Utah Muley/Elk relationship Q & A

[B_F_E]

Q. What do these units have in common ?
Henry Mt., Fishlake, 2 Bears, Vernon, Ensign.

Q. Same Question ?
Monroe, Paunsigaunt, Boulder, Pavant.

A. The # of mule deer are declining or increasing in a reverse relationship to the # of Elk.

Q. big question Why ? ........ don't tell me chute planes.

Also call B.S. if you disagree with any of my unit assessments

 

[bobcatbess]

B_F_E_

EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ATV'S (AIRIEL TERRAIN VEHICLES)HAVE TAKEN THERE TOLL ON THE TROPHY MULE DEER!!!

YOU NEED TO HAVE AN UP CLOSE & PERSONAL TALK WITH THE DWR!!!

DEER NUMBERS ARE UP THIS YEAR,YOU CAN'T PROVE IT TO ME THOUGH!!!

DO YOU BELIEVE ME??? OR DO YOU BELIEVE THE DWR???

GO AHEAD AND ANSWER THE QUESTION,YOU WON'T HURT MY FEELINGS!!!

THERE ARE OTHER UNITS SUFFERING ALSO FROM THE SAME SYNDROME!!!

HERE'S A LITTLE OF MY THEORY!!!

MULE DEER USED TO BE HUNTED FOR 7-10 DAYS,AS TIME WENT ON THERE BECAME MORE HUNTS,ARCHERY,MUZZLELOADER,FLIPPER,TOMAHAWKS,ETC.,THEY DECIDED TO PLANT STINKY ELK,MORE HUNTS,MORE HUNTING PRESSURE,THEY DECIDED TO LET 14 YEAR OLDS HUNT,MORE HUNTING PRESSURE,THIS MEANT 14,15,16 YEAR OLD HUNTERS ALL IN ONE YEAR,A PRETTY GOOD HIT,COW ELK HUNTS AND MORE COW ELK HUNTS,SOME THROUGH JANUARY,MORE PRESSURE ON THE DEER HERDS,LETS DO A MUZZLE LOADER ELK HUNT DURING THE RUT OF THE DEER,MORE PRESSURE ON THE DEER HERD WHEN THEY NEED A MORE RELAXED TIME,EVERY AREA I'VE SEEN ELK BROUGHT IN THE DEER HAVE WENT TO HELL,THERE ARE ALOT MORE REASONS THAN I MENTIONED BUT DO THE MATH AND ADD IT UP,THERE ARE CONTINUOUS AND OVERLAPPED HUNTS THAT START IN MID-AUGUST AND THEY RUN THEM DAMN COW ELK HUNTS INTO JANUARY,THIS DOESN'T DO ANY DEER HERD ANY GOOD,DO YOU REMEMBER 'THE DECLINE OF TROPHY MULE DEER'???

DON'T GET ME STARTED,I'D LOTS RATHER HARVEST A TROPHY MULE DEER THAN A STINKY ELK,BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HUNT TROPHY ELK BEFORE THE DWR WORKS THE LE UNITS OVER,KNOW WHAT I MEAN???

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF WE COULD ADD A FEW MORE HUNTS IN SOMEWHERE???THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ENOUGH OF THEM!!!

 

[mickeyelk]

I posed the same question to Nevada DOW about elk populations increasing at the expense of the mule deer. I was making reference to Nevada area 101-108 where NDOW wants to eliminate the small elk herd that is there thru hunting means. I was wondering way there weren't trying to introduce more elk to the area. In response, a biologist sent me a written report of findings of a study that was done over a period of time that it stated that the elk have such a small effect over deer management. Also, in concern to area 101, they want to keep this area free of elk and only have a deer herd their. What they said and what they were imposing didn't sound the same. Almost makes as much scense as Arizona's study area for deer. Where deer are enclosed in a study area, with the exact same habitat and drought conditions, and they faired much better as there populations increased inside the enclosure and the deer outside the enclosure decreased. Only difference between the two was, PREDATORS. They say we don't have a predator problem. Double talk? I believe the deer herds would be much better with predator control. Start paying hunters for coyotes and lions control. Give them $20 for each coyote they bring in. I believe our deer herd would increase almost imediately. I know our antelope herd would double over night. My 2cents.

 

[groundshrink]

I agree with both you guys above. I know I read a Trophy Hunter article a WHILE back about the Jicarilla having at the same time, the only known "increasing" Elk and Deer herds. They attributed that fact to the aggressive predator control the resevration employs. Once in a while I get my Dad going on this deer hunt stuff, and his response is much the same as Bobcat's They used to be hunted for two weekends (and in between) and then they were left alone. Nobody want's to give an inch on how long they can hunt I know, but think about it. The winter range around here is pounded during the deer rut. Roads that were snowed in and impassible till spring thaw are rotinely traveled. Where you'd never see a vehicle track, it's now packed. I attribute that to the horn craze, most want to see a big buck, sadly some just want the big buck and don't care about the season dates! I know of two recent poaching cases locally here in Utah that could have had an impact/example to help stop poaching, but turned into mere slaps on hands and more or less a joke. Multiple animals involved, and an un willingness to take it serious on the part of law enforcement, let the perps off ( caught red handed) with next to or nothing. One claimed he wasn't read his rights ( he already knew them off by heart), one posted bail was out of jail and dumped his house full of evidence before the DWR got back to serve thier warrant! So please add poaching to the added pressure and increase in predators -for me at least the elk thing is minimal -sure they run the deer off, but there is a lot of country up there.

 

[robertj]

B_F_E

When and where have you ever seen any elk on the Vernon unit?

PM me if you prefer.

 

[couesbitten]

robertj,
There are indeed elk in the Vernon unit. A good friend of mine who lives in Eureka, and knows that unit like the back of his hand has seen a good number of elk in that area. He and a friend archery hunted that area hard last season, and his friend ended up harvesting a 350-plus bull.
Scott/couesbitten

 

[robertj]

couesbitten

I would appreciate a point in the right direction. I have scouted up Harker Canyon, Oak Canyon and Bennion Creek with no success. I have heard of elk on Maple Mtn. just east of Cherry Creek.
Was he on the east Tintics close to Eureka or the West Tintics over south of Vernon.
A general idea of the area would be greatly appreciated/

Thanks
Robert

 

[B_F_E]

Robertj, cannot back it up that I have seen any elk on the Vernon, I was generalizing that in the areas where muleys are on the rebound, the elk are scarce or non-existent, the elk have reproduced like cockroaches, around here & I'm getting tired of the insidious giant bugling sheep, especially when it comes at the exspence of muleys. I think I'm going to get an archery tag & gut shoot about 50 of them, (note; all you ethical zealots ready to pounce that was a joke) I know the DWR, can get more $$ by selling both deer & elk tags, on the same areas where before they could only cash in with deer tags, so it makes since that the DWR is not going to acknowlege they need to manage for one or the other, since that would cost them mucho dinero, but they are already secretly managing certain herds that way now. I fear that by pushing the envelope as they are, if we happen to get a bad winter kill we may be kissing some of our deer herds good buy, & after these deer herds are goners some of the over populated elk herds may fallow, in turn saving me 50 arrows :'(

 

[five_point_buck]

Last year on the closing night of the season I saw something like I've never seen before. I was sitting on a flat where a good last minute buck had been hanging out. All of a sudden 15 elk (mostly cows and spikes) cam blowing into the field and literally ran off the 10 deer in the field. They made it a point to run them down and push them off. I figured that the youth of the elk were just being playfull as they froliced and bucked around. Either way, my season ended as the deer never looked back and the elk eventually settled down and fed.

Has anyone ever seen such a thing? Is this a normal reaction during competition for feeding rights?


?America is a great country, the harder you work the luckier you get.?

five_point_buck
AKA Larry Pasero Jr.

 

[robertj]

B_F_E

I agree with you, on the Oquirhh Mtns. above Tooele (which I've hunted for 35 years) there used to be a good deer herd with the only elk being on the northern half of the range. About 15 years ago the sheep ranchers (one of them was my grandfather) quit ranging sheep on the mountain. In the last several years I've seen herds of 50+ elk with over 50% bulls where I hunt and never used to see a single elk. Now I'm lucky to encounter more than 2-3 bucks where I used to see 10-12.
And of course this is a LE elk unit and the DWR issues 14 tags during the draw.
Go figure!!