Living on Winter Range!

[TFinalshot]

What do you guys think of all the new homes being built on mule deer winter range? I was just looking at some of those shots on the MM photo post and I saw a picture of a new house and a bunch of deer on winter range. With the decline of mule deer numbers accross the west (some areas are over populated from one year to the next for various reasons, but these areas usually do not have migratory heards) is it logical for mule deer hunters to build their homes on winter range? I know everyone has their rights, but lets be part of the solultion not the problem. Especially if you give any $ to mule deer conservation or care deeply about the future of mature mule deer.

Finalshot

 

[BUCKSPY]

Homes built on winter range don't have that much of an impact so much as domestic dogs do. Deer will come and feed right around the houses in the winter and seem to get used to a few houses here and there. But throw in a dog that runs loose and chases deer and you have effectively eliminated alot of habitat by the impact of the dog or dogs.

Coal bed methane and natural gas drilling is having a huge impact on mule deer habitat across the West right now. Probably a much more insidious threat than winter range housing development.

 

[kilbuc]

Buckspy...no offense, but the house/buildings/roads footprint directly removes deer habitat. But you are right about dogs.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"

 

[BCBOY]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-04 AT 05:10PM (MST)[p]I once lived in a heritage home on the edge of the largest winter range in the province. There were several new housing developements going on in the area at the time. The mule deer actaully didn't mind too bad. They could be seen roaming subdivisions eating on lawns and the such. I'm sure that it had some impact on the overall herd but I'm also sure that the green lawns and shrubs were probably more healthy for them to eat than their classic winter range food. I think the biggest killer when it comes to winter range development is actually the roads and highways that are built to service the new population of people. Lots of road kill has a big impact on deer numbers. Deer fences aren't always the answer either. While I lived in that area, the Government built a huge new highway that split the summer range from the winter range. They put up big deer fences and had a few underpasses and a few over passes. They erected the fence in the summer and when the deer started to migrate that year they hit the fence and turned around and wintered on the other side of the mountain range. That really threw a kink into things for that herd.

 

[elk_horn]

Its not just the houses its also the the stress of being around humans!

 

[AZbowhntr]

To me it seems like there are more anti-hunters and environmentalists that build on the winter range than hunters. I have had a couple small run-ins with them while out hunting. They don't even have a clue that they are doing any harm at all. They are too busy worrying about us being there.

 

[kidneystone]

Of course, homes that require ripping out winter browse and cover will reduce winter range quality. But keep in mind that it's just not the new homes. Homes built fifty years ago ruined winter range 50 years ago. It was just further down the valley. The old buildings in downtown SLC ruined winter range 150 years ago. All major interstates bisect winter travel corridors. If you choose to partake in modern society with house and cars and roads and vacations then you're part of the problem. I'm part of the problem.

 

[marksmen]

Buckspy quit using the gas and it won't affect winter deer ranges any more, it's your fault, unless, your ride a horse to work.

 

[BUCKSPY]

No "marksmen" you big kidder. I don't ride my horse to work. He is to damn slow and its too damn cold to ride a bike. I leave my gas guzzleing pickup at home and drive a 94 Geo Prizm that gets about 36 miles a gallon. It may not sound like much until you see me shoehorning my 6'7"ass in and out of it and driving with my knees under my chin. Trust me when I say its something of a sacrifice.

Also, my truck and car don't run on natural gas. They thrive on imported middle eastern crude. But my home does run on natural gas. So in an effort to try to conserve some I also built a house with a passive solar design that utilizes alot of the sun's energy to help heat my home in the winter. I have an EPA approved clean wood burning stove to help with heating also. Plus, I recycle everything possible including the pizza box. Damn near a greenie except I kill big bucks and love it.

Your right though. Its my fault.

By the way. Did you choose "marksmen" because there are more than one of you or was "marksman" taken?

 

[marksmen]

well said buckspy that was my bad lol i will take the blame as well i took marksmen because i typed the wrong letter and didn't realize it until i had everything all said and done. Good job in taking care of the enviromnent for futher generations to come.

 

[shotgunjim]

Everyone who lives in the Western U.S. and lives in a valley is living on winter range, new homes or 50 year old homes its all been winter range at one time. All deer herds that migrate from the Mts. to the valleys are migratory herds. You can consider about 99% of all mule deer to be migratory. Migratory or not people are going to build on Big game winter range, espessally if someones going to make money by doing so.

 

[B_F_E]

Good point Jim.

 

[Cowkiller]

Just because my 70 year old house in the middle of town was built on winter range doesn't mean I should condone endless building on winter range. I get really tired of the "oh well it's inevitable attitude". In my area there are small patches of winter range that support all the thousands of deer from huge areas of summer range. I'd guess some of these areas are the sole winter support for as many as 20 deer per acre. Any house or road built on these areas has a definite impact on the carrying capacity for deer and it's permanent. I am guilt free because the people who built and lived in my house have all died or left the western U.S. and I am only having two children.

Don't be fooled because you see deer in developed areas. Studies have shown that deer in developed areas are greatly reduced in numbers and productivity compared to herds on good natural range.

 

[Morty_Pass]

I have to agree with buckspy. I have seen how methane gas wells have ripped up the winter ranges . Most of the roads to these gas wells are right up through the bottoms where the sage brush is the best. Now some of the best foraige areas are turned into gravel roads. Dogs are pretty bad also. It funny dogs seem to run off most wildlife. Turkeys are another animal that hates dogs with a passion, they will really put some distance b/w areas used by local dogs.

House arent really that big of deal, deer will just migrate around them or eat your shrubs. I have to agree with BCBOY about most of the foriage in a town is a heck of a lot better for them. Heck they never go through a drought. I also have to say road kill can take out several animals..

BUT the sad thing is its only going to get worse.

later, MP

 

[Outdoordan]

I live in the Wood River Valley in Idaho (near Sun Valley). It is unfortunate to see the growth, but at the same time, most of the people like it. It creates jobs, more people move in for the jobs, build new houses, buy new houses.... I went to school here, moved away, then came back. The difference between then and now is unbelievable. It has basically tripled in population in 15 years. It is definately having an effect on the wildlife. Dead deer and elk on the sides of the highway is a common occurence.
On the front page of last weeks "Idaho Mtn. Express" is an article about domestic dogs attacking, killing, and partially eating numerous elk. The article states that the fish and game actually witnessed the attack on one elk, barely saving it, but have found 5 carcasses attributed to the dogs. Several people have witnessed the dogs chasing the elk down the barren hillsides (we are losing snow due to warm weather), and into the deep snow. The elk get bogged down, and killed viciously. It describes dogs jumping on the backs of elk, etc. This s**t totally pisses me off. I can not believe the attitude of people up here. They just let there dogs roam anywhere. It makes a guy contemplate shooting the damn things. The valley has turned into a liberal haven. Nobody will say anything about it, and the fish and game just have to deal. Furthermore, the anti-hunting faction has moved in, and you know their take on it will be to stop humans hunting, not the dogs. I don't know it just makes me sick.
-Dan

 

[YollaBolly]

Dan, These idiots you are talking about are friggin hypocrytes. They want it both ways. Kill the fetus but save the animal! Except ofcourse when it comes to "Lassie". They treat their pets better than their own family members. I've got a sister in law that treats her two dogs better than her two step children. Pizzes me off.

 

[BeanMan]

RE: Do something smart!

Get with the program. We are all consumers to varying degrees. Most of us can do little to influence trends. Here is what all of us can do as hunters to help slow the degredation of hunting lands and wintering grounds. It really doesn't cost that much and unfortunately most hunters find some stupid reason not to participate. Join a conservation group, give them a small donation for a membership or donate in bigger ways such as serving on a local committee. Join one or more of the many groups out there that are doing something about conserving habitat. Join MDF, CMDA, RMEF, SFW, TNC, or any of the other fine groups. Doing something is always better than doing nothing.

Fred Judson
BeanMan
Member MDF, RMEF, CMDA, TNC

 

[ICMDEER]

RE: Do something smart!

Loss of habitat is important. But the big issue is just population growth. As the number of people grows, we live in new places and affect the critters that live there. We are losing millions of acres of ag land every year in the U.S., and when it is paved, it is no longer wildlife habitat. Depending upon the use and location, sometimes it is major, sometimes not so bad.

But remember that humans also enhance wildlife habitat. Here in eastern Wyoming, there was not much water before ranchers came and drilled water wells, developed springs, put in pipelines, etc. Same for lots of other country. We planted alfalfa, wheat, corn and a lot more that benefit muleys.

I've been seeing 60-80 mule deer and 10-20 verminous whitetails on my place on the way to work lately. I live right in the middle of them and they dont mind. They like the habitat we create and winter VERY WELL.

This is another one of those complex issues, but the bottom line is with more people, you usually have poorer habitat and fewer big game critters.

Jim

 

[kidneystone]

RE: Do something smart!

COWKILLER:

Nobody said you should condone it, did they? Who suggested you should condone it?

What you should do is YOUR part. If you feel houses are wrong to build in winter range habitat, then tear down your house and plant the vegatation back that existed there 70 years ago. Set an example not point a finger. Start a campaign for everyone to do the same. You could convert your entire town into the former winter range.

For those of you that think there are too many people, set the example through suicide to reduce the population. Set the example don't point fingers.