Points req. for future hunts

BigPig

Very Active Member
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I'm gonna really start concentrating on gathering points for some good hunts in the future. I'm mostly interested in AZ, UT and CO since I already have at least one point in these states. On average how many points does it take to draw rifle muley hunts for units like the:

Book Cliffs
Paunsaugunt
Kaibab
AZ Strip
Uncompagre Plateau

Any other public land units in these states I should consider?
 
Well I think I have 9 or 10 for the Pauns. and I can,t seem to get drawn so I hope this helps.....Devlin
 
DallanC,

I just looked at the draw odds for the Bookcliffs this year that the DWR has put out. According to the report everyone with more then 6 points got a tag (unit #10-014) and most of the applicats with 5 points got a tag. Ether the DWR is not telling us the truth or you put in for a unit other than the Bookcliffs.

400bull
 
In Colorado if you have no points as of now it will probably take you about 10 points or more to draw the west side of the Uncompahgre, unit 61, and about 4 or 5 to draw east, unit 62. Both units don't require that many now but with more and more people applying each year the points required are going to go up one a year or one every other year. Good luck.
 
Points are worthless in AZ. I have almost 10 for elk and antelope and have not been drawn while friends of mine have had 2-3 tags in the last few years. For AZ it is just luck. You could have zero or 15, but it wont help.
 
I put in for BookCliffs South. The one with the hunt thats going on THIS week... makes me CRY to see all the snow and know it woulda been a once in a lifetime hunt this year. Ah well.


-DallanC
 
DallenC,

I hate to rub salt in an open wound. You still should have drawn with that many points. The south unit only had one person with 8 points apply and he had the most points for that unit.

400bull
 
Hmmm if true that REALLY pisses me off. I havent seen the draw odds so perhaps I need to check into this a bit more and ask them WTF is going on.


-DallanC
 
I'm not much help on points knowledge but I put in for the Pauns with 6 points and not yet, hopefully soon. Help me here though, in Arizona don't you have to actually buy a tag to get your point? $100 plus at 15 years is a little money. Maybe I am wrong.

3DM

Nothing Fancy to Read Here
 
In AZ there are two ways to get a point. You have the option of buying a point for the price of the tag without having an opportunity of being put into the drawing. Otherwise, you automatically recieve one point for each year you apply and DO NOT draw a tag. Once the tag is drawn, your points go to 0 (or 1 if you have the hunter ed point).
 
My buddy drew deer in Arizona, Kaibab Northside late 13B. I think he had one or two points and there were over 7000 applicants so you just never know.
 
The draw system in Colo is totally different than those in UT, AZ, and other states. Unless Colo changes their pref pt system, the guys with the highest pref pts are the only ones that have a chance of drawing tags. UT is based on a bonus pt system where your name is put in the hat as many times as you've applied and not drawn. You may want to get out your regs and do some research for each state to figure out a strategy!

There are good and bad features to each draw system. With Colos system you can somewhat predict which year you will draw while in UT you have no idea. The bad thing about Colos system is that the pref pts it takes to draw some of the more popular units goes up every year so it may take a lifetime to draw some of these tags.
 
Here is a link to the Bonus Point PDF file that is on the WDR webpage. You can look up all the units in Utah to see how many points it will take to draw a tag. Below is the Bookcliffs, South Unit 10-015

Points Applicants Bonus permits Regular permits
11 0 0 0
10 0 0 0
9 0 0 0
8 1 1 0
7 9 6 0
6 10 2 0
5 33 0 0
4 39 0 2
3 61 0 1
2 68 0 4
1 76 0 2
0 69 0 0

400bull
 
Dallan,

I would be pissed off! You stated you put in with 9 or 8 points and 400 bull shows you should have drawn. I know one thing, I would be on their doorstep 30 minutes ago demanding answers. Good grief after putting in and building points, the rotten buggers had ought to issue you a tag when your turn comes. I am mad and I am not even you.

I would print the draw odds. I would show them my cancelled check and or credit card application fee. I would provide them the bottom of my application showing my points and demand answers. You should have no problem getting to the bottom of this.

Let us know what you find.
 
To SREMIM

Stil, don't you have to buy the big game license to get a point and apply. I have spoken with AZ and that is way I understood it. As an out of stater I wouldn't want to buy anything unless I drew a tag.
 
OK, I just called AZ F&G and yes you have to buy a license every year you DON'T draw and want a bonus point. Out of state is $113.50 and most units, currently you need about 10-13 points to even think about it so $113.50 x 10 = $1,135.00 before you can even be considered.

3DM
 
3DMan,
Not always so, my bud just drew the most sought after tag in AZ and maybe the nation... with 2 points. Extremely low odds you bet, but not impossible.

Greg
 
DallenC,

I was hoping to hear that you had called up the DWR and opened a can of whopp-a$$ on then. See thing that I have not heard from you yet can you give us an update on your bonus points. Did the DWR screw things up or did you accidently put in for the wrong unit?

Please keep us update. I think that all of us would like to know what happened with your bonus points so we can keep an eye out on ours.

400bull
 
No doubt! It's hard to believe, isn't it?
Just goes to show, careful what hunt you put in for, you just might get it.

Greg
 
Greg,

That is awesome that your friend drew. It is true that some are lucky. I am not ususally a lucky person and kind-of look at it like I will have to wait until my odds are good. I have not been able to spare the xtra cash for AZ and this is the year I was going to be able to start earning points. I forgot to say that the AZ F&G lady also said something like,"It is ALL going to change next year with the type of lawsuits we've had". So I guess we will wait and see. Hopefully AZ and Nev. will get the USO lawsuit figured out and Utah will follow suit and be safe. The lady at AZ F&G also said, "We may not even be able have a draw next year because of the lawsuit".

3DM
 
What happened Dallan? What did the F&G have to say?

You know this stuff is concerning. I have lots of elk points and surely the wait is bad enough, let alone an apparant flaw in the system.

I am real curious as to how they remedy such a problem.

I looked at the odds sheets on elk a few years back, there were a few guys with one more point than possible. I believe six was max and these few had seven. I inquired to how such a thing was possible. I was told because of application errors on a few, they were awarded one extra point. I was also told this would NEVER happen again. The result was these few with the point structure, got the elk tag of choice.

That is why I wonder how they propose to fix your error.
 
If thats right about 1100 bucks+ before a non resident can get a deer tag in AZ I personally think thats ridiculous. Paying for a bonus point is exactly what USO was doing in a way. They are making the game much more expensive for us all in the end. I dont' mind paying for reasonable tags but to have to pay those amounts to just have a chance at a tag is not right. Maybe I just dont' understand it clearly though.

I do assume you could keep putting in forever with zero points and since the ones with points get chosen, those without would theoretically never have a chance at a tag.

Jeff
 
I havent done sh#t yet with it. I'm so freaking swamped at work I dont have time to think about anything else atm. I'll try to dig up my "reciept" from the draw showing my points this weekend then go from there.

I really need a new job. Anyone hiring computer programmers up in MT or WY these days? LoL


-DallanC
 
Here's how it works guys. In Utah for Bucks, Bulls, and Once-in-a-lifetime permits there is a Bonus Point system. For each point your name is entered into the draw an additional time. One half of Utah's limited permits are given to the applicants with the most bonus points the other half are awarded by random draw among the remaining applicants. This system began in Utah in 1993. Maximum points for 2004 is 11.
Arizona has a Bonus Point system where all applicants who purchase a a hunting liscense($113.50 for non-residents), do not request a refund, and fail to draw, recieve a bonus point each year per species applied for. Ten percent of the draw permits are reserved for a special drawing for maximum bonus point holders. This system will change next year because of the USO lawsuit.
Colorado has a Preference Point system for deer, elk, and antelope where the applicant with the most points will recieve the permit with the exception that non-residents are limited to a maximum of 40% of limited liscenses for deer and elk.
So in Utah and Arizona it is possible to draw your first time, or not draw with maximum points. While in Colorado you will need to have the most points in the area you applied for to draw.
These systems can be very confusing, hope this somewhat helps clear up how they work.

Ken M.
 
As long as we are whining let's be sure to mention some other deals that are pi$$ poor as well. I have applied for over 5 years in Idaho and never drawn a tag, but it costs something like $128.50 per year to buy the license, and you DON"T EVEN GET A POINT. In Nevada, it costs more like $150 per year to get a point. And good old Wyoming does not yet even have points for deer, so you never know when you might draw. There's no perfect system, but at least Arizona nad Utah are doing something to reward those that continue to apply.
 

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