info is out

Here it is Mightyhunter about what we discussed. The info is out so I will post it all to see about the deer herds in 105,106,109 and the North fork herd...


Hello,

I hope this email finds you well enjoying the warmer weather. I am writing to update you on the results from the two meetings we held in February for the mule deer in the Cody area. Both meetings were very well attended with over 40 at the Powell meeting and close to 90 at the Cody meeting. First and foremost we want to thank you for your participation and for your passion for the mule deer herds surrounding the Cody area. It is very encouraging to us to see so many show up to discuss future deer management in these areas.

We were able to summarize levels of support for each of the questions from both meetings into the graphs attached in this document. Briefly, a majority of people think there are issues with the number of bucks in each herd, a majority of people fully supported or supported with some reservation a reduction of days to the general season in both herds, a majority of people fully supported or supported with some reservation a reduction in the limited quota licenses in the Clark's Fork heard, a majority of people fully supported or supported with reservation a mix of general and late-season limited quota licenses in the Upper Shoshone heard, and a majority of people fully supported or supported with reservation the reduction of non-resident Region F general licenses.

An overwhelmingly large proportion of meeting participants supported a threshold system to return days to the general season if there was a decrease in those days. It was clear from our meetings there is a lack of trust with the department on gaining back days if days are removed from the general season. This weighs very heavily on all managers involved in the proposal we are bringing before you during this season setting process. We want to be very upfront and clear that our goal is to allow population levels and buck numbers to rebound and then allow the days to return as warranted. We are committed to revisiting these proposed seasons in two to three years to evaluating biological data and hunters perceptions of buck numbers and hunt quality to determine if returning days to the general seasons in both herds is warranted.

Our proposal tries to combine all the discussions and the support for each of the options presented. In the Clark's Fork, we reduced days by 7 in the general season and reduced the 105, 106 and 109 limited quota (LQ) licenses by half. The reduction in days in the Clark's Fork should reduce buck harvest and protect a portion of migrating bucks in that herd. We also tried to decrease the potential of harvesting migrating doe deer in hunt area 105 after they potentially mix with resident deer by shortening the November general doe season and making it private valid on land only.

In the Upper Shoshone herd, there was a lot of discussion about the importance of opportunity in November but also using the Clark's Fork model as a way to decrease buck harvest over the short term and still allow some limited opportunity later into November. To achieve this we combined those two priorities and tried to take a piece of each and apply them to the proposed seasons. We are proposing to shorten the general season by 7 days, but also add a conservative LQ late season opportunity to both the North (110-111) and South (112-114) forks. The intent is to decrease overall buck harvest over the next several years to reduce the recovery time of undesirable buck numbers and hunt quality. Even with these proposed changes managers predict hunt quality to be low for the next several years because of the low fawn ratios and low yearling buck ratios we have observed . Again, the intent is to add days back once we reach a place with population, hunter satisfaction, and buck numbers everyone is comfortable with.

Please see attached proposals for each herd that show the changes we are proposing.

We can not thank you enough for your participation in this process and we look forward to working with you into the future to ensure the best long term management solutions for your deer herds. If you need any additional information please feel free to stop by the office or give me a call.

Have a great week,

Tony
--
Tony Mong
Wildlife Biologist
Cody District
Wyoming Game and Fish Dept.
(307) 527-7125 office
[email protected]

My letter came with these attachments:

file:///C:/Users/Ackley/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/Content.Outlook/1507JBRD/Cody%20Area%20Mule%20Deer%20Meetings%202019%20Results.pdf

file:///C:/Users/Ackley/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/Content.Outlook/1507JBRD/MD216%20Clarks%20Fork_2019%20Proposed%20HUNTING%20SEASONS.pdf

file:///C:/Users/Ackley/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/Content.Outlook/1507JBRD/MD215_Upper%20Shoshone_2019-Season%20setting.pdf

With regards to changes in 106, I hope the non-residents and resident hunters like taking their rifle for a walk. Buck harvest will be close to nil in that unit. I also predict that the season will never return to the whole month of October in my lifetime. They have now trimmed over 17 days from the general season since 2005. In 2005, the local G&F told sportsman that eliminating the November hunt would solve the declining numbers problem. Here goes another week. Remember, the mule deer in 106 are almost all migratory.

just sayin...mh

LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-19 AT 08:57PM (MST)[p]X




#livelikezac

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-19
>AT 08:57?PM (MST)
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>X
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>#livelikezac


X????


Chicken....




GOODWIN: Dems really do love Republicans -- when they're dead...

Sorry about the links. mh

Here are the major changes to the mule deer regulations starting in 2019.


Hunt Area 105 and 106
The general season in these deer hunt areas has been reduced by 7 days with the season closing on October 24th. The doe season in 105 has also been modified with the season ending for does on public lands on November 5th and on private lands the season ends November 17th. The LE 105,106,109 deer hunt tags have been cut to 25 in total.


Hunt Area 110, 111, 112,113 and 114

The general season in these deer hunt areas has been reduced by 7 days with the season closing November 3rd. They have added 25 LE deer tags for 112, 113 and 114 for the first 15 days of November.

Did they cut any anterless tags? Will any of these changes help fawn recruitment? I'm sure these changes will save some bucks to make older age class of animals.

They cut the antlerless season in Clark Area 105 in half. The end was usually November 30th. Obviously the LE 105,106,109 tags have been cut substantially. Technically, you can kill a doe with that tag. Also, youth hunting of does will continue in 105 and 106. I am not aware of any change in the antlerless season in 121.The fawn recruitment should be boosted by ending the 105 antlerless season in 105. The "new" end of that season usually coincides with the date the migratory mule deer start showing in the area.

It may result in making some older age class bucks. Unfortunately, with the early shutoff date in 105 and 106 the yearling bucks will be slammed. With the exception of very few resident bucks in the area, that is almost the only mule deer bucks in those areas before October 25th.

Until G&F lowers the price of NR wolf tags, grants residents multiple wolf tags, increases the quota and the season and opens the involved areas to wolf trapping, this decline will continue. G&F blames winter kill as the problem when in reality it is predation. The summer of 2018 in these areas was well above average for moisture and browse.

Despite G&F rhetoric, there is little or no chance the early close dates will ever be changed back to October 31st.


just sayin...mh

What is the reason for doe harvests? Private land complaints?

jm77,

That is it for sure in 105. The farmers in 121 (Heart Mountain) also don't want the mule deer on their farms and ranches. The Clarks Fork mule deer herd also migrates heavily into 121 by the middle of November. That season now ends on the last day of November and that season appears unchanged.


just sayin...mh

>What is the reason for doe
>harvests? Private land complaints?


Yes. Local deer hit the crops but the farmers/ranchers blame it on the sunlight/Crandall herd of deer that arrive in late nov to sometime in December after the crops have been long gone harvested

All,
Sorry about another email, however I realized I did not include the dates and times of the proposal meetings (all seasons, not just deer) and ways you can make comments on the season proposals.

You can submit written comments that will go directly to the WGFD commissioners at either of our public meetings:
March 18
Powell, Fairgrounds at 6 pm.

March 28
Cody, Grizzly Room in the Cody Library at 6 pm

You can also go online and submit commits through our website after March 14 and before April 1:
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Get-Involved/Public-Meetings
Scroll to the bottom and select the season you wish to comment on.

Written comments will be accepted through 5:00 PM April 1 at the following address:
Season Comments
3030 Energy Lane
Casper, WY 82604


Finally, these proposals will be presented at the April WGFD Commission meeting in Riverton (place to be determined) April 23-24.

Again if you need any additional information please let me know.

Thanks for your participation.

Tony
--
Tony Mong
Wildlife Biologist
Cody District
Wyoming Game and Fish Dept.
(307) 527-7125 office
[email protected]

I will be at the Powell Meeting to submit my comments to the Commission. mh

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19 AT 06:04AM (MST)[p]I went to the meeting on March 18th in Powell. The crowd was small. I would guess there were as many red shirts there as concerned citizens. The information presented involved sheep, goats, moose, antelope, elk and finally deer proposals. The local biologist, Tony Mong, was the only speaker. There was no general question and answer period after his presentation. You were encouraged to pick out a red shirt if you had any questions.The proposals and status reports involved just the area in and around Cody.

My recollection of the happenings were as follows:

Sheep: For those of you that have already applied, you should know that there is a proposal to cut 40% of the tags in Area 1 to 12. In Area 2 they have cut a couple of tags. In Area 3 they have added a single tag but that is for a non-resident hunter.

Goats: Success is high. They are concerned about Area 1 and have noticed a decline in the goat population especially in the Clarks Fork Canyon area.

Antelope: There have been season date changes in most of the units around Cody. There was a substantial cut of 33% in the number of tags in Area 80. That area is where I live.

Moose: They are trying to increase the average age of the moose harvested in 9 and 11.

Elk: To me, the changes and current regulations for the Cody area do not seem like a model of clarity. The takeaway on the elk herds is that the resident herds are doing well and the migratory herds are not doing well.

Mule Deer: I am only mentioning mule deer as whitetail deer were not really discussed. They have cut 200 non-resident F tags down to a total of 550. They have proposed large cuts in the antlered general buck seasons on the Shoshone and Clarks Fork Deer Herds. They have cut the limited quota deer hunt tag numbers in half for 105, 106 and 109. They have added a couple of small limited quota hunts on the North Fork and South Fork of the Shoshone. They cut the doe season in 105 down by 2 weeks and confined it to private property after the 5th. They did not cut the doe season for the month of November in 121. They did confine the hunt to private property. The does in 105 and 121 do consist of migrating mule deer herds from the Clarks Fork Herd. that is the deer herd in crisis.

There were two memorable quotes from the biologist, Tony Mong, at this hearing:

1. With regard to the mule deer in both herds, "it is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better". I wished I had worn my Muck Boots before hearing this comment.

2. There was little mention of predators. They were just referred to as "toothy critters". The best comment was the G&F is thinking about looking into and studying how the "toothy critters" are interacting with the migratory mule deer and elk.

I submitted a 5 page comment to the Game and Fish Commission concerning the proposals involving the Clarks Fork and Shoshone river mule deer herds. They did not have anyone there to receive the comments. When I asked where I should place my comments, they dug out a cardboard box that they found. I guess I know where my comments are likely headed.

If I sound disgusted with the process, that would be a mild understatement. When government is trying to help at any level, watch your back.

just sayin...mh

Im confused. The game and fish hate mountain goats and they have a goal to wipe a bunch out. They are concerned that the clarks fork herd is going down. Well no s***. That is what happens when you put 12 tags for that one canyon. I saw that coming 10 years ago. The goats don't even get a chance to grow over 7 inches tall.

At this point Mightyhunter their logic makes no sense to me anymore. I cant even talk to chris queen/travis krane or the one in the meetetsee area. I have more logical conversations with my dog...

mightyhunter:

Your written comments, along with other written comments from the meeting, will be attached to the "season setting meeting" report and forwarded to the Cheyenne G&F headquarters office.

All of these reports from across the state are combined for G&F Commissioners to review, if they want to.


ClearCreek

Thanks for the updates, it's disappointing to hear that there was such a small hunter turnout. It's more disappointing to hear the fish and game handles the process

>Thanks for the updates, it's disappointing
>to hear that there was
>such a small hunter turnout.
>It's more disappointing to hear
> the fish and game
>handles the process

I totally agree on the hunter turnout...its been disappointing for the last 40 years I've been hunting.

Everyone has time to take off to hunt, take the old lady and kids on vacation, go to their kids soccer games, drink beer with their buddies, fish, watch football, etc. etc. but never time to attend a single meeting.

Its a rare bird when there's 30-40 people attending a public meeting that will impact how our herds are managed.

But, no shortage of high pitched whining when the GF doesn't do what those whiners want them to. The GF cant read your mind...they need input and hunters need to get off the couch and attend meetings.

LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-19 AT 10:18AM (MST)[p]Buzz H,

I agree that it is a disappointment when hunters don't show up at these meetings and express their views. I don't think it is necessarily a time issue for everyone. The many folks I spoke to before these meetings, all said the same thing to me:

1)The G&F never listens to what I have to say.

2)Further, the minds of the G&F are already made up before soliciting public sentiment.

3) If I raise my voice in opposition, I am just asking to be harassed by the wardens present at these meetings.

I attended the first meeting with G&F in Powell in February. The sole topic was the two mule deer herds that G&F felt were in crisis. I got the distinct impression at that meeting, that the G&F had already made a decision on what they were going to do. To me, the only purpose of the first meeting seemed to be for the G&F to gauge the level of opposition to what they already had decided. I was told in late November 2018, by two G&F employees, that they were going to cut the season dates in Unit 106 by 7-10 days. The funny thing about that, they had just started the process of counting deer after the 2018 hunting season. In 106, the G&F gauge harvest based on voluntary reporting and post season counts. They don't have a check station and in the 20 years I have hunted 106, I have never been checked in the field.

If what G&F suggesting is approved, I will be looking for a new place to hunt mule deer. Cutting 7 days off of the season in 106,110 and 111 will result in little harvest. I believe that in past years, 70% to 90% of the bucks harvested in those units were killed in those last 7 days. These are migratory deer that just move though these areas based on the length of days, weather, and the rut. If you don't want any bucks killed, be honest and just eliminate the hunting season.


just sayin...mh

LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-19 AT 12:16PM (MST)[p]MH,

Your items 1-3 has not been my experience in Wyoming, but in Montana, numbers 1 and 2 have been my experience.

In Wyoming, I've had pretty good success in getting my points across and have seen them respond to public comments in a positive way.

What I disagree with, is people that show up, one time, don't get exactly what they want (many times wayyyy too late in the process), then throw their hands in the air and declare defeat.

I can tell you that if you enter the political side of wildlife management in any state, expecting to get your way on every issue, well, don't even bother getting involved.

I also believe that its best to talk to the biologists, etc. way more often than just at the public meetings. Getting involved early and often will only bear one thing, and that's fruit.

I've also found being engaged with the GF commission is a good thing as well.

I also think that many times, sportsmen are a lot less interested in the long-term health of wildlife than they are in their ability to put a bullet in same THIS year.

The desires of hunters are often in conflict with the correct management of wildlife, just a fact that needs to be recognized.

However, of all the States I've hunted, I have to say there is a lot more to like with the job the Wyoming GF does than to whine about. I wish some of the Residents that live here would move to Montana for a few years. They would come back with a much different vision of just how much Wyoming does right.

Also, many just need to realize that these issues are not a sprint, they're a marathon and it takes time, effort, and a persistent approach to move the needle the way it needs to go.

What I've found is that many just don't have the stomach for what it takes to effectively advocate for wildlife, public lands, and habitat.

But regardless of all that, I for one, do appreciate that you're taking the time to engage in the process...a vast, vast, majority never do. Regardless of the outcome, just making your voice heard, lets those making the decision know that you care.

Keep after it.

LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-19 AT 01:37PM (MST)[p]Buzz H,

I appreciate your input. I have tried to be involved as much as possible. For many years, much of the public input in this area swirled around grizzly bears and wolves. That is just a fact. That had to play itself out over a long period of time and ultimately the input, for and against, had little to do with public input and more to do with the courts and the federal government. I would have been content to allow the G&F to eliminate the problem bears with state control given last year. I think going for the hunts so soon, just brought the court fights and PR propaganda on quickly.

I have had personal, email and face to face conversations with the biologist. I have actually commended him for his presentations. I had a face to face conversation about the deer with the local warden and his suggestion was that I hunt somewhere else if I didn't like it. I am actually taking him up on his suggestion.

In 2005, or so, the G&F in this area said the Clarks Fork Deer Herd was in crisis. This was after two years of 4 pt. only restrictions. The decision was made to eliminate the November season from Unit 106. That was a huge change. The public was basically told that this would fix the problem. Now some 14 years later, they want to chop off another 7 days from the 106 general hunt. That is about the only time where you actually might see and harvest a mature buck. A few years ago, the G&F eliminated the 51 tag general elk season and went to limited quota. Just a couple of years ago, the warden in 51 told me that they should have left it general. How can anyone trust that kind of decision making. That unit still remains a limited quota hunt.

The biggest problem I see in the Cody Region is really the fact it is so unique. There are issues to deal with in the totality that are really not the same statewide. First, there is a large outfitter presence here and most of them are guiding on public land. Second, this is essentially predator central for obvious reasons. Third, the bulk of our mule deer and elk are migratory and not resident. Currently, we have a supervisory biologist who has been here under 1 year. The biologist for the areas involve in the changes has only been here a couple of years. This is an area where you need biologists that are familiar with the uniqueness of this area. That only comes with time and experience in the area. You can't gain the necessary knowledge from college courses or from books.

Again, I appreciate your input. I know it is a marathon but unfortunately at 64 I am not likely to finish a marathon.

just sayin...mh

After I went to the first meeting I know they had their minds made up before an open meeting to the public.

We do have a sub-committee that went through the whole slide show after the meeting. Due to other obligations I did not attend those meetings but just sat over the phone and expressed my points/concerns/ideas.

As mightyhunter knows I have kept him in the loop and the guy that created the sub-committee had lunch several times with the biologist. We even went as far as writing letters to the local papers and flooding facebook with our write up but the papers have not printed it. I guess printing letters that agree with that stupid new green deal is more entertaining to print in the local papers.

To be honest im glad I am addicted to whitetail hunting cause the future is not looking good for these mule deer hunts.