains and out on the plains they will suddenly disappear beacause of my 25-06
 
nontypical,
ya what a joke!!!
You are not hearing to well, MANAGEMENT.
I said it before I dont think they should transport wolves into utah. If they migrate here so be it. The reason wolves go were the damn well please and kill, is theres laws against killing them in other states.
We do need to make sure if they come to Utah, than their is a management policy. I will fight against having them protected by federal law.If it comes down to it, were we are under the same restrictions as surrounding states. Then i will be against the whole damn thing.
 
Wow. HOT topic! This isn't 1800 and habitat for all wildlife has a completely different look from that era. We have no choice but to manage all wildlife, including the wolf. The wolf itself is not to blame for its nature, but we are for the way we have handled reintroduction. If wolves are going to be part of our ecosystem, they need to be mangaged (as well as we ever manage anything in nature). Wolves have been introduced in New Mexico,too. The ranchers are not happy. Would I personally hunt a wolf? Probably not. But I do think hunts for them are/will be necessary. I have seen what mountain lions in my state can do to both wildlife and domestic stock; we hunt them, so why not manage wolves in the same manner? I think predators are necessary to maintain the balance of carrying capacity for any ecosystem, but who manages the predators? Well, it's obvious that there are two extremes: kill them all or don't kill any of them. Good grief. The sensible thing to do is manage them with hunts and kill nuisance wolves that attack stock/people/dogs. I think the antis and the hunters need to reach a common sense medium and put this issue to rest. LMH
 
Ahh...thats the rub. The Enviro preservationists idea of management is just to let nature take its course, their whole management direction is NO hunting.

from the "Heatland of Wyoming"
 
Wolf managment???? yes! kill them all! Have you herd what the wolves have done to the Yellowstone Elk hurd??? in 1994 The Yellowstone hurd was almost at 20,000 strong... Now after wolves have been introduced ... the Yellowstone hurd is about 8,000 ....oh yes let nature take care of itself????? If this continues we wont have any Elk hunting left.... because there wont be any Elk.
 
Funny, I have heard how everyone on this site is always bitchin' and moaning about how the elk are taking over the West. Elk population numbers are at all-time highs in most states according to the masses of MM thus are one of the reasons for the decline of the mule deer. Now I'm hearing there are no elk left cause the wolves have eaten them all. LOL! When it comes to getting the muley populations up and the elk populations down, maybe wolves could be the anwser. In an wolf's mind elk are always better tasting than a stinky ol' muley anyday. LMAO!!!
 
Utah has no intentions of transplanting wolfs into the state, that according to Craig McLaughlin, Mammals Program Coordinator for the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources.
The fact is wolfs are here and will continue to filter into the state.
If it were up to me, I'd say treat them as we treat coyotes, with no federal or state protection? Shoot on site!! But I realize it's not up to me, so there does need to be management plan in place. The other problem is if the wolf population were to decline due to hunting, the feds would once again place the wolf on the endangered species list thus taking management out of the states hands, assuming of course they are delisted.

Managing the wolfs is the only choice that makes sense. The questions would then be, Where and how many are wolfs allowed to reside in the state?

I do find it interesting that from what I've been reading about the topic, many people will shoot a wolf on site, whether there is a management plan or not. Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up!
 

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