Corner Jumping in Wyo!

jims · Feb 5, 2005

I don't know if any of you have heard the news but Wyo is considering a law that will answer the question whether corner jumping public land in Wyo is legal or illegal.

I had always thought corner-jumping was illegal in Wyo and the law is fairly confusing as it is currently written. It would be great if there was a law in place that would answer this question! There was an interesting article in the Casper Star Tribune on this subject and anyone that has access to it may want to post it on this website. It mentioned someone that recently got charge w/trespassing via corner jumping won.

On the bright side, if a law is passed it would be possible to access millions of acres of public land that currently may (or may not?) be off limits to the hunting and fishing public.

I'm not sure how outdoorsman can help, but it would be great if somehow we could contact legislators or who ever is involved with this to give them our opinions.

saminwy · Feb 5, 2005

i think they should make it legal to corner jump, but non residents must have a guide while cornerjumping. hehe.

Wyomingben · Feb 5, 2005

http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar.../wyoming/7ac047cb3d2a4f8d87256edf0007116c.txt

JFWRC · Feb 5, 2005

Leo Sheep Co V. USA. Went to Supreme Court 2 times. Was upheld that corner jumping is illegal as it is an infinate point. I am very suprised this is happening in Wyoming as the original case was brought in Wyoming. Another case was brought to the SC where the construction of a device over the corner was claimed to alleviate the issue. Again, upheld as Trespassing. This will be interesting to watch. I think the AG best do some homework pretty fast. Maybe it'll be a different day in the court.....

oldstinkyfish · Feb 6, 2005

The "infinate point" argument is stupid. This means that the airspace above is private, which can't be right. I know I could fly an airplane over without being prosecuted.

sandhillhunter · Feb 6, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-05 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]This is an interesting discussion. My brother and I are researching similar problems in New Mexico. I assumed when it was talking about corner jumping, a fence would be involved (as is usually the case here in NM- lots of fences, most assumed to be property boundaries, but often not when looking at BLM maps/ gps coordinates).

MartinHunter · Feb 6, 2005

The Wyoming Attorney general issued a statement saying that corner jumping should be considered a legal practice in Wyoming. I have wrote 2 letters to the editor of the Casper Star asking the Wyoming Stock Growers Association what the "concerns" with the practice are, they have not stated them neither to me nor publicly. I think that we all no what the real "concerns" that the ranchers and landowners have.

Skunkterd · Feb 6, 2005

sandhillhunter....
First of all NEVER TRUST BLM MAPS! Always get updated ownership info from the assessor?s recorders office. Secondly corner jumping is illegal in Wyo and will always be illegal. Third, MR Bob Warf Wyoming?s SFW rep is a private land hunter and could care less about the public!!!!!!!!

Triple_BB · Feb 6, 2005

Actually corner jumping in Wyoming is not illegal. A case went to court a year and a half ago in Albany County. The hunter fought it and won. The judge dismissed the charges and said the current law as written is vague and not enforceable. The AG reviewed and said he agreed and advised the state would no longer pursue tresepass charges against future corner jumpers. Hence, you now have legislation that proposes to make corner jumping illegal in Wyoming. The caveat of senate file 028 as written, is that corner jumping will only be illegal if you are hunting or fishing. If you're doing any other activities, its not illegal. Such as taking pictures or hiking. Please call or e-mail your senate representatives and advise them to vote no on senate file 028.

JFWRC · Feb 6, 2005

Again, please research Leo Sheep Co V. USA. The Supreme Court of US has been and is in this one. It will take a lot of Moxy to reverse a US SC decision.

MartinHunter · Feb 6, 2005

Tripple_BB, you make an interesting point by stating the truth behind Senate File 028. The agricultural community only wants to keep those of us out that my not favor there pocket book. Senate File 028 is an insult to anybody with a brain! It is plain to see that they wrote the bill to keep out only hunters and fishermen. They use this land locked PUBLIC land for personal gain. They are free refugees for fish and game. Ranchers and landowners are paid by out of state hunters and outfitters to use there land, along with this inaccessible public haven. Only because this state is ran by ranchers do I believe this bill will pass, it will not stop me from corner jumping that's for damn sure. Hell, it makes me want to do it even more right now. Just because it is a law does not make it right. Just because a rich rancher wants to get richer does not mean we have to allow it.

Triple_BB · Feb 7, 2005

>Again, please research Leo Sheep Co
>V. USA. The Supreme Court
>of US has been and
>is in this one. It
>will take a lot of
>Moxy to reverse a US
>SC decision.

I'd suggest you research it and consult with the Wyoming AG's office. If your court case had any merit to this issue, the district court judge in Albany County would've used it as a basis to find that hunter guilty. Further, The Wyoming AG would've cited it and not agreed with the judge. Additionally, we wouldn't have or be fighting senate file 028. Your argument appears to be a moot point...

Skunkterd · Feb 7, 2005

Triple_BB

The judge in Albany County who dropped the case is a flake!!!! His indecision only makes it worse for the average Joe!! As you see it will end up being criminal trespass when you Conner jump to reach these lands

Remember you can $hit the tourists but there is no $hitting skunk $hit

JFWRC · Feb 7, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-05 AT 12:32PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-05 AT 12:30?PM (MST)

The US Supreme Court ruled in Leo Sheep Company V. United States, 440 U.S. 668 (1979) that the Government (public) does not have an implied right of way to cross privately owned sections of "checkerboard" lands to get to the Government-owned section of those lands. TZ Land & Cattle Co. V. Condict 795P. 2d 1204, 1207 (Wyo 1990) is another case you should get a handle on. Another case is Camfield V. United States, 167 U.S. 518 (1897) cited for use in Leo Sheep Company. If there is something I am missing here, let me know. I have always understood that the US Supreme Court was the law of the land. Maybe it will go to them again. I'm just citing case precidence and please don't think that Lawyers haven't screwed up before Triple_BB.

awvskeeter · Feb 7, 2005

Can I ask a very dumb question? What is corner jumping? Help me out here.

Wyomingben · Feb 8, 2005

Corner jumping describes the practice of stepping over the corner created where four sections of land meet in order to reach a cater-corner parcel of public lands.

kelcher · Feb 8, 2005

Here's another stupid question. What is the point of having land declared "public" if the public can't get access to it?

org · Feb 8, 2005

Excellent question. The problem is that ranchers have clout completely out of proportion to their numbers and economic impact. There are a number of large plots of BLM land that's totally enclosed by private land, and the public is excluded. However, if you can spend several thousand dollars for an outfitter, he'll only be too happy to get you onto your public land. IMHO, if a rancher is allowed to graze the public land, he should be required to provide an easement to it for public use. These guys are selling crossing rights to the outfitter while keeping the public off. All the while they're allowed to graze the land.

Grasshopper · Feb 8, 2005

Which one of you guys wants to challenge the stupid wyoming wilderness guide rule? I have a $100 for your defense fund if you'll get the ticket!

I'd do it myself, but the area I put in for has no wilderness.

This guys had the guts to challenge the law, I applaud him for doing it! That is an American hero!

JFWRC · Feb 8, 2005

One of the ways we fixed a big problem on checkerboard here in NM is exchange with the federal agency. Of course there were those that did not think it was fair and there were those that didn't want it to happen as they saw a loss in hunting acreage with a distinct boundary made. However, the agency and the landowner got rid of a lot of headaches and close calls with hot tempers.

MartinHunter · Feb 8, 2005

Thats another law that was designed to make people money. My uncle is a non-res, but he was born and raised in Casper Wyoming and has only live out of state 8 years out of his life. He has to hire a guide to hunt an elk area he hunted with my dad all his life. Since he moved he has not come back to hunt, he says for that price he can go to Canada or Alaska.

Michael