To Help or Not to Help?

throwfar · Apr 20, 2019

It is that time of year where we will be slammed with the I drew unit X, I've never step foot in it please help. It used to be black and white, I was taught if you want something you have to earn it, so I'd always scroll past and never give it a second thought. Then I got into a heated debate with NMPaul, who is a staunch supporter of helping because he believes hunting is threatened, and one way to protect it is a continual recruitment of the "new-age" social media warriors who see a video on hunting and apply.
The mantra "EARNED never given" still runs deep.
My question is this... Do we want the people who would rather keyboard scout, trying to ride the backs of those who have worked so hard to figure out the units they so cherish, representing our passion of hunting? Will they share the same enthusiasm as we? Will they wilt on day 4 of a 14 day archery hunt in the heat of the merciless mountain? Then as I hike through the woods finding more and more trash, empty beer bottles, cans of dip, plastic's of every shape and size, I think maybe this new generation is what is needed to help clean up the mess some of the old breed has left. Maybe they will do a better job than some of us at preserving our public lands.
So my conclusion is this, help if you can, protect if you must, but be kind. Thanks NMPaul for sharing your guidance it is deeply appreciated.

To us and those like us, damn few.

Bowdeadly · Apr 20, 2019

Well in that case my daughter drew 16A 1st rifle hunt. No honey holes just somewhere where she can kill a 375 plus bull. LOL
Lucky I have drawn mule deer tags there 6 out of 10 years and used that time mostly to get familiar with the area and also studying the elk. So when this opportunity arises we are prepared. Hope one day to finally draw a bow elk hunt for myself. Now would be a great time to get out there in the unit you drew and look for sheds and getting familiar with the unit. Good luck to everyone this year.

ARHunter · Apr 20, 2019

Good post and worthy of discussion! I will jump in and offer my perspective as an individual who has recently signed up and asked for help. I love all things outdoors. If you ask my wife, I spend way too much time in the woods and not enough time at the house. That said, with the way most jobs function, we are rarely given enough vacation to truly pursue our passions, so when given the opportunity to do something outside of my normal whitetail routine, I have to rely on those who already have wisdom and experience. Likewise, I feel it is my place to share my own insight with those looking for help in my area of "expertise". I kind of figure most likeminded outdoorsman can count on each other to grow in terms of experiences and knowledge. Now, I don't expect anyone to give up a secret honey hole, but I also don't see hunting as a competition. It is a way of life, and from my experience, helping someone achieve a goal is always more rewarding than waiting for them to fail.

That might have been a bit long-winded and seemingly self-serving... but this really is a good topic.

Lonewolf22 · Apr 20, 2019

Break bread like Jesus said... ?

Soj51hopeful · Apr 20, 2019

I like to help when I can, but it's annoying to see the majority of these 1 post wonders not reciprocate with at least a story when the hunt ends. Also any info you put out there is archived which even non members can search. If I had drawn a tag I was planning on buying a map of the unit, do the e scouting to somewhat familiarize myself, then possibly reach out to one of you guys to bounce ideas off of. Unfortunately I was unsuccessful in the drawing.

I think it's a little lazy to expect instant info, but that seems to be the new generational thought. I'm glad newbies are trying hunting but part of hunting is earning everything you do to make the hunt what it is. Even as simple as saying ?thank you, I'll let you know how it goes?.

380bull · Apr 20, 2019

Helping is not the issue, I say help if you want to help and keep to yourself if you don't. The issue I have is sharing the information on a public forum! Use PMs and private chat to discuss specifics. We only get so many tags in our lives and lives are busy! Not everyone can scout and take the time to learn units from 1000 miles away. If you don't like helping mind your own and those that do help many people appreciate your tips!

Katoom · Apr 20, 2019

I'd be inclined to help if the question seems reasonable. There is no need to punish or shame someone just because they are unfamiliar with a particular area or new to a particular bulletin board. The world is a big place, and nobody knows everything about everywhere. The internet is a huge place and few people are long time members of each and every site. Try to remember what it is like to get excited about a new thing! I am on this board every day hoping to learn something. Everyone on here has so much to offer in their own way, that it's a way to pay it forward. You can rest assured that their dues WILL be paid once they begin actual preparations or actually hit the field. A little kickstart to get the ball rolling isn't going to hurt our own successes. That said, I do think that certain people ask certain questions in a really off-putting way sometimes. In that case, better to just let the thread die rather than ridicule the "newbie". Take the high road. And as for PM's - HELL YEAH, no need to share specific intel with everybody. But if the person seems genuine and humble enough, help your hunting brother (or sister) out. It doesn't mean you ever have to walk them to your favorite spot. But a parking area here, or a campsite there is often all that is needed as a nucleus for the person to start from in order to get going on their planning. Talking to each other, and telling stories, just like getting there, is half the fun.

toklat · Apr 20, 2019

Help others if you want to and as much as you want to. Don't have to provide honey holes or other specifics. Provide information you're comfortable with via PMs. Request of a follow-up to the hunt not out of line.
"Do Unto Others"!

throwfar · Apr 20, 2019

>Helping is not the issue, I
>say help if you want
>to help and keep to
>yourself if you don't.
>The issue I have is
>sharing the information on a
>public forum! Use PMs and
>private chat to discuss specifics.
> We only get so
>many tags in our lives
>and lives are busy! Not
>everyone can scout and take
>the time to learn units
>from 1000 miles away.
>If you don't like helping
>mind your own and those
>that do help many people
>appreciate your tips!

+1

BUGLEnmIN · Apr 20, 2019

It's like three years ago I got linched for putting up a thread like this..?? I have noticed already more reach out than ever already starting with " I have never hunted elk before and drew 16a mb please help ??..
Always try and use p.m. When being unit specific imo . I have helped some good people ,now I kinda just stopped. I do have a soft spot for our military and will help them any way I can... Good hunting boys!!!

DirtyTough · Apr 20, 2019

I help a lot more now then I have in the past. I'll usually PM them what I know. I would like to hear the results of the hunt if I help someone though.

I also ask for help but usually through PM. Most of the time it is stuff like (how much pressure, animal maturity, would you hunt it again, etc) If they share an area whether a good place or a place to avoid it helps narrow down a unit. I always try to make sure I give the people I asked an update after the hunt. Even if they didn't or couldn't help much.

I don't think its right or wrong to help. I do think its wrong to bash someone asking for help. Even if its their first post.

RoughCountry · Apr 20, 2019

I don't mind helping a guy but after they ask for help for several months their hunt time is here and you never hear from them again. Most of them never get back on to tell you if they were successful or not but they were all about it before the hunt.

swampokie · Apr 20, 2019

90% of these people join ask for help or hyjack a thread to ask for help. Then they never return to say hi or thanks or screw u. That's why most people on these forums hate to c newbies asking for help in a unit that they have been trying to pull for 15 years. A lot of these people have never been to these units and a lot of them have never set foot in New Mexico. Oh I lucked out in my first try in New Mexico and I drew 34 second archery elk or 5 b deer rifle. I've never been out west before can u please help me with buck size? Quality of unit? Any photos of past kills? Blah blah blah. Good damn luck

cosmic_cowboy · Apr 20, 2019

I have helped allot of folks out on this site regarding the North. You know who you are. Born and raised up here been hunting it for 48 years. Getting to old now so I share advice to the nice ones. But its better to do it via PM so the bad ones don't get the info.
GL to all this year....
Jack

ARHunter · Apr 20, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-19 AT 06:14PM (MST)[p]swampokie, I fit into your description almost to a T. I managed to be involved in a great draw the first year I applied, and I have only been to NM once. I'm not real well traveled. In fact, going to NM to visit family that moved there recently was the first time I've driven any farther west than the Dallas area. Also, I don't know squat about elk hunting other than what I've seen on TV, but I could write a novel on whitetail hunting (or at least an article...). I didn't realize that would make people angry or upset. I do hope everyone can see the irony though. Of course I am a brand new member asking for help in that I realize I drew a very special tag and want to utilize every resource available to maximize my chances of success. Of course I want to see elk sizes, as I hope to harvest a mature bull and not shoot the first animal that walks up. It is only logical that I request help and advice from subject matter experts. Can you see the irony there?

I'll follow up with this. When I visited nm, I was in awe of the beauty the entire time. I spent every free minute of the trip hiking and looking for game/sign. I loved every second. There was no way I wasn't going to apply for some tags after visiting. I didn't actually expect we would draw the first year, but here I am. Incredibly excited and soaking up everything I can. In addition, I'm also looking to buy some acreage for a cabin in Otero County. Anyway, I do apologize to those that are angered by my presence. I hope when I post my play-by-play of the hunt, it will be appreciated by all.

iccyman001 · Apr 20, 2019

>I have helped allot of folks
>out on this site regarding
>the North. You know who
>you are. Born and raised
>up here been hunting it
>for 48 years. Getting to
>old now so I share
>advice to the nice ones.
>But its better to do
>it via PM so the
>bad ones don't get the
>info.
>GL to all this year....
>Jack

You would post this exact thing while I was PM'ing you about mule deer habits!
PM inbound

TX_Diver · Apr 20, 2019

Depends for me.

I have much more limited experience in NM than many of you. I occasionally see posts about areas I've hunted though and usually scroll past, especially if it's a guy's first post!

A guy's daughter drew a youth tag in an area I'd hunted antelope before though and I PM'd him a year or two ago. He seemed legit and gave me a call so we chatted about what I saw when I was out there and he texted me a pic of his daughter with her antelope a few months later. Was kinda cool.

I drew a sweet elk tag last year and PM'd a few people on here who were super helpful so I definitely appreciate it when people are willing to share info.

This year I may be on the other side and actually post a thread looking for opinions on my ibex tag since I just moved and probably won't draw that again.

NMPaul · Apr 20, 2019

Best practice is to help if you want, and ignore if you dont.
Nothing good comes from tearing people down trying to learn about hunting, and, you may meet some good people by helping. I have had my help reciprocated, but, that is not why I try.

New hunters are certainly not exclusive litterers and disrespectful of the land. In fact I have seen the opposite by those that take it for grated. Also, if you are helping a new hunter, you have the opportunity and responsibility to lead by example and show them the correct way to do things.
I understand how annoying some of these posts seem. However, keep in mind, how many people do you know that can truly express themselves effectively when they write? Most of us can't. Very easy to jump to the wrong conclusion.
And of course, if you get a bad vibe. Ignore and move on.

Soj51hopeful · Apr 20, 2019

ARHunter you are already out ahead of the new member pack. Your interactions and making it past post #2 already prove that. You are not the pesty newbie we are referring to. It's the guys that post once or twice then you never hear from again.

I hope your hunt this fall goes great.

swampokie · Apr 20, 2019

AR hunter I was in no way speaking of you. You seem very engaged in the early process of securing info for your hunt. We just see a lot of new to for tag winners that solicit any info available only to not return or pay it forward. I hope ur hunt goes great u have a great tag and im very envious

billc · Apr 21, 2019

I came on this site looking for some help and now have some great friends in New mexico. Been 8 years of fun and going back for 13 archery bull elk this year.

I have spent my share of extra days scouting since then and help when I can. I will never give up a spot that is from someone else but share what I find if I can.

Deer · Apr 21, 2019

>Best practice is to help if
>you want, and ignore if
>you dont.
>Nothing good comes from tearing people
>down trying to learn about
>hunting, and, you may meet
>some good people by helping.
> I have had my
>help reciprocated, but, that is
>not why I try.
>
>New hunters are certainly not exclusive
>litterers and disrespectful of the
>land. In fact I
>have seen the opposite by
>those that take it for
>grated. Also, if you
>are helping a new hunter,
>you have the opportunity and
>responsibility to lead by example
>and show them the correct
>way to do things.
>I understand how annoying some of
>these posts seem. However,
>keep in mind, how many
>people do you know that
>can truly express themselves effectively
>when they write?
>Most of us can't.
>Very easy to jump to
>the wrong conclusion.
>And of course, if you get
>a bad vibe. Ignore
>and move on.

This is great advice the old adage if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything comes to mind.

ARHunter · Apr 21, 2019

I didn't necessarily think you were. I was just pointing out that I fit the majority of the newbie mold and was trying to make a contribution to the conversation.

Even though I stick with DIY hunts, I'm rarely doing things all by myself. The most successful hunting trips I've participated in have all been collaborative efforts, and collaboration is rarely successful with complete strangers. So, just like I believe we should help each other when possible; I also believe it is the "newbies" responsibility to do their best to build relationships and show respect for the subject matter experts they are requesting guidance from.

roadrunner · Apr 21, 2019

I help publicly with generic information but PM with details.

"Honey holes" don't exist anymore unless you can somehow draw every year or tag along with others you know who hunt the same area. Things can change from year to year, so unless you are there all the time the honey hole may have only been a 1 year thing or it isn't the same when you hunted it last time.

Valle Vidal is different. Everywhere is a honey hole, but it's one of those units where stepping on each other at sometime after sharing information is slim to none.

Bowdeadly · Apr 21, 2019

Honey holes are like slot machines. Just because you hit a jackpot on it one time don't expect it to hit the next time you go. Or when you show up someone is already sitting in your chair getting a hand pay. LOL

lve2143 · Apr 21, 2019

If you hurt yourself by helping,
than helping hurts you.
If not, it doesn't.

BigDaddyL · Apr 22, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-19 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]I will give this a shot from my perspective.

I joined this forum almost 4 years ago, I think. I joined after finding it while searching the internet trying to educate myself on how to hunt all the critters here in the western states. I was and am one of those people who reached/reaches out for help since I did not spend my entire life hunting out here.

As a military guy, I heavily needed the help and support of the successful hunters in order to maximize my chances of success. I am not going to be here for long. As a matter of fact, this will be my last year hunting in New Mexico due to retiring from the military.

As many others have already said, help if you want and if you don't want to, then don't. But to beat others up because they ask or provide help to those who are asking is silly. I help where I can and I do so without divulging secret info from others when asked not to. The draw is a huge limiting factor for many of us. Everyone has to make the best of each tag we are drawn for. Passing info and educating each other is not only important for successful trips, but it also builds or re-enforces the desire to grow/keep hunting. I view my fellow hunters as friends and family not competitors though.

I wish everyone the best of luck and thank all of those who have helped and provided guidance and information to me and my sons. We truly did appreciate it very much.

Between my 4 teenage sons and I, we were drawn for 13 tags over 4 years. Out of those 13 tags, we harvested 2 pronghorn antelope, 2 Mule Deer Bucks, 2 Oryx, 1 +260" Bull Elk, and 1 Rocky Mountain Bighorn. We also purchased an OTC tag for black bear and harvested one. We failed to fill 3 Elk tags, 1 Deer, and a Barbary Sheep.

This year, I will be after a nice Mule Deer Buck in 17 for my final year of hunting in NM.

Thanks again,
Todd

BigChiefJ · Apr 22, 2019

I don't mind giving some information to folks and don't judge folks that don't want to share.

mickeyelk · Apr 22, 2019

This is the exact reason I don't visit Monstermuley as much as I use too. When I signed on years ago this website was great. You asked a question and there was plenty of people helping. This was great, never needing the exact location of a trophy animal just help on a starting point. As a non resident my chances of hunting any unit in New mexico more that once are slim at best. So any little tidbit of info is always helpful, even more that you can believe. PM's are helpful. This website should have a non resident section for those of us who want to help other non residents with info. I'm from Nevada, if anyone wants to know what I know about any areas that I have hunted in Nevada, just ask. I'll tell you what I know. Good luck to all who draw and hunt.

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Apr 22, 2019

>Depends for me.
>
>I have much more limited experience
>in NM than many of
>you. I occasionally see
>posts about areas I've hunted
>though and usually scroll past,
>especially if it's a guy's
>first post!
>
>A guy's daughter drew a youth
>tag in an area I'd
>hunted antelope before though and
>I PM'd him a year
>or two ago. He
>seemed legit and gave me
>a call so we chatted
>about what I saw when
>I was out there and
>he texted me a pic
>of his daughter with her
>antelope a few months later.
> Was kinda cool.
>
>I drew a sweet elk tag
>last year and PM'd a
>few people on here who
>were super helpful so I
>definitely appreciate it when people
>are willing to share info.
>
>
>This year I may be on
>the other side and actually
>post a thread looking for
>opinions on my ibex tag
>since I just moved and
>probably won't draw that again.
>

That was my daughter and I appreciated the tips

DWV015 · Apr 22, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-19 AT 03:38PM (MST)[p]>This is the exact reason I
>don't visit Monstermuley as much
>as I use too.
>When I signed on years
>ago this website was great.
> You asked a question
>and there was plenty of
>people helping. This was great,
>never needing the exact location
>of a trophy animal
>just help on a starting
>point. As a
>non resident my chances of
>hunting any unit in New
>mexico more that once are
>slim at best. So
>any little tidbit of info
>is always helpful, even more
>that you can believe.
>PM's are helpful. This
>website should have a non
>resident section for those of
>us who want to help
>other non residents with info.
> I'm from Nevada, if
>anyone wants to know what
>I know about any areas
>that I have hunted in
>Nevada, just ask. I'll
>tell you what I know.
> Good luck to all
>who draw and hunt.

+1 for this ^^^^

I have seen way too may sarcastic posts when folks politely ask for help. Vacation days are not a dime a dozen for most and scouting trips 300-500-700 miles away for some that may take as long as the hunt are not realistic for many. Asking for a starting point or just for general info about a unit has been an "unfriendly" venture for some on this forum. There are the select few that do help when they can- kudos to you guys. I know a good bit a bout a unit or two and try to help folks when I can and keep in contact with them through their hunt which has been fun. I would be willing to bet that most people asking for help and that are unable to scout with their own boots on the ground prior to going would much rather spend that time out in the bush if they had the time and opportunity to do so. I know I would, just isn't always realistic.

BrianID · Apr 22, 2019

I'm still willing to help but not as willing as I was 10-15 years ago. It is frustrating to waste time on helping someone and never have them come back and tell you thank you or let you know how their hunt went. I agree that some on monstermuleys can be inappropriately hard are new people asking honey holes. However, some of the first time posters have it coming. Instead of giving them I hard time, I generally just ignore their posts.
Last year I drew an off range oryx tag and I'm very appreciative of those that gave me some tips. If someone where to ask for help, I would be willing to give them some pointers but wouldn't be giving specific GPS coordinates. If I remember correctly, I spent 12 days scouting and 8 days hunting for off range Oryx last year. I did find some good spots on my own and I was given a couple spots from others. I wouldn't give out any of those spots to most people with 1 post here on monstermuleys asking for GPS coordinates. Just because someone doesn't have time to scout, it doesn't mean I should be obligated to give out spots I've worked hard to learn. I'm actually less willing to help those that don't put in their own effort scouting than those that are willing to put in their own work.
If you are going to hunt a new area without ever scouting it, then you shouldn't expect to be as successful as those that do put in the work.

Psyonics · Apr 28, 2019

Personally I asked for help getting started hunting near the end of last season and I got some good responses. Personally I try to make sure that I always respond to people so the thread doesn't go dead. I still talk to one of the more helpful people from that thread and might have gone hunting with them this year if they would have drawn with me. I think for me as I gain experience I would be willing to help, but I don't think I would give specific spots for someone to go to. Not as much so I don't hurt my own hunting experience, but I think that there is a difference between helping and just handing someone a spot. Plus if the spot doesn't pan out you are going to get ##### from them for ruining their hunt.

Ropinfool · May 2, 2019

here's the deal, you give somebody advice and they tell everybody. next thing you know there's out of state plates all over the "honey holes" I've had friend who guide on public land and all their doing is showing outsiders where to go. next year they come by themselves or bring all their out of state buddies. and as for ethics, ive had some bad experiences with some NR's so I won't help anybody unless it's a good friend.

Psyonics · May 2, 2019

I dont disagree with that at all. O think that there is a big difference between giving advise and just telling someone where a good spot is.

NewMexicoRob · May 2, 2019

I don't mind helping others.

Ropinfool · May 2, 2019

Here's advice
1. hire a guide
2. come out, put in the work, learn/hunt the area, enjoy the hunt. if your scared about wasting money, go to choices 1 or 3.
3. don't put in for area's you don't know.

lovehunting · May 2, 2019

I put in for areas all the time I don't know... No hears the deal help or don't help I really don't think we need to hear everyone's two cents on this it's simple help if you want if you don't want too then don't. Remember it is public land and yes ethics are always involed.