I have a question

deerkiller · May 21, 2019

Has anyone ever looked in to how many animals, deer/elk/bison/pronghorn/moose/sheep/etc, our public lands could support if we were to completely remove AUMs/grazing allotments on public land? How much would our overall state wide and unit wide objects be able to grow? A significant amount? Or would it barely be noticeable? With the way point creep is effecting draws for public renewable resources, and the demand hunters have on it, could this be another way to help create more ?opportunity? instead of making special seasons or more seasons?

I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure this will pushes some public grazers buttons, but after my experience with several of them over the years, I'm not too concerned about their opinions at this point in time.

txhunter58 · May 22, 2019

Didn't push my buttons, and I don't have a dog in the fight. However, I will guess that no one has looked at that, because it will never happen.

Sure it would help and help quite a bit in carrying capacity of the range, but it has as much chance getting any traction as I do of making it into the NBA (at 61 years old)

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

need4x4 · May 30, 2019

Think of how much water would be removed.

Think very long and very hard about it.

Much of the area that has limited water would have even less.

Homer · May 30, 2019

hmmmmm....ever looked at the number that the Utah cattle Industry contributes to the state economy????

...I'm pretty sure there were very very very few deer in southern Utah and Northern Arizona before the cattlemen developed the water....

hossblur · Jun 1, 2019

More. Probably a lot more in some regions. However like a few have mentioned, water in other regions would be lacking.

Before $fw cut out 150,000 hunters we might could have made the case that we were a big enough economic force to push something like that, but we aren't now.

I really have no problem with grazing, to me it's part of Western culture. I could live without those damm white dogs.

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

notdonhunting · Jun 1, 2019

Are they not called Public Lands and Multi Use.
Also is not most 90%+ grazing done on Fedral property (FFSL/BLM).
I do not see why or how the State of Utah could have a say in grazing Fedral property, unless the state's took control of Fedral property.
If you where successful No matter how much you could increase the amount on summer range.
You can pretty much kiss your deer and elk herds good bye come winter and the deer and elk come on private property farmers/ranchers.

deerkiller · Jun 2, 2019

>You can pretty much kiss your
>deer and elk herds good
>bye come winter and the
>deer and elk come on
>private property farmers/ranchers.

They ##### and moan so hard as it is when they end up on private lands that they issue more than enough tags to wipe out a herd. For some reason cattlemen get to have their cake and eat it too. I just get tired of their entitlement attitude when it comes to their public grazing and how their private herds have to compete with naturally existing animals on the public lands they graze on.

elkassassin · Jun 2, 2019

>hmmmmm....ever looked at the number that
>the Utah cattle Industry contributes
>to the state economy????

Ya!

It's Nevada Suffering from the Bundy Clan!

>
>...I'm pretty sure there were very
>very very few deer in
>southern Utah and Northern Arizona
>before the cattlemen developed the
>water....
>
>
>
>
>

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

Elkslayer2015 · Jun 3, 2019

They ##### and moan so hard as it is when they end up on private lands that they issue more than enough tags to wipe out a herd

deerkiller
Have you ever seen what a herd of elk do to fences and wheel lines and riser I have you have no clue what destruction the elk do to private property

Ranchers pay and run miles of pipe and add water troughs and build ponds in areas that has hardly any water it's not only for the cattle it's for the wildlife.

Cattle also fertilize the ground to help grow more feed.

Cattle also help with Wildfires

deerkiller just curious what you do for are wildlife on public land to make it better...

deadibob · Jun 3, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-19 AT 12:22PM (MST)[p]>>hmmmmm....ever looked at the number that
>>the Utah cattle Industry contributes
>>to the state economy????
>
>Ya!
>
>It's Nevada Suffering from the Bundy
>Clan!
>
>
>>
>>...I'm pretty sure there were very
>>very very few deer in
>>southern Utah and Northern Arizona
>>before the cattlemen developed the
>>water....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

Hey Bessy, what's with the photo of that little brat from the movie "The Toy" ? I remember my Aunt taking me to that movie as a kid and I really liked it because it showed some titties

Richard Pryor was one of the great ones but as far as range cattle go, they aren't good for anything but McDonalds pink slime.

deerkiller · Jun 3, 2019

>They ##### and moan so hard
>as it is when they
>end up on private lands
>that they issue more than
>enough tags to wipe out
>a herd
>
>deerkiller
>Have you ever seen what a
>herd of elk do to
>fences and wheel lines and
>riser I have you have
>no clue what destruction the
>elk do to private property
>
>
>
>Ranchers pay and run miles of
>pipe and add water troughs
>and build ponds in areas
>that has hardly any water
>it's not only for the
>cattle it's for the wildlife.
>
>
>Cattle also fertilize the ground to
>help grow more feed.
>
>Cattle also help with Wildfires
>
>deerkiller just curious what you do
>for are wildlife on public
>land to make it better...
>

It's hard to really understand what you're trying to say with the punctuation, grammar and spelling issues... but I think I get the concept.

For starters, I've enrolled in the dedicated hunter program for my 4th time this year. I've participated in many projects that help with wildlife habitat restoration and other projects they benefit from. I've done more than my fair share of depredation hunts that took place on or near agricultural areas to reduce animal numbers and push animals away from those areas. I've made donations to organizations and the DWR To fund projects. I've done work for private land owners with the expectation of nothing in return. I've donated feed to give to hungry deer and elk in high traffic areas to encourage them to stay away from areas where damage can occur from them. I also pay taxes and license fees every year to help pay for the damages these animals cause. Those ranchers built their living on the wild animals turf. It wasn?t the other way around. I can't send the state of Utah a bill for damages done to my personal vehicle by potholes in their roads, that I hit on my way to work. It's just one of the risks associated with earning a living. The state has came up with many programs and restitution payments to help farmers with damages done by wildlife. If I had it my way, a farmer shouldn't receive a dime from the state for damages done by wildlife, unless these farmers are enrolled in a program to allow public hunters help reduce the problem before it gets out of hand.

notdonhunting · Jun 3, 2019

deer killer you are not willing to answer my questions.

First question: Is not the Federal Forest land and BLM multi use and dont Ranchers have as much right as you or me to use the land lawfully and with in there rights as being part of multi use?

Second question: why do you think the State Utah or whatever state you might be from have any right to say how Federal Forest Service or BLM manages there land?

Third question: Why would a Rancher/Farmer after being kicked off of multi use public property would allow any deer or elk to feed on there private property during the harsh winter months, when sometimes that is the only feed available to the animals?

You state in your comment that farmers should not receive a dime from a year reimbursement program unless they allow hunting on there property. Yes deerkiller there is farmers and ranchers that do take advantage of reimbursement programs that do not allow hunting on there property and that is wrong but most deer and elk that do damage during the winter and spring months on private property is done at night and when there is not a hunting season to pursue the animals. The alfalfa field's and winter grains can be destroyed in the spring time in one night and then the deer and elk will move on to the next farmer.
I am not a farmer or rancher but I have family and friends that are and I have lived in central Utah my whole life no rancher is getting rich off of public land grazing. The big outfits do not do public land grazing they graze private there is not enough money in the small grazing allotments. Mom and Pop operations run public land, it is a way of life in most parts of Utah

Homer · Jun 3, 2019

that's my photo deadi....THAT is Master Bates.....

deerkiller · Jun 4, 2019

What were your questions? Is the land multi use? Yes it is. But every cattleman I've ran into on the mountain felt way more entitled to be there than anyone else does because they ?pay? to use the land. That's a literal quote told to me by different ranchers in Utah, Juab, sanpete and sevier counties. They all didn't give a ##### what I was doing there or were willing to try and work things out where we both won. They were rude, disrespectful and demonstrated that their public land activity was much more important than mine because money was involved. I'll admit, I can be a real ##### to people over dumb #####. But I never, ever start out that way. I'm polite, reasonable and try to figure out situations where both parties can win when conflicts come up. Every time I've had issues and tried to work something out, I basically get told to get f***ed, they are paying to be there, which gives them more right to the land than me. I hate people like that. I use to support them and their livelihood 100%. After many experiences with them over different scenarios, I support them 0%. That's just my opinion, which I'm sure many think is wrong, but it is what it is.

Tikka · Jun 4, 2019

"Before $fw cut out 150,000 hunters we might could have made the case that we were a big enough economic force to push something like that, but we aren't now."

That statement always cracks me up... lets print tags like the Feds print money... The tag ain't worth a ##### because we have no deer, but hey at least I have a tag in my pocket...

Elkslayer2015 · Jun 5, 2019

Well I apologize for my spelling problems

I appreciate what you have done.

Do you realize that everything you just stated most ranchers do as well about 90% of them are hunters as well

If they don't allow you on there land it's because they had a problem with previous hunters not respecting their land I have ran into this numerous of times but I respect there wishes.

YBO · Jun 8, 2019

hossblur · Jun 11, 2019

>"Before $fw cut out 150,000 hunters
>we might could have made
>the case that we were
>a big enough economic force
>to push something like that,
>but we aren't now."
>
>That statement always cracks me up...
>lets print tags like the
>Feds print money... The tag
>ain't worth a ##### because
>we have no deer, but
>hey at least I have
>a tag in my pocket...
>

God only knows Utah is the deer capital of the West since then.

Let's not pay attention to results, it's easier

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

deerkiller · Jun 11, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-19 AT 07:49PM (MST)[p]i Will gladly take a Utah deer tag anytime I can get one. The opportunity to hunt means more to me than shooting a giant deer every year

notdonhunting · Jun 11, 2019

I will agree with you on that deerkiller. I just enjoy being out and about I will probably still be out there in the hills during the hunts but it sure would be better if I had a tag in my pocket.

Tikka · Jun 11, 2019

>>"Before $fw cut out 150,000 hunters
>>we might could have made
>>the case that we were
>>a big enough economic force
>>to push something like that,
>>but we aren't now."
>>
>>That statement always cracks me up...
>>lets print tags like the
>>Feds print money... The tag
>>ain't worth a ##### because
>>we have no deer, but
>>hey at least I have
>>a tag in my pocket...
>>
>
>
>God only knows Utah is the
>deer capital of the West
>since then.
>
>Let's not pay attention to results,
>it's easier
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.
Gawd only knows what the herd would be like if we still sold 150,000 deer tags...

well gawd and hoss would know, gawd and hoss know all, just read the posts!!!

hossblur · Jun 12, 2019

>>>"Before $fw cut out 150,000 hunters
>>>we might could have made
>>>the case that we were
>>>a big enough economic force
>>>to push something like that,
>>>but we aren't now."
>>>
>>>That statement always cracks me up...
>>>lets print tags like the
>>>Feds print money... The tag
>>>ain't worth a ##### because
>>>we have no deer, but
>>>hey at least I have
>>>a tag in my pocket...
>>>
>>
>>
>>God only knows Utah is the
>>deer capital of the West
>>since then.
>>
>>Let's not pay attention to results,
>>it's easier
>>
>>"I don't care if the season
>>is closed. Get off your
>>butt and go hunt them"
>>
>>
>>TRISTATE
>>3/11/19
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>Gawd only knows what the herd
>would be like if we
>still sold 150,000 deer tags...
>
>
>well gawd and hoss would know,
>gawd and hoss know all,
> just read the posts!!!
>

Come on tikka, what has gawd done to be listed before me?

Your old enough to remember opening weekend. The schools shut, business closed. Hunters were an economic and political powerhouse.

Now we are an after thought. And we largely did it to ourselves. Not everyone raises kids like you have.

Honestly im fine if my house has a tag. We do ourselves no favor thinking the next generation will be engaged when they sit home so a tiny few can kill big deer.

Now next time I expect to be listed first

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.