N
no_draws
Guest
Is it me or does the Online system seem a bit over matched this year. Took nearly 3 hours to apply for my hunts.
JG
JG
AZtrophyhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 774
I thought it was to easy. Your chances of getting drawn have to decrease when all of the lazy people who don't even really care about hunting apply just because their friend talked them into it. At the click of a button, you're in the system. Next thing you know, he draws a unit 1 bull elk tag & only makes it out for the first weekend. Bring back snail mail! lol
3
30_378shtr
Guest
I agree trophy hunter. Over the past couple years since AZGFD made the application online, they have seen record numbers of applicants. The biggest problem I have is with the non-residents who can put in and use their credit card. More people are now putting in out of state because they don't have to pay for it up front. It's frustrating.
B
BOWHNTG
Guest
One way to cure all of that is to charge the credit cards up front. It'd knock down the number of out of stater's and fence sitting in-state hunters who could care less if they got drawn or not. I'd be more than happy to pay up front if it meant cutting the applicants back 40%......
D
_droptine_
Guest
BOWHNTG,
That is how (charge the credit cards up front) the Colorado online apps worked this year. I am glad they do it this way.
That is how (charge the credit cards up front) the Colorado online apps worked this year. I am glad they do it this way.
B
Bucher
Guest
Well said AZtrophy! I agree with you 100%. I really wish that the Game and Fish would raise the fee's to help keep those who tend not be serious about hunting out. Just last year, my next door neighbor's son's friend which is a PETA member, put in the for first time for a rifle bull tag in unit 9 and drew the tag. I was very upset at the news, and many would ask, did he hunt? Hell no! In fact, he ripped his tag up that he got in the mail.
A
AZbowhntr
Guest
That would be nice if they would charge up front. I also don't think they should have extended the deadline a day because of a computer problem. If you waited until the last day, you are not a serious hunter anyways. I would bet that most successful hunters put in way before the last day or two.
I don't mind paying a little extra for a tag because of inflation but I don't like the idea of paying more to keep the number of applicants down. That just makes it a rich mans sport.
I don't mind paying a little extra for a tag because of inflation but I don't like the idea of paying more to keep the number of applicants down. That just makes it a rich mans sport.
swivelhead
Member
- Messages
- 85
Big game hunting is allready a rich man's game. We're lucky to have a lottery for permits. What if the state auctioned off the permits like they do state land? I got a problem giving the government my cash for something I might get. Keep it cheap, we need more hunters. Using wealth to eliminate lottery competition is snobbery. For you guys who want to pay more the AZG&F will gladly accept your donations.
Why are you frustrated, only a small percentage of the total permits go to non-residents anyway. You should be frustrated with the residents that apply. They are the ones that affect your draw odds. Maybe if they would increase the resident fees to match the non-resident fees then you draw odds would certainly be better.
N
no_draws
Guest
Well said....
All you "rich" hunters need to stuff a sock in it. Besides, people that get drawn and don't hunt actually help next years numbers slightly. If they don't hunt, the overall kill percentage will be lower and the desired number of animals may not have been taken so next year "should" have a slightly higher number of available tags (in theory).
JG
All you "rich" hunters need to stuff a sock in it. Besides, people that get drawn and don't hunt actually help next years numbers slightly. If they don't hunt, the overall kill percentage will be lower and the desired number of animals may not have been taken so next year "should" have a slightly higher number of available tags (in theory).
JG
A
AZbowhntr
Guest
Rich doesn't have anything to do with it. If I can't afford to hunt elk, I'm not going to put in and worry about paying for the tag later. I don't think that the number of people putting in has gone up so fast because it is only convenient. People are putting in now because they don't have to come up with money now and can put it on their credit card later. I would be pissed if I had been putting in for sheep for the last umpteen years earning points and now all of a sudden the numbers of people putting in doubled. What do you think that does to your odds? It doesn't matter if you had a bunch of bonus points or not. The odds are that you won't ever draw a tag now.
D
_droptine_
Guest
How does paying for a tag upfront, versus paying after a tag is drawn make someone "rich"? It is the exact same amount of money either way.
N
no_draws
Guest
I was referring to those people that wanted to raise tag fees as "rich".. I for one would rather they change the lottery into some kind of contest. Maybe have all the hunters thumb wrestle for tags or something (haha). I will admit that I put in for Antelope this year only because I didn't have to caugh up the cash up front. Doesn really matter, I have the money now and I'll still have it when/if I get drawn. Plus, why would anyone want the Game and Fish to hold their money until draw results are posted? You're paying interest on it for pete's sake. They are making interest on the money while they hold it. Then it cost them to have to process all the refunds.
JG
JG
D
_droptine_
Guest
For me, the bottom line is that if they charge up front, then less people will put in for the draw and that increases my odds of drawing.
A
AZbowhntr
Guest
We were talking about the system going down at work the other day and this is what we decided. They should give the permits out to the first people to put in as soon as the online process is available. The system goes down because everyone is trying to get on at the same time (just like now at the end). And then it pretty much becomes a lottery because you never know when the system will come up so your stuck sitting on your computer trying to get through all the time. Once all the permits are gone it is over. There is no waiting for a month to see if you drew or not. And everyone has the same chance. I thought that was pretty funny.
No draw, I am not rich I just chose to make hunting one of the most important aspects of my life. It does not bother me when they raise tag prices. It thins out the people like you who put in just because they dont have anything else to do at the moment. Thus giving me a better chance of drawing a tag.
AZBuckSnort
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,075
I believe the application process over the internet should be identical to the prior "paper" process, with the added benefits being the speed, accuracy, and instant confirmation that the application was successfully received and correctly completed. All monies should be collected up front and then electronic refunds issued to the credit cards of the unsuccessful applicants. This would result in added revenue to the AZG&F in the form of interest on the monies billed up front and held until the refunds are issued.
Having to front all the monies for all tags applied for would cut down on the casual applicants, IMO, as well as those who may now be applying every eligible family memeber for every hunt in the hopes of getting at least one "good tag" in the household.
Having to front all the monies for all tags applied for would cut down on the casual applicants, IMO, as well as those who may now be applying every eligible family memeber for every hunt in the hopes of getting at least one "good tag" in the household.
I believe Az game & fish is looking into Colorado's application process. From what I understand azgfd said it is illegal to charge credit card without services/merchandise rendered. For this reason, G&F can't charge a card unless an applicant is actually drawn. Personally, I hope they can work something out where the money is put up at the time of drawing because something needs to be done. As an Arizona native who has been bowhunting since 1978 I have seen what used to be almost 100% chance of drawing a bull tag (early to mid 80's) dwindle to about 10%. By the way, non-residents have just as good a chance to draw as a resident if they have the same amount of bonus points. I can't understand why AZ has about the cheapest non-resident tag available. IMHO we have the best elk hunting and we are charging a little more than half of what new mexico does.
AS far as WHEN people apply electronically it makes absolutley no difference in the application process. It isn't until ALL the applications have been entered into the system that they are assigned random numbers. This includes the people who still mail in there applications. For example: if 50k people apply for elk (rifle, muzz, bow) and those people have a total of 250k bonus points among them, then they assign a random number from 1 to 250K to all the hunters and each of their bonus points. Say you had 5 bonus points, then you were assigned 6 random number (they start counting at zero because people with no bonus points are given 1 random number). The program keeps your lowest random number and throws out the rest. If the draw gods were good to you they would have given you a low enough number that a tag will still be available to you when you number comes up. It looks at your first choice first, if that is full it looks at your second choice. If both are full, then your name is set aside until all the tags have been filled or all the applicants have been checked for their first and second choices. Which ever comes first. If there are tags still available then they reasign random numbers again and then the whole process starts over again until the tags are gone or all the 3,4, and 5 choices have been checked. I can only remember 2 times since about 1986 that there were any tags left after everyones applications had been processed for elk.
I apologize for being so long winded.
John
AS far as WHEN people apply electronically it makes absolutley no difference in the application process. It isn't until ALL the applications have been entered into the system that they are assigned random numbers. This includes the people who still mail in there applications. For example: if 50k people apply for elk (rifle, muzz, bow) and those people have a total of 250k bonus points among them, then they assign a random number from 1 to 250K to all the hunters and each of their bonus points. Say you had 5 bonus points, then you were assigned 6 random number (they start counting at zero because people with no bonus points are given 1 random number). The program keeps your lowest random number and throws out the rest. If the draw gods were good to you they would have given you a low enough number that a tag will still be available to you when you number comes up. It looks at your first choice first, if that is full it looks at your second choice. If both are full, then your name is set aside until all the tags have been filled or all the applicants have been checked for their first and second choices. Which ever comes first. If there are tags still available then they reasign random numbers again and then the whole process starts over again until the tags are gone or all the 3,4, and 5 choices have been checked. I can only remember 2 times since about 1986 that there were any tags left after everyones applications had been processed for elk.
I apologize for being so long winded.
John
How about doing what they did on the "points only" option, but for everything. You pay the whole tag fee just to apply, no refund. That will cut down applications, especially nonresidents. Just kidding. But, all the people bitching about too many applicants are in the minority. I am sure the department looks at lots of applications as a sign that the system is popular and working, not the other way around.
S
Snapshot
Guest
In my opinion, the most logical way to get better draw odds would be to not allow successful applicants to apply the following year. keep a revolving cycle going that would give everyone ( Non- residents included) a better chance to draw.
I have been an Arizona resident for 30 years, and have not been drawn for elk since 1997, yet I talk to guys that get drawn much more frequently, sometimes a couple of years in a row. The same is happening with deer permits in my hunt area. Twenty five years ago Game and Fish could not get rid of all the leftover tags, now the draw odds are about 25% or less.
The system needs to change in order to allow a broader spectrum in the draw process.
What is your opinion on this subject.
I have been an Arizona resident for 30 years, and have not been drawn for elk since 1997, yet I talk to guys that get drawn much more frequently, sometimes a couple of years in a row. The same is happening with deer permits in my hunt area. Twenty five years ago Game and Fish could not get rid of all the leftover tags, now the draw odds are about 25% or less.
The system needs to change in order to allow a broader spectrum in the draw process.
What is your opinion on this subject.
