180-gr. Ballistic Tips on Deer?

1

147_Grain

Guest
What do you folks think of using 180-gr. Ballistic Tips on tough Mule Deer?

FYI:

Nosler reports that beginning with the 30 caliber 180-gr. Ballistic Tips (and larger), the jacket's profile is changed or upgraded to a much stronger contour similar to the AccuBond (shown below). The lead core is also hardened over the 165-gr. and below bullets.

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Lighter weight bullets like 165-gr. 30 caliber and lower (shown below) do not have the thicker contour which starts in the middle of the shell and goes down to the base.

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In summary, one might suggest that the 180-gr. Ballistic Tip is simply a non-bonded AccuBond.

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Plenty of bullet. If all you are hunting is deer, load em' up and get after it. If you plan on shooting elk, spend a few more bucks and load accubonds.

BTW, what caliber are you shooting these out of?
 
I am not sure how they will perform. I have used 150gr ballistic tips in my .270 for deer and elk. I will never use them again for hunting purposes. The bullets held great accuracy and performed well on paper. They did the job of bringing down both elk and deer but the damgage to the front shoulders wasted enitrely too much meat. And the weight retention of the bullet was poor to say the least.

Just my $.02
 
I agree with crextin. I've seen dozens of critters shot with ballistic tips. I won't ever use them on deer or larger game and won't allow our hunters to use them either. There are too many other good choices, so no need to use ballistic tips. Nosler makes other quality bullets and the ballistic tips are very accurate, but I will never consider using them on deer, elk or moose.
 
I have to agree with a couple of above posts. The Ballistic tip is a great performer on paper, but if your fps is over 3000, they are a meat wasting bomb. Not much penetration before they simply expand and blow up. I've lost both deer and coyotes to the bullet, and don't shoot it at anything but prairie dogs anymore. I love Nosler, but this bullet is really not for big game.
 
>Plenty of bullet.>
>BTW, what caliber are you shooting
>these out of?

My 30-06 shoots factory Winchester Supreme 180-gr. Silvertips at 2,750 fps very accurately and my goal is to use a bullet that will anchor the animal on the spot.

I'm not a reloader and have plenty of AccuBonds, Solid Base, and Partitions in stock - all 180-gr.

Nosler says their bullets rank in the following order - from least frangile to the toughest:

* Ballistic Tip (BC of .507)
* Solid Base (BC of .491)
* AccuBond (BC of .509)
* Partition (BC of .474)

Steve

P.S. I plan on trying out the Ballistic Tips, then Solid Base, and suspect it'd be OK to use the 180-gr. AccuBond on everything, including elk.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-05 AT 03:56PM (MST)[p]I agree with the complaints below. I've shot both mule deer and elk with 180 gr ballistic tips out of my .300Win, and the meat loss was terrible - even when the animal's front shoulder was not hit. I love noslers as well, but we used to jokingly call the ballistic tips "meat seeking missles".

Pity, too - my .300 shoots the best at the range with 180 gr ballistics. I'd go with the Accubonds or Swift Sciroccos instead.
 
I used them out of my .300 winnie for one season. All animals dropped, but, the bullets ruined a lot of meat...not worth it for me.
 
I wish someone with Nosler would read this post. They are a great company, but have illusions on the performance of this bullet. I've written to them and they claim the ballistic tips penetrate well and that they have been enhanced through the years, etc, but the proof is from hunters like those who have written here.

Thansk for posting. I was glad to read what others said.
 
Not to piss in anyone's cherrio's, but those 180 gr. Ballistic Tips (at least .30 cal) out of something like a .300 Win. Mag. are a smoking load for deer and elk. I would argue that if you're trying to shoot them in the front shoulders, then you are using the wrong bullet in the first place (though correctly stated, your pack job will be easier)!

If you're a heart/lung shooter like most people, AND can actually hit them there, then there's nothing wrong with the B-Tips, as they're designed for expansion and energy transfer (destruction and shock of the internal organs). They tend to be more forgiving too (i.e. they will break down the shoulder on an elk, but in contrast the partitions on a simple lung shot with no bone contact will blow a little pin hole right out the other side giving much less tissue trauma or energy transfer, resulting in slower kill, more travel after being shot, more chance of losing the animal, etc...). I'm not sure what you guys consider good weight retention, but I consistently get just over 80% on my recovered bullets? That seems pretty good to me!

And an outfitter telling his clients he won't allow Ballistic Tips in his hunting camp is about the dumbest dang thing I've ever heard! I'd take somebody who could center punch an elk at 300 yards with Ballitstic Tips over some cannon shooting Partitions that hoped to hit hair at 200 yards.

I've only shot three elk with Ballistic Tips, but two went down within five feet of where they were shot and the other ran about 200 yards with both lungs blown out. I'm a little surpised it ran so far, but boy the blood trail was sure easy to follow!

Bottom line is every gun and load is different. In some calibers and for some loads, I think you guys would be surprised at the B-Tips performance. On the other hand, what works for one guy don't necessarily work for the next guy, that's why you need to experiment a little. Don't take some other guys word on what's the best, it may not be for your gun or caliber anyways!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-05 AT 08:30PM (MST)[p]Hey MDC, Use Ballistic Tips and be happy. Just don't take any marginal shots. How about a big bull or buck that only presents a shoulder? Or maybe a ram or goat where the shot is the shoulder as a rule? Ballistic Tips work great on varmints and possibly antelope. I wouldn't count on their performance when hitting bone. The faster you push them, the worse they perform. Try the Accubond. mtmuley P.S. I have taken animals with the Partition, Ballistic Tip and Accubond using two drastically different cartridges.
 
Anybody here really think 2,300 foot pounds of energy isn't enough to bust the shoulder on a bull elk, regardless of wether or not it blows out the other side? I'd take a shoulder shot in a second if that's what I had and wouldn't worry a bit about if it would break him down. And a shoulder shot on a ram or goat would flat out hammer them! As discussed earlier it was more an issue of meat wastage.

Don't read too much into my opinion, I merely suggested if you have something that works for you great. If not, don't be afraid to try something else. And either way I wouldn't be afraid to shoot 180 grain Ballistic Tips, even if you have to shoot a bull or buck in the shoulder once in a while.

Don't claim to know it all, just what seems to work for me. And who knows, that may change in the future also? I just love to hunt! Heck, I'd figure out how to shoot rocks out of an old 30-30 if I had too!!! Not trying to ruffle any feathers out there!
 
MDC,

I've got what I consider to be a lot of experience with hunters and their shooting and loads. I make every hunter shoot off the bench when they first show up. Some can't even hit the target holder. Many of our field shots happen too quickly for these inexperienced hunters. I'd say only one in 10 is a skilled, competent hunter. (Otherwise would they need our services?) When a quartering away big buck or bull is moving through the brush or timber, we absolutely NEED a bullet that will penetrate the hindquarters and get into the vitals. (A few inches back is a wreck, and it DOES happen.) And when a critter is quartering to us, we need a bullet that will go THROUGH that shoulder and get into the vitals. It is often impossible to wait for aperfect broadside shot on a trophy buck or bull. You just have to have a bullet that penetrates.

I've seen a big number of critters shot with ballistic tips. They are great bullet and they are extremely accurate. But for marginal shots on gig game with unskilled shooters, I'll pass.

If putting the welfare of the trophies we hunt first is "dumb", then feel free to call me any names you please. I'll always do what's best for the deer, elk and antelope we pursue.

Good hunting.
 
Not knocking you perse, just find it interesting that some guy paying you $5,000 to chase elk would be ameanable to being told what he could shoot.

And I understand your point about clients not being able to hit the target stand. You got more patience than me, I couldn't handle that job at all! Although if you're encouraging them to shoot at a bull running through the brush and hoping their bullet is tough enough to penetrate the hind quarters and into the vitals, then I would argue you're not really looking out for the animals well-being or quick dispatch or you wouldn't be encouraging such poor shots, especially when you already watched them target shoot and they couldn't hit the target stand (am I missing something here???)!

On the other hand, most guys that show up with green bullets in their case are reloading them, not buying them at K-Mart. Most reloaders are finicky by nature and have logged a lot of time at the range (which hopefully means they can hit the target stand). I'd take someone that could hit with Ballistic Tips over someone who couldn't hit with partitions. And a guy's got to use some common sense when it comes to shot selection!!! If you don't have a good shot you don't shoot or am I just talking out my butt here?
 
MDC, opinions on bullets are all over the map. If you like BT's, more power to ya. I think it's way more important to have confidence and knowledge about your load's performance. If you have that with the BT's, great! Stick with what works. I tried the BT's for a few years. Simply a matter of excessive meat damage for me - all animals were still dead, so the bullet did its job I guess. I just remember putting what I thought was a perfect shot on a bull elk with a 180BT right behind the front shoulder. Upon skinning the animal, the bullet hole was there right behind the shoulder directly in the vitals, and I found what was left of the bullet under the opposite hide. The bad part was I guess the "shock" from the bullet fragmenting that bloodied a good part of both front shoulders and part of the fronts of the t-loins. A little too much damage for me.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've found "faults" with Barnes as well. Those bullets hold their shape so well and travel so fast out of my .300 (in handloads) that I think there is almost not enough expansion (at least at close ranges). I shot a buck at 75 yards in Montana in 2003 and it didn't even flinch. Just stood there. I shot it again (in the vitals) and it still didn't fall, but I knew it was hit. It walked about 15-20 yards and dropped. Upon cleaning, both bullets entered within 1" of each other and the exit hole was not that much bigger than the entry. Point is, I think I'm going to try the Accubond or Sciroccos this year.

Sorry for the long post. Good luck this season!
 
ICMDEER-
Are you kidding me? You just painted a terrible picture with your last post...I can just see a buck or bull sneaking away with only a hind quarter shot and just before he hits the thickets, here you are screaming "SHOOT!!" to a client that may or may not be able to even hit a target stand. Then weather or not he kills the animal, you explain that it was in the animals best interest that the solid bullet was used.
Whatever! I hate to break it to you but MC is exactly right about the ballistic tips. There will be angles that the ballistic tips will not perform as well as the more solid bullet. But there will also be angles that the ballistic tip will perform better than the solid bullet. Imo, I would love to find the bullet just exiting the skin with all of the explosive energy expelled on the organs within. I know of more animals being lost to high velocity calibers that put a pin hole through the animal with a solid bullet. Anyway, my point is that you cannot be so black and white about saying NO to ballistic tips on deer and elk. That's insane.
 
I see a lot of posts here from personal experiences. Here's mine. I have posted it before, but I have taken over 20 animals with a .300 Ultra and a 200 grain Accubond. No "pencil holes", no bad meat damage. I don't shoot where the meat is. I took an antelope with this load. Too much gun? Too much bullet? No way! The yardages I have taken game with this cartridge and load range from 40 yards to almost 700. If a bullet is making a "pencil hole" through an animal, change bullets. ( I don't believe any hunting bullet available today will do this. Maybe a FMJ?) mtmuley
 
You guys are reading WAY TOO MUCH into this post. I ONLY ALLOW/ENCOURAGE OUR HUNTERS TO TAKE SHOTS THAT ARE MAKEABLE AND WITHIN THEIR ABILITIES. We do not allow hunters to take shots at running game. Period. I did not write that. Go re-read. But sometimes critters are MOVING (read walking for those are are negative and fault-finders) at odd angles or through LOW brush or OPENINGS in trees.

I would say this. I've been a licensed outfitter for 18 years. Thus far we are 100% success on six point or better bulls for our clients. We have NEVER lost a crippled elk. If that's not showing good judgement and management, then what is the standard? Find me another outfitter that's been in business that long and has 100% on six point or better (two seven points) bulls and I'll try to pattern my behavior after them.

Please check our website at www.triplecreekhunts.com and see what you think. You can call me at 307-837-3023 if you need to discuss this, and I'll be glad to provide an exhaustive list of satisfied clients.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not one who continuously reads these threads and trieds to find fault. I try to learn something from this website. Let's be a positive. (Is that possible?)

I apologize for putting my website and phone on MM. I do not like to do that, but this case warrants some investigation by the criticizers.
 
No need to apologize as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate the candid input!

While Nosler does recommend Ballistic Tips for deer, several other bullets they make will do the job as well.

* Solid Base performs like a Sierra Game King, but with much more penetration.

* AccuBond provides ideal expansion and penetrates even more than Hornady's InterBond.
 
Try posting this on accuratereloading.com... the best reloading group that I have found on the web.

I vote for the accubond... just worked up a load for my 300 weath using 200 grain accubonds.
 

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