Spike Regulations?

[Silentstalker]

Hey everybody. I am posting a picture of a baby bull I saw this year. He is a spikex4. In this particular area I saw 3 bulls this year that would qualify as spikes under the current law. One is a giant 6x1 350+ on his good side. I have watched this bull since he was small. He has not changed except for getting bigger with more mass on the freakish side. The other is a small 5x1 2 1/2 year old bull. The other is this bull. He has 4 horns growing out of his pedicle on the one side.

My question to you is what should we do with these bulls? Do we have a management type hunt, Do we shoot them as spikes, or do we do nothing and let them perpetuate the problem by breeding? The big 6x1 was running a large group of cows and I have no doubt he was breeding them. What do you guy's think?

I have another picture of a bull with these characteristics that I will try to post too. I do not intend for this to be a pissing match, I would like thoughtful input on this subject. Is it even a problem?

 

[Silentstalker]

Here is another bull I got in an e-mail. This bull was tagged by a LE hunter a few years ago. I do not know the hunter but use this for the discussion.

 

[Rammu]

the bull pictured above? Id take it! The 1by6 your talking about? Hopefully it dies real soon of cancer or something..

 

[slamdunk]

These bulls are legal by definition according to the proclomation. (even though i don't wholeheartedly agree)
They have also adopted the "management bull" hunt on a few units. These are the types of bulls they had in mind when they put that law into affect.
Like someone mentioned in a similar post last week, there are very few of these weird genetic freak bulls, so it's not going to hurt or change anything to whack one in a spike only area.

So.....shoot away my friend!





Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[proutdoors]

Chad, the problem with viewing bulls like this as 'management' bulls is that according to many studies, 85% of all abnormal antler growth like the ones you mentioned are due to injuries. Some are permanent where the skull has been damaged, others are a one year 'problem' then the animal will grow 'normal' antlers the followong year. That means only 15% are genetic, and there is NO way to remove a certain genetic trait from a free-ranging herd. The cows carry the same genetic make-up. The picture of the two kids with the bull shows a bull that has suffered injury, not a 'bad gene' bull.

PRO

 

[Silentstalker]

I just find it odd to see 3 bulls in the same drainage with these traits. I agree about the genetics, you can't shoot out the genetics. That kind of cuts the legs out from under the "management hunt". I suppose I can just look forward to shooting a few goofy spikes in the future! I can dream right!?

 

[slamdunk]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-07 AT 01:05PM (MST)[p]Deseret L&L has quite a few of these running around up there (1x6). We DO have a management hunt up there, but noone wants these ugly buggers, so noone shoots them.

Bad thing about a mngmnt hunt is you'll never kill the gene....all the cows look just a like!!
Unless you can find one with a googely eye or five legs or something???




Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[Silentstalker]

How about I come up and get rid of a few of those on Deseret!! A very unique trophy for sure!

 

[slamdunk]

Hook up the hunt SS, and we'll go find ya one!!





Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[nickman]

Well.........thank you Pro.

It cracks me up that so many so called "outdoorsmen" simply fail to grasp the fact that antlers are just bone and as such, can become cracked, broken or knocked completely off during the "velvet" period.

Just because there is an issue this year, there is no guarantee that it will occur again, following the annual shed.

Depending on the actual area of damage, like into the skull itself, it could become a permanent issue.....but genetics are NOT necessarally involved.

In Asia, where some cultures still use reindeer, they actually tie the new antlers close together so that they grow higher instead of wider.....makes the rack narrower and the animal is easier to manage.

I am waiting for some whitetail "farmer" to figure out how to spread a rack....like weights on the longest points as they grow......

 

[Packout]

SS- Would the young bull in your picture be considered a spike? It looks like he forks on the long antler and does not have a spike longer than his ears on the other side. Call me crazy, but should we even worry about the few mature bulls that qualify as spikes? I guess I just don't see the need to implement any real changes. How many mature bulls like this are harvested every year? 5, 10, 20? To me it is a non-issue. I say congrats to any hunter who buys his 15% success rate spike tag and is lucky enough to shoot a 1 in 500 mature bull which qualifies under this rule. Interesting topic though.

-------------------------
www.sagebasin.com
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[257Tony]

I don't think there is enough of these Bulls around for it to even be an issue. I mean how often do you actually see or hear of one being harvested in a spike only unit? I bet its a whole lot less common that dummazzes shooting a 6x6 and leaving it. If its legal to shoot according to the regs, shoot the damn thing!!!

 

[Silentstalker]

I posted this in answer to a different thread where this was being debated. I personally have NO problem with shooting these bulls. I beleive that there are not nearly enough of them to worry about. I thought it might be interesting to see what others thought or how often they see them. I personally understand how antlers grow each year and can be damaged. I also happen to KNOW that the 1x4 was not damaged as I watched him for more than an hour under 20 yards. I also KNOW that the 1x6 is not just a 1 year thing. He has been that way for at least 3 years.

As for the 1x4. He is indeed a spike on the one side. It is just a goofy picture with the branches etc. Even if he was branched on the 1 side, he is only a spike on the 4 point side because he does not branch above the ears. He has 4 very short main beams!

Anyways, I like most of you beleive this is a non issue. I hope to get one of these bulls next year. That is if they made it past the rifle/muzzy hunts!

 

[dgwoody]

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-07
>AT 01:05?PM (MST)
>
>Deseret L&L has quite a few
>of these running around up
>there (1x6). We DO have
>a management hunt up there,
>but noone wants these ugly
>buggers, so noone shoots them.
>
>
>Bad thing about a mngmnt hunt
>is you'll never kill the
>gene....all the cows look just
>a like!!
>Unless you can find one with
>a googely eye or five
>legs or something???

My cousin killed one up there two years ago. It was a 2x6 that he killed with a management tag. The spike on the right side was 43 inches long. He had a G1 on the same side that was 18." When we doubled the score from the good side, he would have gone 367 and some change. He was a six year old bull with good genes, and a broken pedistal. He was killed in mid october, after the rut. I'm sure we probably saw some of his kids up there this year. Like Pro said, most of the time its a good bull with an injury. Its nice to see a productive post now and then, way to go boys.

 

[slamdunk]

Yes pro is right about injured pedicles, no doubt that happens.

But DL&L definately has this gene, the one your cousin killed was not one of the ones i'm talking about.

These are true 1x6, but the "1" side is usually just a big club and goes downward.

Them dudes aren't too pretty.

They usually end up culling them out on the winter range.






Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[bingo]

I have taken a few bull Elk, including 2 small 6 points (nothing huge yet) but one of my favorite Elk taken was a 1x2 with a club on the '1' side. I will try to post a picture. I think the current rule is correct and any bull with a single tine on one side is good to qualify as a spike harvest even if the other side was the making of a 400 class bull. Whether it is genetic or injury dosent really matter. Like so many have said, it is rare to come across this, so it isnt going to affect the population or change the age objective in any area if a bull like this is taken on occasion. If anything, it gives the spike hunters something to dream about. In comparison, it would be kinda like catching one of the money tag fish out of Powell.

 

[Silentstalker]

Do any of you guy's have pictures of the bulls mentioned? I would love to see them!

 

[dgwoody]

Your right, slam. We have had a few up there, two years ago, we also had a "stag" up there that stayed in the velvet all year. I didn't see him this year, but he was a good bull a few years ago. They were saying he wasn't a very old bull, but he got his jewels cought in a fence or something. I think I could handle the pedistal injury, but the jewels, ouch. I would run out in front of a car in weber canyon and just get it over with. We had a buck deer up there this year that had five on one side and three on the other. His three point side had a huge club where the g3 and the mainbeam normally split off. He is a cool buck as well.