Northern Utah RAC Report

[SMELLYBUCK]

Went to the meeting last night. 1st time I've ever attended. There were less than 100 people. It lasted 3.5 hours. The majority of the meeting was spent discussing proposed changes to Limited Entry Elk. There was a report at the beginning that showed there are 3 buck hunters to every buck (I hope I heard that wrong, please correct me if I did.) That seems about right if there are 280,000 deer in Utah and 12% bucks. That would be 33,600. The state gives out about 100,000 tags. It's amazing we have a 25% success rate. The DWR also would really like freedom from the legislature to be able to change the dates on the rifle deer hunt. They currently have the authority to change all hunt dates except that one - it must start on the saturday closest to Oct 20. There was a lot of momentum in the room for us to contact our legislature regarding the issue. I'm afraid if the rifle dates are changed the traditional family deer hunt will officially die as the division starts to bounce it around.

My main concern with the meeting is that the majority of time was focused on the glamerous topics of big limited entry elk, yet this affects only a small percentage of big game hunters for a small percentage of their hunting life. There was little focus on what they are doing to increase the deer heard. The family rifle deer hunt has been the backbone of hunting for a couple of generations and now. It is the reason many of us enjoy hunting today as adults. If we neglect the overall deer heard by focusing on Limited Entry, Premium, & CWMU hunts; we will see a decrease in hunter interest. A decrease in hunters may result in a loss of public support for hunting, and all hunters alike may lose out in the end.

As I have watched this board it seems a lot of you would like to see a stronger deer heard. The state currently wants to "minimize harvest while maintaining opportunity" (pg 10 of the statewide mule deer management plan.) To me this means they find low success rates acceptable and desirable. I encourage you deer hunters to be less apathetic. Let your voice be heard to the DWR. Tell them to make the general hunt the #1 priority and limited entry 2nd.

 

[190MuleyHunter]

First of all, thank you for posting about the meeting. I tried to attend this meeting Wed. on its original time and found a note on the door about the time change. I wasn't able to go last night.

>"My main concern with the meeting is that the majority of time was >focused on the glamerous topics of big limited entry elk, yet this >affects only a small percentage of big game hunters for a small >percentage of their hunting life. There was little focus on what >they are doing to increase the deer heard. "

Not surprised that this happened but I couldn't agree with you more. Well said. Too much focus is given to the smallest opportunity with the biggest cash cow.

I have to admit I have not been part of the elk hunting scene mostly because I grew up hunting muleys. However, I do plan to hunt elk and want to have great opportunities to do so. I think they taste better anyway. I've logistically haven never had the means to hunt them. Until I can statisfy my grown passion to bag a 190 class muley, The elk hunt will wait.

The lack of deer herd numbers and maturity of bucks needs to be the top priority for DWR! If they are waiting to act when the levels become embaracing and disgracful, they need to wait no longer.

>"I encourage you deer hunters to be less apathetic. Let your >voice be heard to the DWR. Tell them to make the general hunt >the #1 priority and limited entry 2nd."

Any suggestions on the best way to make this happen?

 

[Foreman4x4]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-04 AT 03:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-04 AT 03:52?PM (MST)

What's their rationale for wanting to move the rifle hunt?

It amazes me that more people don't ##### about them moving the muzzleleoader deer hunt from November to September. I understand there are lots of guys who like the early hunt because of the weather, etc., which is fine and dandy, but the original reasoning for moving the hunt was because the DWR claimed too many big bucks were being killed.

Sure there might have been a few more mature bucks killed then, but the overall numbers of deer killed were nothing like they are today. Not sure how accurate the figures were that were posted in the SL Tribune a day or two ago, but the ML showed the highest success rate.

I used to be able to go the whole 9 day hunt and see maybe one or two other hunters, but now it's as bad, or maybe even worse, than the rifle hunt.

I agree with the previous post. They start dickin with the traditional dates and I'll bet a lot of people give it up for good, which is a shame. I already know a lot of guys who quit hunting, especially deer, when the State went to a lottery system for all permits. I actually like the fact we apply in January because I usually have a little money stuck away, but a lot of guys simply have other things on their minds that time of year and don't remember to apply until it's too late. Sure they're not dyed-in-the-wool hardcore hunters, but they were supporters of the sport, and many had been for generations.

I can just about guarantee what ever reasoning they have for wanting to move the dates isn't for the benefit of the hunter or the game, but some scheme to put money in their coffers.

I posted in another thread about the units within the State that have been limited to a five day hunt. Obviously the DWR has recognized some kind of problem with herd numbers, so why not shut the unit down completely. Afterall, I'd wager that most deer are going to be killed opening weekend. I'll tell ya why they don't shut them down completely, they'd loose too much revenue on license sales.

Another thing that gripes me is what they did to the elk herds on the Fishlake and South Manti Units. Whichever so called professional biologist(s) that came up with the numbers allowing people to buy a cow permit or two along with their spike elk tag a few years ago should be standing in the unemployment line. They've decimated the herds, yet they continue to give cow permits. Nothing will ever change as long as they continue to be money driven.

Off my soap box now.

 

[groundshrink]

Here, Here! Or is it HEAR,HEAR! Here's a couple more Ideas to bring the deer herd back -Quit listening to those who incorrectly assume that the cougar population is in any way threatened (what a joke) and put them back to a shoot on site policy! (When the Fishlake went to a quota system two years ago they filled the quota the first day!) Give extra bonus points for 'x' number of coyote ears! Mandate Castration for poachers caught on the winter range (killing our biggest and best bucks during the rut!) I know the winter range is suffering in some areas, but not locally if anything it has improved in the last 20 years or so. So much of it is completely void of deer or elk throught the winter! Too many predators (two legged and four)!

I'd like to see an education program that targeted rural High Schools boys that show them how long it takes to grow a trophy buck, how thrill killing doe and deer in general in the off seasons cripples the deer herd. A program that would bring this problem to light, and encourage their peers (that know it's going on) to turn them in!

 

[money4huntin]

I have all the same concerns as most of the Utah hunters around. I am also worried about overall numbers, buck to doe ratios, range conditions, and predator control. Hunting has been a family tradition for me for 15+ years. I don't want to see major changes that would disrupt that.......HOWEVER...I do have to say that the factors that the DWR face with these types of decisions must not be easy. The wildlife programs are based on funding that is received from revenue that we the consumer provides. Therefore, a hunting shut down would be impossible to survive through. If the herd numbers were to fall so low that we had to stop hunting for a few years, I would support it fully. I enjoy getting out every year, but I also enjoy the thrill of seeing animals. If there weren't any to see, 50% of the reason we go would be gone. I think we as hunters and sportsmen need to take a step back sometimes and realize that we are approaching or have long arrived at a time that requires more conservation on our part. We might have to start accepting the fact that making changes to conserve a limited resource might affect us in a negative manner at first, but will improve things in the long run. I attended a meeting last year when the topic covered was converting to a full draw system and going to 25 hunting units. Many were concerned that there entire hunting party would not draw and therefore split up the tradition. I am also concerned about that issue. However, there are two units in Northern Utah that are just bombarded with hunters, the Cache and the Box Elder. I have hunted both over the last 15 years and am quite frustrated at the number of hunters and the lower number of deer I have seen. If a change to 25 units would help that issue, then I would support it fully, even if it meant making a personal sacrifice to improve hunting in the future. The DWR may not always make the right decisions in our eyes, but I do trust in them that they are making educated decisions to try and improve things. I don't personally think they would make decisions to intentionally make things worse as that would affect the future revenue. I've rambled long enough. I would encourage all sportsmen alike to put aside our personal wants and needs temporarily to do what is right for the numbers to improve...if it ever came to that. There are so many factors like winter range loss and predator control that affect the numbers, and we may not be able to entirely control those things, but if we do our part, it can only help, even if just a little. If we had to make sacrifices and embraced that, we could all feel great about making things better for generations to come.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

I gathered the best way to make this happen is to send e-mails directly to Karpowitz and ask how issues like winter habitat improvement in the north and water hole creation in the south can become a big enough priority to get on the agenda. My friends in the dedicated hunter program tell me that a lot of the projects have nothing to do with habitat improvement. That is unacceptable. I understand weather will take its toll on herds periodically, but I also understand Utah has a lot more potential and 40 yrs of decline is a joke - especially when tags were sizeably cut 10 years ago. Nobody would care about limited entry if we could all take a nice buck home every two or three years.

Another way is to join with a group. Representatives of organizations get a lot more respect from the DWR than individuals (& rightfully so.)

Send some e-mails. Maybe something more than excuses will come of it.

(Good luck with your 190 ambition. I've also kept the elk hunt to a minimum for the same reason. I occasionally get a cow, but I haven't the nerve to compete with all the well equiped bull hunters. I doubt there is room for me in the 10% success rate. (More than enough meat on a cow for my family & I'm 3/3 with them)