Best late rifle v/s mid tier early archery

DanMan · Aug 5, 2019

Hi ya'll.
If you were a non-res looking to go guided elk and at a point level where you might draw top late rifle units like 1&2, 27, or possibly 23 or you could draw a mid-tier early archery like 7W or 8 which would you choose?
I have rifle hunted quite a bit in Co,Wy,and Mt but archery is not my strong point for sure.
Thanks in advance for your comments.

Blank · Aug 5, 2019

What are you really looking for? The outfitter will help a lot for location and knowledge, but a bunch of that you could do on your own too. Score, mature bulls, or major experience and fun? Almost all of the late hunts in the prime units will have a bunch of broken bulls, especially the high numbers of bulls hunts. We have killed a half dozen bulls on late hunts over 300" that were not broken. The archery ones like 7, 8, or 9 will have bulls screaming in your face and you will have reasonable shots at a 320-350" bull, that might not be broken yet. There are some monsters in those units that most every outfitter knows and chases.

Cactusbuck · Aug 5, 2019

If you are looking for a high scoring bull your best bet would be archery in my opinion.

However, if you are a rifle hunter you should consider the late hunts. These rifle hunts here are a blast. Unit 8 is 95% public land. Consider sharing your points with your best hunting buddy and applying for late rifle unit 7W or 8.

You can hunt from the comfort of a hotel in Williams. It's a tourist town with 24 hour gas stations for coffee and fast food. My Dad is 72 and likes a hot shower and warm bed at the end of a long day. It makes the hunt so much more enjoyable.

Do hire a guide though whatever you decide. Arizona requires alot of scouting and guides help a ton. Talk to your guide but think of brushing up on long range shooting, too. There could be shot opportunities at 600 to 800 yards.

After passing up long shots at a couple monster bulls one year we traded in our 30-06's we used in Montana for.338 Winchester Mag's (with a muzzle break). The soil here in AZ is red rock. It makes tracking a wounded animal almost impossible without snow. With the bigger rifle you stop them much quicker in my experience.

msolocam · Aug 6, 2019

I'll tell you the same as I tell most guys. Find a guide that you like, call references and do your research. And then take his advice on what hunts to apply for based on what others have said (opportunity, fun, size, whatever might be important to you)

Happy Hunting

buckhorn · Aug 6, 2019

Good advise from msolocam
I have hunted with him and I can tell you he is an excellent guide. If you are serious about hiring I would definitely start talking to him.

DanMan · Aug 6, 2019

Thanks guys for your replies. You are bringing up points that I have been tossing around myself for awhile now. Part of me says go for something new - screaming bulls in the rut with potential for a mega bull, other part says stay with what I am familiar with meaning post rut rifle.
Either way hunting AZ should be fun and a different experience for me. I'm not hung up on score but I do like the bigger bulls. Broken racks are a turn off to me. Then again I see a lot lower harvest success with archery.
I have a lot to consider before next application time for sure.

YukonDall · Aug 7, 2019

CALL & TALK WITH STEVE CHAPPELL (CHAPPELL GUIDE SERVICE), HE REALLY PRODUCES ON A VARIETY OF HUNTS/UNITS. HE CALLED IN 4 BULLS AT THE SAME TIME FOR ME...??..IT WAS A SHORT HUNT. HE WILL GUIDE MY NEXT HUNT AS WELL. A REALLY DOWN TO EARTH/ GOOD FELLA.....LIKES TO CHAT.

TAKE A LOOK AT HIS WEB SITE.
GOOD LUCK...????.YD.

DanMan · Aug 7, 2019

Yes YD, Steve Chapell is on my radar of potential outfitters. I have not yet made contact with anyone yet but have been looking at a lot of material online. Trying to get a closer feel for what I want out a hunt that I will have 16 or more years invested in. I have had some thrilling wilderness horseback hunts dodging grizz ,et and have some nice bulls on the wall. I am thinking this will be an opportunity for something different but hopefully equally satisfying.
The personal qualities of the guide and outfitter that I would be hunting with will be a huge part of the overall experience and my impression is that Steve is a very good man.

Blank · Aug 8, 2019

The other thing you might consider in the mix is the rotation of units, and the possibility of a muzzleloader hunt in a great area too. The outfitter you talk to would be knowledgeable of this, and that would also extend your successful range to double or triple archery distances. A good friend took a beautiful 380" bull with Steve Chappell on a muzzleloader hunt.

sagebrush · Aug 8, 2019

I don't recommend applying for a rut hunt in AZ because it will spoil elk hunting at any other time or place. But if you must, with 16 points you could have drawn a 23S muzzle loader tag or any archery tag except 9, 10, 23N and 23S this year. An early archery tag in 1, 3A/C, 3B, any of the 5's would be a really fun hunt with the chance at possibly breaking the 350 mark using a guide. After the 440 bull got killed in 23S this year, you'll probably never be able to draw a tag again in that unit without max points. Also, don't mix a 2nd tier application with one of the top 4 archery hunts. You can't possibly draw a first choice in the random draw if your second choice goes in the bonus round.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

AZGuy · Aug 8, 2019

7W archery over any late hunt, all day! Better weather, elk talking, nobody shooting loud guns next to you, big elk, close enough to williams or Flagstaff. 7W archery all day.

WapitiBob · Aug 8, 2019

Understand just what your points will draw, you're way ahead of a mid tier archery hunt if you've been applying for 16 years and have the loyalty and hunter ed points.

DanMan · Aug 8, 2019

Thanks Sage and Chuck for getting right to the point of what you think are the better hunts. Also I want to acknowledge the advice from Bob on getting the maximum value for the points, that has been weighing on my mind also. I will have 16 points total including the 2 extras for the 2020 draw. I don't want to waste any but realize I could keep coming up a little short on some favored units due to creep. It could be that another year or 2 might be worth the wait.
I want to ask YD which unit did you hunt with Chapell and I am assuming you hunted early as you mentioned him calling them in?
Thanks Blank for pointing out the muzzy option.

fin little · Aug 9, 2019

Im right there with you with 16 non res points. I agree your way past late rifle hunts with 16 points IMO. Ive done both a late rifle and an early archery in Az and there is just no comparison . Im to the point where im putting in for archery 9 and biding my time until the early hunt dates swing back to the latest start date. Then I will apply to draw an upper - mid tier sept archery hunt.

YukonDall · Aug 9, 2019

UNIT 9 EARLY BOW. I HAVE BEEN TOLD SEVERAL TIMES YOUR BEST CHANCE FOR A TROPHY BULL IS WITH A BOW EARLY. I WAS ONLY A RIFLE HUNTER AT THE TIME...?.AND COULD NOT GET DRAWN WITH A RIFLE. A LOT MORE TAGS ARE AVAILABLE WITH A BOW HUNT. I BOUGHT A BOW, QUICKLY BECAME ACCURATE WITH IT......AND DOUBLE LUNGED A GOOD BULL AT 42 YARDS.

THE WHOLE BOW PROCESS IS NOTHING BUT FUN !!! WITH YOUR POINT TOTAL HANG IN THERE FOR A GREAT UNIT. CHECK WITH STEVE FOR GREAT UNIT WITH THE POINTS YOU HAVE.

GOOD LUCK...?????..YD.

sagebrush · Aug 12, 2019

There are 2,925 non-residents with more points for elk than you. There are also 1,199 more applicants that don't have a hunters ed point, loyalty point or both that could also pass you if they take hunters ed or when they reach the 5 year mark. That 1,199 also includes residents, so the number is probably more like 790 non-residents. I don't have access to historical reports but how many ahead you draw tags each year? 50? 100? Could be a long wait before you could draw a top tier elk hunt, even for an archery tag.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

DanMan · Aug 12, 2019

That's even more ahead of me than I thought. From the chart published in HF I had added up 1521 NR ahead of me after I get my HE point (that will give me 16pp ) going into the 2020 draw. I do know that I been watching point creep keep a number of hunts just out of reach. Counting bonus point tags available and trying to guess the effects of random draw for hunts out of my reach, I'm guessing maybe 100 to 120 nr hunters will come off the top each year but I could be way off. It could be a number of years before I could "expect" to draw say 3a3c early archery.
A lot to consider for sure.

sagebrush · Aug 13, 2019

This year tags for 3A/C early archery, one went with 21 points, 4 with 19. If all of those were non-residents, then one more tag was available. The next person to draw had 14 points. That tells me with 16 points you would have been guaranteed a tag. 14 tags were issued to applicants with 12 points in the bonus round. I'm sure those were all residents.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

DanMan · Aug 15, 2019

I appreciate all the input here and your advise echoes what I am getting from other sources also. It looks like that if I'm going to have the quality of hunt that I had in mind when I first got into this crazy points game, then I need to update my archery equipment and just ride things out until my number comes up on one of the top units- whether that happens later or sooner - I will draw some day. The picture that I am getting is that the better AZ late rifle hunts may not be any better than some of the hunts I have had on general tags in other states. I will continue to enjoy those hunts until I hit the big one in Az, NV, or Utah.

ElmerFudd · Aug 17, 2019

Two late rifle vs one archery tag in the same period of time is a tougher choice. But once you get past what it takes to draw rifle by much, like you, might as well wait for the archery tag.