ZeroGuideFees.com

But the interesting thing about it is that you have a good idea when you are going to draw. Maybe some people bail and do a late rifle hunt now and know they will be fully guided. Even if you have only been a member for one year you get a 5 day fully guided hunt.
 
I'm sure that they have done the math. it kind of gives you an idea as to draw odds of a really primo hunt are.

The way it reads, a max point deer applicant could go for a sure draw hunt this year and get a fully guided hunt for $350? That can't be right? That might not even buy the gas the guide uses:) If so, it might make for a totally unpredictable draw this year with this and the new 50% max to the top pool nonresident allocation.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-16 AT 09:00AM (MST)[p]Elmer Fudd, I think this is a brilliant business concept for the guides and an attractive option for some hunters. Think about it, if they get 500 hunters signed up at $350 each, that's $175,000 in revenue to cover expenses and make a profit. 1,000 members equals $350,000 revenue. For a hunter who wants a guide but who doesn't want to spend $6,000+, he can burn $350 a year and know that someday he'll get a guided hunt without paying normal guide fees.

As for me, I'm doing my AZ antelope hunt by myself this year and if I want to go guided on any future AZ hunts, I'll pay A3 the tab instead of spending $350 a year for an eventual 'zero guide fee' hunt.
 
Spoke to Travis several times before signing up during the elk draw earlier this year. I had only 1 point - NR Hunter Safety Point - at the time. Now I have two points! I also thought it was too good to be true, but they had run the actuaries, and seem to have a good business model. It only takes 18 NR's to cover one $6,000 hunt.

I studied the draw reports, and for the type of hunt I'm shooting for, it makes sense. I'm not buying points 20 years for a shot at the biggest elk in AZ, but hoping for something I could draw in 4-5 years, and a chance at a decent hunt, and decent elk - say 300+.

One thing I'm not sure I studied enough were points required for all the units they guide in. I.E. what if I'm thinking of a unit they don't guide in? Plus, the new draw process changes all the odds anyway. And for somebody with only 2 points, that's a good thing.

I figure even if it takes me 10 years, I get a half-price elk hunt. And I can hide $350 a year in my hunting budget...the wife might notice a $6,000 charge!!
 
Interesting business concept for sure.

Is this just for non-residents only?

Curious..

Don Martin
AWO
 
Very unique for sure ! At least they are thinking outside the box and have initiated something different than anything else out there . I've created a plan thats even better ;) !!!!
 
I signed up several months ago , sitting on 15 points for deer, goats and sheep. I also spoke with Travis several times on the phone and he seemed realiable and honest. My concern is their requirement to list your application units and the website not allowing changes in what you actually apply for, hopefully they don't shaft you if you change the actual application and it doesn't match exactly how you input that info into their website .
 
>I signed up several months ago
>, sitting on 15 points
>for deer, goats and sheep.
>I also spoke with Travis
>several times on the phone
>and he seemed realiable and
>honest. My concern is their
>requirement to list your application
>units and the website not
>allowing changes in what you
>actually apply for, hopefully they
>don't shaft you if you
>change the actual application and
>it doesn't match exactly how
>you input that info into
>their website .

The available units are tied to your points.
 
Thanks Wapati, didn't know that. My concern centers around the issue of my initial enrollment into ZGF as I plugged in Muzzy deer hunts then ( thinking it wasn't a big deal in ZGF application ) but changed my mind when I finally applied to late rifle hunt. Same Strip/ Kaibab units but not exactly the same dates etc. as I put down when signing up. just a bit of unrest in that decision as to how Travis handles those inconsistencies. Hope it doesn't disqualify me should I luck out.
 
Thanks Wapati, didn't know that. My concern centers around the issue of my initial enrollment into ZGF as I plugged in Muzzy deer hunts then ( thinking it wasn't a big deal in ZGF application ) but changed my mind when I finally applied to late rifle hunt. Same Strip/ Kaibab units but not exactly the same dates etc. as I put down when signing up. just a bit of unrest in that decision as to how Travis handles those inconsistencies. Hope it doesn't disqualify me should I luck out.
 
I understood the ZGF application had to match the AZG&F application. But I'm just buying points this year.
 
Well I'm hoping someone from ZGF chimes in here. I would have major issues if the hunts I plug into there website in March can't be amended before actual application deadline in June . I went to their website days before actually submitting my application to see if I could change that information but didn't see a way to do it. My hope is that any unit they list as having guide services will work should I be fortunate enough to pull a tag .
 
Some of the best guides around in this outfit. Great deal for a non res that wants to stick with it and eventually hunt.............BULL
 
I suppose if you broke the contract they would not be obligate to guide you. I would definitely call them prior to the draw to update them and make sure the dates will work
 
What happens when they over draw and don't have the funds to pay their guides? Seems like a pyramid scheme to me. They will probably get rich quick but I don't see this being sustainable for the long haul.
 
It's a non-issue for 2016 as I struck out ( sitting at 16 pp next year) I'll be in line next year and make sure I stay within ZGF guidelines. Thx Guys
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-16 AT 05:25PM (MST)[p]>I signed up several months ago
>, sitting on 15 points
>for deer, goats and sheep.
>I also spoke with Travis
>several times on the phone
>and he seemed realiable and
>honest. My concern is their
>requirement to list your application
>units and the website not
>allowing changes in what you
>actually apply for, hopefully they
>don't shaft you if you
>change the actual application and
>it doesn't match exactly how
>you input that info into
>their website .

Ask Travis about how his client shot a doe on the strip and they drug it into the bushes. Real honest guy
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-16 AT 09:40PM (MST)[p]LOL! I don't think I would include a picture in my advertising of a bull that ended up being confiscated by AZGFD. Especially after the hunter paid $200,000+ for the tag and subsequently lost his hunting privileges in every western state for 5 years because of the incident. Kinda tells me all I need to know about the scheme...Isn't there another bull they could have used?
 
Sounds about right! The promo DVDs they send out to tag holders have interesting stuff in them. Like a few years ago when they shot a doe and tried to edit it out. However in the original video you can hear the guide telling him to shoot from the truck and then to turn off the camera because of the doe.
 
I also like the promo dvds for the az strip. A couple years ago they had pictures of bucks available to hunt and most of them were killed the year before.
 
What ever happened to DIY in AZ? Hunting is and has been an individual challenge to accomplish something significant. That's the respect of hunting. Its personal to outwit a buck or bull. But Thank God its a free country and we can still do what we want.
It's just that there are to many lottery winners killing hundreds of GIANT bulls and bucks that they paid to play. Most of us work hard just to see our scouted bull go down to a client who just pulled a trigger. There are a few legitimate reasons for a guide. But AZ is country club hunting compared to the rugged mts of Colorado. Most of us can do it yourself here in AZ where its relatively flat and roads are everywhere.
It would be nice to see the 'public opinion pendulum' swing back the other way, when guides were the exception, not the rule on the Strip/Kaibab or any of the trophy elk units in AZ...
 
+1... it's like hiring a prostitute then bragging about the pretty women you've had.

Hard to understand a guy paying big $$$ and about 10 guys looking for his elk then the client huffs and puffs his way to the shooting spot, is told where the critter is and where to aim then told ...not yet wait for him to turn....ok shoot.... you missed shoot again, shoot again. Then the big pic of everyone sitting around the downed elk....smile big and hugging......What a hunt.
 
Totally understand where you guys are coming from , I would normally be chiming in , in support. However in the situation I'm in being a NR and sitting on 16 points I choose to sign up. Don't know the units and knowing that the Monster Strip bucks are hard to find , my thinking is that if I can draw in the next couple of years my shot at bettering my best buck to date increases expodentualy for a cost of 1k. . Trust me I'm not a guided Hunter normally . Who knows ...I may lick my wounds and opt out next year.
 
ServHim - I do understand your point of view too. Its nice to hear that you're inclined not to hire a guide in most cases. Being out of state is harder to scout (but still can be done). I have hunted Utah, Colorado and have driven way up to Wyoming. Doing a lot of map scouting and talking to land owners and locals helped me and my family shoot some great deer. It can be done. You can do that here in AZ too without paying $4-5 grand to a guide. AND your friends will look up to you for not putting on a leash and letting other people lead you around while they hunt for you, for money. Hunting is personal. The men of past generations embraced that challenge. Our generation of men have forgotten how to be men in so many areas of society. This is becoming another.

Someone once said "If you don't have the way and the means to do something... wait until you do" Out of state hunting included.
 
That's too bad about your friend's hunt. Must be tough to wait so long for disappointment. It won't make him feel better right now but I bet in a few years he will feel extremely lucky to have gotten out of this scheme early. Anyone looking at this objectively will probably determine it is an advance fee/ponzi type scheme. The guys running it appear to be playing with fire already. The fact that it crosses state lines by mostly targeting non residents, if it turns ugly in a few years, makes it a federal crime. Kind of ironic how hunters are such easy prey!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-16 AT 04:46PM (MST)[p]Must be tough to wait that long to hunt AZ and then be disappointed when it's over. By the way what kind of bull did he take?
JD
 
Sorry for the delay to the response. The answer to your question is yes. You will have the ability to change anything in your profile before the deadline up until approximately 14 day before the hunt. Keep in mind our platforms are always changing and giving you more information and choices however being limited on time being a full time outfitter that don't happen nearly as fast as we would like. Before the elk draw in 2017 all members will have the option to change any profile or unit choices they want. Thanks Travis McClendon
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-16 AT 07:20PM (MST)[p]I normally do not respond to post online but felt it necessary to explain the situation and let the viewers decide what they will.
Believe me we also feel very bad for the hunter and can understand why he would be so upset. With a little hard work Arizona Elk Outfitters had found a giant bull that was perfect for this particular ZGF client. The second day of the hunt the bull came in right before dark and the hunter elected not to shoot because he felt the angle wasn't right and was not comfortable with the shot. So the next day the hunter went back to the spot at 2:00 in the afternoon around 3:00 another bull came in and the hunter (who was be himself) elected to shoot the bull, instead of waiting on the bigger bull. After the adrenaline was over and the reality sunk in that this bull wasn't quite what the hunter thought it was he became more emotional about the hunt. The big bull was killed the next day with another hunter making the original hunter more upset about the whole situation. I understand how he feels because I too have shot on impulse and have had to live with my decision. I believe that the 3rd party comments are unfair at best. The reality is the hunter chose to shoot the bull and for the most part I think he is ok with that. He gave Zero Guide Fees positive comment on his facebook page and here is the quote ("Arizona is in the books. I was very fortunate to take a nice bull. I passed a few smaller and didn't get a good shot opportunity on a huge one but I am very happy with the one I got. I want to thank the outfitter Zero Guide Fees, and especially Wilderness Archery and Gold Tip for all your support".) The reality is the hunter shot a good bull but not as good as the one we had him wanting to shoot and feels upset that he did so. When that happens other little immaterial things become magnified and what wasn?t a big deal all of a sudden become an issue. I am very proud of the extra work David did to make this opportunity happen. David is one of the best elk hunters and guides I know and when it comes to put his clients on big bulls he has done so over & over again. Make no mistake about Zero Guide Fees it is no scheme. We are taking 21 members on fully guided hunts this year with no guide fees unless the choose to add more days above their benefit. This allows hunters the opportunity to hunt with an outfitter that otherwise would not be able to afford to do so. We are simply trying to change it from a rich man sport back to everybody?s sport and this is just a way to do that. Hopefully this clears things up a little bit and we are looking forward to the rest of our ZGF members harvesting some great animals with Arizona Elk Outfitters & Arizona Strip Guides. Best Regards Travis McClendon
As far as the other comments that were made by this 3rd party, I would like to address those point by point
1. I did draw an Antelope Tag and the season carries over to the Archery Season so I could not commit to the hunter in case I was still hunting.
2. My cousin who was going to guide this hunter had also drawn a unit 9 archery tag so he also could not guide. David who is part owner of Arizona Elk Outfitter and one of the best hunters I know, did guide him and did a great job finding this particular bull
3. Alaknak tents with cots is what we all use to camp in, which I believe is very reasonable and most outfitters use them or wall tents. The hunter ate in town at the restaurant for dinner. I do not feel this is cheap in anyway.
4. We were fully committed to the hunter; why wouldn't we be? It's in our best interest that the hunter harvests the biggest bull he can especially as a Zero Guide Fee Member, to say anything else is asinine.
5. The hunt was represented exactly as what was told to the hunter. The fact that they were camped close to town is really immaterial. We cannot control where we find the biggest bulls.
6. We do not have any ZGF trail cameras.
These are the actual facts and my hope is this makes things a little clearer. I will not be responding to any other post in the future about this matter if you have further questions on Arizona hunting, Zero Guide Fees or anything else please do not hesitate to email me at [email protected]
Best Regards
Travis McClendon
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-16 AT 09:51PM (MST)[p]

My buddy, who did not ask me to share what he told me and in fairness to him, had no idea I would post it on MM, has asked me to request of the moderators that they remove my posts,

Out of respect for my friend, MODERATOS PLEASE REMOVE POSTS 34, 35 & 36 THAT I MADE ABOVE.
 

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