Drew Unit 49 MZ-NR-Weston Pass Fire 2018?

C

crcountry

Active Member
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Hello all-

My buddy and I drew MZ tags with 12 NR points. We've been doing NM unit 52 for the past 8 years, and quite frankly I'm looking forward to a hunt that is longer than 5-days!

Does anyone have a link to the last known Weston fire damage/map from 2018? I found a fire map that dates in mid-july last year when it was 15% contained. But I'd love to see a final map that shows all 35-40k acres of damage.

How many acres did it finally burn btw? Did it burn everything, and will it be easy to see from the road/trailheads this year? Or was it spotted throughout the burn area?

Why did they close the burn during the archery/MZ season in 2018 if it was completely out?

Is moisture good this spring?...I hear it has been wet, so should be greened up pretty nicely.

I have a pile of research on likely spots, just a few general questions about the 2018 fire.

Thoughts?
Chris
 
Just a heads up, it is still closed. I spoke with forest service and there is no guarantee it will be open for this fall's seasons. They recommended not applying.
 
If the Unit 49 Wilderness and 2018 burn area were closed, I would suspect a pretty darn good reason why the forest service would close the entire area....especially after a record moisture year in 2019 so far.

Colorado is turning into California
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-19 AT 09:06AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-19 AT 09:05?AM (MST)

U should be able to see the burn on ONX fairly easy. I just looked at it. It's a relatively small area mostly in the lower elevation. I can't see it affecting anything this yr negatively? Says it burned 13k acres. But maybe I'm missing something
 
The burn area is 13K acres on the NE side of the wilderness?it was not a complete burn out, the fire hopped around, left a lot of unburned in the closed area?last year ALL the elk from Weston, 12 mile, Salt Creek, and the peaks migrated into the closed area in august and september, and there was no access to them?during second rifle season I only saw 1 elk outside the closed area?friends that hunted archery season experienced the same...the snow this year was 200% over average, will probably wash out the roads in there during melt... last I talked to the FS they don't plan to open it this year. There were very few elk outside their new safe area. If it is not open before season, I would turn the tag in and try again next year.
 
That is 100% ridiculous. To close off an area for that reason is nuts. If the roads are in bad shape, people can walk in. Can't close an entire area to no hunting. What a joke
 
I just got off the Pike and San Isabel Forest service website. There is NO closure with regard to the 2018 Weston Pass fire. That closure ended 12/31/2018, and no new closure has been listed for Buffalo Peaks wilderness, Pony Park, or that general area west of the hwy....and their list looks fairly comprehensive and updated.
 
I wouldn't put too much faith in taking a FS employees facts over a phone call....they haven't posted it on the website.

Seen that play out a thousand times in the Gila, N. NM, Carson National and other situations. Government/FS employees, who generally answer the phone, don't have the facts many times
 
I'm merely asking for someone to produce a document, or factual evidence, that specifically says that the Weston Pass/Wilderness area of 2018 is still closed as of right now. Here is what the order says:

"This Order will become effective on July 18, 2018 and shall remain in effect until rescinded, or until December 31, 2018, whichever comes first."

"The whichever comes first" is an important ending for the closure.

So....can someone provide a NEW 2019 closure document for that same area? I cant find one. Therefor, its not closed without a new closure order after 12/31/2018?

Where am I going sideways here?

Thanks
 
look at the date the order was signed on the link provided...was just there a couple of weeks ago, signs still posted for closure...will take a picture next time...they didn't plan to get in there until later this month to assess the runoff damage and restoration effort
 
The burn area is CLOSED. They don't have a date set for re-opening it either. The area closed is one the biggest access points to the east side of buffalo peaks. If they don't open it before season, I feel sorry for anyone who burnt their points on 49. There are plenty of other good areas to hunt inm the unit but with the closure it congested alot of the hunters to these other areas. Might as well have hunted OTC. I can't speak got the leadville side of the unit. Burn had 0 effect to the western side of 49.
 
I stand corrected. I called FS # 719-836-2031 and spoke with a ranger who filled me in on a few things:

1.) They are just now assessing the situation and getting timber removal contractors in there to clear the road system. How bad the roads are wasn't known at this time

2.) He agreed that walk-in access during the hunting season could be a decision they go with depending on where they're at in the road clearing process. (How the road situation has anything to do with boot leather is unknown to me.)

My general concern: That they would keep an area closed to walk-in access. The ranger said that they have to deem the area safe and reduce the chance that....get this....that a tree wont fall on someone. I wonder what study the FS can reference that suggests that hikers get killed by falling trees at a higher rate in a post-burn area than a forest that has a greater % of trees that are alive?

If the roads are terrible, then close the roads....not the forest.

He and I did disagree on one topic: that governmental decisions can be laced with motives and personal agendas. I can only say that eliminating foot access, and closing off 13k acres for hunting, basically creating a no-hunting sanctuary, 12-13 months after a spotty fire was contained and burned out, would have the optics of an anti-hunting agenda IMO. And the way Colorado is going, that should be something of concern for all hunters....who would be willing to walk in.
 
Lastly-When trees fall in Carson National Forest across a road, my elk home for the past 8 seasons, there isn't a forest ranger or tree contractor that ever wins the race to remove a downed tree that is blocking the road. A Hunter or camper fires up their chainsaw and the problem is solved in 30-minutes. When the roads above 9k' get rutted up or washed out: guess what....people turn around, find a lower camp spot, fire up their ATV if they have one, walk if they have to, and otherwise get on with their day. Sorry, I cant get over a complete closure that even eliminates walk in access. That smells like rotten fish.
 
It also has to do with the society we have become. 30 years ago, they didn't have to worry about someone suing them when a fire burned tree fell on them. Today, they do. And I do know that unexpected mud slides, etc are always a risk after a burn.

Went to CA to visit my daughter for spring break this year. We were going to hike in to a natural hot springs at Big Sur state park. A fire closed the trail in a couple of years ago. Still not sure when that will open again..

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I don't even know where to begin on mudslides, falling trees, and possible death caused by the FS. This thread, like Colorado, has gone to the twilight zone....just like CA.

I can only say this about CO....it is 5 years away from being CA. Pot, homeless, liberal policies, wolves coming back, unrealistic pension plans, high taxation coming to pay for liberal policies, sanctuary cities, and the list goes on.

Burn my 13 points on a high country mule deer hunt in 2020, and I'm done with Colorado. Montana is next, then possibly even WY. Rich Californian's have abandoned their state for all the right reasons, but when they move, they bring their left wing motives with them....when will they learn?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-19 AT 10:39AM (MST)[p]I have to agree! This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of keeping an area closed basically a yr after the fire! Is this normal in other states??
 
>I don't even know where to
>begin on mudslides, falling trees,
>and possible death caused by
>the FS. This thread, like
>Colorado, has gone to the
>twilight zone....just like CA.
>
>I can only say this about
>CO....it is 5 years away
>from being CA. Pot, homeless,
>liberal policies, wolves coming back,
>unrealistic pension plans, high taxation
>coming to pay for liberal
>policies, sanctuary cities, and the
>list goes on.
>
>Burn my 13 points on a
>high country mule deer hunt
>in 2020, and I'm done
>with Colorado. Montana is next,
>then possibly even WY. Rich
>Californian's have abandoned their state
>for all the right reasons,
>but when they move, they
>bring their left wing motives
>with them....when will they learn?
>


You?re preaching to choir.... I'm a 4th generation native and I picked up and moved north this past month because I couldn't stand what the state I used to love and proud call home turned into...

Coloradoboy
 
Colorado has been known to do this with past fires. Some stay closed for several years. I was told it was for safety. They don't want people getting injured or killed from blow downs. A fire fighter buddy of mine called them "widow makers", half charred trees that could blow over easily in a wind storm.
 
>Colorado has been known to do
>this with past fires. Some
>stay closed for several years.
>I was told it was
>for safety. They don't want
>people getting injured or killed
>from blow downs. A fire
>fighter buddy of mine called
>them "widow makers", half charred
>trees that could blow over
>easily in a wind storm.
>

Well there's nothing really safe about packing into the wilderness anyway but most of us know that going into the endevour.
 
Majority of the burn is not in the "wilderness" area in this particular case, but yes I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately our national forests are used by more than just hunters. Especially in Colorado, and a good number of those people are not the most outdoor savvy!! I dont agree with the rule either, for the record.
 
I am completely sympathetic to your situation. Having dealt with the FS the last few years with outfitter permitting as well as access around burn areas has been a royal pain. My last experience was better in the sense that the FS simply mapped out the limits of the burn and closed only that area- this opened up a ton of critical terrain for a successful ram hunt. Interestingly, I talked with the GW for the area this spring and he said the area burned last fall is now completely open- I haven't seen it first hand but will find out soon enough this summer on another ram scouting trip. What surprises me is that this area is supposedly already open, while your area of interest is still closed. Why the disparity?

Cheers- Dave
 
I received (2) emails from: one of the senior rangers, and the GS-14 Project manager for the entire zone/district. I too believe, at this point, that there is a very high likelihood that the Weston Park fire/burn area will be open with plenty of time before the archery seasons start.
 
was just over there, probably not going to happen...heavy rains and snow high runoff is flooding the burn area and below...lots of culverts and crossing to repair,,,lots of loose soil around the burnt trees. saw the same happen a few years ago, made some areas impassable. saw elk on the Buena Vista side of the unit, 4 mile area and in chub park
 
Wow....Very exciting news. This could be a level playing field, and a fun year in unit 49 this season. Had to dial the # myself and hear the news....just to double check
719-836-2031 Buffalo Springs and burn area closures are lifted
 

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