Colorado Tag Pimp

nailer · Mar 27, 2005

how come when we find a good hunt to do every year someone comes along and try,s to get rich off it. now in this guys newsletter he,s selling tags and does,nt give the ranchers # . so i started calling them one after another guess what?. the little guy gets the shaft again. most ranchers told me they got barely half of his list prices. get out your old newsletters ,in the back is almost all ranchers numbers. so i started calculating he stands to make at least 500,000 - 800,000 just off of colorado. this is right up there with u.s.o. . i,m calling monday to fish and game to complain.they need to change this system. Nailer

archeryelkaholic · Mar 27, 2005

I don't see this any different than USO.

I hope Colorado does not up the limits on tags like this because if they do you can expect to have the same thing as you have for Kansas Whitetails right now. It is just pure crazy but folks pay the money.

This person will also push everyone and his brother to 55 and then other units near there as he pushes to get more tags in and around there.

A

BUCKSPY · Mar 28, 2005

The Division of Wildlife is addressing the landowner voucher program this year. If you are interested in being heard you can email both the director of the DOW at [email protected] and the entire wildlife commision is supposed to recieve a copy of your email if sent to [email protected]

I would suggest you do so if you feel strongly about it. Landowner vouchers have gone from a benefit for the landowner to a organized "preference point" bartering system. You aren't buying the tag, you aren't buying access to private land. All you are buying is a short cut to the draw system and jumping ahead of those with points who are waitng to draw a tag through the preference point system.

Making landowner vouchers good ONLY for the private land to which they were issued instead of being valid unit wide would solve all these troubles.

Waygoner · Mar 28, 2005

I looked over the DOW web site and couldn't find any information on landowner vouchers. Can someone explain what is happening with these tags? They can be sold to the highest bidder, right? You can hunt the landowner's property plus the surrounding unit? Are the landowners still eligible for crop damage compensation?

DeerKing · Mar 28, 2005

As Buckspy said, if this bothers you then send emails to the listed addresses.

Waygoner
Certain people/brokers are buying landowner tags for a very cheap cost then turning around and selling them basically for 10X or more of what the regular cost would be. Most times you DO NOT get to hunt the private land the voucher came from (and you still have to pay the tag cost), but within the law as of now you can hunt the public land in the unit the voucher came from. I do know some landowners getting crop damage compensation... when there is virtually none happening.

AntlerQuest Hunt Consulting

snowman22250 · Mar 28, 2005

Can someone please tell my where to look for these landowner phone numbers, I thought CO had a private law that protects private landowner from having their phone numbers listed.
Thanks,
Snowman

Waygoner · Mar 29, 2005

Thanks for the explanation. The increasing commercialization of hunting really bothers me. I'll send an email and let my thoughts be known.

The Ranching for Wildlife program is also being reviewed also. Pass along any concerns you have with this program as well. The 10% public tag allocation is now only going to resident hunters, which is a step in the right direction. I've heard some complaints about the public hunters not being given the same access/treatment as the private hunters. I'd like to see this addressed.

MuskegMan · Mar 29, 2005

"This person will also push everyone and his brother to 55 and then other units near there as he pushes to get more tags in and around there."

This person, I believe is Garth Carter @ The Huntin' Fool. Yes, the recommendations he makes can really wreak havoc on the odds of drawing that unit in the following year. I can see how that can be a bummer. What takes 3 points one year takes 4 the next and then 5 the next and heck, you may never draw it in a lifetime.

"Can someone please tell my where to look for these landowner phone numbers, I thought CO had a private law that protects private landowner from having their phone numbers listed."

Landowner phone numbers and the asking price for the tag are published in the Huntin' Fool. CDOW does not provide them, I don't think.

"Certain people/brokers are buying landowner tags for a very cheap cost then turning around and selling them basically for 10X or more of what the regular cost would be."

I work with someone who went to school with Garth. He doesn't make his money on the $100/yr subscriptions. He makes it on Outfitter referrals and landowner tags. It's just good old American capitalism at it's best. Love it, or leave it. He links up landowners with clients that have big $$$ to spend. I think the 10x figure is somewhat inflated, but I've never purchased a landowner tag myself.

I don't think that buying a tag from a landowner should entitle the hunter to hunt the entire unit, only the on the private land the landowner owns himself. Now that should be changed.

Now here's crossing my fingers that I draw a 2nd or 3rd choice tag this year. I put in for Unit 55 as a first choice knowing that there's no chance in hell drawing it with my bonus points.

Prism · Mar 29, 2005

Muskegman said, "I work with someone who went to school with Garth. He doesn't make his money on the $100/yr subscriptions."

Lets see, 8,500 people paying $100 a year. HMMMMM $850,000.00 doesn't sound like a bad living to me. The other stuff is just gravy.

ktg · Mar 29, 2005

Before this year, people could purchase the tags from the landowner. This year, all the tags are going through this broker. From last year to this year the tag I was watching went up 20%.

graybeard · Mar 29, 2005

Many years ago Garth decided he wanted to make a living in the hunting world. I'd say he has succeded very nicely. I'm jealous only because I didn't think of it first. It's a dog eat dog world and you're going to make enemies along the way. If he didn't do it someone else would....just my observations...

Warren · Mar 29, 2005

I'm a Huntin' Fool, but not a money fool. There are some tags that are way out there on the price. But, if someone comes up with the money, then it is just business. Some landowners don't want the hassle of dealing with the public.
New Mexico list the landowners on the web site along with the phone number. I went on a good ranch hunt that way a few years ago in New Mexico. It seems that their system works well and is reasonably well accepted. Maybe it doesn't work as well in Colorado.
One positive thing about ranch and landowner tags is that it shows the value of managing for wildlife to the landowner.

cabinfever · Mar 29, 2005

I'm in sales, and I frequently have the oppurtunity to sale my products for 3 times what they are worth. Instead, I choose to sale my product at a fair market price. Why? Because it's the right thing to do, and I value my customers and their repeat business, their refferals, and I especially want to maintain a good name. I have tried to think of a logical explanation why Garth Carter and others would try to sale undersubscribed tags for 4 times what there worth. I have come up with no logical reason. I'm not saying this guys service isn't a valuable resource. He's taken some very nice trophys over the years. I have even thought about signing up, but when I found out what he was doing with undersubscribed tags in Co I was a bit outraged, to say the least. I know there are guys on this form, some of whom I respect, say we shouldn't openly use peoples names on this site. I agree, especially when it's pure speculation. However, I have confirmed time and time again that Garth C is selling undersubscribed tags. This is fact not speculation.Sounds like the almighty dollar has got the best of him IMO.

An honest dollar is worth more than a million earned in deciet

Mike

ALLMASS · Mar 30, 2005

I think 43 went undersubscribed in '04 because a lot of the landowner tags did not get applied for by landowners. That will obviously change this year! Will there be any undersubscribed units on the west side this year?

graybeard · Mar 30, 2005

There will be lots of undersubscribed units this year as always for deer. Most folks go to CO to hunt elk and many of them will get there buck tag after the drawing. However, this year is setting up to be a great one as far as quality deer harvest and for the last couple of years the bucks in many units have been able to grow up. The better units may not be able to be drawn as second choice this year, and there are a lot of "better" units these days. Good luck in the draw, Steve

GS1000 · Mar 30, 2005

If he wanted to screw guys he would sell the Gunnison tags for $7500, we all know they are worth it. Paunsaugunt tags are selling for $9500+ and aren't worth $2,000! That place flat sucks! Colorado tags aren't going to sell for $500 anymore and I think that is why some of you are so emotional about it. I feel alot of guys are jealous and realize that he has hit the nail on the head with the trophy producing units. He has told me that I should try to draw 43 and it was undersubscribed last year but that this year it might not be. He didn't push any tag on me and says he only has access to them if I wanted one.

Pennington is selling 43 tags, why so hard on Garth and not others. Get off the couch and go hunting, jealousy will eat you alive.

Prism · Mar 30, 2005

LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-05 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]Garth has been very successful-good for him. Who would of thought 10 years ago that his hunting information service would of turned into what it has? There'd be a lot more of us doing it had we known.

I don't really agree with what's going on with the leftover tags, but with all of the hype Colorado is receiving who's to say 100% that these tags are going to be undersubscribed in 2005? Placing a price on anything makes it more valuble, and I'd bet that these areas are going to see A LOT more applicants than they ever have.

Founder · Mar 30, 2005

I would have to agree, those unit 43 tags might not go undersubscribed this year. But, it would take a lot people applying for it not to.

I think Garth Carter offers a great service. Not sure what the thinking is about the unit 43 vouchers for $1,000. Maybe he feels confident that they will all go in the draw as 1st choice. I don't know.

Please guys, don't accuse him of trying to pull one over without knowing what he knows. He is well respected by most.

As far as these tags selling for 4 times what brokers are paying, I don't think most will. Word travels fast and many landowners are quickly realizing what a good voucher is worth. They have skyrocketed since last year. And with or without brokers, they will continue to do so as long as there are people who are willing to pay the price.

I think Garth is just trying to make a living selling a few vouchers. If he can do it, good for him. He has the product and customers.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

cabinfever · Mar 30, 2005

Bryan

Garth is flat out pumping unit 43 up like it's the AZ Strip or something. I think 43 will probably be better than any place in UT, but it's far from a top unit in CO. I got nothing against him making money doing what he's doing. But tell me you wouldn't be upset if you bought a tag for 1000-1200 only to find out that you could have purchased the tag for $290. Please realize i'm not attacking Garth as a person, but his business ethics are questionable.

Mike

Founder · Mar 30, 2005

Mike,

I know what you mean. I'd definitely be pissed if I bought one and then found that I could have drawn it as a 2nd choice.
All I'm saying is that maybe he firmly believes it can't be drawn as a second choice this year.
I don't subscribe, so I don't know what all he's written about the place. I did see the vouchers for sale though.

Maybe the guys who are interested in the vouchers ARE being told all the details when they call. ??? I don't know. If they are, I would hate to see him getting a black eye over selling them.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

nvmuley · Mar 30, 2005

Bottom line: nobody made anybody buy anything. If you can't do any of your own research and have money to spend, that's what America is about. I'm personally sorry to see all the other reasons we say hunt, time spent with family and friends, the outdoor experiences, the big bucks, the sunrises, the deer camps etc kinda getting pushed to the back for big money. Hard to maintain traditions when you only get to go every 4 years or more. Something just doesn't seem right about that. Real hunters have always been about more than money and working guys with families sure feel the money squeeze. And I fear the NR price increases are not over yet.

----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

GS1000 · Mar 30, 2005

Cabin do you even know what you are talking about? You obviously haven't seen the Colorado section of his mag cause 43 isn't even listed in the top 12 units! It is in his sleeper units and he shows no points needed and from all of the concern you guys have it must be sleeper.

If you don't want any of the tags DON'T BUY ONE. Colorado won't publish the landowner names and numbers and so it seems a few industrious guys have a monopoly on the tags and I agree that sucks, but I am glad they are around so I can hunt instead of knocking on doors all year long.

FYI, the biologist told me that they were going to reduce the tags there as leftover tags usually sell to a lower class of hunters who create havoc with the landowners in the area. 43 is old news anyway, why do we have to keep hearing about it?

Roy · Mar 30, 2005

I'm sorry - I though this said "Colorado Pimp Tag" - though it was talking about a good way to end prostitution in CO - danm lysdexia!

ROY

cabinfever · Mar 31, 2005

GS1000

I don't participate in Garths sevice, I prefer to do my own research. I've had some friends buy the 43 tag from Garth and I can promise you they didn't know they were undersubscribed last year. If Garth wants to sell the tag with the disclosure that these were unsubscribed tags last year and may be undersubscribed this year and you'll have almost a 100% chance of drawing the tag as a first choice this year, than I got no problem with it. Incidently, I bought, or rather reserved a LO tag for this year. The guy that sold me the tag tried to put me on another unit that could be drawn as a first choice, but the difference is that he disclosed that piece of info to me, and as a result i went with a different tag. Ok maybe I was a bit extreme in saying that he was pumping it up to be as good as the strip, however, I just hope all these guys thinking they are going to go to 43 and see big bucks all over the place with very few hunters know what they got their selfs into. Does garth tell you in his hunt n fool mag that there will be hunters all over the place (because he pumped the unit up), lots of private land, with most of the bigger bucks on private land. I'll i'm saying is buyer beware. Again, that why I do my own research.

good day
Mike

Mike