RoadlessHunter
Active Member
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- 568
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-19 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]I have been scouting Region G, H and K this year, but it seems the buck numbers and size are way down. What do you all think from what you have been seeing?
Region G & H Down this Year?
- Thread starter RoadlessHunter
- Start date
Chesterwyo
Very Active Member
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- 1,543
I've noticed the same. Last winter was pretty harsh.
RoadlessHunter
Active Member
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- 568
These are the best buck we've encountered this year. Just a bunch of medium sized bucks.
BigJohnson
Member
- Messages
- 94
Shouldn?t be a surprise. Nearly all of the fawns and lots of adults died in the 2016-17 winter. Last winter was a killer too.
Been out 2 times this year so far.
1st just a morning and seen 26 bucks. 3 of them probably over the 160" mark but not much more. Out of the 26 I think at least 10 of them were at least 3.5 years old
2nd time out 2 mornings and an evening. about 30 bucks.
3 of them at or over 170" mark with a 4th very close. I am thinking 1 of them is very close to 190".
Seems to me that this year is on par with every other year give or take.
1st just a morning and seen 26 bucks. 3 of them probably over the 160" mark but not much more. Out of the 26 I think at least 10 of them were at least 3.5 years old
2nd time out 2 mornings and an evening. about 30 bucks.
3 of them at or over 170" mark with a 4th very close. I am thinking 1 of them is very close to 190".
Seems to me that this year is on par with every other year give or take.
Hunt4fun96
Member
- Messages
- 26
I live in G and we have been seeing lots of bucks. Not noticing any difference in size.
Coyote_chaser
Active Member
- Messages
- 847
Spent two mornings and saw one buck over 180 and 2 over 170. Lots of deer.
RoadlessHunter
Active Member
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- 568
I guess we might have been in the wrong place at the wrong time during our scouting trips. Archery season is just around the corner, so scouting season is over.
letmgetbig
Active Member
- Messages
- 120
I was never going to comment on here again. But someone needs to represent the Deer. So on behalf of the Deer I am happy to be the village A-hole. Mule Deer numbers have been declining for 30 years everywhere and that includes G&H. There are not lots of Deer and never will be again. Every year has fewer than the previous year. In the last 30 years MAYBE 4 years carried over more fawns than total Deer lost. This year is the fewest Deer I have ever seen. I look every day and have for many many years. So you guys keep killing Deer like they have done something wrong. And your CAMO COSTUMES will hang in the closet most years. The only thing there are lots of are people.
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,043
Doom and gloom. The sky is falling. True there might me less deer. But G & H is still hands down one of the best mule deer hunts in the West. Bottom line is it will never be what it was 30 years ago.
I had a great archery hunt this year in G. Saw a lot of bucks in the two days I hunted. And the 200"+ buck I shot is thanking me for giving him a ride back to my house, and a warm place to stay this winter. ?
I had a great archery hunt this year in G. Saw a lot of bucks in the two days I hunted. And the 200"+ buck I shot is thanking me for giving him a ride back to my house, and a warm place to stay this winter. ?
letmgetbig
Active Member
- Messages
- 120
Doom and gloom me then agree. Less Deer is a fact. I know all about the one big archery buck taken. Several winters he was fed a coffee can of grain by a little old lady who bought grain at the feed store on a fixed income. All big bucks have a story and many are there because of some ones efforts.
Millsworks
Active Member
- Messages
- 481
>Doom and gloom me then agree.
>Less Deer is a fact.
>I know all about the
>one big archery buck taken.
>Several winters he was fed
>a coffee can of grain
>by a little old lady
>who bought grain at the
>feed store on a fixed
>income. All big bucks have
>a story and many are
>there because of some ones
>efforts.
You are right about the decline of mule deer.
You are right about the big deer that are there are do to someone's efforts.
HUNTERS!!!!!!!
Hunters "efforts" in the form of conservative action and wildlife funding in the money spent on tags, licenses, tourism, and various other indirect ways, have been and always will help support and manage wildlife of all kinds.
The main reason for the mule deer decline is habitat loss, disease, predation, and in some ways climate changes.
Mule deer just haven't adapted to these various things as fast or as well as others.
Unfortunately there were likely too many deer 30+ years ago for the habitat that was there. Better management will hopefully get mule deer on the right track. But the current numbers may be what there will be for some time in the future.
Hopefully they can adapt to the things they need to in the nearer future sooner than the later.
You can bet it will be hunters that lead the work to get it done.
The greatest threat to all wildlife is IGNORENT people who want animal life to not only proceed humans, but to be allowed to overpopulate the wild to the point that even if there is ample food for them, disease emerges to try to get them in check.
Starvation and disease is a cruel and crude Management method that would likely mean extinction for animals that can't addapt and overcome change and obstacles quickly.
History has proven this over and over.
>Less Deer is a fact.
>I know all about the
>one big archery buck taken.
>Several winters he was fed
>a coffee can of grain
>by a little old lady
>who bought grain at the
>feed store on a fixed
>income. All big bucks have
>a story and many are
>there because of some ones
>efforts.
You are right about the decline of mule deer.
You are right about the big deer that are there are do to someone's efforts.
HUNTERS!!!!!!!
Hunters "efforts" in the form of conservative action and wildlife funding in the money spent on tags, licenses, tourism, and various other indirect ways, have been and always will help support and manage wildlife of all kinds.
The main reason for the mule deer decline is habitat loss, disease, predation, and in some ways climate changes.
Mule deer just haven't adapted to these various things as fast or as well as others.
Unfortunately there were likely too many deer 30+ years ago for the habitat that was there. Better management will hopefully get mule deer on the right track. But the current numbers may be what there will be for some time in the future.
Hopefully they can adapt to the things they need to in the nearer future sooner than the later.
You can bet it will be hunters that lead the work to get it done.
The greatest threat to all wildlife is IGNORENT people who want animal life to not only proceed humans, but to be allowed to overpopulate the wild to the point that even if there is ample food for them, disease emerges to try to get them in check.
Starvation and disease is a cruel and crude Management method that would likely mean extinction for animals that can't addapt and overcome change and obstacles quickly.
History has proven this over and over.
rocky2track
Active Member
- Messages
- 316
When you lose 30-40% of the entire deer herd from 2016, it'll take time and favorable winters to get that back. Habitat shows us that we'll never get back to the late '80s. This last winter did not help, but I will still be looking for a buck on the mountain with my kids this year and enjoying just hunting deer whether we see giants or not. Take from it what you want; below is from the G&F 2019 Hunting Forecast:
The Wyoming Range Deer Herd (Hunt Areas 134, 135, 143-145) is designated as a special management strategy herd which focuses on providing high quality hunting opportunities, mature age class deer, and high buck:doe ratios (30-45:100). The winter of 2016-2017 was extremely severe, with very heavy losses of fawns and adults documented. The winter of 2017-2018, however was very mild and even though the 2017 fawn crop was not large, most survived and helped with the recovery of this deer herd. A comprehensive deer abundance survey on all winter ranges of the Wyoming Range deer herd in mid-February 2018 (which required two helicopters and 133 hours of flight time to complete) produced a total of 25,317 deer actually observed and an estimate of 30,500 deer. This survey gave managers more confidence that current methods of estimating deer numbers accurately track the population and will be very helpful in monitoring the recovery of this deer herd.
The southern portion of the herd unit will offer 13 days of antlered deer hunting in Hunt Areas 134 and 135. As in the last two years, an antler point regulation will allow hunters to take antlered mule deer with three points or more on either antler in Area 134. In Area 135, hunters will be permitted to take antlered mule deer or any white-tailed deer. General license hunting opportunity for antlered mule deer will run from September 15 - October 6 for Hunt Areas 143-145. In Hunt Area 145, a total of 50 limited quota Type 3 licenses valid for any white-tailed deer will be in place from November 1 to November 15, and unused Type 3 licenses valid for antlerless white-tailed deer will continue from November 16 to January 31. Due to the severity of the 2016-2017 winter and associated deer losses, reductions to the nonresident quota were implemented in both Regions G and H in 2017. These quotas remain the same for 2019, and are 400 in Region G and 600 for Region H. Reduced nonresident quotas combined with a shorter general license season for all hunters will help meet the special management criteria of maintaining at least 30 bucks:100 does and assuring older age class bucks remain in the population.
2019 Statewide Fall Hunting Forecast ? Page 9
The 2018 hunting season produced some exceptional buck deer, and hunter satisfaction was quite high even though many portions of the Wyoming Range were closed due to wildfire control efforts. Even though late winter conditions in the Jackson area were quite severe, deer winter ranges along the east slope of the Wyoming Range did not experience this, and impacts are not expected to be above normal. Southern portions of the herd unit did experience increased snow depths in late winter that translated into higher than normal levels of fawn losses.
The northern portion of the Sublette Deer Herd includes Hunt Areas 146, 150-152, 155 and 156 in the Jackson Region. Again, due to high deer mortality caused by severe winter conditions in 20162017 and the need to promote population growth, the reduced nonresident quota, shortened season, and antler point restriction will remain in place for 2019. Winter range conditions for some portions of the Sublette Herd were relatively harsh in late winter, although the late onset of severe weather will hopefully minimize impacts.
As the Wyoming Range and Sublette mule deer herds recover from the 2016-2017 winter, and numbers begin to increase, it is the intent to increase hunter opportunity in the form of additional hunting days and appropriate increases in nonresident quotas. In addition, the 3-point or better antler point restriction should be removed to allow more opportunity and reduce hunting pressure placed on adult bucks.
2019 Statewide Fall Hunting Forecast ? Page 10
Pinedale
Portions of two mule deer herds are managed in the Pinedale Region: the Sublette and Wyoming Range herds. Both are large populations with special management strategies designed to provide high quality hunting opportunities, older age class deer and high buck:100 doe ratios (30-45:100). For the Sublette herd, this population decreased below the post-hunt population objective in 2004 following significant winter losses when fawn mortality was estimated at 75% and adult mortality
2019 Statewide Fall Hunting Forecast ? Page 11
at 20%, and has remained below desired population objective levels since that time. Despite improved spring moisture and improved shrub productivity from 2009 to 2011, deer losses were extreme from the 2010-2011 winter, with an estimated 70% fawn loss. Dry conditions during 2012 and 2013 resulted in poor production on winter habitats followed by improved moisture and forage production in 2014 and 2015. Good fawn survival during 2014-2016 resulted in population growth, but losses during the 2016-2017 were again extreme. Despite a mild winter and excellent fawn survival during winter 2017-2018, snow depths on Sublette deer winter ranges during 2018-2019 were considerable. Change in ratio surveys conducted in April of 2019 indicated about 50% of the fawns were lost during winter. Adult survival estimates of telemetered Sublette deer from ongoing research with the University of Wyoming indicated 76% survival, with some mortalities occurring as late as May.
The goal of the 2019 hunting season for the Sublette mule deer herd (hunt areas 130, 131, 138142, 146, 150-156, 162) is to minimize buck harvest to maintain postseason buck:doe ratios above 30:100, while still allowing hunting opportunity. Maintaining the current nonresident quota at 600 licenses, coupled with a short hunting season and antler point restrictions (3 points or more) for a third year in a row should help achieve these goals. General license seasons are proposed to run from September 15-October 6, closing on the first Sunday of October.
The Wyoming Range deer herd (hunt areas 134, 135,143-145) also suffered heavy losses during the winter of 2016-2017, with documented losses of all radio-collared fawns and 35% of telemetered adult does, equating to an over-winter loss of approximately 40% of the entire deer herd. Conversely, the winter of 2017-2018 was exceptionally mild and allowed increased fawn survival. However, the winter of 2018-2019 was also severe, but impacted mule deer wintering on the more southern ranges (Evanston-Cokeville) greater than winter ranges near LaBarge.. Change in ratio surveys conducted in April 2019 indicated a loss of nearly 30% of fawns for the entire herd, but a 70% loss in hunt area 134 compared to only a 13% loss in hunt area 143.
The impact of the 2016-2017 winter was seen in December 2017 post season surveys, which indicated that fawn production and survival was low with only 54 fawns:100 does. In 2018, fawn:doe ratios improved slightly to 60 fawns:100 does, but remain lower than the previous fiveyear average (2013-2017) of 64 fawns:100 does. Yearling buck:doe ratios improved from 5:100 in 2017 to 12:100 in 2018 reflecting increased survival. Although adult buck:doe ratios dropped to 29:100 in 2017, they bumped up to 30:100 in 2018, within management objectives.
The southern portion of the Wyoming Range herd will offer 13 days of antlered deer hunting in hunt areas 134 and 135, allowing hunters to take antlered mule deer with three points or more on either antler or any white-tailed deer. General license hunting opportunity for antlered mule deer will run from September 15-October 6 for hunt areas 142-145. In hunt area 145, a total of 50 Limited quota Type 3 licenses valid for any white-tailed deer will be in place from November 1November 15, and unused Type 3 licenses valid for antlerless white-tailed deer will continue from November 16-January 31.
Region G and Region H nonresident deer quotas will remain at 400 and 600 licenses, respectively. Conservative nonresident quotas combined with a short general license seasons for all hunters will help meet the ?special? management criteria of maintaining at least 30 bucks:100 does and maintain quality bucks in the population.
The Wyoming Range Deer Herd (Hunt Areas 134, 135, 143-145) is designated as a special management strategy herd which focuses on providing high quality hunting opportunities, mature age class deer, and high buck:doe ratios (30-45:100). The winter of 2016-2017 was extremely severe, with very heavy losses of fawns and adults documented. The winter of 2017-2018, however was very mild and even though the 2017 fawn crop was not large, most survived and helped with the recovery of this deer herd. A comprehensive deer abundance survey on all winter ranges of the Wyoming Range deer herd in mid-February 2018 (which required two helicopters and 133 hours of flight time to complete) produced a total of 25,317 deer actually observed and an estimate of 30,500 deer. This survey gave managers more confidence that current methods of estimating deer numbers accurately track the population and will be very helpful in monitoring the recovery of this deer herd.
The southern portion of the herd unit will offer 13 days of antlered deer hunting in Hunt Areas 134 and 135. As in the last two years, an antler point regulation will allow hunters to take antlered mule deer with three points or more on either antler in Area 134. In Area 135, hunters will be permitted to take antlered mule deer or any white-tailed deer. General license hunting opportunity for antlered mule deer will run from September 15 - October 6 for Hunt Areas 143-145. In Hunt Area 145, a total of 50 limited quota Type 3 licenses valid for any white-tailed deer will be in place from November 1 to November 15, and unused Type 3 licenses valid for antlerless white-tailed deer will continue from November 16 to January 31. Due to the severity of the 2016-2017 winter and associated deer losses, reductions to the nonresident quota were implemented in both Regions G and H in 2017. These quotas remain the same for 2019, and are 400 in Region G and 600 for Region H. Reduced nonresident quotas combined with a shorter general license season for all hunters will help meet the special management criteria of maintaining at least 30 bucks:100 does and assuring older age class bucks remain in the population.
2019 Statewide Fall Hunting Forecast ? Page 9
The 2018 hunting season produced some exceptional buck deer, and hunter satisfaction was quite high even though many portions of the Wyoming Range were closed due to wildfire control efforts. Even though late winter conditions in the Jackson area were quite severe, deer winter ranges along the east slope of the Wyoming Range did not experience this, and impacts are not expected to be above normal. Southern portions of the herd unit did experience increased snow depths in late winter that translated into higher than normal levels of fawn losses.
The northern portion of the Sublette Deer Herd includes Hunt Areas 146, 150-152, 155 and 156 in the Jackson Region. Again, due to high deer mortality caused by severe winter conditions in 20162017 and the need to promote population growth, the reduced nonresident quota, shortened season, and antler point restriction will remain in place for 2019. Winter range conditions for some portions of the Sublette Herd were relatively harsh in late winter, although the late onset of severe weather will hopefully minimize impacts.
As the Wyoming Range and Sublette mule deer herds recover from the 2016-2017 winter, and numbers begin to increase, it is the intent to increase hunter opportunity in the form of additional hunting days and appropriate increases in nonresident quotas. In addition, the 3-point or better antler point restriction should be removed to allow more opportunity and reduce hunting pressure placed on adult bucks.
2019 Statewide Fall Hunting Forecast ? Page 10
Pinedale
Portions of two mule deer herds are managed in the Pinedale Region: the Sublette and Wyoming Range herds. Both are large populations with special management strategies designed to provide high quality hunting opportunities, older age class deer and high buck:100 doe ratios (30-45:100). For the Sublette herd, this population decreased below the post-hunt population objective in 2004 following significant winter losses when fawn mortality was estimated at 75% and adult mortality
2019 Statewide Fall Hunting Forecast ? Page 11
at 20%, and has remained below desired population objective levels since that time. Despite improved spring moisture and improved shrub productivity from 2009 to 2011, deer losses were extreme from the 2010-2011 winter, with an estimated 70% fawn loss. Dry conditions during 2012 and 2013 resulted in poor production on winter habitats followed by improved moisture and forage production in 2014 and 2015. Good fawn survival during 2014-2016 resulted in population growth, but losses during the 2016-2017 were again extreme. Despite a mild winter and excellent fawn survival during winter 2017-2018, snow depths on Sublette deer winter ranges during 2018-2019 were considerable. Change in ratio surveys conducted in April of 2019 indicated about 50% of the fawns were lost during winter. Adult survival estimates of telemetered Sublette deer from ongoing research with the University of Wyoming indicated 76% survival, with some mortalities occurring as late as May.
The goal of the 2019 hunting season for the Sublette mule deer herd (hunt areas 130, 131, 138142, 146, 150-156, 162) is to minimize buck harvest to maintain postseason buck:doe ratios above 30:100, while still allowing hunting opportunity. Maintaining the current nonresident quota at 600 licenses, coupled with a short hunting season and antler point restrictions (3 points or more) for a third year in a row should help achieve these goals. General license seasons are proposed to run from September 15-October 6, closing on the first Sunday of October.
The Wyoming Range deer herd (hunt areas 134, 135,143-145) also suffered heavy losses during the winter of 2016-2017, with documented losses of all radio-collared fawns and 35% of telemetered adult does, equating to an over-winter loss of approximately 40% of the entire deer herd. Conversely, the winter of 2017-2018 was exceptionally mild and allowed increased fawn survival. However, the winter of 2018-2019 was also severe, but impacted mule deer wintering on the more southern ranges (Evanston-Cokeville) greater than winter ranges near LaBarge.. Change in ratio surveys conducted in April 2019 indicated a loss of nearly 30% of fawns for the entire herd, but a 70% loss in hunt area 134 compared to only a 13% loss in hunt area 143.
The impact of the 2016-2017 winter was seen in December 2017 post season surveys, which indicated that fawn production and survival was low with only 54 fawns:100 does. In 2018, fawn:doe ratios improved slightly to 60 fawns:100 does, but remain lower than the previous fiveyear average (2013-2017) of 64 fawns:100 does. Yearling buck:doe ratios improved from 5:100 in 2017 to 12:100 in 2018 reflecting increased survival. Although adult buck:doe ratios dropped to 29:100 in 2017, they bumped up to 30:100 in 2018, within management objectives.
The southern portion of the Wyoming Range herd will offer 13 days of antlered deer hunting in hunt areas 134 and 135, allowing hunters to take antlered mule deer with three points or more on either antler or any white-tailed deer. General license hunting opportunity for antlered mule deer will run from September 15-October 6 for hunt areas 142-145. In hunt area 145, a total of 50 Limited quota Type 3 licenses valid for any white-tailed deer will be in place from November 1November 15, and unused Type 3 licenses valid for antlerless white-tailed deer will continue from November 16-January 31.
Region G and Region H nonresident deer quotas will remain at 400 and 600 licenses, respectively. Conservative nonresident quotas combined with a short general license seasons for all hunters will help meet the ?special? management criteria of maintaining at least 30 bucks:100 does and maintain quality bucks in the population.
letmgetbig
Active Member
- Messages
- 120
Rainy & wet brings me here again. Don't call me IGNORANT millworks. The average hunter doesn't do squat for conservation. But rather takes more than his share. Hunters are getting it done all right, killing every thing they see. There are lots of reasons for declining Deer.. And all those reasons caused by man, even predator numbers are our fault. There have been 30 Deer hit and killed in front of my house in recent years mostly Does and Fawns. Vehicles literally have a huge impact on Mule Deer numbers. Driving Snake river canyon to work every day you don't have to watch for Deer anymore, Because there aren't any. Or the guy in front of you will clear the way. I found 3 big Deer scouting this year all were killed within the first few hours of opening day. The Deer don't stand a chance... unless we give them one.
BradA
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,951
>
>Doom and gloom. The sky is
>falling. True there might
>me less deer. But
>G & H is still
>hands down one of the
>best mule deer hunts in
>the West. Bottom line
>is it will never be
>what it was 30 years
>ago.
>
> I had a great archery
>hunt this year in G.
> Saw a lot
>of bucks in the two
>days I hunted. And
>the 200"+ buck I shot
>is thanking me for giving
>him a ride back to
>my house, and a warm
>place to stay this winter.
>?
Are you a resident or NR? If your a NR what guide did you go with ?
https://www.sagemuleys.com
>Doom and gloom. The sky is
>falling. True there might
>me less deer. But
>G & H is still
>hands down one of the
>best mule deer hunts in
>the West. Bottom line
>is it will never be
>what it was 30 years
>ago.
>
> I had a great archery
>hunt this year in G.
> Saw a lot
>of bucks in the two
>days I hunted. And
>the 200"+ buck I shot
>is thanking me for giving
>him a ride back to
>my house, and a warm
>place to stay this winter.
>?
Are you a resident or NR? If your a NR what guide did you go with ?
https://www.sagemuleys.com
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,043
>Are you a resident or NR?
>If your a NR what
>guide did you go with
>?
>https://www.sagemuleys.com
I am a NR. Didn't go with a guide. Just good old fashioned DIY.
>If your a NR what
>guide did you go with
>?
>https://www.sagemuleys.com
I am a NR. Didn't go with a guide. Just good old fashioned DIY.
I have seen 53 bucks so far during the season this year. The problem is size. Only one or two were on the lower end of being shootable bucks.
There doesn't need to be a ton of total bucks if a few of them are good ones.
Wyoming is getting more and more like Utah though, where most Utards don't hesitate to shoot anything and everything with legal antlers, and a buck with two points on both sides is considered a "Utah trophy buck". The Wyoming sheep dips are shooting more and more of the smaller bucks now, ones that they used to pass up. That doesn't give what few bucks there are enough time to reach a decent size.
There doesn't need to be a ton of total bucks if a few of them are good ones.
Wyoming is getting more and more like Utah though, where most Utards don't hesitate to shoot anything and everything with legal antlers, and a buck with two points on both sides is considered a "Utah trophy buck". The Wyoming sheep dips are shooting more and more of the smaller bucks now, ones that they used to pass up. That doesn't give what few bucks there are enough time to reach a decent size.
TheDudeAbides
Member
- Messages
- 89
Wyoming was like 'Utah' before the antler restrictions.
Lots of young deer were taken as meat bucks, but there was a lot more deer on the mountain.
There was an older class of deer even with the harvest of young bucks.
In 2016, 42% Hunters were successful in U 144 of G.
In 2017, 22% Hunters were successful in U 144 of G.
The issue that hurt was the winter of 2016-2017.
In 2016-2017 winter.
99% of collared fawns died.
25% of collared does died. (60% being over 6 years old)
It was estimated the 1/4 of the deer herd died that year.
We are 3 years removed from that disaster. Another few years with antler restrictions and mild winters, then they will lift the restrictions and it will get back to people taking meat bucks and others taking trophy bucks.
Weather is the biggest factor in the quality of deer in G and not the hunters in G.
Lots of young deer were taken as meat bucks, but there was a lot more deer on the mountain.
There was an older class of deer even with the harvest of young bucks.
In 2016, 42% Hunters were successful in U 144 of G.
In 2017, 22% Hunters were successful in U 144 of G.
The issue that hurt was the winter of 2016-2017.
In 2016-2017 winter.
99% of collared fawns died.
25% of collared does died. (60% being over 6 years old)
It was estimated the 1/4 of the deer herd died that year.
We are 3 years removed from that disaster. Another few years with antler restrictions and mild winters, then they will lift the restrictions and it will get back to people taking meat bucks and others taking trophy bucks.
Weather is the biggest factor in the quality of deer in G and not the hunters in G.
Just returned from the Greys country. We killed two bucks with 5 tags. Each tag holder had plenty of opportunity to kill a 160? type of buck.
I am a Wyoming resident. I'm not here to throw any particular commercial hunting operation under the bus so I won't, but holy smokes. Ive never seen anything like it...talk about a rotating door of clients and fresh horses hammering the same 5 mile ridgeline pounding every 160?+ type of buck.
They would post up within 400 yards from us already glassing the same basin. We finally pulled camp and left disgusted. Ive never felt so negatively against outfitting on public land. I'm going to discuss the issue with the local biologist.
That outfitter will end up killing 15+ bucks in a small enough area it?ll have impacts for sure. Why would you hunt the resource so hard?! Money is more important I guess...
I am a Wyoming resident. I'm not here to throw any particular commercial hunting operation under the bus so I won't, but holy smokes. Ive never seen anything like it...talk about a rotating door of clients and fresh horses hammering the same 5 mile ridgeline pounding every 160?+ type of buck.
They would post up within 400 yards from us already glassing the same basin. We finally pulled camp and left disgusted. Ive never felt so negatively against outfitting on public land. I'm going to discuss the issue with the local biologist.
That outfitter will end up killing 15+ bucks in a small enough area it?ll have impacts for sure. Why would you hunt the resource so hard?! Money is more important I guess...
Millsworks
Active Member
- Messages
- 481
>Just returned from the Greys country.
>We killed two bucks with
>5 tags. Each tag holder
>had plenty of opportunity to
>kill a 160? type of
>buck.
>
>I am a Wyoming resident. I'm
>not here to throw any
>particular commercial hunting operation under
>the bus so I won't,
>but holy smokes. Ive never
>seen anything like it...talk about
>a rotating door of clients
>and fresh horses hammering the
>same 5 mile ridgeline pounding
>every 160?+ type of buck.
>
>
>They would post up within 400
>yards from us already glassing
>the same basin. We finally
>pulled camp and left disgusted.
>Ive never felt so negatively
>against outfitting on public land.
>I'm going to discuss the
>issue with the local
>biologist.
>
>That outfitter will end up killing
>15+ bucks in a small
>enough area it?ll have impacts
>for sure. Why would you
>hunt the resource so hard?!
> Money is more important
>I guess...
I have seen the same and worse from outfitters/ guides in other states and especially in my home state of West Virginia.
The areas of my home state are now void of trophy bucks and guides.
Hopefully that won't be allowed to happen in Wyoming.
But I don't know the answer to how to manage it and make outfitters happy along with all the tag cuts that reduce opportunity and income for outfitters, especially in certain areas.
>We killed two bucks with
>5 tags. Each tag holder
>had plenty of opportunity to
>kill a 160? type of
>buck.
>
>I am a Wyoming resident. I'm
>not here to throw any
>particular commercial hunting operation under
>the bus so I won't,
>but holy smokes. Ive never
>seen anything like it...talk about
>a rotating door of clients
>and fresh horses hammering the
>same 5 mile ridgeline pounding
>every 160?+ type of buck.
>
>
>They would post up within 400
>yards from us already glassing
>the same basin. We finally
>pulled camp and left disgusted.
>Ive never felt so negatively
>against outfitting on public land.
>I'm going to discuss the
>issue with the local
>biologist.
>
>That outfitter will end up killing
>15+ bucks in a small
>enough area it?ll have impacts
>for sure. Why would you
>hunt the resource so hard?!
> Money is more important
>I guess...
I have seen the same and worse from outfitters/ guides in other states and especially in my home state of West Virginia.
The areas of my home state are now void of trophy bucks and guides.
Hopefully that won't be allowed to happen in Wyoming.
But I don't know the answer to how to manage it and make outfitters happy along with all the tag cuts that reduce opportunity and income for outfitters, especially in certain areas.
Stubaby
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,613
Here?s a non ?PC? question: why do outfitters for mule deer need to exist?
Asking for a friend.
"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
www.s2outdoor.com
www.tojagrid.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
Asking for a friend.
"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
www.s2outdoor.com
www.tojagrid.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
hornkiller
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,211
Because there are alot of stupid people that passed hunter's safety that cant find deer!
mntnguide
Active Member
- Messages
- 339
>
>Here?s a non ?PC? question:
>why do outfitters for mule
>deer need to exist?
>
>Asking for a friend.
>
>
>
>
>"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
>
>www.s2outdoor.com
>www.tojagrid.com
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
If you go fishing in Alaska are you going to rent a boat and figure it out on your own? Or go with someone who knows the water and where to find fish and do it safely?... pretty obvious answer to your question is plenty of people not from the west or people who don't have the ability to hunt the western Wyoming mountains on their own but want a quality experience.
>Here?s a non ?PC? question:
>why do outfitters for mule
>deer need to exist?
>
>Asking for a friend.
>
>
>
>
>"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
>
>www.s2outdoor.com
>www.tojagrid.com
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
If you go fishing in Alaska are you going to rent a boat and figure it out on your own? Or go with someone who knows the water and where to find fish and do it safely?... pretty obvious answer to your question is plenty of people not from the west or people who don't have the ability to hunt the western Wyoming mountains on their own but want a quality experience.
mntnguide
Active Member
- Messages
- 339
>Mntnguide,
>
>Are you a Wyoming guide or
>outfitter?
>Not meaning to pick on anyone
>or turn this into a
>bash, just some questions.
>
>
>Or for any other reader who
>is a wyo guide in
>g or h.
>
>Thanks
Guided for 9 years, but been out of it for years with one of those career things unfortunately. Never guided in G or H, but hunt them for myself every year..i just laugh when people bash outfitters just because they never have used one or just because they hate them. I do everything DIY for myself, but understand the need for outfitters and yes there are a few bad ones that give the rest a bad reputation. Happens in most industries
>
>Are you a Wyoming guide or
>outfitter?
>Not meaning to pick on anyone
>or turn this into a
>bash, just some questions.
>
>
>Or for any other reader who
>is a wyo guide in
>g or h.
>
>Thanks
Guided for 9 years, but been out of it for years with one of those career things unfortunately. Never guided in G or H, but hunt them for myself every year..i just laugh when people bash outfitters just because they never have used one or just because they hate them. I do everything DIY for myself, but understand the need for outfitters and yes there are a few bad ones that give the rest a bad reputation. Happens in most industries
Thanks for the reply.
For the record, I'm not against outfitting. I am against hammering the resource without thinking about the repercussions.
Every industry has those that don't care, but when it's our mule deer herds that they don't care about, folks like me are going to get vocal about it.
For g and h outfitters, are there those that truly hunt mature, trophy class bucks and keep their clients from whack in and stacking younger bucks? And is this something that is discussed amongst the guide circle as a code of ethic?
I don't blame those non-residents who open their wallets for a quality experience, but the guides have a responsibility to move on looking for mature bucks, rather than a rotating door of clients showing these new dudes (the second and third week of the hunt)the same country and leftover bucks the last clients had already been in and have passed, or have already killed the oldest bucks in the bunch.
Maybe the last comment from the guide ( who truly was plenty cordial) to me and my daughter stuck in my craw a little ...?don't kill them all! Leave us a couple!?
I will move locations again this next year to avoid such an experience...
As a resident, I'd support 10% of big game tags allocated to non-residents and for them to be allowed to hunt wilderness without outfitters. I'd also support knockin another week off the g and h hunts to still provide plenty of opportunity but limit the on-going pressure on these deer throughout the season.
To me it's not about whether someone?s livelihood (outfitting) is at stake as much as it is utilizing the resource responsibly but mostly taking care of it so we can continue enjoying it, just like any natural resource business such as logging, commercial fishing, etc.
Good luck to y?all on the rest of your seasons.
For the record, I'm not against outfitting. I am against hammering the resource without thinking about the repercussions.
Every industry has those that don't care, but when it's our mule deer herds that they don't care about, folks like me are going to get vocal about it.
For g and h outfitters, are there those that truly hunt mature, trophy class bucks and keep their clients from whack in and stacking younger bucks? And is this something that is discussed amongst the guide circle as a code of ethic?
I don't blame those non-residents who open their wallets for a quality experience, but the guides have a responsibility to move on looking for mature bucks, rather than a rotating door of clients showing these new dudes (the second and third week of the hunt)the same country and leftover bucks the last clients had already been in and have passed, or have already killed the oldest bucks in the bunch.
Maybe the last comment from the guide ( who truly was plenty cordial) to me and my daughter stuck in my craw a little ...?don't kill them all! Leave us a couple!?
I will move locations again this next year to avoid such an experience...
As a resident, I'd support 10% of big game tags allocated to non-residents and for them to be allowed to hunt wilderness without outfitters. I'd also support knockin another week off the g and h hunts to still provide plenty of opportunity but limit the on-going pressure on these deer throughout the season.
To me it's not about whether someone?s livelihood (outfitting) is at stake as much as it is utilizing the resource responsibly but mostly taking care of it so we can continue enjoying it, just like any natural resource business such as logging, commercial fishing, etc.
Good luck to y?all on the rest of your seasons.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,103
Sounds like you were in an area being overused by one outfitter for some reason. Curious to who that outfitter was? (completely understand that you would not want to put that on the net).
Just an FYI and I have no idea how accurate the G&F's surveys are, but they estimated that 9% of the hunters in G in 2018 were non-residents:
Unit 135 Unit 143 Unit 144 Unit 145 Total
Resident 1688 860 965 818 4331
Non-Resident 120 16 150 139 425
% Non-Resident 7% 2% 13% 15% 9%
This year there were 400 non-residents hunting in the the whole G unit, so though you were overrun, that likely means other areas had less non-resident hunters (because the lower number of non-res G permits given out than historically).
From a non-resident that has hunted G/H a handful of times, I think everyone kind of wants the same thing...a chance to hunt for mature deer in the high country without being totally overrun by other hunters (non-residents would like to hunt it every 3-4 years and residents every year). I just don't think that is actually possible based on the resource. If that is what is wanted then it might be that residents should only be able to hunt it every other year and non-residents every 8.
Would residents support a rule allowing them to only hunt G or H every other year? Non-resident quota could be set to be 10% of those hunters.
I haven't been back in a while because of the crowding when there were 2-3X as many non-residents.
Just an FYI and I have no idea how accurate the G&F's surveys are, but they estimated that 9% of the hunters in G in 2018 were non-residents:
Unit 135 Unit 143 Unit 144 Unit 145 Total
Resident 1688 860 965 818 4331
Non-Resident 120 16 150 139 425
% Non-Resident 7% 2% 13% 15% 9%
This year there were 400 non-residents hunting in the the whole G unit, so though you were overrun, that likely means other areas had less non-resident hunters (because the lower number of non-res G permits given out than historically).
From a non-resident that has hunted G/H a handful of times, I think everyone kind of wants the same thing...a chance to hunt for mature deer in the high country without being totally overrun by other hunters (non-residents would like to hunt it every 3-4 years and residents every year). I just don't think that is actually possible based on the resource. If that is what is wanted then it might be that residents should only be able to hunt it every other year and non-residents every 8.
Would residents support a rule allowing them to only hunt G or H every other year? Non-resident quota could be set to be 10% of those hunters.
I haven't been back in a while because of the crowding when there were 2-3X as many non-residents.
chipc
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,061
Its crappy that one outfitter would pound one area into oblivion. No need to bash outfitters and guided hunters because of the actions of a few though. There are bad apples in every group including DIY guys. There are plenty of posts on here about that too. I sure hope that G bounces back and regains at least some semblance of its former self. Its an awesome area.
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,182
No!
mh
mh
Stubaby
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,613
To those residents who support the outfitters in G and H and also won't put up with not hunting every year........
All it takes is a mirror when 5 years from now when the quality and quantity is even worse.
I have multiple friends from parts of Wyoming who hunt g and h who had never been there 5/6 years ago.
if you sell more tickets to the game then there are seats in the stadium then there's going to be issues.
"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
www.s2outdoor.com
www.tojagrid.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
All it takes is a mirror when 5 years from now when the quality and quantity is even worse.
I have multiple friends from parts of Wyoming who hunt g and h who had never been there 5/6 years ago.
if you sell more tickets to the game then there are seats in the stadium then there's going to be issues.
"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
www.s2outdoor.com
www.tojagrid.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
DonVathome
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,717
For those of you residents who spend a fair amount of time in both G & H do you notice a difference? Meaning is one better then the other for good bucks? Draw odds imply yes but......
boomer
Active Member
- Messages
- 318
I would say that G is slightly better than H, but probably not worth the extra wait time. I have killed my best bucks in G but spend a lot more time scouting there too. I took a pretty nice one in 2017 in H. If your goal is to shoot a mature buck, you should be able to find one in H. If you are only interested in elite bucks (190+) than you may want to wait and draw G.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
