Video License and Insurance on Public Lands???

[Hornseeker]

From the Mossback site (someone posted it to Cass on the Nevada monster post) it says you have to have a permit to film and sell footage on public land....Huh? What if a guy has no intentions of selling footage, but then he comes up with this amazing footage?? Wonder if there would be a way to legally sell if "after the fact"?

Also, what the hell do you need to carry a 1 million dollar insurance policy for to film on public land???

Just curious,

HS

 

[Colville]

The idea here is that the "filming" is commerce. The product is considered a use of a "public resource" so filming for a commercial purpose is first permitted like any other commercial use of public lands/property.

I'm not supporting this, just making the point. As far as the insurance? (my business) As a business one can't operate on state land or city, county etc (commercially) without evidence of liability coverage and that local's OK. They want to insure that ANY suit against YOU that could result from your filming, injury to an employee, injury to a hiker, accidental fire etc that any of these occurences have YOU as the first $1MM of coverage and that you become Primary to any suit involving you and can pay for property damage you cause. The idea being that if the state doesn't permit and require insurance then they have by deffinition "approved" of your use and methods and step up to be the ultimate guy responsible for your actions.

This defrays the costs to the people of the state for your legal liability.

I know, a bunch of gobledygook... thank lawyers for that reality. This is also why if it ins't business, you are fine. As far as what about a family pic or film that oh by the way captures sasquatch or some hot footage.... you'll need a legal opinion but I'd bet you could work that one out, ONCE. Probably hard to do twice...

 

[Hornseeker]

Yeah Colville, I understand all that, as my wife is in insurance too. And yeah, Lawyers are responsible for all this "Gobbledeeguke"

I guess I'm just bitching about the system, LAME!

 

[fin little]

This came up on a thread a few weeks back. I read Mossbacks warning about the new law. My brother and I take a lot of video without specifically intending to sell. On a occasion there is a company that buys some, but we never know what they will want or will use. Its kind of the same situation as a freelance wildlife photographer. They take wildlife photos as stock footage never really knowing who will publish it or if it will ever be sold at all. We met with our local BLM office and explained our situation. It was thier conclusion , no filming permit was needed. I asked if we could just cover our bases and buy a permit for the season.This is were Mossbacks statement confuses me. According to the blm a filming permit is issued for a specific shoot, in a specific area for a specific time. Its designed for movie companies and commercials. It doesnt seem practical for filming hunting videos . I have the permit application in front of me. It states , film permits are issued under the authority of section 302b of the federal land policy and management act of 1976. Mossback, is there a new law? Current filming fees, 1-30 people crew......$ 250 /day/location. The permit may take 30 days to be approved due to an enviromental assessment process. Cost reimbursement for the assement may also be required. It sounds like if your doing a hunting video and this permit is required, you better know when and where your going to kill 30 days in advance! Is there a new law and a different permit system? Is Mossback jumping thru these hoops. The blm person told me an outfitting/guide permit doesnt cover filming. Is thier something our local blm is unaware of?

 

[BUCKSPY]

Bottomline is videographers are screwed because there is no special provision for them. Its a blanketpolicy and unfortunately there isn't much a smalltime Joe can do. Still photographers are exempt and I beleive there is a loophole for those producing aired television programs. I heard from a reliable source that the Forest Service has a special investigator working and has already gone through quite a few hunting videos and is working with the wildlife agencies compiling a database a tags drawn by videographers and those who have been seen in the videos. Should make for an interesting year.

 

[teterhorn]

I have been talking with Rhonda from the Salt Lake BLM and according to her this hunting video issue has prompted the BLM to try and change some of its policies to accomodate us videographers, at least in Utah. I recently completed my first video and was concerned about this law, after talking several times with the BLM I found that Rhonda has been assigned to come up with a solution that will please both sides. So far a percentage type plan is the proposed solution. Basically, you will pay for the small percentage of time that you are actually filming out of the entire time that you spend out in the field, of course this is a small percentage so the cost should not be outstanding. The BLM has actually kept in touch with me and let me know what is happening on this issue, so I feel that they do care about our point of view and that a reasonable solution will be found soon. The forest service is a different problem that will have to be dealt with seperately, but I think that if the BLM changes their policies we can prompt the forest service to try and change their policies also.

Jared Teter
www.teterhorn.com

 

[Founder]

So what do you guys think, is there a group out there that is pushing to end hunting videos?
IMO, someone has brought attention to the law. Not much was spoke of this stuff a year ago. I've heard that having the permit was required, but why all of the sudden is it something that our tax dollars are spent investigating. Heck, hunting videos aren't that big of a business!

Could it be an anti-hunting group? Or maybe even one of our own hoping to increase personal gain by shutting out "smalltime Joe videographer"?

Seems strange that out of the blue officials are cracking down on casual hunting videographers and guys who guide friends for gas money.

This stuff is why hunters need some political muscle on their side! If we had someone near the top on our side, these investigators would be assigned other duties and laws could be altered.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[bobcattrapper]

I think it seems kind of ridiculous, and its all because of sue happy people

 

[Founder]

Did the BLM tell you why all of the sudden they've decided to enforce the law?
It's been this way for a while hasn't it? Why is it a big deal now?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[fin little]

Wouldnt you think, if there are laws we need to adhere to , the agencies involved would be aware? If I meet with the blm office in charge of the land I use, and they say I'm ok without a permit, I should be ok? Right? Buckspy, how would the F.S. prosecute a law were a permit is required if the agencies involved dont even understand. It took a week for the local blm to decide I didnt need a filming permit. Ah never mind , red tape in action.

 

[conch]

I doubt a small potato filming for personal entertainment or even passing off a fifteen-second clip to some professional group has much to worry about. On the other hand, if I were selling numerous wildlife/hunting videos on the open market, advertising as a business, I might consider jumping the necessary hoops.
I'm a hobby photographic buff. I'm not going to sweat having a permit for now. I think ?big brother? will have to knock on the pros doors first.
Why is this becoming an issue now? Good question!

 

[WARBIRDUM]

That will make the footage I have have to offer to the pros alot more expensive if I have to buy a permit. This law is b.s. and there will be so many ways around this that I would not worry to much about it. I think this will be for the guys making a big profit off the dvds someone always wants to make money off anyone making money. By the way start posting guys names that have ever been busted if you know of any. FILMING WILDLIFE WITHOUT A LICENSE AND I GUESS THEY WILL MAKE US DRAW A LICENSE JUST TO FILM NEXT ALSO. GIVE ME A BREAK.

 

[Hornseeker]

Yeah that is a good question, why is this an issue all the sudden?

 

[conch]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-04 AT 11:07AM (MST)[p]Just my assumption, but maybe some of the ?heavy hitters? are feeling a little bit threatened by all the technological advancements in digital video cameras.
In all reality, these days, for not a whole lot of money, anybody with the time and desire can be a wildlife videographer. Easily operated inexpensive equipment is readily available to the general public. I think as time goes by and less actual hunting opportunity is available to the little guy, video cameras in the woods will become the newest form of outdoors entertainment. For me, this activity has already replaced most of the limited amounts of hunting that I once enjoyed. In a lot of ways I like shooting video better than a true hunt. For the most part, I go anywhere I want to, when I want to, on any coveted deer/elk unit that I desire. And when I'm finished shooting, there's no mess to clean up.
Additionally, I take my secured footage home and get to play for hours on the home computer, editing, viewing, and sharing the ?trophy? with my friends.
Currently, from all that I have been able to determine, through a fairly extensive search, hobby photographers/videographers are not required to have any permits to participate in leisure activities. However, commercial enterprises would likely be wise to obtain the correct permits from each government agency adversely effected. In other words, any place that filming takes place on public lands with an intent to sell a product/video to the public, apparently does necessitate a pre purchased license. This includes a permit from every government agency jurisdiction (i.e., forest service, blm) for all public lands exploited. The permit process appears exhausting and very expensive, including necessary liability insurance. Mossbacks? friendly reminder appears to be just a fair warning, but I highly recommend you get the facts for yourself, before jumping to conclusions.

 

[mo]

How will this affect all the people running around videoing for the so called finders fee?Hell maybe this is a good thing.lol

 

[conch]

This is a can of worms? better left unopened. It could be a real ball of wax for anyone trying to make a living selling wildlife videos. Video gurus would be better off not drawing attention to this subject matter. In my opinion.