Story of Id F&G.........

[supersider34]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-04 AT 10:10PM (MST)[p]Here is something that will make all hunters sick..
This is posted here because it is mule deer related.
Start it off with this. You spend money to win a raffle for a super tag and spend money to travel out to Idaho to hunt after winning a mule deer tag. Only to take a huge buck of a lifetime and have a envious little pr@#$ call you in for poaching and get a Federal Officer show up at your house to confiscate the horns and have 8 F&G cops show up at your Taxidermist to take the hide that you where planning on having a full body mount done. ALL on anonymous phone call.
That 218 big buck I posted last month this happened to that buck and hunter. What does this say about Idaho Fish & Game? Just a phone call. Some little piece of sh@# that sits in a little hole and was mad his little peon of a buck was no match for this true monster of a buck. Got to pout because there are true hunters out there that scout and will put there good friend on monster bucks instead of whining because they cant get off there 4 wheelers or out of there trucks to find the big ones of there dreams.
The other thing that gets me is this. They went into my friends place of business which is his livelyhood and makes a new customer sit in there truck till they have gone. The F&G officers did this. Made my friend lose business or potential business from rumors that will fly. The total disrespect from F&G and total unprofessional courtesy they did not show towards him. All over a phone call. I hear rumors fly on almost every big buck but there is no evidence just a phone call. It makes me worried to keep trying for big ones. Because if F&G can attack this then what happens if they go to someone that doesnt have the means to fight back. Meaning money. I feel the CAP program is good but to wait or not to act on a call or to have no other evidence than just saying whatever. There has to be a medium here and not someone that is envious or jealous of a buck. When will it stop when someone who hunt hard or just happens to be in the right place at the right time gets called in. F&G wants to make money off these tags and wants to make more but to go after a hunter that has spent alot of money for the SUPER TAG and spends money to come here and the money he spent while here. I would be a little nervous of coming to Idaho to hunt trophy animals.
But this irks every sense in me. I for one would bust someones jaws if they came out and told me they called any of these guys in. I would vouch for my friends Dad 100%. He has more knowledge than most people I know of mule deer in the units he goes into. But to make up stories is BS.
Sorry to go on but the F&G has showed me again very unprofessional and disrespectful towards what there job should be.

 

[huntercameron]

I understand what you are saying . Some jeolous hunter called in on him because he a got a buck of a lifetime . I hope you find out who called , and ripp him a new one .lol what buck is this supersider ? The hog typical you showed us a while a go that had big front forks ?

later , hunter cameron

 

[supersider34]

Yes just edited it and put that in there. The 218 buck...

 

[BOHNTR]

Was his business and home served with a search warrant? If so, there may be more than just an anonymous phone call, as the law requires more than that for the issuance of such a warrant. As for not allowing him to conduct business during the search, that's not uncommon for ANY law enforcement agency to follow if serving a search warrant. It is a definate inconvienence, but many times necessary to conduct the search quickly and thoroughly.

Hope everything works out for the best and the truth is found.

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[flea_bitten]

I agree with BOHNTR, unless they had a search warrant to come in and seize the buck they had no buisness being at his home, buiness etc. I worked with a cop in OR on a poaching case I was witness to. We recovered bullet casings, found the gut pile etc, knew where the guy lived, staked out his house and photographed him, but it was'n till about a week and half later before he had enough to secure a search warrant, once he did the deer was still hanging in his garage, meat spoiled, magpie crap all over the carcass etc....anyways guy got busted. I don't think on 1 phone call they would do what they did if they did they were wrong and if they seized property without a warrent I would say there in trouble.

 

[dakotakid]

I think its high time we get a rope and have a good ole fashion lynchin!

Mike

 

[browtine]

BOHNTR is right...cant obtain a search warrant with out probable cause.. They must have evidence of some type to sieze the property. I seriously doubt that any officer would sieze a big buck out of jealousy. An unlawful siezure just isnt worth the job, or the civil suit after. I hope you find out the entire story and let us know.

Later, Brandon

 

[HighDesert]

You guys are looking at it from the state point of view. He was searched by a federal Officer not a state officer and fed trumps state on rules and everything. They do not necessarily need a warrant at that on some federal charges. If i am not mistaken a tip call on an anonymous B&C buck will get the feds up in arms real fast as that is a possible 15k dollar fine and the USFWS guys really like those new lacey act violations.
This is what i saw happen to a friends Hart Mountain buck here in Oregon. Someone said he shot it with a rifle during the Muzzleloader season and he had everything confinscated over that and it was like 2 days after he got home needless to say the allegations were false but thank god he still had the Hide and the carcass. This was done by a federal officer not by a state officer.

 

[BOHNTR]

HighDesert:

Actually, BOTH Federal and State officers require probable cause for the issuance of a search warrant unless exigent circumstances exist where they feel items of evidentiary value will be destroyed prior to the issuance of a warrant. There are some variations as to the amount of information needed but my experience has been BOTH agencies would need more than just an anonymous tip. With both his business and home searched and items seized, I would only hope they had more than just a phone tip. However, USFWS's record is not stellar in these types of investigations.

I know all about the USFWS and how they "investigate" matters, as I have had to deal with them several times when I was a state warden starting out in my law enforcement career almost 18 years ago. Man, was I glad to transfer from that position and go work for an agency that has good ol' fashion police work and let's you take time off during the hunting season.

Time will tell in this matter and hopefully this awesome buck in question will be the one to come out on top!

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[BrianID]

supersider,

I hope your friend gets this straited out and gets his buck back soon. If the only evidence is a single phone tip then the F&G really need to get their act together. Didn't the fact that your friend won a supper tag give the F&G an idea that your friend might not have poached the buck???

It is good that the F&G were trying to crack down on poachers but they need to show a little more respect especially when they have very little evidence.

 

[supersider34]

My brother ran into a F&G officer while hunting today and he asked about it and the F&G cop told him it was shot in unit 45 during a muzzleloader hunt they have found the exact spot where the pics where taken and the gut pile there they will run DNA on pile and on the horns confiscated. Well reg's show a 45 hunt rifle and Muzzleloader hunt in all of unit 45. The unit is not split up. I thought super tag is for any open hunt. This buck was taken on 10-27. So what other story can come out?
Rumors rumors rumors.

 

[theridge]

Generally, most law enforcement officials know their limitations. It's the envious, jealous, roadhunting podunk SOB's that recreate stories to the law! Many hunters enjoy bashing successful nimrods that happen to EARN their trophies. For myself, I've been accused of feeding trophy bucks steriods(after the harvest, ofcourse), accused of spotlighting and shooting trophy bucks, and accused to killing out of season. Funny thing is that the only time OTHER people see me is when we drive from one hunting spot to another. Friggin road hunters need to get a life and stop giving a carrot to the antis. Anyway, congrats on a fine kill!!!

 

[kicker]

That F&G officers story doesn't make sense at all. The early rifle draw was open on 10/27 and so was the muzz. draw. He had every right to shoot that buck with a rifle at that time.

 

[MartinHunter]

Well, if he knows that he did nothing wrong, he should not worry about being conviceted of any crime which is good! I understand that he probably has to pay for lawyers and such, because I was recently in a case were I was being charged by the city when they had know evidance. I had to get a lawyer and pay all the fees, onlt for the case to be dropepd when I went to trial. He should be able to sue or something for being wrongfully ecused.

Michael

 

[Lowlandmulies]

Supersider

I think either your brother or the F&G cop he talked to have their story wrong. That buck was in the 52-2 muzzleloader hunt area. Supposedly one day it crossed into the 52-1 riffle hunt area where the super tag gentleman harvested it. I hope for all parties involved that this is what happened! the feds do need a search warrant, unless they feel that there are ext-regent circumstances where they don't have time to wait for that warrant. Most warrants can be granted within 24 hours or shorter if needed. They would need more then a phone to get a warrant issued.

As far as the taxidermy shop, the fish and game does not need a warrant to stop by and go through everything in the shop. That is part of being a taxidermist, you give up your rights as far as the searches are concerned. As far as seizing something, well, that might be a different story. But I am almost positive that they wouldn't need a warrant for that either. Again thats part of being a taxidermist and buying that license, you give up that right.

That is an awesome deer, I hope everything was on the up and up. I for one know what rummers can do to people. I hope the buck ends back up in Gary's hands.

Let us know what you hear!

Steve

 

[supersider34]

Here is a scenario for you guys. If there was so much evidence going against anyone for this then why did nothing show up in the newspaper like in other area's around the state? If it was so great of a crime why did it take 8 F&G officers to confinscate the hide from a Taxidermist shop? I looked for it in the local papers and found nothing of the story. Since they try so hard to promote the CAP program.
One thing is, is I am looking at this as innocent till proven guilty. Not guilty till you prove your innocent. Wait till it happens to you. One thing to remember is this if they took the hide do you think that hide is going to be any good after a year not being tanned? They will not tan it. Gary was having a full body mount done of this buck. They knew where the hide was. The horns will last but not the hide. They could of took DNA off the hide and waited till tests where run. I know there are people out there that get capes but to have to buy a full hide to do a full body mount is BS. Do you think F&G will replace it? Will they give him another tag to hunt again for the loss of the hide? Nope.

 

[BrianID]

supersider,

The F&G aren't releasing a story because they don't know if the buck was poached or not. If the DNA matches a gut pile from the 52 muzz hunt area they will be releasing a story. Sounds like you know this guy well enough to believe he didn't poach it and I hope that he didn't and I hope that people don't go around starting rumors without all the facts present. If he did poach it I hope the judge throughs the book at him.

 

[supersider34]

One thing you all have to realize is if one of you had this happened to you I would be there and not let rumors fly around me. I am totally loyal to friends and thats what bothers me. I sit around swapping stories and getting advice from each of them. Totally knowledgeable hunters on where what and habits of mule deer. I for one will back each of them till the end.

 

[nbjbhunterman]

Hey supersider,

I would be pissed off too!!!! F&G sounds like they are trying to show some power. I feel for you and especially the man who shot the buck. Let me know if you want to start a fund and get this man a lawyer.


NBJB

 

[IdahoBugler]

This guy had the supertag. He could hunt any unit, any time there was an open season with the specified weapon. It would suprise me that if he was in a Muzz only unit that he wouldn't just go after the buck with a muzzleloader. Sure your limited due to the choice of weapon but atleast your legal. You would have to know if you take such a fine animal as Gary did that you're going to have a lot of accusations surrounding that animal. I hope everything works out and hope he did shoot it legally. Keep us posted SS.

Later,
IB

 

[hemorrhage]

In this day and age, the F&G can't and doesn't just confiscate without judicial review and a warrant. They just can't. If they did, the hunter will get his animal back, sue for lots of cash and F&G folks will lose their job. They must have evidence that will come out in court.

But, the burden of proof is on the F&G. I guess we will see in the end after it goes through the courts. If he took it legally, he should be able to get it back and enjoy it. If he's guity, may he pay dearly.

I have been seen (and worked with) F&G officers that were rude, cocky and always looking for a fight. I've also seen (and worked with) others that were genuine about trying to find poachers and and protect legal hunters. You certainly have both types. But, I can't imagine one being so stupid to sieze evidence without a warrant.

 

[deep_canyon]

either way I hope that whatever is right comes out. If the animal is taken illegally, They need to make an example of this guy and nail his butt to the wall along with every other poacher

 

[jameister]

Need to wonder if this has an update? I think that Paul Harvey used to say: "and now you know the rest of the story"

So what is the rest of the story? was it a rifle kill in a muzzle loader zone? or was it a rifle kill in a rifle zone?

I was once held hostage by Idaho Fish Game because I had bought a resident license in January, then moved out of state to Colorado, came back to hunt deer with resident tags in that same fall... the back country ranger really thought he had a live one... I told him: either IFG honors its license for a full year or it does not.. either cite me or leave me alone.. his attitude was really a downer around our back country camp, since we were celebrating a successful deer hunt.. I knew I was legal, and he had never dealt with a legal resident license for a moveaweay person before.. in the end, he returned my license, and told me to enjoy my hunt.. my last hunt as a resident.


Let us know what happened here!!

Jameister

 

[manny15]

it seems now a days with big buck$ being paid for big bucks, your guilty until proven inocent.....you wouldn't be seeing this happen if it was a forky..?..Money talks and "well you know what walks".......