The Future of Game Management

[misner5]

I'm concerned our herds in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming (maybe even Utah, Colorado, Oregon) are in for severe decline due to wolf predation and our inabilities to manage the predator. It doesn't take much research to see if the wolf is not managed, the elk, deer, goats and sheep will decline. The question is how much will they decline. To the extent hunting will not be allowed? Very possible and maybe very likely.

Now to the main point! What are we as hunters going to do about it? Are we going to wait until history reveals our inactiveness allowed hunting to become extinct in wolf populated areas?

The pro wolfers are hard at it to ensure wolves never become delisted from endangered. Click on the link. There are countless petitions from them to the feds demanding wolves stay on the endangered species list. I didn't find any pro wolf management petitions. Hopefully there are some out there.

I say we need to get a quality petition put together to get wolf management started now. If anyone has experience in this realm please get it going and let me know what I can do to help. It appears that petitions need to be done correctly or they will get thrown out.

I'm afraid we're going to set idly by until it's too late. I'm one man who loves hunting. I'm not for wiping the wolf out although I wish they'd never been reintroduced. At this point I'll be happy if we're managing them.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=petition&as_q=wolf&btnG=Search within results

 

[TFinalshot]

No one can argue with you that wolves eat deer and logically more wolves means increased demand for deer, or for that matter elk, rabbits, sheep, goats, and few cattle now and then. In fact, I'll add that not only do wolves eat deer but so to do cats, feral dogs, bears and coyotes occasionally, cars, trucks and humans. More to the point, encroachment into wild places where deer HAVE TO LIVE, and the overall increased demands on deer all have an important place in the discussion. We all must agree that there are limits on the number of deer and the demands for those deer are increasing, especially for mature mule deer bucks.

I live in an area where the deer numbers, according to the state wildlife agents, are "record" high, including bucks. The deer herds are doing well and we have all the major predators, including wolves.

Let me add some fuel to your debate. Deer also act different in area?s were they are hunted by predators year round. They are ?smarter?. They rarely get lazy and let down their guard ? even during the off season. They act as though they are hunted all the time. For guys that don't like to hunt real hard this too would be a reason to mechanically limit predator numbers. But, to limit predators so that we have deer that are easier to hunt would be a joke.

In areas where deer are few this year there are no wolves or bears and only a few cats. Why are the numbers down? Lots of snow last winter. This year there are fewer deer and I would bet, there will be fewer cats this winter too.

You?re limiting the complexity of the issues by targeting only wolves. Now, wolves eat deer. But there are too many other factors that contribute to deer numbers, up or down, in any one year and over a normal 10 year cycle. For example, a major winter migration route for mule deer in Wyoming has been developed into a housing project. That will kill that deer heard with or without wolves. Again, I understand that wolves eat deer.

You should study the history of the Kibab in Arizona.

Things have changed over the past 50 years since wildlife officials wrecked the Kibab, but the lesson is still real. The systems are very complex. Moreover,

I for one believe that we can have all the predators, including humans, if we limit our take, give the deer enough room to have a chance to survive and live to be old enough to become "trophy" deer, and enough seclusion to breed and pass a little of their genetic material to a doe. Without good habitat you won't have good deer numbers with, or without wolves.

In the final analysis, we must manage first, our demand for those deer while we provide them with adequate habitat to survive.

Finalshot

 

[dakotakid]

Very well thought out response TFS.


Now lets go wolf huntin

Mike

 

[mtmiller]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Wolf management is occurring and has been occurring. Instead of putting a petition together, why don't you do some research and use science to promote your ideas.

Here is a start-

http://fwp.state.mt.us/wildthings/wolf/finalwolfeis.html

 

[j0hnj0hn]

It's not just the wolves everyone. Cougars take a fair share of deer as well. But the number one factor for the declining mule deer herds are people. Yes people. You and me people. In utah look at the east bench and watch those house continue to climb up the hill. Every time a new sub division gets put up there that is more winter range taken from the deer. We continue to encroach on their winter range, removing their winter feed and they die. It is that simple. Look at the number of roads going into the back country. These roads give hunters access to places previously accessed by a few. More vehicles in these areas also increase the number of auto accidents. More deer are killed every year in auto accidents than by predation and hunting. Take away the winter range, increase the number of people in the back country and it adds up to less deer. We have no problem feeding elk in Utah but until recently there was no deer feeding program, and in fact you could get in trouble for feeding the deer. Since we have taken the deer winter ranges over, I believe we have more responsibility to assist the deer through the hard winters than controlling the wolves. We help the deer through the winters, then there is bound to be more deer for everyone and preditors. I think we should be focusing our attention to this end first before crying wolf

 

[wideone]

Great post TFinalShot..

I guess you could call me pro-wolf, because I'm pro-healthy ecosystems, and I feel that this predator helps accomplish that. I keep hearing how wolves have "killed 'em all," then my buddies and I head to the hills in Wyoming, in the heart of wolf country, where we actually have seen wolves, and we end up bagging great bulls. Yes, the bulls behavior has changed, but it just makes you think a little harder, and in the end it makes for a more satisfying hunt.
Wolf Management plans are in place in Montana and Idaho, but the Government is still waiting for Wyoming to come up with an acceptable plan. There is talk to go ahead and give management authority to the state of Montana and Idaho, in the case that Wyoming ends up dragging this out.

 

[kilbuc]

Currently there are 2 lawsuits filed against the US F&W/L Service over the delisting of wolves in Wyoming. Suits are based on the fact that NEPA and the ESA have not been followed by the feds. Petitions are nice but the courts will decide.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"