Questions for dkpeay

Wes

Wes

Very Active Member
Messages
1,165
This question has been asked before without an honest answere so I'll ask you directly. What is the sole purpose of selling Governors tags or auctioning tags to the highest bidder? Many have said it's to raise money to help wildlife. If thats the case why doesn't the DOW raise the cost of the average license to cover the cost? I imagine your answere will be it's because hunters will squack about paying higher prices for licenses and tags. If thats the argument why doesn't the DOW simply have a lottery draw where anyone can buy as many chances as they want which would give everyone the feeling they were on equal footing? Do you think these so called great hunters who purchase the auction tags at prices the average hunter could never afford would be willing to put up their money to help wildlife in a lottery situation if they weren't gaurenteed a tag?
I'm against the selling of Governors tags or auctioning tags to the highest bidder when it gives the advantage to the wealthy over the average working class hunter. Now your gonna say there are conservation tags available to the average hunter but as far as I'm aware there is only tag per species available in the conservation draw but there are considerably more tags available to the wealthy bidders and SFW is asking for even more. Why is that? I'm also against the longer seasons that give the advantage to the so called great hunter. Most if not all of the animals killed on the auctioned tags are killed in late winter. It certanly doesn't take much effort or hunting or guideing skills to find the animals that are stressed by winter. I would appreciate your response.
Wes
 
this one has been fought about a lot on this site, but it is an important issue. First off, you will be attacked because most of the people in support of these tags want to frame this as a "class warfare" thing, this argument in a nutshell is the "you are just jealous of people with money" one. Sadly, some people are against these tags just for that reason, and that is wrong because there are so many legitimate reasons to be against these tags. Secondly, almost all of the people who religiously defend these auction tags usually, not always, but usually comes from a guiding/outfitting background.

On the surface, these tags don't seem all that bad. But when you dig a little deeper you start to see the problems. The first issue to address is the money that they raise. Yes, they do raise some money, but the amount of money that they are raising could easily be raised by just raising the tag fees a little bit. A few extra dollars per tag would get you very close. Also a lottery type system where everybody who purchases a general season tag would be eligible would also work well. So, the reality of it is that the money that these tags raise could easily be achieved in some very simple alternative ways.

These tags are about money and prestige. The prestige comes from the individual who buys the tag, he/she gets to go out and shoot an animal that will most likely be in a class by itself. There is also prestige brought to the groups (like SFW) who sponser the banquets and gin up all the hoopla. And finally back to the money, from what I understand their is quite a cottage industry springing up to "facilitate" these tag purchasers in their quest. You have $10,000 guides, landowners, etc etc. And don't forget the DVD sales that come from the videotaping of the taking of the animal.

If this tag was done on some type of lottery system available to all tag holders, nine times out of ten an average guy would get drawn, he would go out on some public land, find a nice mid twenties 4 pt and take the animal. He wouldn't hire $10,000 guides, etc etc. It will be next to impossible to undue these governer tags now because there are so many people who have a vested financial interest in them.

The next big argument is that it is "only one deer, and look at all the money it is raising". True, it is only one deer. But we all ##### and moan on this site about how truly rare "monster muleys" are now. There is probably only a handful, if that many, of these types of bucks in our Western states anymore, and to allow the taking of even a few of them CAN have an impact on the herds. Things that are rare are supposed to be hoarded and protected.

just my thoughts
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-04 AT 11:39PM (MST)[p]Very well stated.

I have a quarter in my pocket so I might as well spend it.
I think the "animal" being taken belongs to every hunter and therefore everyone should have an equal opportunity. Surely you would achieve the same dollar figure (if not more, much more) if the game dept. had a simple "5 buck" for a trophy buck raffle. sure, mister big spender could buy 80K worth of tickets, but in a raffle even the trucker, teacher, or teenager who bought a ticket would have a chance.
The only thing that would suffer would be the ego of the gazillionaire that couldn't relay the story over a hundred year scotch to the other rich white guys at the "club". I don't know anyone that could afford a tag, better yet, I don't know anyone that would want to buy one of those tags. And thats the way I like it. Most of the "hunters" I know would use the 81k to:

-Buy a big cozy diesel
-pay of a few bills
-buy the mrs. something pretty
-buy a new pair of boots that don't leak
-buy pair of "top shelf" optics (the ones we're always talking about)
-Then buy a tag for their dad, brother, son, daughter or pal to share a great hunt with.

-and still have enough to do it for 3 or 4 years in a row.

I don't blame these guys that buy the tag, afterall, its kinda their choice and a few hundred years ago a bunch of crazies fought some funny looking guys in red coats for that choice. (and kicked ass I might add). For one reason or another these tag buyers (or daddy) have made a good choice or two and have some real deep pockets full of hay to throw around. Kudos. I personally still need to look in the mirror and sleep at night, and buying an opportunity isn't in the family handbook. So, for now, I'll enjoy the family hunting trips and continue to "limit out" on the one trophy these guys can never buy.....family and friendly memories of times chasing average deer, on public land, with good people always dreaming that the "muy grande" is right around the corner. Fueled by blood sweat and luck, not my wallet (or daddy's). The american way.


th_Jack.jpg

Take er easy
five_point_buck *
 
Wes,

First of all, SFW is not asking for anymore than current Conservation Permits - to hear otherwise is pure speculation with some people trying to tear SFW down.

There is one "governors buck tag" a rich dude buys, an done governors tag anyone can apply for and get for $5. They both get the long season.

Ten years ago, The DWR leadership stopped trying to fix Utah's deer herds, and they wanted to use Sportsmen deer license money to start non-game programs for non-hunters.

At the same time, environmentalists shut down chaingin resseding projects on public lands, and enviros took over the public land agencies - no timber cutting, no mule deer habitat restoration, just let nature take its course. The only problem with this is cheet grass and other non-natives have already destroyed the "natural system" and the only way to fix it is through man made efforts.

Additionally, the legislature at that time was controlled by real estate and anti-wildlife folks who banned the acquistion of any more winter range or lands for wildilfe.

And of course, the DWR never had any money.

So, we started a sportsmen group to try and fix some of these things. SFW has been buying winter range - about 2,000 acres in Utah the last couple of years. It will be open to the public, but deer are usually not on it. Land is very expensive.

We have been to DC many times, and the BLM and Forest Service is starting to do deer projects again - drive through southern utah you can see them. The BLM is proposing $50 Million over ten years, Utah needs to find $50 Million more. Where do you suggest this come from?

SFW has been beat up on MM for putting pressure on the DWR to get back into spending our deer and elk license money on deer and elk programs (We are bullys some say), but every sportsmen I talk to agrees. And to be very truthful, the current DWR Director has put a lot of empahsis back into fixing deer ranges, something that has been neglected for decades. The drought has also killed 600,000 acres of sage brush in Utah.

the Governors tag program was started to raise valuable money that actually goes on the ground the conservation permit program was added to get more money, because the program was getting good results.

I will give you a few specific examples:

SFW spent $400,000 on the Henry Mts. This is greatly helping the Bison and deer herd down there.

THe Sheep foundation has spent $2.5 Million. Sheep herds and sheep hunting is increased 500% over the last ten years, tags have gone from 8 a year to 55, and should go over 100.

The Wild Turkey guys (NWTF) has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and wild turkey flocks are up dramatically and so is hunting opportunity.

There has been a lot of elk habitat money spent, and in some areas elk herds are allowed to increase. Millions have been spent making more elk habitat. Ten years ago, there were about 600 trophy elk tags a year, today there is 1250, there may be the chance to go to 2,000 a year. So the question I ask, is, are these tags taking away opportunity, or in the long term increasing opportunity? these numbers seem to indicate they are increasing. Ten years ago, ranchers wanted to cut elk herds down to half or less of what they are today. Because of habitat investment, there is a lot more food, and the ranchers are a lot more accepting of larger elk herds.

Mule Deer do not have the record of sucess - yet. BUt SFW has spent a lot of conservation permit money in places and it is starting to show results in some areas. Just last week, 440 acres of winter range was bought - now it will be for wildlife, not lost to developement. It cost $500,000. $50 Million could be spent securing critical winter range and it still would not be enough.

So, some believe a large part of the reason turkey, elk, bighon, goats, moose are increasing, and even deer in some areas are increasing is becuase of the great projects these permits fund. Others argue, it is taking permits away.

In Utah, these tags generate about $1.6 Million a year, and I believe they help bring another $3 Million of sales tax money into wildilfe programs. There is a long explanation, but I am pretty sure I could prove this point.

So, in reality these permits add $4.6 Million a year. To get the same money, deer hunters would have to pay another $46 a year. Or do as other states do - give a lot more tags to higher cost non-resident permits.

Another sleeping giant out there is 3.5 million acres of School Trust Lands - many acres are being sold off each year. If wildlie interests do not acquire these lands, herds will decline, and there will be less tags for everyone.

As Utah adds 3 million more people, with all the houses, the roads, the traffic, the loss of habitat, the sale of trust lands, we deer and elk hunters face some huge challanges.

The Nature Conservancy is trying to get a $150 Million bond on the November ballot. It would be paid back by a penny on every $20 purchase of sales tax. A lot of this $150 million could go for critical habitat.

I love to hunt, I hope my kids and grandkids have something to hunt. We could go spend $150 Million on great projects to protect what needs protecting and fix the federal lands.

I wished deer hunters had joined together and spent a lot of money on land 30 years ago when it was cheap, but they didn't.

So I ask this question in all sincerity, where are we deer and elk hunters going to find $150 Million needed to fix and protect deer and elk habitat. That is about $1,500 for each of the 100,000 or so big game hunters in Utah?

One last comment, a lot of these "big money hunters" are very nice guys and they give a lot of money for conservation in addition to their tag money. They may have a long season, but due to time schedules only hunt 3 or 4 days, admitedly in some prime time. some guys don't even take an animal after shelling out $60,000.

I have not shot a buck in Utah for 9 years, and I have never killed a mature bull - ever in any state. Yet, I support these tags because I see the great projects they fund, and there is a lot of information that says there are actually getting to be more tags, not less for us average guys to draw.

The other argument can be made that "the rich guys can buy them" the rest have to draw them. True statement. YOu can argue both sides of the argument.

YOu asked a good question, I gave a long answer, and I certainly don't have all the answers. But, it is a very serious and big issue facing Utah hunters and hunters in the west. How do we meet the demands of more people, more roads, more oil and gas, etc?

Don Peay
 
Thanks for responding Don Peay, how much of these Conservation tags that are sold at SFW banguets are solely used for SFW Saleries?? Those are some big saleries to pay with such limited income from the Conservation tag sales ONLY at SFW banquets. So your getting how much$$$$ plus expenses but telling folks you sold the family business and decided to commit your life to wildlife but your getting great money form SFW.... not really committing your life to wildlife but more like a new job with an income and expenses???

How come we always hear in the future it will by x amount of tags and this has been going on for like 5-6 years now and the only real increase is minimal??

How come the 5% rule on Conservation tags is so out of wack when it comes to sheep tags auctioned/ 1 raffled and the draw tags are down in numbers??

Can ya keep your self promoting essay under 1000 words please?? Thanks, Robb
 
Robb,

A couple of things many people don't understand. It takes ten years from the day a sheep habitat project is done, transplants are funded, and tags are finally issued. Same for deer habitat and growing big bucks and bulls. Apparantely some people don't have the long term view required in wildlife and biological systems, they flat take time ten years to see a return. But sheep tags are up 500%, what is wrong with that? Turkey tags are up 500%, elk tags are up 200%, the Henrys and Book cliffs and vernon were closed no look at them. Quality has never been better in Utahs history - except for deer. And, all the investments should make things better.

Second, wildlife is a very complicated issue, you cant answer a question in one sentance. CAll it self promotion. Perhaps some have a simplistic mind that can't solve a complex issue, or see the long term investment and return.

The stuff about SFW salaries is very misleading. If you want a detailed answer, one can be provided, call me.

Wes, one more thing for you to think about. SFW gets hammered by some for "taking 5% of the tags away." Many others think it is great because the investment is making a lot more tags for everyone.

But here is the question. An outfitter sued Arizona and won in court. A judge ruled that Arizona can't give 90% tags to Arizona Residents and 10% to non-resident. In a drawing just last week, 755 out of 806 great Arizona tags went to non-residents. - Close to 90% of tags lost.

I seen and SFW bash about big egos at SFW banquets. With this issue now being challanged in Nevada, and surely coming to Utah, do you think Utah sportsmen and sportsmen around the west just might appreciate a group like SFW that has the money, the clought, the knowledge to reverse this trend, and make sure it doesn't ruing hunting in every western state?

Not seeing the big picture, and having a group big enough to do somehting about it has cost hunters a lot. This was a major problem with deer hunters. we all sat around and fought each other about who got the best season, the longest season, archers, muzzleloaders, rifle and in the mean time, anti-wildife ranchers, anti-hunters, real estate developers and tree huggers forced big changes that cost utah is once 600,000 head of deer, deer herd.

Wes, I appreciate you asking legitimate questions and we can disagree or you can help change positions.

Thanks

Don
 
Robb,

It's quite amazing to me that guys like you have nothing better to do than try to smear my husband on Monster Muleys! At least you use your name - unlike many who hide behind their little code names.

I've supported Don for many, many years in this cause. SFW has a great team of people over the entire state who make great things happen. The reason why I support what he does is because he loves wildlife and it really means something to him. Don has a chemical engineering degree as well as an MBA. Do you have any idea how much people with those types of degrees make? Don still makes well under what he could make in the private sector.

I'd personally like to know how much money do you make Robb? Maybe I can throw out some personal digs against you. Maybe you can stop for a minute and realize what you are doing. Everything that SFW does is approved by a Board of Directors from around the State. I would like to challenge you to quit your job, start your own sportsman group, try to raise enough money to do tons of awesome projects for wildlife, personally fund the group for many, many summers while you are trying to get it to survive, and then have many ungrateful, stupid hunters slam you on the internet. Get a clue. People have no idea how much our family has sacrificed to try to make hunting and wildlife better in Utah.

It would be so much easier for me to have Don do a job that he doesn't love so much. Don and I went to PF Changs the other day for lunch. We ran into an SFW member. I actually felt guilty for being at lunch with my husband. It's almost like we're not entitled to have a life.

Sincerely (from a spouse who's heard it all!!)

Susan Peay
 
Don,

You're getting to be a great politian. Robb asked a very detailed question, and you side-stepped it. He simply asked what percentage of the money from the sale of the conservation permits goes toward the payment of salaries of the SFW staff? How would one go about finding out what each conservation permit sold for? Is there a list one can access?

I'm not here to run you down, or bash SFW. I realize that just funding game departments is tough enough. Without the extra revenue from these special tags, any transplants or habitat improvements would not happen. The governor tags have saved sheep hunting, and the sheep herds. Thanks for your time, and keep fighting the good fight.
 
I don't know what conservation permits and Don's income have to do with each other. When people join the SFW, they pay a membership fee. What makes the SFW so effective, is having a lobbyist fighting for our rights. When I pay my membership, I understand that some of the money goes to pay for a lobbyist. In Utah's case, Don Peay is that man. Who can do a full time job for free? Not me. I wish we could all get paid for doing what we love, but we can't. I like my steady paycheck and benefits too much to stick my neck out like Don Peay. So, get over it guys. People have to make a living somehow. Just be glad he's making his living fighting for our side, and not the anti's side (I'm sure their lobbyist get paid as well).

Dan
 
dwalton,

an answer. each group SFW, RMEF, NWTF, etc keeps 10% of the permit sale price for marketing fees. So, I think SFW sold $700,000 worth of tags last year, that is $70,000 SFW keeps for marketing and salary or whatever.

Yes, each year, the DWR post who sold what tags for how much. i believe this is at the Wildlife Board meeting.

I will answer one more pertinent question about money and SFW salaries, since the question or innuendo was brought up.

First, SFW funds a lo, I think $70,000 this year in on the ground projects that are not Conservation permit monies, or even the CP 10%. One for example was feeding $25,000 worth of feed in Logan last year to keep a deer herd alive.

If an SFW contract employee says he makes $6,000 a month, you may assume that is $72,000 a year, plus benefits, plus expenses.

the reality is, that person would have been paid $6,000 flat fee. This person must pay their own 15% self employement social security tax ($900 a month), health, medical, dental, etc insurance ($500 a month), they have to have their own office, they get no money for lights, gas, electricity, property tax, property insurance. So, the $72,000 is really like $52,000. then, you have to pay the tax man federal income tax and state tax like everyone else.

Finally, if someone were to say they made $6,000 a month, and were third highest in monthly salary, technically this could be correct. But, if the person is paid $6,000 (flat fee, must pay all the above taxes, insurance) for twelve months, and another person is paid $6,500 for 6 or 8 months, depending upon the work load that year (saves the SFW members a lot of money to match employee work schedule to fit business needs) then based on an total annaul "compensation", the $6,000 at 12 months guy is really second, not third.

Some times things are complicated, and can be easily mistrued.

thanks guys, I am banned from the net for a while, my bosses said I have been a bad boy.

This is a great tool to ask questions. if anyone wants a more direct question and answer, [email protected].

thanks
 
Don and nmtaxi,

Thanks for the speedy and thoughtful replies. Hopefully your answers will cause most of the name calling and bashing to stop. Don, I appreciate the effort you've put forth on the FNAWS Board.
 
Susan,
Thanks for your reply, I too have herd enough from this obvious effort to try to hurt SFW & critisize its founder.
smacks like a smear campaign which has grown old.
Truthfully I wish some of you could save your efforts to actually do something postitive for wildlife, instead of sitting there behind your keyboard anonimously hammering at someone that has.
It's much easier to lay back & take pot shots at other peoples efforts, than do something yourself, to that I say, get a life, & start creating something positive, instead of sitting back and trying to lambaste someone who has.
 
I think through reasonable dialogue this tool can be effective.

Not that I care, but putting Tony's salary into perspective with the benefits and all, makes reasonable sense.

Don, I believe you hold the power to take things into any direction that you seem fit within reason. It does bother me that FNAWS can use Pahvant elk tags to auction, but SFW cannot use sheep tags for deer. After all, they are the money machine. Believe me, I have had my nose rubbed in that pile more than once. 'We sold your Pahvant elk tag last night.' I think conservation tags do have their place, unfortunately we have to use those with money, its just the way it is.

I cannot understand some of these people around here. They gripe about the great elk herd and gripe about no deer. They need opportunity and their kids need to hunt. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Please, cut the deer tags back further. Cut lion tags, for those who enjoy that sport. Draw pheasant permits as they do swan or something? We just don't have the habitat and resources no more. Could we implement all general season tags into the same kind of program as dedicated hunter. 97,000 can draw a tag, but only 2 deer every 4 years that you draw. I know that idea is broad, but could something like that work to make people choose on what they want, rather than kill, kill, and kill? Cut the harvest in half. 2 tags on a license one for the carcass and one is mailed into the F&G. This would be a great information gathering tool too. If people were to choose 2 deer in 4 years they may think twice about killing a 2 point because they need blood on their hands. If they want meat that can be their decision to make. Just like the spike only rule. You can hunt, but kill a spike. IT WORKED AND IT WORKED GREAT.
 
Don thanks for the candid responses, I appreciate you keeping the spin and political/financial b.s. to a minumum.
lets get to the perceptions that have put me off of SFW and I will tell it like it is viewed by me.

1 why does SFW have a payroll of more than 1 person
RMEF has one full time paid person in the state and a legal eagle
on a part time basis that has made under $1500.00 a year. The banquets are run by VOLUNTEERS you do not need to pay someone $6000.00 per month weather it is pre or post tax.

2 It appears that there could be some backscratching with your involvement in the wildlife board employment process.

3 why not add a waiting period to the Conservation tags It would sure be nice not to have a certain guide buy multiple permits each year and then dispatch his " local town folk scouting crews " to run the herds all summer and during the archery hunts.

4 Throw a bone to the little guy every now and then, as a bowhunter I watched you personally oppose every UBA proposal at last years RACs, Why?? why do Bowhunters lose AR-301 because of waiting periods but if you have ten grand for a tag waiting periods don't need to apply. Why oppose a hunt with a 14% success rate to ( This Year ) add more tags to a hunt with an over 90% success rate. Not good for wildlife hunters or opportunity.

5 lose the arrogance of SFW I saw the e mail concerning the Elk Committee that was sent. SFW does not have the corner on knowledge and outward appearance is if it is not the SFW way people don't know what they are talking about or I believe the exact phrase was they don't know JACK. I would be happy to send you a copy in private if you would like.


Don I appreciate the effort you put forth for hunters in Utah
although I rarely agree with your stances I believe with the coming reforms at SFW some good may be realized.

Gordy
 
Don,

I don't know who you are, I've never heard of you, heck, to tell you the truth, I don't even know what SFW stands for.
I appreciate your responses, as they were clear and well thought out. I'm kinda confused why your wife pulled Cass' famous "brother Ely" trick and posted using your handle, but in all accounts it seems your family is very passionate about what you do, and that probably expalins it. To get to my point, for the sake of not only the Utah hunters, but for all us hunters who may someday hunt Utah, I surely hope your not jacking anyone around. That would be pretty messed up. Keep up the good work that helps animals, and stay away from the bad work that will make the black eye we all share as hunters bigger.


th_Jack.jpg

Take er easy
five_point_buck *
 
Why is it when anyone asks a pointed question, disagrees, or offers another suggestion to the SFW they are labled with names like "ungrateful, stupid hunters" or those that hide behind their computer names and do nothing to further wildlife? That's quite an assumption to make of someone you have never met. I read the initial question on this thread and it seemed fair to me.

In my opinion (for what that's worth) all hunters may not attend every single RAC meeting or any at all for that matter but as a group they sure contribute a ton of money to the cause and that makes them all friends of mine. I agree with some and disagree with some but I have no doubt when it comes time to protect our hunting rights they will be there. Doesn't make any sense to call them names when they disagree.

Seems to me that if the SFW's aim is to be the voice of hunters in this state, questions would be promptly and honestly answered, suggestions fully considered and most of all, Listen to all hunters in this state instead of ridiculing them for attempting to be active (even if it is with a question posted on the internet).

It's great to have quality elk and deer herds in our state no doubt. But it seems an attempt to unite a majority of hunters has not been accomplished and in my opinion the key. Accomplish this and not only will I sign up but I'll convince all my friend to do so.

Respectfully

Another Ungrateful Stupid Hunter (my other name is in my profile)
 
I don't think anyone has used that term for the person who posed the initial question, and the reason for that was because his question was reasonable
 
For hell's sake tripper, get a clue would ya. Now do I need to give a public relations lesson? It is not who it was addressed to, its the fact that it was said, period. Another way to influence people and win over friends; call then stupid. Is it that I am stupid? Or, am I stupid because I hunt? It is like you calling people dumb-ass.;-)

As the Oz scarecrow says, again; "I would not just be a nothin', my head all full of stuffin' if I only had a brain." :)

I will say it again, breaking bread with you folks who call people dumb-ass, stupid, ungrateful, and brainless on banquet night would have to be a highlight of my life for sure.

Hiding behind "my little tag name,"
ktc
 
Just pointing out that Dk doesn't respond that way until someone tries to degrade him or his work and I think most people are like that.
 
One thing in life I've learned is you can't change people. I could type until my fingers hurt and either you will like Don or you won't. I obviously won't convince jshutah that he's a great guy who works tiredlessly for wildlife. It's okay to disagree, but if anyone wants to read over the mean things people say they may understand why I called the man "stupid and ungrateful" - only after he slams my husband personally. I'm not saying that hunters are stupid. I have the upmost respect for hunters and have seen so many people get involved. But is it fair to ask that people don't slam someone personally even if they don't agree with what is happening with wildlife promotion/policies in Utah and surrounding states? I'm done reading this and don't expect any more from me. I appreciate those who support SFW and guarantee that everyone involved has nothing but sincere and good intentions for wildlife.
Thanks - Susan Peay
 
How can you guarantee that everyone involved with SFW is sincere and have good intentions for wildlife? When you see a board member of SFW (Wade Heaton) in trouble for trapping a 36inch buck against a fence and blowing it over, it becomes very hard to believe that everyone in SFW have good intentions. Somewhere along the line the vision of SFW has been lost. Money and power changes people. It's sad but true. Hopefully, the original vision can be re-established and we can all work together to solve our many wildlife issues. Especially the issues with our mule deer herd right now.
 
Where there's smoke there's fire. It sure seems like the spoils system is alive and well at SFW. I think the burden of proof is on SFW to show that they aren't becoming corrupt. Until they lay everything out in the open they won't have much credibility with most sportsmen. Convince us Don.

P.S. It just looks pitiful when "momma" has to come to your defense.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-04-04 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]I thought post 21 was erased so here it is again.
How can you guarantee that everyone involved with SFW has good intentions for wildlife? When a board member for SFW (Wade Heaton) is in trouble for trapping a 36 inch buck against a fence and blowing it over, it becomes hard to believe that everyone involved with SFW has good intentions. Somewhere along the line the SFW vision has been lost. Money and power changes people. It's sad but true. Hopefully, SFW can re-establish its original vision and we can all work together on the many issues facing our wildlife. Especially, our declining mule deer problem. So when do we begin? And when can I expect SFW to get on track and be the group they were promised to be, the average hunters voice? When this happens you can count me in.
 
If you can't take the heat, get outta the hot seat!

I know very little about SFW and have learned what I do know about it from the good folks here no MM. I read alot more than I ever post.

My $0.02.... if things were on the up and up, Don and his wife wouldn't even bother trying to refute the claims on this site. Obviously I side with the.. "where there's smoke there is fire".. camp. Something is amuck and someone needs to come clean. I too think it is on Don and the SFW Board to right this ship, and that is not something you accomplish by posting on MM. Get us sportsman in this state(UT) a real document/report without the political spin and hype that shows us what SFW really is and how things are run. I won't buy into any organization until I FULLY understand how it is run ( fiscal to operational). The owness is now on SFW to do right by sportsman and prove to us that what the Mrs. claims is truth.
 
From an outsiders point of view, I appreciate Wes's question, and really appreciate the answer that he got back. Very professional. Thanks Don and Susan. I don't know who you are, but you were very honest and tried to answer the questions asked.
Doug Kikendall
 
Don,

I think that I have the same problem as many other Utah sportsmen who are skeptical towards the SFW. The organization as a whole has lost its vision. It's nothing more that a power hungry, self-centered cliche for those who have their own agendas. If I (and many others) are wrong, then please by all means tell me. All I ever hear at the RACs is Don & Co from the SFW speaking for the hunters of Utah. I assure you this is not the case. You may speak for SFW, but not for every hunter in Utah. The thing that bothers me is that when a board/executive member from SFW speaks at the RACs, everyone is expected to bow down and accept it as gospel. No one better disagree or else they are truly unethical, and definitely not conservation minded. I'm not trying to sling mud, please know this. I'm just telling you the vibe that "the average hunter" feels and has been for the past few years regarding the SFW. I would really like to believe that you (and the organization) are sincere and genuine in your concern for Utah's wildlife. But I must admit that so far I'm not convinced. It would be awesome if there was an organization out there that was. I think that SFW may have started out this way, but certainly not anymore. I think the least you and SFW as an organization could do is make public a paper trail as to where funding goes, and what SFW's intentions are and why (on a regular basis pertaining to issues with the DWR, and the state's wildlife). Maybe if people were kept informed, they would be more eager to support your (SFW's) cause. I know I would be.

Again, it's not my intention to get personal. I'm just passing on impressions that I as well as others have had about the way you come across when you are trying to achieve your own agenda. Remember, it's not about you. It never was, or will be in the future. It's not about the SFW either. It's about Utah's wildlife, and making sure that future generations have the same opportunities we do (at the same cost too).

If I am wrong about anything I've said in this post, then please feel free to correct me. I really want to believe that SFW is a good and worthwhile organization, but I must admit I remain skeptical.

Noel Slater (aka eyeguard)








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"You're welcome at my fire anytime!"
 
I live in CA. from when I was a child to the present I've seen habitat ripped from the hunters to the point we are (by many) considered plain animal butcherers. I have seen all kinds of land going to the preservation of wild life called open space preserves. This means if you think of hunting you're wrong and unethical. We in this beautiful state that desire to hunt must drive for hours to be surrounded by other oppressed outdoors men (hunters)with so much pressure that deer camp has become a dude ##### fest. Don't let your rights and land be stripped from you in your out of my state hunting areas. It's a depressing scenario that has allready taken place here. Don't let it happen to you. Jim
 

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