I miss the days

deadibob

deadibob

Long Time Member
Messages
3,057
when nobody knew what a "score" was, let alone how to measure them. Whether it's deer or elk, everyone is so concerned about a stupid number and worried about getting the largest one. Yeah big bucks and bulls are great, but people get so wrapped up in size.

Personally I think one of the best things that could happen to hunting is to stop the record books. If not that, then at least not have the persons name entered with the animal.
 
Scores are just a way to help describe the size of a set of antlers. Whether records exist or not, most people would still rather harvest a rare, large antlered animal.
I'm a trophy hunter, but that's because I like the challenge part of hunting. For me, if I tell someone I'm looking for a 190 buck, it has nothing to do with record books. It's just a description of the amount of bone on a deers head that I think is very rare in that area that would make me feel like I accomplished something good if I were to have success.
I eat the bucks I harvest, but that's not why I hunt. There are much less expensive options for putting 40 lbs of meat in the freezer.
30 years ago people didn't use SCI score to describe the rare, large trophies. Instead we talked width and number of points. Score is just a better, more detailed way to describe size.
Even in the 60?s, nearly all hunters would?ve rather killed a huge, sporting goods store winning trophy buck than a dink 2-point.
Those contests back then were very popular. They gave away Jeeps back then! So clearly size was important then too. When I won something in the 80?s at a sporting goods store, they scored the buck by measuring width, height, and number of points. The current scoring systems are better at portraying the size of antlers than just width, height and number of points.

I don't think it's the number that people are chasing, it's just size and rarity. The score is just the description of size and rarity. And hunters have always been impressed by size and rarity. Like winning the lottery, the size of the prize and rarity of winning makes you feel good. It's fun! And with hunting where one can increase their odds of winning big by working harder than others, it makes it even more awesome to win and score on a big one.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
I remember the days when everyone was looking for a 30 inch buck, the score is really just away to communicate to people on how large an animal is or is not. I got into scoring because when I was guiding hunters wanted to know how big an animal was, I spent countless hours, days and years trying to get as accurate as I could. I am a trophy hunter, I have a lot of hunts under my belt, and I am happy to walk away from a hunt empty handed if I do not find the big mature animal I am after. I learned to hunt young working my way from a fork horn to a four point and in my later teens killed a 30? buck. My daughter is fifteen now and has had some great hunts, going from cow elk and doe deer to harvesting mature bull elk and buck deer. She told me this winter that she wanted to learn how to score an animal, so we pulled out some horns and the lesson began. I have been forchanate to have been in the field with some incredible hunters that are very accurate at adding up numbers and that is how I learned. I like talking to another person who truly does know how to score and I know it takes many years to perfect the art. I have been out in the field the last couple of years with different people , one guy tells me there is a 190? deer and I say how do you know he says I can tell by his frame, but there is know adding numbers . Another guy tells me he's been after a 400? inch bull all fall, I finally sit down and tell him he looks like a real Jack Ass always running around throwing big numbers out but never bringing home anything. I do not think you will have to worry to much longer about score though because the way game and fish departments are pushing for opportunity hunts, instead of trophy hunts or controlled hunts who's going to score a fork horn or a spike Bull.
 
You really think that if there was no record book, people wouldn't judge the size of a buck?
Remember the old sunset and zinik contests. They would use a total of width, height and number of points. People would still put some sort of number to a big buck to judge it's size even if the B&C scoring didn't exist.
People do it with fish all the time, so deer and elk are no different.






see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-19 AT 12:20PM (MST)[p]If there were no record book, you would have a lot fewer Kirt Darner types out there doing whatever it takes to make the record book and there are quite a few people who are in it for the notoriety. There were also lots of animals faked just to get in the record book, so it is an issue.

I do understand that score is a way to describe animals, I have no issue with that part of scoring as a description and I should have been clearer in my opening post. Trophy/score at all costs is my issue. How many people turn their nose up to beautiful mature animals only because they didn't measure up or had too many deductions. There are a lot of guys that hire a guide and are hand-held to an animal only to brag it up to anyone and everyone when they get home, when in actuality they resemble Elmer Fudd.

I have one friend that has tons of trophy photos and brags each one up, but every animal was taken with the help of a well paid guide or a close friend who is an ex-guide. Yet with his own outdoor skills, has had at least two near death experiences from poor judgement and would have surely died in the field, had he not been saved by people rescuing him. Without naming any names, I will bet Big John knows exactly who I'm talking about.

I do remember back in the 70's when Casinos and Wolf's sporting goods gave away Jeeps for big-buck contests. There was a lot of cheating going on then. I worked in a gun store in Utah that used to give rifles and other prizes for the big-buck contest. When Utah ruled that the max prize could only be $500 in value, that pretty much killed big-buck contests.

I like to hunt big animals but I don't have them scored and I rarely show photos to anyone but my close friends. Maybe it's the bragging and contest that it's turned into for a lot of people. Then again maybe I'm just jaded from the years behind a gun counter, listening to all the bullchit stories.

Anyway this is just my rant for the day. Maybe because I'm sitting at home, frustrated that we have four turkey tags to fill, my kids are in school until tomorrow, it's raining cats and dogs and they just re-closed the gate to our favorite canyon right before the opener. ;-)
 
Well, I like seeing the photos of big bucks. It's fun to see all the different configurations and such. The contests I have on this site are to encourage people to share their success with the rest of us, not to somehow turn people into hunting celebrities.
I can't believe that you don't like seeing photos of the big bucks that are being harvested.
I also like hearing short stories of how guys scored on the big ones. Was it luck? Did they scout it out? Did they get him with a bow? Etc. That's stuff that makes me a better hunter.
I would agree that if someone is breaking the law to shoot big bucks, then that's a problem. But the number of people who do that is very few, and those bad guys would probably do it whether they were entering it in a record book or contest anyway.
I like sharing all my adventures, photos and video because I hope those who enjoy them, will share theirs too.
And, I'd bet that in those days you miss, there was a lot more poaching going on then than now. There?s probably more bucks in the record books from the 60?s that we're poached than there are in the 2000?s.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Brian don't get me wrong, I enjoy photos of big bucks also, I just don't share many. I don't care for braggadocio, but humility and respect for the animal . When I talk about liking the days before it was all about numbers for many, it was more about hunting for the adventure of hunting. Nowdays it is common for many to look down on those who hunt for meat or take a lesser animal.

I agree there was more poaching and especially party hunting back in the day. It was much harder to get caught and the ethos was different then. I would dare say most folks party hunted then, especially the larger camps. Everyone wanted to fill mom's tag first.

Hunting has changed, and for the most part it hasn't changed for the better. For many it is about money and glory. There is no denying that. I'm sure it would have been the way that it is now, much earlier had there been the same opportunities such as big-money guides, T.V. shows, specialty magazines, internet and other modern communications.
 
>when nobody knew what a "score"
>was, let alone how to
>measure them. Whether it's deer
>or elk, everyone is so
>concerned about a stupid number
>and worried about getting the
>largest one. Yeah big bucks
>and bulls are great, but
>people get so wrapped up
>in size.
>
>Personally I think one of the
>best things that could happen
>to hunting is to stop
>the record books. If not
>that, then at least not
>have the persons name entered
>with the animal.

You miss the days? Ha, I would bet you weren't even alive when the B&C scoring system was in place and talked about by the hunting community.....in other words, it's been around a LONG time. Longer than all of us.

What hasn't been around as long and has changed dramatically, IMO, is the social media tidal wave coupled with many television folks that have utilized the scoring system for advertising (money) without ever officially using it. We don't have a record book problem.....we have a people problem!

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
Score is something that can be argued about forever and there are good points on both sides. Boone-Crockett does a lot more than scoring, so I will say the org has the best of intentions. As far as any sportsman orgs out there, B&C and TRCP are two of the best.
 
Great post BOB!

I suspect it will get a ton of play.

Score is just a new measurement to figure out how large the animal really is.. Most of us see these animals through pictures so we really don't know and unfortunately it's become something much bigger than that. I don't mind it, I just don't really like it.

WITH THAT SAID>>>>>> THIS IS exactly why I love turkey hunting SO much! Think about it,, your neighbor shoots a Tom and maybe the beard length is measured but beyond that the discussion is how dang cool the hunt was! Neighbors aren't pissed off at each other, families aren't ripped apart and there is the purity of a genuinely "happy for the other guy" feeling when you hear about someone taking a Tom. It really is the last of the last pure hunting, IMO.
 
FOUNDER.

Did you win one if those sweet Bronco II over at Sunset sports?

Now I miss the days of mustang II and Bronco II



"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I admire hunters that hold out for that perfect buck or bull, just as much as the doe meat hunter - although i dream of the big buck almost exclusively. I think we forget, we are all on the same team.

Whether we want to put meat in the freezer, test our skills taking that mature animal, or just want a reason to get into the woods with friends or family, we all love to hunt, and that is the common thread.

September can't come soon enough.
 
>FOUNDER.
>
>Did you win one if those
>sweet Bronco II over at
>Sunset sports?
>
>Now I miss the days of
>mustang II and Bronco II
>
>
>
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

I got my first shotgun at sunset sports for my 12th birthday. I still own it 35 years later. I also have owned 2 Bronco II's, but they kind of suck. I have a soft spot for Mustang II's, at least the Cobras. Or maybe the soft spot is for Charlies Angel's and the Blue Mustang II on the show ;-)
 
>>when nobody knew what a "score"
>>was, let alone how to
>>measure them. Whether it's deer
>>or elk, everyone is so
>>concerned about a stupid number
>>and worried about getting the
>>largest one. Yeah big bucks
>>and bulls are great, but
>>people get so wrapped up
>>in size.
>>
>>Personally I think one of the
>>best things that could happen
>>to hunting is to stop
>>the record books. If not
>>that, then at least not
>>have the persons name entered
>>with the animal.
>
>You miss the days? Ha,
>I would bet you weren't
>even alive when the B&C
>scoring system was in place
>and talked about by the
>hunting community.....in other words, it's
>been around a LONG time.
> Longer than all of
>us.
>
>What hasn't been around as long
>and has changed dramatically, IMO,
>is the social media tidal
>wave coupled with many television
>folks that have utilized the
>scoring system for advertising (money)
>without ever officially using it.
> We don't have a
>record book problem.....we have a
>people problem!
>
>BOHNTR )))---------->


There's a lot more record books out there than just B&C. Yes the scoring system has been in place a long time but it's only been the last 30 or so years that it has been used as a reference by the common hunter. And I agree with you, we have a people problem.
 
Deadeye and I like to butt heads about the Creedmoor but here's proof he can be right.

I have to say, to you younger guys who know no different, it was a more romantic and adventurous time when we hunted for ourselves and for the animal and we always had deep respect for the adventure.

When I show my pics or collection of animals, the FIRST thing most guys ask about is the score. They have no interest in hearing about a 12 day backpack trips or the perils of making such a trip, the years of saving, the blood, sweat and tears.

I'm sure this doesn't apply to all the stand-up guys on MM but nowadays it seems like it's ONLY about the inches and very little import is given to the actual hunt, animal and adventure.

Many on here will have no idea what I'm talking about because they didn't live through that glorious time. Such is life.

Zeke

#livelikezac
 
you can thank Kurt Darner for the start of the score obsession....then videos....Muley crazy.....hunting fool....videos.....social media.....blah blah blah.....






497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
>you can thank Kurt Darner for
>the start of the score
>obsession....then videos....Muley crazy.....hunting fool....videos.....social media.....blah
>blah blah.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg



That's kind of funny because I was specifically thinking of Muley Crazy when I started this. Leave it to a convicted poacher to get everyone ramped up about who kills the biggest bucks.
 
When I started deer hunting there were only two categories: nice bucks, and really nice bucks. It was like Christmas, I never knew what I'd get but I was happy either way. Finding one and putting the shot together was success. Of course, this was California, which is not Colorado.
 
Common first question I hear asked today is "what did he score?"

Never nice one, one shot, quick kill, good hunt, etc.

Asking score is so they can determine if it was a nice one or not. Asking score means the opinion of the hunter doesn't matter...
 
For me, I much rather enjoy reading about the story of the hunt instead of whether the buck scored 150, 160 or 180. The details of the experience makes for a much more exciting post.

Just my $0.02
 
Zeke is right the ADVENTURE is EVERYTHING and it is where you find it.... I still feel like a little kid out there and I'm knocking on 60 in a couple
 
If nothing, it's a testament to advertising and mob mentality. People going f king crazy over antlers, score, shooter buck, whatever catch phrase nickname of the year the small wang jacked truck flattys come up with.

It's no different than suckers going ape shut over the latest camo pattern of the day and paying Rodeo drive prices on clothes to sit in the safe brush with.

A fool and his money will always be soon separated. It just takes a nudge from someone to convince them what to separate for.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
that's true, when I was a kid I always wore my oldest jeans/cloths hunting. my dad always wore boots and a cowboy hat. now hunters are trying to dress and look like navy seals.
 
>that's true, when I was a
>kid I always wore my
>oldest jeans/cloths hunting. my dad
>always wore boots and a
>cowboy hat. now hunters
>are trying to dress and
>look like navy seals.

They want their Clothes to match their Guns!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
No Price Tags upon their Heads!

Not every Big Buck or Bull had a Name!

And Not a F'N FLATTY in Sight!

It was a Different World!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Deadeye and I like to butt
>heads about the Creedmoor but
>here's proof he can be
>right.
>
> I have to say, to
>you younger guys who know
>no different, it was a
>more romantic and adventurous time
>when we hunted for ourselves
>and for the animal and
>we always had deep respect
>for the adventure.
>
>When I show my pics or
>collection of animals, the FIRST
>thing most guys ask about
>is the score. They have
>no interest in hearing about
>a 12 day backpack trips
>or the perils of making
>such a trip, the years
>of saving, the blood, sweat
>and tears.
>
>I'm sure this doesn't apply to
>all the stand-up guys on
>MM but nowadays it seems
>like it's ONLY about the
>inches and very little import
>is given to the actual
>hunt, animal and adventure.
>
>Many on here will have no
>idea what I'm talking about
>because they didn't live through
>that glorious time. Such is
>life.
>
>Zeke
>
>#livelikezac


Zeke - +1

Ppl either get it or don't! I have killed maybe 30+ big game animals. that probably places me firmly in the ?less experienced? category in this MM crowd. Nothing I have ever shot would impress a true trophy hunter. But I am damn proud of every one, and remember them all as trophies as well as fine eating. I also dream of bagging that monster buck or bull each and every time I go out, but am also 100% satisfied with whatever it is I ultimately choose to take. I think that the non-trophy hunters sincerely feel like the score guys (even if they hard working and skilled) are missing out on something, some essence of hunting if you will, if simply score=success. I think though that selective hunting (trophy hunting) is fine if you are limiting YOURSELF in what you are after or willing to shoot. As a proxy for older, mature, animals that are wiser and more difficult I actually think it could be a great thing. But so often, score is used AGAINST other hunters, belittling their efforts, or demeaning the animals, or promoting bad unethical behaviors on social media and certainly even more so when no one is looking. I don't see that part of it changing. The bad apples are not, and never will be looking for a rich experience. So, wrapping it up. I think non-trophy hunters ?get it.? And some trophy hunters get it, and maybe even experience things most other hunters never can or will. But the rest can go choke on the massive antlers of whatever poor hawg or beast or stud or pig in their hit-list that they just put the smackdown or laid the hurt on.
 
Change is inevitable.
The Fall hunt question during my youth was, "did ya git yur buck?" and if you replied "yup". Then the follow up question was how big? Occasionally you could puff out your chest and say, "got me a 4 point", but "forkies" were also cool.
There has always been value in bigger animals, but back in those day hunting seemed more about harvesting something, than than it was about the class of buck you were taking. I also have to say I don't miss the opening day crowds of that era (200,000+ Utah or Colorado Nimrods hunting all at the same time).

For me and mine, it's always been about the adventure, and we seem to have much less desire or need to take take an animal that is not mature. Unlike my youthful days, we (me and mine) don't rely on feeding our family with what we bring home. And if we come home without anything, it's OK, which was not always true in my younger years when there was pressure to "git yur buck"! In my first 30 seasons I rarely missed punching my deer tag. In the last 20 I've punched a deer tag twice but the annual adventure has never lost it's luster.

So has hunting changed for the better?
Not sure! Maybe it has for me?
200 inches, or Zero inches both equal awesome times in my book. And, breaking the "speed limit" has never determined the quality of the trip, if you get my drift!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-19 AT 03:41PM (MST)[p]I agree with the value system that Adventurewriter expressed.....I had a great Uncle who lived about sixty miles south of Jackson Hole...he had a barn full of elk antlers...
As a young feller then I asked him why he never entered any in the record books..His reply was ? record books are for city hunters.?
I am not arguing with anybody here ...I know if I am ever lucky enough to walk upon a worthy buck that I have hunted and eventually shot,I am humbled and thankful..and know not to gloat because my time also is limited...hth
 
I also miss the days when yayhoos didn't have the internet and ask for advice on where to go hunting because they apply for places they've never been.
 

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