New 5 year season structure

txhunter58 · Jul 8, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-19 AT 06:05AM (MST)[p]https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2019/July/Item.16-BGSS.Final.Recs-July.2019.PWC.pdf

Couple of interesting changes:

New archery season is now Sept 2-30 every year
Status Quo on first rifle. NO early rifle season
Shorter 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons with longer breaks between them
Significantly later 3rd and 4th rifle seasons
Second and 4th rifle open on a Wednesday
Deer hunters who want to hunt later should be glad about this. The 4th rifle is as much as 8 days later than current seasons.

It does appear that the CPW has declared war on big bucks though. In the name of CWD control, they have increased the numbers of buck tags in many areas. And now they have moved the 3rd season back to almost where the 4th has been and moved the 4th back a week. That should equal more big bucks taken. In the long run, not sure that is a good thing

It should be noted that these are not approved yet, just the final recommendations, but will prob be rubber stamped in the end.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

DeerHunter53 · Jul 9, 2019

I noticed a late season Pronghorn hunt until January 31st each year? What's up with that that is the latest antelope hunt I have seen

fallguy · Jul 9, 2019

Thanks for the link.

I would expect cutting 2nd and 3rd to one weekend will get some resistance as will Wednesday openers for 2nd and 4th. Neither of these changes help youth hunter recruitment.

It will be interesting to see the demand for 3rd season deer tags at these later dates. Also 4th is going to overlap Thanksgiving some years.

Outfitters that typically run two hunts 2nd and 3rd won't be able to that in a 7 day season.

Later high country deer dates are going to make that hunt tougher.

txhunter58 · Jul 9, 2019

There is no change in the high country deer hunts. Most of them have been starting the second Saturday for several years already. A few still start the first Saturday

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

fallguy · Jul 9, 2019

High country deer was Sept 1-9 in 2018.

fallguy · Jul 9, 2019

>There is no change in the
>high country deer hunts. Most
>of them have been starting
>the second Saturday for several
>years already. A few still
>start the first Saturday
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

I see that there were two sets of high country dates. Looks like the units that used to be earlier now join in on the late dates.

txhunter58 · Jul 9, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-19 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]I don't think that is changing. Look at the sentence before it gives actual dates. It states some will start on first Saturday = status quo = no change

But it is confusing. It may mean that the season can start on the first Saturday as long as that is not Labor Day weekend. That sounds like what it is saying. One of the years it starts on the 6th

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

goforbroke · Jul 9, 2019

Archery dates with the Sept 2-30 will be nice for elk but not as good for deer.

ColoradoOak · Jul 9, 2019

This is it, folks. The commission will be voting on these changes on July 18. Your last chance to comment is by sending an email to the commission at [email protected]

Note that they will also be voting to make it a 7-year season structure rather than 5 years (7 years of season dates provided). This option was discussed at the last commission meeting.

fallguy · Jul 9, 2019

Would it be an accurate assumption that once it gets this far along, the odds of changing anything are close to zero?

ColoradoOak · Jul 9, 2019

>Would it be an accurate assumption
>that once it gets this
>far along, the odds of
>changing anything are close to
>zero?

It would be more accurate to say that once people assume the odds are close to zero and choose to do nothing, then the odds of changing anything are close to zero.

fallguy · Jul 9, 2019

CO oak your response reminds me of when my 12 year old son didn't want to climb the mountain to go after a gobbler and he asked what are the odds if we climb that mountain that we'll get him? I said I didn't know but I knew the odds if we didn't climb the mountain.

txhunter58 · Jul 9, 2019

The CBA is making a big push to try and still push for some changes. Mainly Sept 1st start (2nd seems weird to me) and Start the archery deer season the last weekend in August. As stated, never hurts to try

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

RevXP_09 · Jul 9, 2019

>LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-19
>AT 06:05?AM (MST)
>
>https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2019/July/Item.16-BGSS.Final.Recs-July.2019.PWC.pdf
>
>
>Couple of interesting changes:
>
>New archery season is now Sept
>2-30 every year
>Status Quo on first rifle. NO
>early rifle season
>Shorter 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons
>with longer breaks between them
>
>Significantly later 3rd and 4th rifle
>seasons

>Second and 4th rifle open on
>a Wednesday
>Deer hunters who want to hunt
>later should be glad about
>this. The 4th rifle is
>as much as 8 days
>later than current seasons.
>
>It does appear that the CPW
>has declared war on big
>bucks though. In the name
>of CWD control, they have
>increased the numbers of buck
>tags in many areas. And
>now they have moved the
>3rd season back to almost
>where the 4th has been
>and moved the 4th back
>a week. That should equal
>more big bucks taken. In
>the long run, not sure
>that is a good thing
>
>
>
>It should be noted that these
>are not approved yet, just
>the final recommendations, but will
>prob be rubber stamped in
>the end.
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

If you look at the 2010-2014 and 2015-2019 5 year structures it doesn't list the early rifle elk seasons on them either. So I wouldn't say there's NO early rifle. Usually the only place I can find the early rifle elk season dates is in the proclamation, I'm not sure why they don't list them in the season structure plan. Maybe it's because there's so few early rifle elk season.

DW · Jul 9, 2019

>>LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-19
>>AT 06:05?AM (MST)
>>
>>https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2019/July/Item.16-BGSS.Final.Recs-July.2019.PWC.pdf
>>
>>
>>Couple of interesting changes:
>>
>>New archery season is now Sept
>>2-30 every year
>>Status Quo on first rifle. NO
>>early rifle season
>>Shorter 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons
>>with longer breaks between them
>>
>>Significantly later 3rd and 4th rifle
>>seasons
>
>
>>Second and 4th rifle open on
>>a Wednesday
>>Deer hunters who want to hunt
>>later should be glad about
>>this. The 4th rifle is
>>as much as 8 days
>>later than current seasons.
>>
>>It does appear that the CPW
>>has declared war on big
>>bucks though. In the name
>>of CWD control, they have
>>increased the numbers of buck
>>tags in many areas. And
>>now they have moved the
>>3rd season back to almost
>>where the 4th has been
>>and moved the 4th back
>>a week. That should equal
>>more big bucks taken. In
>>the long run, not sure
>>that is a good thing
>>
>>
>>
>>It should be noted that these
>>are not approved yet, just
>>the final recommendations, but will
>>prob be rubber stamped in
>>the end.
>>
>>txhunter58
>>
>>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>>I am)
>
>
>If you look at the 2010-2014
>and 2015-2019 5 year structures
>it doesn't list the early
>rifle elk seasons on them
>either. So I wouldn't say
>there's NO early rifle. Usually
>the only place I can
>find the early rifle elk
>season dates is in the
>proclamation, I'm not sure why
>they don't list them in
>the season structure plan.
>Maybe it's because there's so
>few early rifle elk season.
>

I think the boys are referring to early season high country buck seasons.

#livelikezac

RevXP_09 · Jul 9, 2019

Ya. I misunderstood you and thought you were saying no early rifle elk hunts.

txhunter58 · Jul 9, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-19 AT 02:22PM (MST)[p]No I wasn?t actually.

In the original 5 year plan proposal, they were considering an early rifle ELK season in some OTC units. Like October 1-5. Yes there are some early rifle seasons in some select limited units already, but this would have been some new additional draw only seasons in select OTC units.

The idea was rightly shot down.

Sorry I wasn?t clear

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

MuleyKiller · Jul 9, 2019

Once they kill off the majority of the mature deer they will not come back. If they keep these dates for the 7 years like they are wanting Colorado will be as bad as Utah. Really a bad plan in the name of CWD??

elkmo41 · Jul 9, 2019

Not good if you want quality bucks.

elkmo41 · Jul 9, 2019

The last state with a chance to hunt quality bucks even in lower tier units just got flushed, if tag numbers were to drop maybe a chance...but that ship has sailed.

nripepi · Jul 9, 2019

This makes no sense for hunter recruitment starting 2nd season on a Wednesday and only 1 weekend? Then 3rd ends on a Friday....at least let it go one more day for youth! This is just going to make things more crowded out there.

ColoradoOak · Jul 9, 2019

Write your emails!

BluffGruff · Jul 9, 2019

I keep asking for totally limited archery elk. I want a decent early season experience in the years I draw instead of the current camo tsunami.

elks96 · Jul 10, 2019

>I keep asking for totally limited
>archery elk. I want a
>decent early season experience in
>the years I draw instead
>of the current camo tsunami.
>

Just because they make it limited does not mean there will be fewer hunters. Sorry but OTC elk with a month long season is great, you have so many choices that if you can not find a place to hunt without other hunters you are not looking hard enough. I have hunted OTC Colorado elk for over 20 years now and ca honestly say that I often see less than 10 people a year in the woods off the trail and parking areas.

Why would you want to limit your opportunity?

Also note that archer is the only growing sector in hunting, and is also seeing the highest numbers for new hunter recruitment, youth and female. Why would we want to cut that?

fullthrottle · Jul 10, 2019

Is there anybody actually for this idea??? To bad. Utah does it's fair share of piss poor management, but this garbage Colorado is trying to pull is next level stupid.

elks96 · Jul 10, 2019

> Is there anybody actually for
>this idea??? To bad. Utah
>does it's fair share of
>piss poor management, but this
>garbage Colorado is trying to
>pull is next level stupid.
>

Sadly there are groups on Facebook that fail to see anything wrong with it. I was called an idiot for thinking that the quality of bucks would change with the later season dates and the recent increases in 4th season tags.

Many do not see the big deal with a shorter archery season, many assume that going limited means less hunters. Many fail to realize that going all limited will increase point creep across the board, I could go on... Most are selfish and only consider themselves. I had one guy tell me today that serious hunters hunt during the week, and that since I hunt weekends and I expect my kids to be in school, that I was not a serious hunter...

BluffGruff · Jul 10, 2019

> Is there anybody actually for
>this idea??? To bad. Utah
>does it's fair share of
>piss poor management, but this
>garbage Colorado is trying to
>pull is next level stupid.
>

Just saying something is stupid doesn't make it true.

Big segment of hunters want limited archery elk.

4th season buck deer seasons only exists in units over objective for buck:doe ratios, so those will go away if the ratios drop. Deer production is best with a lower buck:doe ratio anyway, google it. Different opinions out there, and I understand that, but I disagree that late seasons like the ones proposed automatically mean the end of big Colorado bucks.

DW · Jul 10, 2019

>4th season buck deer seasons only
>exists in units over objective
>for buck:doe ratios, so those
>will go away if the
>ratios drop.

Where did you locate this nugget of wisdom?

#livelikezac

fullthrottle · Jul 10, 2019

Ya, my bad. I'm sure the later dates won't have an impact on mature buck numbers... after all, according to ?google? with the nice increase in fawn recruitment, mature buck numbers should flourish. Sweet!

BluffGruff · Jul 10, 2019

>
>>4th season buck deer seasons only
>>exists in units over objective
>>for buck:doe ratios, so those
>>will go away if the
>>ratios drop.
>
>
>Where did you locate this nugget
>of wisdom?
>
>#livelikezac

It's in most of the DAU management plans.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/DAU/Deer/D8DAUPlan_StateBridge2009.pdf

Alternative 1: 22-26 bucks:100 does:
This alternative would reduce the current observed sex ratio by 14%. Buck licenses
available in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons would be increased (until the lower objective is
attained, at which time the 4th season buck hunt would be eliminated).

elkmo41 · Jul 11, 2019

1. Increasing late season buck tags.
2. Later hunting dates when ALL bucks are more vulnerable.
3. Deceasing deer numbers for most units.

Equals crap units after several seasons, got plenty of this in other states already.

DW · Jul 11, 2019

>>
>>>4th season buck deer seasons only
>>>exists in units over objective
>>>for buck:doe ratios, so those
>>>will go away if the
>>>ratios drop.
>>
>>
>>Where did you locate this nugget
>>of wisdom?
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>It's in most of the DAU
>management plans.
>
>https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/DAU/Deer/D8DAUPlan_StateBridge2009.pdf
>
>Alternative 1: 22-26 bucks:100 does:
>This alternative would reduce the current
>observed sex ratio by 14%.
>Buck licenses
>available in the 2nd, 3rd, and
>4th seasons would be increased
>(until the lower objective is
>
>attained, at which time the 4th
>season buck hunt would be
>eliminated).

That's a 10yr old document from a study done prior to that.

#livelikezac

The_Coloradoboy · Jul 11, 2019

Makes me want to pull my hair out....

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Jul 11, 2019

Are you serious BluffGruff?

BluffGruff · Jul 11, 2019

>>>
>>>>4th season buck deer seasons only
>>>>exists in units over objective
>>>>for buck:doe ratios, so those
>>>>will go away if the
>>>>ratios drop.
>>>
>>>
>>>Where did you locate this nugget
>>>of wisdom?
>>>
>>>#livelikezac
>>
>>It's in most of the DAU
>>management plans.
>>
>>https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/DAU/Deer/D8DAUPlan_StateBridge2009.pdf
>>
>>Alternative 1: 22-26 bucks:100 does:
>>This alternative would reduce the current
>>observed sex ratio by 14%.
>>Buck licenses
>>available in the 2nd, 3rd, and
>>4th seasons would be increased
>>(until the lower objective is
>>
>>attained, at which time the 4th
>>season buck hunt would be
>>eliminated).
>
>That's a 10yr old document from
>a study done prior to
>that.
>
>
>#livelikezac

The point is the policy, based on yearly surveys, is still in place.

BluffGruff · Jul 11, 2019

>Are you serious BluffGruff?

Hard to know without knowing what you're referring to. Most people shoot 1.5-3.5 year old bucks every year, with very few older bucks available, so why would this change anything?

fullthrottle · Jul 12, 2019

Yep, and most guys currently hunt from mid October to the first week of November. Why do you think the 4th season tags are so popular? With the new season structure 3rd season just became the new 4th season. Think about that for a minute. So the whole point you made about them only allowing 4th season hunts in units that are over objective doesn't mean jack squat, when 3rd season dates are where 4th season dates used to be. Hey to each there own, but hunting on a 3rd season tag until mid November is going to effect the mature buck population. I don't care how you spin it.

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Jul 12, 2019

I was referring to you being serious about rifle rut hunts having no effect on quality or quantity of bucks

DW · Jul 12, 2019

>>>>
>>>>>4th season buck deer seasons only
>>>>>exists in units over objective
>>>>>for buck:doe ratios, so those
>>>>>will go away if the
>>>>>ratios drop.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Where did you locate this nugget
>>>>of wisdom?
>>>>
>>>>#livelikezac
>>>
>>>It's in most of the DAU
>>>management plans.
>>>
>>>https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/DAU/Deer/D8DAUPlan_StateBridge2009.pdf
>>>
>>>Alternative 1: 22-26 bucks:100 does:
>>>This alternative would reduce the current
>>>observed sex ratio by 14%.
>>>Buck licenses
>>>available in the 2nd, 3rd, and
>>>4th seasons would be increased
>>>(until the lower objective is
>>>
>>>attained, at which time the 4th
>>>season buck hunt would be
>>>eliminated).
>>
>>That's a 10yr old document from
>>a study done prior to
>>that.
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>The point is the policy, based
>on yearly surveys, is
>still in place.

The new policy is to dramatically reduce the number of mature bucks aa stated on CP&W'S website.

#livelikezac

BluffGruff · Jul 12, 2019

I'm not all gloom and doom. You can think what you want, but I bet the experience is better for more people over the next 7 years.

lostinOregon · Jul 12, 2019

>I'm not all gloom and doom.
>You can think what you
>want, but I bet the
>experience is better for more
>people over the next 7
>years.

Then what?

Rich

elks96 · Jul 12, 2019

Will be better? How is your hunting better if you get fewer days?

How is it better if you can only take your kids out 1 weekend instead of 2?

How is it better that the same number of hunters are forced to hunt fewer days and increase crowding vs. spreading them out over more days?

How will mule deer hunting on Colorado when we kill all the big bucks off with the late season rut hunts?

How will it be better for archery to have our season get shorter?

How is it better for archery mule
Deer hunters to be forced back to a start date after rifle hunters already get first crack at high country?

There is not a single thing that makes the new season structure better for the resource, the only people really bennefiiting are those who will have 3rd and 4th tags deer tags the next 2 years... But their benefit will
Cost all of us the quality of deer we have come to expect in Co!

BluffGruff · Jul 12, 2019

>Will be better? How is your
>hunting better if you get
>fewer days?
>
>How is it better if you
>can only take your kids
>out 1 weekend instead of
>2?
>
>How is it better that the
>same number of hunters are
>forced to hunt fewer days
>and increase crowding vs. spreading
>them out over more days?
>
>
>How will mule deer hunting on
>Colorado when we kill all
>the big bucks off with
>the late season rut hunts?
>
>
>How will it be better for
>archery to have our season
>get shorter?
>
>How is it better for archery
>mule
>Deer hunters to be forced back
>to a start date after
>rifle hunters already get first
>crack at high country?
>
>There is not a single thing
>that makes the new season
>structure better for the resource,
>the only people really bennefiiting
>are those who will have
>3rd and 4th tags deer
>tags the next 2
>years... But their benefit will
>
>Cost all of us the quality
>of deer we have come
>to expect in Co!

How's that slippery slope treating you?

nmbighorn · Jul 12, 2019

This is exactly what these non-hunting groups want hunters to do: DESTROY the Deer and Elk herds themselves, so that it wont be blamed on them for introducing WOLVES!!!

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Jul 13, 2019

Hey bluff you still haven't answered the question. Do you think all these late season hunts will not have an adverse effect on the quality and quantity of big bucks? I'm going to laugh when in a couple years you are on here griping about deer quality.

jims · Jul 13, 2019

It's kindof amazing that the CPW would want to switch things up when the quality and numbers of Colo muledeer across the state is the best in the US? It only goes to reason that quality will likely decline with later season dates. It's nice having a couple extra days to chase bucks around...like others have mentioned it will only cause greater hunting pressure with shorter seasons. From everything I've seen and heard....stick with status quo!

txhunter58 · Jul 13, 2019

Problem is it is almost a done deal.
The alternatives were considered and this was the final recommendation. Unless there is a loud outcry in mass this will be rubber stamped, supposedly at a CPW meeting next week in Telluride

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

ColoradoOak · Jul 13, 2019

I spoke at length with a CPW employee yesterday who is in charge of setting license numbers for his little slice of Colorado. He said that he can't believe "what a s%@#show" the 5-year season structure process has been and what the Commission is proposing as final recommendations. He acknowledged the loss of opportunity for rifle hunters by shortening the combined seasons to 7 days or less, but also pointed out that he will be forced to significantly reduce license numbers for 3rd and 4th season (deer, cow elk, 4th season bull elk) due to how late those seasons will now be. The overall loss of rifle hunting opportunity may very well increase archery pressure as there will be unlimited archery OTC elk licenses.

There is still time to send your emails.

txhunter58 · Jul 13, 2019

I know it is tabu to link another website but I think this issue is important enough to breach that. Here is a link about who to email:

https://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=246462&messages=6&state=Co

You can only complain if you tried to do something about it. I just copied those email addresses and sent my thoughts. Pretty easy to do.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

dgrobertsiii · Jul 13, 2019

Send your emails to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

BluffGruff · Jul 13, 2019

>Hey bluff you still haven't answered
>the question. Do you think
>all these late season hunts
>will not have an adverse
>effect on the quality and
>quantity of big bucks? I'm
>going to laugh when in
>a couple years you are
>on here griping about deer
>quality.

What's adverse to you? License numbers will be adjusted regularly to meet population and buck:doe ratio goals.
Also, loss of winter range habitat is the biggest threat to mule deer in Colorado and elsewhere. We may end up in monster deer heaven as fewer young deer get shot and deer live longer because of changes in license quotas. Or we may have no deer as the whole state becomes vacation homes. The point being is that you don't KNOW how this will change things. I SUSPECT that we will see some decline in buck:doe ratios towards established goals in many units, but we may get more productive herds out of this, leading to high populations and actually more bucks in the landscape.

elks96 · Jul 13, 2019

>>Hey bluff you still haven't answered
>>the question. Do you think
>>all these late season hunts
>>will not have an adverse
>>effect on the quality and
>>quantity of big bucks? I'm
>>going to laugh when in
>>a couple years you are
>>on here griping about deer
>>quality.
>
>What's adverse to you? License numbers
>will be adjusted regularly to
>meet population and buck:doe ratio
>goals.
>Also, loss of winter range habitat
>is the biggest threat to
>mule deer in Colorado and
>elsewhere. We may end up
>in monster deer heaven as
>fewer young deer get shot
>and deer live longer because
>of changes in license quotas.
>Or we may have no
>deer as the whole state
>becomes vacation homes. The point
>being is that you don't
>KNOW how this will change
>things. I SUSPECT that we
>will see some decline in
>buck:doe ratios towards established goals
>in many units, but we
>may get more productive herds
>out of this, leading to
>high populations and actually more
>bucks in the landscape.

So how will they adjust? They will be forced to cut tags. But you fail to account for buck quality. Yes buck for ratio might be the same, but age class will not.

So you are looking at an inflation of Points worse than we have ever seen along with more
Crowding and fewer big deer...

txhunter58 · Jul 13, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jul-14-19 AT 03:57AM (MST)[p]So what you are saying bluff is that when buck numbers plummet, they just reduce the number of tags and everything is good? Less opportunity is OK?

And we know that even in the face of low numbers of animals the CPW is slow to reduce tags because that means less money to them.

Not sure how anyone could think the change to having both 3rd and 4th seasons in the rut won't cause more mature bucks to get killed.

And loss of winter habitat is a whole other can of worms. Because of that, we have to work harder in others areas to preserve what we have.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

Buffs35 · Jul 14, 2019

Decreased tags for late rifle, increase point creep, which leads to overcrowding for archery. Less opportunity.

Fun times. Might be time to look for 160 contiguous of cheap land, just so i can put in for landowner tags as well.

BluffGruff · Jul 14, 2019

I stand by my assertion that most people won't be able to tell or prove things are worse, they will just complain about it.

ColoradoOak · Jul 15, 2019

The justification given by the Commission for shortening the rifle seasons and moving them to as late as the weekend after Thanksgiving: "sportsmen ranked longer breaks between rifle seasons as a high priority."

Consequences of the proposed alternative:

Reduced days of hunting opportunity (only 1 weekend for youth and those without vacation).

Reduced hunting opportunity due to reduced license quotas in later rifle seasons because of animal vulnerability.

Accelerated preference point creep due to reduced license quotas.

Exacerbation of archery crowding due to unlimited over-the-counter licenses for 29 day season.

Reduced high value landowner vouchers for late rifle seasons, pressure to increase landowner quota.

Reduced nonresident opportunity will increase pressure from Colorado outfitters to increase NR quotas for limited licenses (in 2015 they asked for 50/50 split or straight preference point draw with no guaranteed resident allocation).

DW · Jul 17, 2019

The only way a longer break between rifle seasons will get elk off private and back on public is if there's an orange rifle touting army on private property during that break. I hate change. Ya, I know, I just yelled "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

#livelikezac

fallguy · Jul 18, 2019

Will they vote on 5 year season structure today, tomorrow or at another time?

DW · Jul 18, 2019

Another time. Still open to public comment.

#livelikezac

fallguy · Jul 18, 2019

Got it. I see it's on the agenda for discussion today at 1:00 PM. It's nice to be able to listen to it live.

oljc · Jul 18, 2019

This is a bad bad idea,good for short term, but in the long run this will put way too much pressure on Mature bucks,a few guys will smile for awhile then they will see the affects years later when there are only spindly 20 to 24'' dinks running around.Too bad Colorado DOW just can't leave it alone, every time you turn around they screw something else up!!!!!

fullthrottle · Jul 18, 2019

Seriously, why fix something that isn't broke. The current system is great, and the deer hunting is pretty dang good. Also Colorado has a good mix of opportunity hunts, and quality hunts for deer. If they could get a 5 or 6 year string of good winters the deer hunting would be exceptional. The idea of killing more mature bucks in the name of CWD is the biggest crock ever. Give nature a chance to work things out, don't wipe them out in hopes to save the herd. The herd doesn't need saving. CWD has been around forever, it's not like areas with CWD are being wiped out. In reality the structure of the herd probably hasn't changed much at all due to CWD. Leave it alone.

fallguy · Jul 19, 2019

Did anyone listen in on the vote this morning? There was so much back and forth I kinda got lost. I know they approved the largest break between 1st and 2nd and also kept 2nd at 9 days. What I didn't get was how long is the break between 2nd and 3rd and is 3rd 9 days or 7?

ColoradoOak · Jul 19, 2019

This morning the Commission approved a new rifle season structure for deer and elk west of I-25. Here's what it looks like with 2020 dates:

5 day first rifle elk only, starting first Saturday after Oct. 9: Oct. 10-14, 2020

9 day second combined deer and elk starting on Saturday 14 days after start of 1st: Oct. 24-Nov. 1, 2020

7 day third combined deer and elk starting on Saturday 14 days after start of 2nd: Nov. 7-13, 2020

5 day fourth combined deer and elk starting on Wednesday 11 days after start of 3rd: Nov. 18-22, 2020

fallguy · Jul 19, 2019

Thanks CO Oak.

BLOK2003 · Jul 19, 2019

The bigger quality Muley bucks are gonna get hammered on that 4th season. Will be awesome rut hunting for big bucks for a few years. But after a few years the negative effects will be less mature bucks. Hate to see what the quality of Mule deer will be like 5-7 years down the road.

txhunter58 · Jul 19, 2019

So, to be clear, the recommendation had been to start the second rifle season on Wednesday 7 days after the 1st rifle ends, but they approved starting it 10 days after first ends and on a Saturday?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

ColoradoOak · Jul 19, 2019

Second season will start on a Saturday and be 9 days long specifically so it includes 2 weekends.

txhunter58 · Jul 19, 2019

Wow. Every day later in November means more rutting bucks, so there will definitely be more mature bucks killed in the next few years and then fewer in the following years

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

MrDoe · Jul 19, 2019

Still shaking my head. In 2021 3rd season will be 11/13-19th, 4th will be 11/24-28th.

fallguy · Jul 19, 2019

>Still shaking my head. In 2021
>3rd season will be 11/13-19th,
>4th will be 11/24-28th.

And 2nd ends Nov 7. The end of 2nd could be good and they'll knock down a lot of big bucks in 3rd. Should be interesting to see point creep for 3rd vs 4th. Even though the 4th season dates are excellent, less big bucks will be available when 4th rolls around due to the decent 2nd season dates and really good 3rd season dates. No matter how you look at it, quality is going to suffer after a few years.

txhunter58 · Jul 20, 2019

The real winners out of this look to be 2nd and 3rd season rifle hunters. You could say that 4th season will still be a great season, and it will, if you want to kill "a" buck. But as stated, in a few years, most of what will be left by then will be average bucks. I think the points needed for 3rd will jump

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

walltenthunter · Jul 20, 2019

I testified in the Telluride CP&W Commission meeting that with the 3rd and 4th west slope deer seasons now being pushed later into November CP&W would need move more of these western slope buck tags into the 2nd season and lower the 4th season buck tags so as to not have undue pressure on the mature bucks in the peak of the November rut. Also, noted in the Alternatives was the 4th season being'optional'. An interesting feature. It may well not mean they won't have 4th seasons but my thought is it could indeed have choice of 4th deer considering DAU or GMU.

I and others also pushed for 2 weekends in the rifle deer seasons of 2nd and 3rd, but at least it seems they agreed to leave two weekends open for the 2nd season. Will help youth and folks needing go back to work M-F. The issue of changing season lengths of rifle seasons was due to trying create longer breaks between these seasons.

walltenthunter · Jul 20, 2019

Correction. Testified to now with later Nov hunting CP&W should move more buck tags to 2nd and fewer in 3rd.

fullthrottle · Jul 20, 2019

3rd season Nov 13-19th, stop and think about that for a minute... that's a recipe to knock down some big, susceptible bucks. I hate it.

Tomichi · Jul 20, 2019

Bad for deer but worse for cow elk... expect cow tags to decline. What will those cow hunters do? Quit? Hunt OTC bulls.
We have no control of bull to cow ratios with OTC archery and 2 rifle seasons...Deer. we can handel the late dates with tag cuts...But will they? They think they can "cure" CWD by lowering buck to doe and buck age.
They are going to...
Their cure is worse than the disease!!

fullthrottle · Jul 20, 2019

?Their cure is worst than the disease? amen to that!

txhunter58 · Jul 20, 2019

No one will ever use the words "cure cwd" with any management practices. The organism is in the soil and there is no way to ever eliminate it from the environment.

They are trying to slow the spread. But again, I agree that the cure is worse than the disease in this case.....

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

txhunter58 · Jul 21, 2019

Does anyone have a link to what was actually passed. The link I posted above is what was proposed, not what was passed, but it says "finalized"

It still shows second season starting on a wednesday

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

ColoradoOak · Jul 21, 2019

No link yet to what passed, but I posted it above. ???

txhunter58 · Jul 21, 2019

And I am taking your word for it, but on another website, they are discussing the changes like they passed from the recommendations, and if you pull up the link I first posted, it says that they were approved.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

ColoradoOak · Jul 21, 2019

It said ?approved? two weeks ago. They should have updated docs posted early this week.

BenHuntn · Jul 22, 2019

Colorado oak. Where did you read that the regular second rifle season opens on a saturday and runs for 9 days? I read it opens on a wednesday and runs for 7 days. Has there been a change?

Charles Darwin:
Father of the theory of Evolution; Suggested that natural selection is the mechanism by which species evolve over geologic time.

ColoradoOak · Jul 22, 2019

I didn't read it. I listened to them discuss and vote on it at the commission meeting last week. It was not approved until that meeting, which is why I was imploring people to write emails to the commission. You can go on YouTube and listen to the discussion early on during the Friday July 19 session.

newguy · Jul 22, 2019

I cannot believe how dramatic these changes are, this will certainly lead to a significant reduction in tags. I looked through the CPW website but did not see anything that stated the season change was due to CWD, (could have missed it) was this discussed in the meetings? Is the goal to reduce mature bucks? I have to say that I hate these changes but if professionals feel they need to reduce the number of mature bucks to help slow the spread of the disease I would have to take there word for it, otherwise I think these seasons will significantly reduce opportunity for deer and will probably create more crowding on OTC elk.

Mark

txhunter58 · Jul 23, 2019

"but if professionals feel they need to reduce the number of mature bucks to help slow the spread of the disease I would have to take there word for it"

I disagree. As somewhat of a professional in the CWD arena (a veterinarian who does treat some private deer herds) I would have to say that they really don't know that this will work, they are just hoping.

Might it slow the spread a little: Maybe.

But we are looking at people so desperate, they are willing to try just about anything. Look at the numbers of buck tags from last year and this year. Pretty much an increase across the board. Not sure if it is anywhere on their website, but it has been touted as trying to reduce the speed of spread of CWD. So yes, they think that mature buck travel greater distances in search of Does, but think about that: In CO, much of the breeding is done on winter grounds...??. Probably not gonna travel across a mountain range to breed. So I can't see this helping that much.

In my estimation, their "cure" is worse than the disease (and I HATE CWD) They can't stop the spread of the disease, they MIGHT be able to slow its spread down some, but I think it is too late.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

fallguy · Jul 23, 2019

Considering the importance of the 5 year season structure, I thought CPW would have had an email out by now announcing the news.

elkmo41 · Jul 23, 2019

CWD is the "hot topic" within many state DOW's and they are all implementing strategies. You can google it and read about endless conversations and theories. In my state, they have been testing and if found they bring in piles of corn and shoot as many as possible with snipers and night vision plus issue all the extra tags landowners in the area wants. If your hunting area is in these "hotspots" your SOL.

I hate the whole CWD thing, it's been around since the 60's or 70's and the critters are not extinct. All of sudden it's everywhere now only due to the increased amount of testing being done. So lets kill em all before the CWD does mentality is everywhere.

Assuming the spread is slowed until a cure is found, then what? How is a entire states herd of wild ungulates inoculated?

DW · Jul 23, 2019

>CWD is the "hot topic" within
>many state DOW's and they
>are all implementing strategies.
>You can google it and
>read about endless conversations and
>theories. In my state,
>they have been testing and
>if found they bring in
>piles of corn and shoot
>as many as possible with
>snipers and night vision plus
>issue all the extra tags
>landowners in the area wants.
> If your hunting area
>is in these "hotspots" your
>SOL.
>

They tried that 20yrs ago here in Colorado to no avail. Why eastern states continue to do what we know doesn't work baffles me.

#livelikezac

jims · Jul 23, 2019

I'm not sure if it's true that the CPW is truly issuing more deer tags due to CWD or other reasons (possibly $?).

The CWD excuse is a bunch of hogwash! CWD is such a low % of the total deer population in the hottest areas in Colo. Only a small % of the total deer are mature bucks so it's stupidity pointing a finger at mature bucks....it's totally a bunch of hogwash!!!! If my memory is correct the CPW was estimating that only 4% of the total deer population in hotspots had CWD. If you subdivide the 4% any further there is no basis for pointing a finger at mature bucks! Total nonsense!

Predators take out the sickest deer so I'm not sure why there is any panic! I thought the CPW put this stupidity to rest many years ago when they had sharp shooters shooting mature bucks and totally wiped out the deer population in the supposed hotspots areas in Larimer County.

BluffGruff · Jul 23, 2019

The surveillance data says 20+% of samples tested were positive in many units in colorado. Link to the prevalence tables from the main big game page on CPW site. Units 4, 5, 12, almost 23, 211, the entire south Platte corridor.
Numerous other units greater than 10%, even more than that over the 5% "action plan" level.

txhunter58 · Jul 24, 2019

I do know of 2 guys from where I live in Texas that shot 2 mature (20" plus 4x4s) bucks in CO that appeared healthy. Both tested positive for CWD

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

Bluehair · Jul 24, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 07:03AM (MST)[p]I only know one person who says he has seen a deer with CWD (yeah I know its not a visual thing-thats not the point). His description was graphic though.

I'm lucky to be tucked away down here but this CWD seems to consume a disproportionate amount of concern. Is it really that bad in the northern part of the state? Are there deer stumbling around everywhere?

Not trying to be a smart ass here, just curious what the herd looks like from an average guy perspective.

Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen

DW · Jul 24, 2019

Blue I've lived on the western edge of 87 for nearly 30 years. I studied wildlife biology at Colorado State University. Couldn't even begin to tell you how many days over that time that I've spent in the "hot zone" that is 9,19,20,191. Killed and eaten plenty of deer from those units testing only one through that time. I've lived through their Mass Slaughter tactics and finally have seen deer start to come back. And now that they've come back they want to whack all the mature bucks. In all that time I've never seen a deer that I could say " that deer has CWD". I've never known someone that had a tested deer come back positive. All those experiences have shaped my opinion that this disease is overhyped, and the mentality of we must do something is the wrong approach.

#livelikezac

ColoradoOak · Jul 24, 2019

The concern about CWD stems in some part from research conducted in WY that showed a drastic decline in a deer population that had high CWD prevalence rate.

https://www.wyofile.com/study-chronic-wasting-disease-kills-19-deer-annually/

CPW convened a CWD advisory group last year when harvest sampling showed that the prevalence rates in some areas of CO were approaching those seen in WY. You can read about it on the website. There is an advisory group tab on the left side.
https://cpw.state.co.us/cwd

DW · Jul 24, 2019

Excellent article on the Wyoming study oak! Haven't gotten thru it all yet but will tonight. 2 takeaways so far, 1: lions were the biggest cause of mortality in the study herd. 2: some genotypes appear to be resistant or at least less susceptible to CWD. Would a mass slaughter eliminate that genotype or at a minimum reduce it thus taking even longer for that CWD resistent genotype to become the dominant genotype in our herds? I'm stil of the thought we just need to let nature run its course on this one, our interference in this process may delay the elimination of the disease in our herds, or worse, eliminate our herds.

#livelikezac

nripepi · Jul 24, 2019

I am not a wildlife biologist and definitely do not know the answer, but if adult bucks have a significantly higher infection rate of CWD than do does and yearling bucks then singling them out and taking them out of the herd should have a positive effect on reducing the number of does that become infected. The easiest way to do that is more buck tags in mid to late November.

Does anyone know how much higher that rate is? I found one study that said 1.4 times higher.

I really don't like the idea of shooting all of the older bucks from a selfish point of view, but I think there is some warrant in discussing this as an option to keep the herds healthier and stop their decline. 19% decline from CWD in the Wyoming herd is alarming for sure. If the infection rate is only 1.4 times higher for older bucks than it is for older does, then this slaughter on older bucks will likely not fix the problem, just slow it down ever so slightly.

Elkduds · Jul 24, 2019

Interesting but not surprising that predators prefer infected deer. Trying to understand the dynamics of infected does giving birth (are their fawns infected, resistant, neither)? What is the long term impact of the very small percentage of resistant genotype, will that genotype repopulate fast enough to sustain herds? Is there a way or a need to protect deer w that resistant genotype from predation/hunting? For instance, is it feasible to captive breed resistant fawns and introduce them to wild herds? Or is that just an expensive way to feed predators?

Watching w interest.

DW · Jul 24, 2019

But what if we kill the dominant bucks who are of the resistant genotype? They lose the opportunity to cover does and produce more deer that are of that resistant genotype. I think anything we do will slow the process of that genotype becoming the majority of deer in our herds and will prolong this disease in our herds.

#livelikezac

txhunter58 · Jul 24, 2019

No one knows if reducing mature bucks will lower the incidence. At this point, it is a theory. Seems a bit much to make drastic changes to test this theory. Drastic meaning a "state-wide" experiment.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

New 5 year season structure

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