Wolf researcher on Meateater

hossblur

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
10,520
Check it out on Meateater Podcast.


It will be tough to listen to the actual truth about "super wolves" for some.

I really enjoyed her openly talking about Yellowstone wolves wandering around in Utah and Colorado. Showing how great the investment in BGF has been.

I thought it was a pretty frank discussion.

Yup DW she discusses Colorado, (hint, just like Utah they are already there). Her point, GET A MANAGEMENT STRATEGY TOGETHER.






"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Somehow I found it all by myself, guessing you can manage?




"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-04-19 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]I've hunted the same unit in southern CO for close to 50 years.

In 1984 I was out calling coyotes on a friends ranch, sitting on top of a haystack, when I sho...uh, saw, my first one.

I've seen a few since then, seen evidence of wolf kills on elk and deer. Even had one walk through my camp 6 years ago.

I dont think its gonna get any better....wolf 'introduction' just isn't needed.

Some folks on the east side of the valley have bragged about buying wolves and wolf-dog hybrids, breeding them, then turning them loose.

I mention that because when I complained about wolves to the local game and fish office I was told that wolf shooting would bring a heavy fine. During that same conversation I was also told that I must have seen a hybrid not a true wolf.

I dont think there is a law against shooting hybrids.

?Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. "
 
Still got 20 minutes of it left. What was supposed to be my big light coming on take away moment? What is my attachment to big game forever in your mind? Have you ever read "I never saw another butterfly"? You do remember I grew up in Minnesota, spent 2 yrs in Ely studying wildlife biology and in the process heard David Mech speak numerous times and read many of his research papers not just the readers digest version? If you ever get to thinkin yer the epitome of a great white hunter let me know, well go on a buck hunt in ne Minnesota. Not a trophy B&C buck hunt, I mean the first 6" long spike that stumbles by us buck hunt. It will be a humbling experience for ya.? Now I need to go back and read your OP again as I cant remember if there was a question in there I neglected. I still have a hundred comments and as many questions but let's start with these and see where it goes. I am bendin nails today so my responses will be spaced a bit but I will return to this thread.




#livelikezac
 
Its a pretty simple point, which I guess DW missed while writing his autobiography.

They are on the landscape. In Utah and Colorado we will eventually have 2 types of wolves. The question of "reintroduction" was answered decades ago. Not by Land or Yvon like DW wants to believe. It was answered by wolves walking out of Canada.

The folks who gained, LAWYERS and LOBBYISTS. On one side HSUS, on the other BGF. Both making millions by issuing press releases.

All that is happening now is two sides yelling. The wolves will walk into my state, and DW. We can pizz away our limited resources as hunters on lobbyists, or we can get management in place.

Yup we are going to see lawsuits, they cost money. Perhaps we get a war chest built, rather than building Ryan Benson a new house?





"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-04-19 AT 10:56PM (MST)[p]
How many decades has it been since they were in Utah or Colorado? It will take another century or two for them to establish themselves on their own, if they can at all, let nature run its course. Did you even listen to that podcast? I noticed you avoided my questions so I'll only ask for the answer to one, have you read "I never saw another butterfly"? I'd welcome an intelligent engaging conversation if you'd care to talk to me rather than at me. Here's one more for ya, are the wolves they propose to introduce in Colorado bigger than the wolves that once roamed this state? What you and grizz cant seem to comprehend is we are ruled by liberal Democrats here in Colorado. We have no shot of stopping introduction or establishing a management plan, none! It will be on the ballot in 2020 and wolves will hit the ground here before 2024, watch! Utah is ruled by those evil land grabbing Republicans you and grizz hate and you have a shot of stopping introduction, and if they come on their own immediately setting up a management plan. But keep beating those evil Republicans up and before long, you'll be just as f'd as we are! How the two of you can't see that light is beyond me.




#livelikezac
 
LAST EDITED ON May-04-19 AT 11:23PM (MST)[p]They are here. Have been for a long time. Google Canadian Lynx Utah. It got caught by the trappers in the Uintas. About 1/2 mile from where I hunt elk. They were catching wolves. Its about the worst kept secret on the planet. The grey wolf is only bigger here because it has bigger food. For a dude who studied wildlife biology in Minnesota, you'd think you know that.

Your correct. It will pass in Colorado. So how's all that money BGF took done? That means also that my state will be surrounded by wolves. The millions we handed BGF won't have amounted to squat.

Here's a secret though. While your conspiracy theory runs wild, CWD is ACTUALLY killing undulates. It has the potential to ACTUALLY end hunting as we know. Wolves are sexy, but that disease is the real issue. All that money that hunters poured into wolf fights, could actually have helped in R&D.

Rob Bishop was the Chair of Natural Resources. He is a Repub, and my personal congressman. What did he do to stop wolf expansion? In case you didn't notice, introduction happened in R states.

There is a book perhaps you need to read about a boy "who cried wolf". Its been decades since reintroduction. At some point shouldn't wolves have already destroyed hunting?

More hunting is destroyed monthly in Utah and Colorado by development than any wolf could do in 1000 yrs. But if the powers that be can keep you occupied, you will be too busy to notice. It ain't copper bullets, it ain't canines, its loss of habitat, followed by disease. I wonder how much ground could have been bought for what we've handed lawyers and lobbyists. And what do we have to show for it?




"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
You could have just said no you don't wish to have an intelligent engaging conversation, you would have saved us both some time.



#livelikezac
 
My apologies, the book I mentioned is "a sound of thunder". Read it nearly 40yrs ago and the title slipped my memory, but it made an impression relative to this conversation. You should give it a read.


#livelikezac
 
So Hoss?

You Spend Time on the North Slope!

I Spend quite a bit a time on the South Slope!

How Many Wolves do You GUESSTIMATE We have in TARDville?

I'll admit We have a few!

I'll also admit not many of them Survive in this state!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
It amazes me all the wolf experts out there and when I am hunting them all winter I rarely see other people. I agree they do make it into Colorado and Utah but they rarely make it out alive. You would know by pairs would be seen and than a pack would be established. What Grizz doesn't tell you DW is how Radical wolf lovers are raising them and dumping them out amoungest us, or was that not on the podcast. I'm sorry I do not follow the Meateater , I hunt myself.
 
>
>Just to provide a little background
>on the book DW mentioned.
>The "plot" section gives just
>enough background to understand the
>parallel to this topic.
>
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sound_of_Thunder
>
>Ever consider this butterfly theory as
>it could be related to
>climate change?

Sure NVB. Everything we do, consume, touch, has a rippling affect from that point forward in time. We just don't have the ability to know what that affect is. I dont think it takes a deep thinker to recognize that. Big things have bigger affects of course, like introducing wolves in Yellowstone.


#livelikezac
 
>https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/environment/article195333889.html

The article leads the reader to believe there would be just as many wolves now due to natural migration as there are due to the artificial migration (release, the butterfly effect) of wolves into that area. I disagree with that. Some politicians saw the writing on the wall and put conditions on the release that were agreed to but later not followed and management was delayed at least 10yrs past the promised threshold of management kicking in. That's where the bitterness comes from as much as anything, being dealt dirty. It'll be the same here in Colorado. Your thoughts NVB?


#livelikezac
 
>
>So Hoss?
>
>You Spend Time on the North
>Slope!
>
>I Spend quite a bit a
>time on the South Slope!
>
>
>How Many Wolves do You GUESSTIMATE
>We have in TARDville?
>
>I'll admit We have a few!
>
>
>I'll also admit not many of
>them Survive in this state!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

6 summers ago we got real friendly with the gov trapper. We were up there a ton, he liked a cold beer.

Short answer 7 different genetic strains.

So I'm gonna assume a bunch more since then?

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
They could kick 50 out into the flattops tomorrow with the same protections we give coyotes, which is none, and they would still establish themselves because of the reasons the wolf biologist gave in hoss's podcast. They're opportunistic and as elusive as mountain lions.


#livelikezac
 
DW, if you're gonna take a shot at my intelligence, the proper title is helpful. I've read the book, in fact I think Ashton Kutcher did a movie on it?

One of the topics Diane and Steve discussed was perspective. You assume that the butterfly effect started on reintroduction. We all have a perspective based on our lifetime.

The issue isn't whether you want wolves on the landscape. Even discussing it is a waste of time, energy, money.

I agree totally, the issue of management afterwards is infuriating because deals were made in good faith.

BUT, there will never be an irradication. EVER.

Despite all the "big coyote, shovel" yapping, that isn't stopping them either.

So the choice is waste time, money, energy fighting 1990' s battles over and over, or focus on management.

Somehow Wyoming(again they are the gold standard) figured it out. Idaho too. Management will get easier as more states show they can be killed, yet still have populations.

The butterfly effect is interesting in theory, but one could argue that for this subject, the effect started the day Europeans landed west of the Mississippi.

Wolves are back. Its not BHA fault. Not Land Tawney. Not Yvon or Patagonia. They are back because more folks wanted it that way than didn't. Pretty simple explanation.

To me, the real frustration lies with the sides. The wolf " is a magical, mystical, creature" vs the " wolf is the right hand of Satan" folks.

To a hunter. Wolves are a way down the list behind habitat, access, disease, etc. Sure They are an issue, but they ain't near the issue the screamers on both sides want them to be.

Dad taught me early, "follow the money". Simply look who profits on both sides. Simple fact is wolves have become a million dollar industry.



"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
So Do Tell Me/Us Hoss!

Any TARD Hunter that Spends alot of Time in the Back Woods/Uinta's of TARDville knows and will agree We have a few Wolves and have had for many years!

But Never an Over-population or an Explosion of Wolves!

You Wanna SPLAIN that for us?

Since People Don't believe me,Maybe You can Tell us?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>DW, if you're gonna take a
>shot at my intelligence, the
>proper title is helpful.
>I've read the book, in
>fact I think Ashton Kutcher
>did a movie on it?

Wasn't meant to be a shot at your intelligence, my apologies if it came across that way. I wouldn't know if Kutcher made a movie about it, maybe so. Was genuinely curious if you'd read it. It made a lasting impression on me at 13 or 14 years old, so long ago I'd forgotten the title, but still remember the message.


>
>One of the topics Diane and
>Steve discussed was perspective.
>You assume that the butterfly
>effect started on reintroduction.
>We all have a perspective
>based on our lifetime.
>
>The issue isn't whether you want
>wolves on the landscape.
>Even discussing it is a
>waste of time, energy, money.

Agree. As I said it will be on Colorados ballot in 2020 and they will be on the ground prior to 2024. I know that you're implying they're already here but a large introduction of a northern Alberta wolf is not the same as natural migration thru natural succession. A large introduction is the epitome of the butterfly effect.


>
>I agree totally, the issue of
>management afterwards is infuriating because
>deals were made in good
>faith.
>
>BUT, there will never be an
>irradication. EVER.
>


Agree. I've said many times here as well as other places, poison is the only way they were eradicated last time and that will not be allowed in the future.


>Despite all the "big coyote, shovel"
>yapping, that isn't stopping them
>either.
>

Again, where I grew up makes me completely aware of this fact.



>So the choice is waste time,
>money, energy fighting 1990' s
>battles over and over, or
>focus on management.
>
>Somehow Wyoming(again they are the gold
>standard) figured it out.
>Idaho too. Management will
>get easier as more states
>show they can be killed,
>yet still have populations.
>

But with natural migration that's a long wiggle down the road. Fighting introduction plans is something that should be done IMO.



>The butterfly effect is interesting in
>theory, but one could argue
>that for this subject, the
>effect started the day Europeans
>landed west of the Mississippi.
>
>
>Wolves are back. Its not
>BHA fault. Not Land
>Tawney. Not Yvon or
>Patagonia. They are back
>because more folks wanted it
>that way than didn't.
>Pretty simple explanation.
>

The first introduction occurred right about the time of BHA's inception (I think) so no one is holding that against them. But I do hope they're involved on behalf of hunters going forward. Theres a big Wildlife Commissioners meeting later this week in Grand Junction, on the agenda is a group proposing to ban the trapping and hunting of Bobcats. I'll be curious to see if BHA is represented at that meeting. I really wish you and Griz would spend your time on this site posting about all the great things BHA is doing rather than wasting your time running down other Sportsman's organizations. It turns people off. That is the biggest reason I spend so much time needling the two of you about BHA. I'm supposed to catch up with Justin Cross sometime this month and have a couple cold ones and talk about BHA, face to face rather than a platform like this that is conducive to sniping that I'm as guilty of as anyone. I believe he's the regional director for my area only lives about 10 miles from me.


>To me, the real frustration lies
>with the sides. The
>wolf " is a magical,
>mystical, creature" vs the "
>wolf is the right hand
>of Satan" folks.
>
>To a hunter. Wolves are
>a way down the list
>behind habitat, access, disease, etc.
> Sure They are an
>issue, but they ain't near
>the issue the screamers on
>both sides want them to
>be.



Agree, just let us treat em like coyotes when they turn em loose. We all know we'll never shoot or trap em out.



>Dad taught me early, "follow the
>money". Simply look who
>profits on both sides. Simple
>fact is wolves have become
>a million dollar industry.
>
>
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


#livelikezac
 
DW, it may surprise you but I agree with just about everything you said in your last post. I don't disagree with Hoss's basic beliefs either. I think you're on the same side of the basic issue. It's the details you can't agree on.

I'm no wolf expert by any means. Hardly know anything about them. We have had wolf sighting reports in northeast NV for at least 15 years. Now we are getting them in the northwest part of the state, no doubt spillover from the Lassen CA pack. I know I dont want a large reintroduction here. My experience observing other mammal introductions is that it's a much faster way to get a viable population than by immigration. I could guess as to why but it would just that.

The real problem is exactly what you face in CO. Wolves, lions, bears... all those so called apex predators have an almost romantic attraction to those who don't fully understand the bigger picture. The only other animal that compares is the feral horse. People go crazy over them.

One things for sure, fighting amongst ourselves doesn't accomplish anything.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-05-19 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]Here's some info for you guys that think the SSS will work for you. Wolves were NOT re-introduced into Montana. We now have between 7-900 depending on what you believe. I guarantee you people were shooting "big coyotes". As has been said, work for a management plan right now. mtmuley
 
Doesn't surprise me NVB, probably true with most of us on this site. I doubt many believe they can stay ahead with SSS Mtmuley but it's the only club in are bag so we gotta play it.



#livelikezac
 
Although I have made the SSS argument many times I know if it came down to it, I wouldnt. One dead wolf, just like one dead mustang, isnt worth it to me. Maybe I'm a chicken but I'm an honest chicken. SSS isnt enough to keep them in check anyway.
 
With 8 months of hunting and the winter trapping season we harvest a good number of wolves every year. We wouldn't put a dent in the harvest numbers without the government hunters. There were 109 live stock depredations last year. There are units and drainages where the depredation is so bad that the game finally moves into towns and sub divisions, alotof country with no game, we call these dead zones.. We had a terrible winter up here in the Central Mountains this year not only did we loose a lot of deer, I started finding big mature bulls that were pushed into the bottom of creek beds, channeling through the deep snow until the wolves showed up and made simple work of them. I pulled six trophy dead heads out last month, another friend pulled 5 out and I keep getting calls on more daily the count is 26 bulls so far. I spent the winter tracking one wolf pack, turning down shots at immature wolves waiting for my chance at the Alfa Male, they took me through 100s of miles of country that only a predator knows how to trvavel. I took hundreds of pictures, even got pictures of the pack killing a bull a few days after he shed his horns. You can read all you want, listen to anyone and everyone about wolves, but you have no glue what your getting into unless you follow a track out. They can change habits as fast as the land scape changes.
 
Where are You Located/Hunting Hawkbill?

I' m waiting for a Reply from Hoss!

We have a few Wolves here!

The Wolves that Venture in usually don't make it back out of this State alive!

There was a Collared Wolf a few years back that ventured through the very Corner of the state & went in to Colorado,then ventured back North but never made it back across the state line leaving!

There's been a couple caught in Traps over the years!

A Guy Calling Coyotes shot one a couple of years ago!

(((It was a Big Coyote though!:D)))

I've seen a couple in my day!

No!

We don't have alot of them!

But Having them here as longs we have,I'm gonna have Hoss SPLAIN why they've never really Expanded or Populated more than they have?
















I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>So Do Tell Me/Us Hoss!
>
>Any TARD Hunter that Spends alot
>of Time in the Back
>Woods/Uinta's of TARDville knows and
>will agree We have a
>few Wolves and have had
>for many years!
>
>But Never an Over-population or an
>Explosion of Wolves!
>
>You Wanna SPLAIN that for us?
>
>
>Since People Don't believe me,Maybe You
>can Tell us?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

8:100 bull cow ratio, and I ain't seen 100 cows in 5 years combined.

I also ain't seen bears up there. But they are there.

Ain't seen cats, they are too.

Ain't seen Bigfoot.

Did see the Rainbow People, that was fun.

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I live in Bellevue Idaho, and I'm not coming on here as a wolf expert. I am just a guy that got caught up in the Wolf introduction, and a small group of us worked tirelessly for years to get a hunting season on them. I have hunted most of the Western states, Alaska and M?XICO . I loved catching Bears and Lions with my dogs. I remember cutting the first wolf track in the valley, watching theses packs all build up for years. All the packs around us had 12 to 14 wolves in each pack before we were able to hunt them. Hundreds of problem wolves were killed a year by government trappers before the start of hunting seasons. I do not hate wolves either I highly respect them, in fact there is nothing harder to hunt or more rewarding than taking out the Alpha male after years of pursuing the pack. I know where to find the packs and where their going to end up next. There are also the lone travelers, they never really seem to settle down they just keep roaming. These are the wolves that are dipping down into Utah,Colorado and Arizona. I agree with you not many make it out alive. There are to many guides and spotters and good hunters in Utah for natural migration to ever work. Now Colorado is possibly a whole other problem with the way they are leaning. Introduction is easy, waiting and watching big game herds being destroyed for 10 years until you have a enough wolves in the state that it is imposible to ever get rid of them. I shot one of the first legal wolves in Idaho, 10 of the worst radical enviromental groups got togeather and threatened to sue the state of Idaho if they did not give out the names of the first 4 guys who killed wolves in Idaho. I got a call from the Idaho attorney general, she said we have no choice but to give out your names to these groups you are not protected under the freedom of information act. I'm glad that it is over now, and Sportsman?s names are protectEd now under a new law passed by legislators. I do agree with Hoss about having a management plan in place instead of a bunch of radicals showing up and getting their agendas passed. You can get into wolf introduction as deep as you want to , all the radical environmental groups are over in Washington and Oregon write now, as soon as there done there, they are coming to Colorado and Utah. The answer to your last question, I know a lot of old time generational family?s here, I have spoken with several old timers that have seen Wolves off and on over their lives in Idaho, they would pass through their ranches once or twice a year and never really bother anything, they seemed to be very shy and really never settled down in one drainage. Everyone of them says the wolves they saw then were smaller than the big Canadian Greys that we have now
 
LAST EDITED ON May-06-19 AT 08:18AM (MST)[p]DW. See now we are to a good point.

I did not go to Boise to the Rendevous for BHA. I've never been to a pint night(I do not like Fisher Beer). I've never met Grizz.

However, I've read a ton on the "green decoy" propaganda. I've done my homework. And when you start quoting and pushing talking points from one of the many shadow groups formed to push "land transfer" any point you make afterwards is meaningless.

It would be like me quoting David Hogg on guns.

Don't forget. Utah is the birthplace of SFW/BGF. To you its some Utard thing. Its sounds almost fairy tale like that a government would gleefully hand over millions to private interest groups, let them set regs, etc. I rip 2 orgs. In fact, I simply point out facts. There isn't controversy over the money, the controversy is how hard its worked on to hide it.

RMEF put out a warning on wolf reintro. I agree 100% with them. But I'm guessing, RMEF isn't going to bankrupt itself fighting something that will lose.

WARNING: The Utah boys bit. The Arizona boys didn't. I GUARANTEE you that $FW sees this as an opportunity(never let a crisis go to waste). While you worried about BHA, I 100% guarantee that $fw is going to offer a way to "raise money for the fight". Don't get so hyperfocused that you lose sight of an actual wolf in sheep's clothing.

Let us know how your face to face went.

I've said it a ton. Show me where BHA is doing the things you accuse them of, ill jump. But rumor ain't proof, and in the meantime they are doing things I applaud, LWCF the most recent.


As to Meateater, when discussions come up, I sure hope we get folks like Diane in the room. Of course she's pro wolf, but I think she's a pragmatist as well. We need more of her, on both sides, less of the vitriol on the flanks of both sides

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
"So the choice is waste time, money, energy fighting 1990' s battles over and over, or focus on management." -Hoss

Are these really the only two choices when it comes to wolves? And if those are really the only two options, why does it have to be either/or only? Isn't there room for a variety of strategies?

I don't know many BGF advocates. I know they have been able to pull the wool over the wolves eyes in the Utah legislature to make themselves rich, but not sure how many hunters in general or even on this forum would say they are advocates for that group.

The whole "management" thing would work better if the other side would come to the table in good faith and allow the management to take place.
 
> Where are You Located/Hunting Hawkbill?
>
>
>I' m waiting for a Reply
>from Hoss!
>
>We have a few Wolves here!
>
>
>The Wolves that Venture in usually
>don't make it back out
>of this State alive!
>
>There was a Collared Wolf a
>few years back that ventured
>through the very Corner of
>the state & went in
>to Colorado,then ventured back North
>but never made it back
>across the state line leaving!
>
>
>There's been a couple caught in
>Traps over the years!
>
>A Guy Calling Coyotes shot one
>a couple of years ago!
>
>
>(((It was a Big Coyote though!:D)))
>
>
>I've seen a couple in my
>day!
>
>No!
>
>We don't have alot of them!
>
>
>But Having them here as longs
>we have,I'm gonna have Hoss
>SPLAIN why they've never really
>Expanded or Populated more than
>they have?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

I used to work around a cement finisher who decided to shoot one of those "Mexican red coyotes". I'm guessing his stint in the federal lockup wasn't worth it.

Why haven't they expanded? Who says they haven't? Ask Hawkbill how many he saw this year, and he was looking. No. I doubt the Uintas are like Yellowstone.

But did you listen to the podcast? Idaho didn't have a formal system. They basically dumped them out of a trailer. In N Idaho. We cut tracks between Eagle and Emmitt a few weeks ago. Far from N Idaho. They cover ground.

I haven't seen one. We cut tracks on N slope road last spring as the snow was receeding. Guys seeing them up by Whitney. Family seeing them outside of Lyman.

Might be luck? Eventually they will find Federer or Hardware. Thatscwhen I think we will have a resident population.



"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Again hoss, prop up BHA don't denigrate another group. The "if your house burns down it makes mine look better" vitriol doesn't wash with most, I know it doesn't with me



#livelikezac
 
LAST EDITED ON May-06-19 AT 10:07AM (MST)[p]And how did the LWCF pass? On the local BHA Facebook page a post was made the thank our local senator for voting yes. You should see the comments. Oh ya, he was a Republican......



#livelikezac
 
Hoss you don't need to come on here and keep pushing BHA. I believe I said in one of our conversations that I would never join another hunting organization and I want to tell you why. There were 20 to 30 of us concerned sportsman here in Idaho trying desperately to get the wolves off the endangered species list we were all from small communities in Idaho we would meet at the capitol or with legislators, 99% percent of the sportsman talked a big game like the three SSS but in reality they we're afraid to death of the radical enviromentalists who were all threatening prioson time, lifetime loss of hunting privileges or worse harm to your family. We tried getting the Elk, Deer and Sheep foundations involved and many more organizations but they to were afraid to get involved. Oh in the end they all cried out that they were the ones that really made a difference. What made it really happen was individual sportsman from different walks of life getting together, throwing town hall meetings , getting the legislators and Governor to listen to us . You are write they were dumped on us and we were told how many Wolves we had to live with. It got real ugly out in the woods too, roads blocked off , many confrontations with radicals a half dozen Sheriff reports, how would you like to be hated by half the town just because they have an emotional tie with the Wolf . Hoss when you go out hunting do you watch your back trail, I never did either until this all happened now I always do. I've always admired Utah and Utah sportsman Evan though I don't get a chance to hunt the state very often. I could imagine Utah going into this mess with a solid management plan and Utah telling the Feds how many wolves the landscape can handle not the other way around. This would be quite a feet to tackle instead of bashing each other?s conservation groups and I am no better than the rest of you. If we all want to hunt let's not end up like Congress. Everyday I'm out in the woods is a new learning experience and I love it.
 
Hawkbill,

I spend a ton of time in your neck of the woods. Are you really having difficulty finding elk? I helped out on a deer hunt out there last year during the general and seen 200-300 head of elk with very minimal effort in two days. I hunt birds all over that country and all we ever do is run into elk. They are everywhere.

I also spent quite a bit of time with an old govnt. trapper and he said across the board in Idaho the average pack is 4-6 animals. In 15 years he said they rarely ever saw packs that were much bigger than that. He killed hundreds and hundreds of wolves. He was a wealth of information and what he told me contradicts about 90 percent of what I read online.
 
Well why don't you tell us how it is , that is how it is where I live, do you really want to come up here and show me some Elk. I don't believe one person on this thread said they were having a hard time finding Elk. If I was you I would stick to birds or stay with the game and fish dept.
 
Just sharing my experiences. When I moved up here 3.5 years ago all I heard was how horrible the wolves are and they have just decimated the elk herds in Idaho. So obviously I was surprised on my first OTC archery hunt that I was into multiple 300+ bulls and seen tons of elk every day. In a wolf hot zone. I thought I was in some sort of draw unit or private property at first, there was no way the hunting was this good with wolves around. Fast forward 3 years now and I let people talk about the decimation of Idahos elk herds and I continue to have insane elk hunting experiences. Deer hunting sucks though.

I would gladly send you some coords if you would like.
 
Even South Dakota haven't missed on Wolves appearing in the farm lands.
Been a few that has shown up there along with a few moose.
No season on either one. No shooting of them either.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Next time you think we are OVER RUN with elk , take you're bow and try hunting in unit 12 and 17,and tell me how many hundreds of elk you see, these units were two of the premier units in the state until about 15 years ago, now all the elk and moose are mostly gone!!
 
>> Where are You Located/Hunting Hawkbill?
>>
>>
>>I' m waiting for a Reply
>>from Hoss!
>>
>>We have a few Wolves here!
>>
>>
>>The Wolves that Venture in usually
>>don't make it back out
>>of this State alive!
>>
>>There was a Collared Wolf a
>>few years back that ventured
>>through the very Corner of
>>the state & went in
>>to Colorado,then ventured back North
>>but never made it back
>>across the state line leaving!
>>
>>
>>There's been a couple caught in
>>Traps over the years!
>>
>>A Guy Calling Coyotes shot one
>>a couple of years ago!
>>
>>
>>(((It was a Big Coyote though!:D)))
>>
>>
>>I've seen a couple in my
>>day!
>>
>>No!
>>
>>We don't have alot of them!
>>
>>
>>But Having them here as longs
>>we have,I'm gonna have Hoss
>>SPLAIN why they've never really
>>Expanded or Populated more than
>>they have?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>
>I used to work around a
>cement finisher who decided to
>shoot one of those "Mexican
>red coyotes". I'm guessing
>his stint in the federal
>lockup wasn't worth it.
>
>Why haven't they expanded? Who
>says they haven't? Ask
>Hawkbill how many he saw
>this year, and he was
>looking. No. I
>doubt the Uintas are like
>Yellowstone.
>
>But did you listen to the
>podcast? Idaho didn't have
>a formal system. They
>basically dumped them out of
>a trailer. In N
>Idaho. We cut tracks
>between Eagle and Emmitt a
>few weeks ago. Far
>from N Idaho. They cover
>ground.
>
>I haven't seen one. We
>cut tracks on N slope
>road last spring as the
>snow was receeding. Guys
>seeing them up by Whitney.
> Family seeing them outside
>of Lyman.
>
>Might be luck? Eventually they
>will find Federer or Hardware.
> Thatscwhen I think we
>will have a resident population.
>
>
>
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

But hoss?

You Still didn't Answer My Question?

We've had Wolves for Many Years!

They Haven't Expanded Much!

SPLAIN it Please!

And Don't Drag what HAWKBILL is Telling us,He's in Idaho,Not TARDville!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-06-19
>AT 10:07?AM (MST)
>
>And how did the LWCF pass?
>On the local BHA Facebook
>page a post was made
>the thank our local senator
>for voting yes. You should
>see the comments. Oh ya,
>he was a Republican......
>
>
>
>#livelikezac


I called and thanked Rob Bishop.

$fw has been around since early 90' s. The fact that Colorado or any other state hasn't followed us in letting $fw run the WB and therefore the DWR, speaks volumes.

I've been a member of BHA 2 years. I've been on Sfw ling before that


"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>>> Where are You Located/Hunting Hawkbill?
>>>
>>>
>>>I' m waiting for a Reply
>>>from Hoss!
>>>
>>>We have a few Wolves here!
>>>
>>>
>>>The Wolves that Venture in usually
>>>don't make it back out
>>>of this State alive!
>>>
>>>There was a Collared Wolf a
>>>few years back that ventured
>>>through the very Corner of
>>>the state & went in
>>>to Colorado,then ventured back North
>>>but never made it back
>>>across the state line leaving!
>>>
>>>
>>>There's been a couple caught in
>>>Traps over the years!
>>>
>>>A Guy Calling Coyotes shot one
>>>a couple of years ago!
>>>
>>>
>>>(((It was a Big Coyote though!:D)))
>>>
>>>
>>>I've seen a couple in my
>>>day!
>>>
>>>No!
>>>
>>>We don't have alot of them!
>>>
>>>
>>>But Having them here as longs
>>>we have,I'm gonna have Hoss
>>>SPLAIN why they've never really
>>>Expanded or Populated more than
>>>they have?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know so many people in
>>>so many places
>>>They make allot of money but
>>>they got sad faces
>>>
>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>>
>>I used to work around a
>>cement finisher who decided to
>>shoot one of those "Mexican
>>red coyotes". I'm guessing
>>his stint in the federal
>>lockup wasn't worth it.
>>
>>Why haven't they expanded? Who
>>says they haven't? Ask
>>Hawkbill how many he saw
>>this year, and he was
>>looking. No. I
>>doubt the Uintas are like
>>Yellowstone.
>>
>>But did you listen to the
>>podcast? Idaho didn't have
>>a formal system. They
>>basically dumped them out of
>>a trailer. In N
>>Idaho. We cut tracks
>>between Eagle and Emmitt a
>>few weeks ago. Far
>>from N Idaho. They cover
>>ground.
>>
>>I haven't seen one. We
>>cut tracks on N slope
>>road last spring as the
>>snow was receeding. Guys
>>seeing them up by Whitney.
>> Family seeing them outside
>>of Lyman.
>>
>>Might be luck? Eventually they
>>will find Federer or Hardware.
>> Thatscwhen I think we
>>will have a resident population.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"I don't care if the season
>>is closed. Get off your
>>butt and go hunt them"
>>
>>
>>TRISTATE
>>3/11/19
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>But hoss?
>
>You Still didn't Answer My Question?
>
>
>We've had Wolves for Many Years!
>
>
>They Haven't Expanded Much!
>
>SPLAIN it Please!
>
>And Don't Drag what HAWKBILL is
>Telling us,He's in Idaho,Not TARDville!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

How do you know? Where's the count? Unless you have some secret source, there isn't one.

I don't know. I know there are wolves here. The researchers openly talk about it.

Seems you think you have some idea, what is it?

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-06-19 AT 04:44PM (MST)[p]Hawk. There was no push FOR BHA in this thread.

I knew DW would throw out his usual "BHA is responsible for wolves" bs.

Which is funny since Tawney was 20-21 when they were introduced and BHA was a decade behind.

But DW does have a point with butterfly effect. But it is a frame of reference issue. I'm assuming you were hunting prior to wolf reintro, so of course that's your reference. However that doesn't mean your reference point is the standard and any deviation from it is someone's fault.

The elk in Idaho in 96 may have been at a peak, and wolves may have contributed to a decrease. But so did winters, habitat lose, climate change.

In my state the wicked winters in the early 80' decimated the deer, then again in the early 90' s. No amount of cats killed what winter did. In that void our elk herds here exploded. But our sheep are hurting, same as moose. The deer are still down. There is no single culprit here, same as where u are.

I had a guy challenge me about wolves. His point was the reason I didn't like them was because that wolf killed an elk/deer. I also want to kill that elk/deer. Did the dead elk really care who or what killed it?

Folks on the other side see it as us wanting to eliminate the competition. They hear all our talk about conservation, then see and read all the "big coyote, bring a shovel" talk and that reinforces their belief that we aren't about conservation, we just are about killing. So in there minds there isn't a seperation from us and a wolf. Either way an elk dies.

In my opinion the strategy shouldntbe "hell no" or "kill them all" it should be, look at wyoming, Idaho, Montana. Once again a species flourishes when the DWR is in charge of it.

Wolves are headed to Colorado. Which means we won't be far behind. The only question is what happens after? Be great if we had that answer ready.






"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Just Sayin hoss!

You know there's Wolves here as Well as I do!

Why Haven't they Expanded/Populated like other States?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> Just Sayin hoss!
>
>You know there's Wolves here as
>Well as I do!
>
>Why Haven't they Expanded/Populated like other
>States?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

I don't know. Places where I know them to be there aren't 10' s of thousands of elk. I imagine that's some of it.

I'm sure a few get shot and buried as well.

I'm 45. 3 things I've told my boys, 13 and 8.


In their lifetimes

1. Their will be Grizzlies again in Utah.

2. Whitetail hunting will happen in Utah

3. They will deal with wolves.

Of the 3, #2 looks the most unlikely as of today.

So Bess, I guess my answer is one day we will wake up to the feds in Utah taking over wolf management. I'm guessing its sooner than later

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>Hawk. There was no push
>FOR BHA in this thread.
>
>
>I knew DW would throw out
>his usual "BHA is responsible
>for wolves" bs.
>
>Which is funny since Tawney was
>20-21 when they were introduced
>and BHA was a decade
>behind.


You'll have to show me where in this thread I've denigrated BHA. I see where I pointed out introduction occured about the time of BHA's inception. I see where I've suggested you and griz post the positive things BHA is doing rather than running down other sportsman organizations. I see where I said I hope they're involved going forward with working against introduction in other states. I see where I said I hope to see them at the grand junction wildlife commissioners meeting to oppose an attempt to ban bobcat hunting and trapping. But I dont see where I ran BHA down in this thread. TIA




>
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


#livelikezac
 
So since 1996 climate change has contributed to the decline of Elk in Idaho. Amazing! How so?
 
>> Just Sayin hoss!
>>
>>You know there's Wolves here as
>>Well as I do!
>>
>>Why Haven't they Expanded/Populated like other
>>States?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>
>I don't know. Places where
>I know them to be
>there aren't 10' s of
>thousands of elk. I
>imagine that's some of it.
>
>
>I'm sure a few get shot
>and buried as well.
>
>I'm 45. 3 things I've
>told my boys, 13 and
>8.
>
>
>In their lifetimes
>
>1. Their will be Grizzlies
>again in Utah.
>
>2. Whitetail hunting will happen in
>Utah
>
>3. They will deal with wolves.
>
>
>Of the 3, #2 looks the
>most unlikely as of today.
>
>
>So Bess, I guess my answer
>is one day we will
>wake up to the feds
>in Utah taking over wolf
>management. I'm guessing its
>sooner than later
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

So hoss?

If a Wolf gets Shot or Buried now/before now/Pre-Reintroduction Nobody Cares!

Nobody does anything about it?

Joe Blow Calls one in & Shoots it,it was just a Big Coyote,Right?

Joe Blow gets one in his Trap & officials don't even wanna deal with it!

But when the re-intro happens Here every TARD will then Start Obeying Rules & Laws?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON May-06-19 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]Thanks for bringin the podcast to our attention by the way hoss, enjoyed it. Don't believe in throwin out Bergman's rule. Disagreed with a few other minor things but agreed with it for the most part.




#livelikezac
 
Can't the FISH and Game dept deal with them like they do with fish that are a invasive species. THEY GET RID OF THEM
If they are not allowed here they should be removed.
Boy can't wait to see them put Grizzlies back in California NP's
Don't jump on the bandwagon and say WELL a hundred years ago they was here,
Trust the Government just ask a Indian.

Million years ago or so was the Sabre tooth tiger and I sure don't want to see him in the dark with only a burning bush as a light.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Gonna show you the Average TARD Mentality!

Seems to be working!

88758bigbadwolf.jpg









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
There are two reasons why they haven't expanded rapidly in Utah the way they have in other states.
1. In Utah they are considered "large coyotes".
2. There is no place in Utah where they can live year around without coming into conflict with mankind.

Hopefully those two factors will continue to keep them in check here.
 
>There are two reasons why
>they haven't expanded rapidly in
>Utah the way they have
>in other states.
>1. In Utah they are
>considered "large coyotes".
>2. There is no place
>in Utah where they can
>live year around without coming
>into conflict with mankind.
>
>Hopefully those two factors will continue
>to keep them in check
>here.

I'm going to add #3 as it relates to #2 above. If there's not a road in the bottom of a canyon or on the top of ridge in Utah, "we'll by gawd I payed $30.000 dollars for this razor I can take it anywhere"...
So your correct, they are unable to get away from human presence...
 
>>There are two reasons why
>>they haven't expanded rapidly in
>>Utah the way they have
>>in other states.
>>1. In Utah they are
>>considered "large coyotes".
>>2. There is no place
>>in Utah where they can
>>live year around without coming
>>into conflict with mankind.
>>
>>Hopefully those two factors will continue
>>to keep them in check
>>here.
>
>I'm going to add #3 as
>it relates to #2 above.
> If there's not a
>road in the bottom of
>a canyon or on the
>top of ridge in Utah,
>"we'll by gawd I payed
>$30.000 dollars for this razor
>I can take it anywhere"...
>
>So your correct, they are unable
>to get away from human
>presence...

Ya!

That's a Perty Good part of the Equation!

I Thought hoss would Spell it out many Posts ago!

And Tikka!

You need to Re-Phrase:

"I Can & Will Take it anywhere I Want to" is the Average TARD Mentality!

There's been Word for many Years the Book Cliffs is where they'll be Planted!

They'd Best Hurry,The Mankind Predators have taken major Tolls on that Elk & Deer Herd in recent years!













I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>So since 1996 climate change has
>contributed to the decline of
>Elk in Idaho. Amazing! How
>so?

Got any beetle kill in Idaho? Losing any aspen?

I know, if you actually dare admit that there has been a change in climate, your automatically Bernie Sanders. You can notice the world around you and not believe cow farts are the cause of it.

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-06-19
>AT 05:38?PM (MST)
>
>Thanks for bringin the podcast to
>our attention by the way
>hoss, enjoyed it. Don't believe
>in throwin out Bergman's rule.
>Disagreed with a few other
>minor things but agreed with
>it for the most part.
>
>
>
>
>
>#livelikezac


To be fair you didn't drop BHA first. I did. You are factually incorrect about reintro happening "about" the same time as BHA, it was a decade. But lets not pretend this is our first go round on this subject or BHA.

Second. I believe Bergmans accounts for size differences based on heat retention/loss? It doesn't account for aggressiveness, pack size? Could be wrong its been a while.

I thought it was a pretty frank discussion. Of course she will have a slant, her life's work is wolves, but I liked her pragmatism as well.
"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-19 AT 10:34AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-07-19 AT 10:29?AM (MST)

>>LAST EDITED ON May-06-19
>>AT 05:38?PM (MST)
>>
>>Thanks for bringin the podcast to
>>our attention by the way
>>hoss, enjoyed it. Don't believe
>>in throwin out Bergman's rule.
>>Disagreed with a few other
>>minor things but agreed with
>>it for the most part.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>
>To be fair you didn't drop
>BHA first. I did.
> You are factually incorrect
>about reintro happening "about" the
>same time as BHA, it
>was a decade. But
>lets not pretend this is
>our first go round on
>this subject or BHA.
>
>Second. I believe Bergmans accounts
>for size differences based on
>heat retention/loss? It doesn't
>account for aggressiveness, pack size?
> Could be wrong its
>been a while.
>
>I thought it was a pretty
>frank discussion. Of course
>she will have a slant,
>her life's work is wolves,
>but I liked her pragmatism
>as well.
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

Off the top of my head couldnt remember if BHA was 95 or 05. Nope, wouldn't pretend it's our first go round on BHA but I made a conscious effort to leave them out of this for the most part. I'll continue to do that till I see more bashing of other organizations then all bets are off. Hope to see you guys post up BHA's accomplishments going forward in its stead.

Edit: you have Bergman's rule right. She insisted these wolves from northern Alberta aren't bigger than the wolves that once roamed Yellowstone and lower latitudes, us! I disagree with that, it's why they reduced the number of wolf species in 95 from 24 to 5, to proclaim they're all the same. Natural migration would allow natural selection to promote smaller sized wolves similar to what once existed here.


#livelikezac
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-19 AT 12:01PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>AT 10:34?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>AT 10:29?AM (MST)
>
>>>LAST EDITED ON May-06-19
>>>AT 05:38?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>Thanks for bringin the podcast to
>>>our attention by the way
>>>hoss, enjoyed it. Don't believe
>>>in throwin out Bergman's rule.
>>>Disagreed with a few other
>>>minor things but agreed with
>>>it for the most part.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>#livelikezac
>>
>>
>>To be fair you didn't drop
>>BHA first. I did.
>> You are factually incorrect
>>about reintro happening "about" the
>>same time as BHA, it
>>was a decade. But
>>lets not pretend this is
>>our first go round on
>>this subject or BHA.
>>
>>Second. I believe Bergmans accounts
>>for size differences based on
>>heat retention/loss? It doesn't
>>account for aggressiveness, pack size?
>> Could be wrong its
>>been a while.
>>
>>I thought it was a pretty
>>frank discussion. Of course
>>she will have a slant,
>>her life's work is wolves,
>>but I liked her pragmatism
>>as well.
>>"I don't care if the season
>>is closed. Get off your
>>butt and go hunt them"
>>
>>
>>TRISTATE
>>3/11/19
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>Off the top of my head
>couldnt remember if BHA was
>95 or 05. Nope, wouldn't
>pretend it's our first go
>round on BHA but I
>made a conscious effort to
>leave them out of this
>for the most part. I'll
>continue to do that till
>I see more bashing of
>other organizations then all bets
>are off. Hope to see
>you guys post up BHA's
>accomplishments going forward in its
>stead.
>
>Edit: you have Bergman's rule right.
>She insisted these wolves from
>northern Alberta aren't bigger than
>the wolves that once roamed
>Yellowstone and lower latitudes, us!
>I disagree with that, it's
>why they reduced the number
>of wolf species in 95
>from 24 to 5, to
>proclaim they're all the same.
>Natural migration would allow natural
>selection to promote smaller sized
>wolves similar to what once
>existed here.
>
>
>#livelikezac

I graduated with BS in Microbiology in 98, so I'm not the most up to date on genetic testing.

When you say they reduced species, this is true, but it isn't just in wolves. So that's a conspiracy. Its happened in a ton of other species as we drifted from visualized differences to genetic ones.

The wolves you grew up with were fairly northern, and cold weather. Yet they are smaller.

In also curious as to who says the "native" wolves were smaller. I hear it continually, I've never seen proof. Just looking, I see not much difference in Northern Idaho and much of Canada. Similar food, similar climate. So some huge size difference seems odd?

I caught something else she stated. That their diet is starting to consume more bison. I find it hard to believe pre Louis and Clark, that with a gazillion bison, wolves weren't targeting them. Seems like with the tons of elk& bison, that wolves were smaller and less dependent on larger packs wouldn't have made evolutionary sense, in that they were killing bigger stronger prey.

As to groups. Like I said, I trash only one(BGF is just $fw shadow).

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>AT 12:01?PM (MST)
>
>>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>>AT 10:34?AM (MST)
>>
>>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>>AT 10:29?AM (MST)
>>
>>>>LAST EDITED ON May-06-19
>>>>AT 05:38?PM (MST)
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for bringin the podcast to
>>>>our attention by the way
>>>>hoss, enjoyed it. Don't believe
>>>>in throwin out Bergman's rule.
>>>>Disagreed with a few other
>>>>minor things but agreed with
>>>>it for the most part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>#livelikezac
>>>
>>>
>>>To be fair you didn't drop
>>>BHA first. I did.
>>> You are factually incorrect
>>>about reintro happening "about" the
>>>same time as BHA, it
>>>was a decade. But
>>>lets not pretend this is
>>>our first go round on
>>>this subject or BHA.
>>>
>>>Second. I believe Bergmans accounts
>>>for size differences based on
>>>heat retention/loss? It doesn't
>>>account for aggressiveness, pack size?
>>> Could be wrong its
>>>been a while.
>>>
>>>I thought it was a pretty
>>>frank discussion. Of course
>>>she will have a slant,
>>>her life's work is wolves,
>>>but I liked her pragmatism
>>>as well.
>>>"I don't care if the season
>>>is closed. Get off your
>>>butt and go hunt them"
>>>
>>>
>>>TRISTATE
>>>3/11/19
>>>
>>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>>PUBLIC LAND.
>>
>>Off the top of my head
>>couldnt remember if BHA was
>>95 or 05. Nope, wouldn't
>>pretend it's our first go
>>round on BHA but I
>>made a conscious effort to
>>leave them out of this
>>for the most part. I'll
>>continue to do that till
>>I see more bashing of
>>other organizations then all bets
>>are off. Hope to see
>>you guys post up BHA's
>>accomplishments going forward in its
>>stead.
>>
>>Edit: you have Bergman's rule right.
>>She insisted these wolves from
>>northern Alberta aren't bigger than
>>the wolves that once roamed
>>Yellowstone and lower latitudes, us!
>>I disagree with that, it's
>>why they reduced the number
>>of wolf species in 95
>>from 24 to 5, to
>>proclaim they're all the same.
>>Natural migration would allow natural
>>selection to promote smaller sized
>>wolves similar to what once
>>existed here.
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>I graduated with BS in Microbiology
>in 98, so I'm not
>the most up to date
>on genetic testing.
>
>When you say they reduced species,
>this is true, but it
>isn't just in wolves.
>So that's a conspiracy.
>Its happened in a ton
>of other species as we
>drifted from visualized differences to
>genetic ones.
>
>The wolves you grew up with
>were fairly northern, and cold
>weather. Yet they are
>smaller.
>
>In also curious as to who
>says the "native" wolves were
>smaller. I hear it
>continually, I've never seen proof.
> Just looking, I see
>not much difference in Northern
>Idaho and much of Canada.
> Similar food, similar climate.
> So some huge size
>difference seems odd?
>
>I caught something else she stated.
> That their diet is
>starting to consume more bison.
> I find it hard
>to believe pre Louis and
>Clark, that with a gazillion
>bison, wolves weren't targeting them.
>Seems like with the tons
>of elk& bison, that wolves
>were smaller and less dependent
>on larger packs wouldn't have
>made evolutionary sense, in that
>they were killing bigger stronger
>prey.
>
>As to groups. Like I
>said, I trash only one(BGF
>is just $fw shadow).
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

So we consolidated wolf species down to 20 percent of what we once thought, coincidentally the same year they introduced them into Yellowstone, and were expected to believe all the northern rockies wolves are of the same genus species and on top of that are uniquely immune to Bergman's Rule? And to not buy into all these oddities one would clearly have to be a conspiracy theorist? I'm beginning to understand how Utah is the leading fraud/scammer state in the country.


#livelikezac
 
>>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>>AT 12:01?PM (MST)
>>
>>>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>>>AT 10:34?AM (MST)
>>>
>>>LAST EDITED ON May-07-19
>>>AT 10:29?AM (MST)
>>>
>>>>>LAST EDITED ON May-06-19
>>>>>AT 05:38?PM (MST)
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for bringin the podcast to
>>>>>our attention by the way
>>>>>hoss, enjoyed it. Don't believe
>>>>>in throwin out Bergman's rule.
>>>>>Disagreed with a few other
>>>>>minor things but agreed with
>>>>>it for the most part.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>#livelikezac
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To be fair you didn't drop
>>>>BHA first. I did.
>>>> You are factually incorrect
>>>>about reintro happening "about" the
>>>>same time as BHA, it
>>>>was a decade. But
>>>>lets not pretend this is
>>>>our first go round on
>>>>this subject or BHA.
>>>>
>>>>Second. I believe Bergmans accounts
>>>>for size differences based on
>>>>heat retention/loss? It doesn't
>>>>account for aggressiveness, pack size?
>>>> Could be wrong its
>>>>been a while.
>>>>
>>>>I thought it was a pretty
>>>>frank discussion. Of course
>>>>she will have a slant,
>>>>her life's work is wolves,
>>>>but I liked her pragmatism
>>>>as well.
>>>>"I don't care if the season
>>>>is closed. Get off your
>>>>butt and go hunt them"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>TRISTATE
>>>>3/11/19
>>>>
>>>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>>>PUBLIC LAND.
>>>
>>>Off the top of my head
>>>couldnt remember if BHA was
>>>95 or 05. Nope, wouldn't
>>>pretend it's our first go
>>>round on BHA but I
>>>made a conscious effort to
>>>leave them out of this
>>>for the most part. I'll
>>>continue to do that till
>>>I see more bashing of
>>>other organizations then all bets
>>>are off. Hope to see
>>>you guys post up BHA's
>>>accomplishments going forward in its
>>>stead.
>>>
>>>Edit: you have Bergman's rule right.
>>>She insisted these wolves from
>>>northern Alberta aren't bigger than
>>>the wolves that once roamed
>>>Yellowstone and lower latitudes, us!
>>>I disagree with that, it's
>>>why they reduced the number
>>>of wolf species in 95
>>>from 24 to 5, to
>>>proclaim they're all the same.
>>>Natural migration would allow natural
>>>selection to promote smaller sized
>>>wolves similar to what once
>>>existed here.
>>>
>>>
>>>#livelikezac
>>
>>I graduated with BS in Microbiology
>>in 98, so I'm not
>>the most up to date
>>on genetic testing.
>>
>>When you say they reduced species,
>>this is true, but it
>>isn't just in wolves.
>>So that's a conspiracy.
>>Its happened in a ton
>>of other species as we
>>drifted from visualized differences to
>>genetic ones.
>>
>>The wolves you grew up with
>>were fairly northern, and cold
>>weather. Yet they are
>>smaller.
>>
>>In also curious as to who
>>says the "native" wolves were
>>smaller. I hear it
>>continually, I've never seen proof.
>> Just looking, I see
>>not much difference in Northern
>>Idaho and much of Canada.
>> Similar food, similar climate.
>> So some huge size
>>difference seems odd?
>>
>>I caught something else she stated.
>> That their diet is
>>starting to consume more bison.
>> I find it hard
>>to believe pre Louis and
>>Clark, that with a gazillion
>>bison, wolves weren't targeting them.
>>Seems like with the tons
>>of elk& bison, that wolves
>>were smaller and less dependent
>>on larger packs wouldn't have
>>made evolutionary sense, in that
>>they were killing bigger stronger
>>prey.
>>
>>As to groups. Like I
>>said, I trash only one(BGF
>>is just $fw shadow).
>>
>>"I don't care if the season
>>is closed. Get off your
>>butt and go hunt them"
>>
>>
>>TRISTATE
>>3/11/19
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>So we consolidated wolf species down
>to 20 percent of what
>we once thought, coincidentally the
>same year they introduced them
>into Yellowstone, and were expected
>to believe all the northern
>rockies wolves are of the
>same genus species and on
>top of that are uniquely
>immune to Bergman's Rule? And
>to not buy into all
>these oddities one would clearly
>have to be a conspiracy
>theorist? I'm beginning to understand
>how Utah is the leading
>fraud/scammer state in the country.
>
>
>
>#livelikezac

Bergmans doesn't recognize national borders. I'm sure the pro folks used whatever science they could support their cause. Don't we? But I doubt there are only 2. Wolf's exist in other countries as well

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss, lets see... the earth is at least 4 1/2 billion years old.how many times did we have extinction of spieces?
So what the hell does bark beetles and aspens have to do with the decline of elk in Idaho?
 
>Hoss, lets see... the earth is
>at least 4 1/2 billion
>years old.how many times did
>we have extinction of spieces?
>
>So what the hell does bark
>beetles and aspens have to
>do with the decline of
>elk in Idaho?


Maybe DW can read you the book.
 
Get a kick out of these kind of threads, so predictable how many respond, as if going by a script, ;-)

By the way, Bergmann's Rule just may not be the standard it once was. Seems there is much more to it, interestingly.
 
I get a kick out of these kind of threads. Lots of the replies are predictable, almost like going by a script... ;-)

For what it's worth, Bergmann's Rule just may not be the standard it once was, interestingly. Something to consider.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-10-19 AT 10:29AM (MST)[p]>For what it's worth, Bergmann's Rule
>just may not be the
>standard it once was, interestingly.
> Something to consider.

Well you cant just jump in at the end, make a claim and not offer up a link. Like to read the latest thoughts on Bergmann's rule. Was the theory changed to fit introducing wolves 1500 miles south of where they came from?


#livelikezac
 
https://books.google.com/books?id=x-FAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=audubon%27s+description+of+white+wolves&source=bl&ots=K7iKHo5hSy&sig=ACfU3U2wKCWTcfm2zmVvqVJ4FJ9oVzzNhg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiamtD2gJLiAhUC0awKHTErCCc4ChDoATAJegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=audubon's%20description%20of%20white%20wolves&f=false

Well I don't know if this link will work but it contains some interesting descriptions of wolves by John James Audubon. Most of his accounts are from around Fort Union in 1843. This was on the Missouri River near the present day border of North Dakota and Montana.

One thing is for sure. There were a lot of wolves around there at that time. He seems to lump those wolves together with gray wolves all across North America with some regional differences mainly in color.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-10-19 AT 05:20PM (MST)[p]>Hoss, lets see... the earth is
>at least 4 1/2 billion
>years old.how many times did
>we have extinction of spieces?
>
>So what the hell does bark
>beetles and aspens have to
>do with the decline of
>elk in Idaho?

You do realize there is a ton of research on elk habitat that specifically centers on deadfall caused by bark beetle, right?

I know. To some guys if you accept anything other than "good" "bad" its mind blowing.

Is there any possibility, that PRE WHITE MAN, there were crap tons of elk, and crap tons of wolves? I can't wait to hear how that is even remotely possible, because as we all know "wolves have mystical powers" and create deserts wherever they are found.

Sooooo? How did we have the vastness of species that early explorers wrote about yet have wolves on the landscape.

Next. Look at the population numbers of wolves as the elk population crashed in Idaho, THEN DO THE MATH and figure out how much each wolf had to eat to make that possible.

Perhaps, just perhaps, 2 things can be happening at the same time? Or are we all to believe 150 or so wolves ate 15000 elk in a few years? How big are those dogs?

I know, I know. Dudes are finding dead bulls WHILE HUNTING WOLVES. Guess no one should point out that perhaps, JUST MAYBE, mature bull elk go into winter exhausted, skinny, wore out, and either make easy prey, OR COULD HAVE DIED AND BEEN SCAVENGED?

Again, perspective. Were these same wolf hunters covering ground all winter PRIOR TO WOLF HUNTING so they have some baseline for comparison? Or did nature, the elk rut, early winter, etc only start the same day dudes started hunting wolves?

Now. Does that mean that a population that is down, cant be kept down because of wolves. ABSOLUTELY, apex predators can and do that. But the same is true of both types of bears in Idaho that are population killers on newborn calves. Idaho had any increases in hear numbers?

Last. Since you decided to be a smart azz. Go crack a book on the effects of climate in regards to the estrus cycle in cows. Seems there could be evidence to suggest that extremes(drought specifically) mess with cycles. MEANING. Calves born too late in the season to survive their first year. Calf births being less concentrated in birth dates(spreading out calves to he eaten over a longer period giving bears especially a chance to predate on them before they are mobile). Both lead to population decreases, BECAUSE BULLS DONT HAVE CALVES, so only female elk can increase populations. If those females become bear/wolf/cat/coyote/eagle crap before they breed, NO NEW CALVES NEXT YEAR.

I know. Its much easier to have bumper sticker answers. But wolves, their effect on prey, and the interweaving of climate change in that relationship, don't fit on a sticker.

But I agree with all. I don't like them being "introduced".

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Well my link doesn't exactly take you to what I was reading but you may be able to get there through it if interested. It's from Google Books Quadrupeds of North America Volume 2 starting on page 156.

I love reading the few written accounts of the American west prior to white settlement. Audubon wrote some great stuff. He had some cool stories about hunting wolves on fast horses. That was great sport. It sounds like wolves were so abundant and unafraid that just shooting them on the ground was too easy.
 
>Well my link doesn't exactly take
>you to what I was
>reading but you may be
>able to get there through
>it if interested. It's
>from Google Books Quadrupeds of
>North America Volume 2 starting
>on page 156.
>
>I love reading the few written
>accounts of the American west
>prior to white settlement.
>Audubon wrote some great stuff.
> He had some cool
>stories about hunting wolves on
>fast horses. That was
>great sport. It sounds
>like wolves were so abundant
>and unafraid that just shooting
>them on the ground was
>too easy.

The writings that floor you from that period are the descriptions of the amounts of bighorns.

"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-10-19
>AT 05:20?PM (MST)
>
>>Hoss, lets see... the earth is
>>at least 4 1/2 billion
>>years old.how many times did
>>we have extinction of spieces?
>>
>>So what the hell does bark
>>beetles and aspens have to
>>do with the decline of
>>elk in Idaho?
>
>You do realize there is a
>ton of research on elk
>habitat that specifically centers on
>deadfall caused by bark beetle,
>right?
>
>I know. To some guys
>if you accept anything other
>than "good" "bad" its mind
>blowing.
>
>Is there any possibility, that PRE
>WHITE MAN, there were crap
>tons of elk, and crap
>tons of wolves? I
>can't wait to hear how
>that is even remotely possible,
>because as we all know
>"wolves have mystical powers" and
>create deserts wherever they are
>found.
>
>Sooooo? How did we have
>the vastness of species that
>early explorers wrote about yet
>have wolves on the landscape.
>
>
>Next. Look at the population
>numbers of wolves as the
>elk population crashed in Idaho,
>THEN DO THE MATH and
>figure out how much each
>wolf had to eat to
>make that possible.
>
>Perhaps, just perhaps, 2 things can
>be happening at the same
>time? Or are we
>all to believe 150 or
>so wolves ate 15000 elk
>in a few years?
>How big are those dogs?
>
>
>I know, I know. Dudes
>are finding dead bulls WHILE
>HUNTING WOLVES. Guess no
>one should point out that
>perhaps, JUST MAYBE, mature bull
>elk go into winter exhausted,
>skinny, wore out, and either
>make easy prey, OR COULD
>HAVE DIED AND BEEN SCAVENGED?
>
>
>Again, perspective. Were these same
>wolf hunters covering ground all
>winter PRIOR TO WOLF HUNTING
>so they have some baseline
>for comparison? Or did
>nature, the elk rut, early
>winter, etc only start the
>same day dudes started hunting
>wolves?
>
>Now. Does that mean that
>a population that is down,
>cant be kept down because
>of wolves. ABSOLUTELY, apex
>predators can and do that.
> But the same is
>true of both types of
>bears in Idaho that are
>population killers on newborn calves.
> Idaho had any increases
>in hear numbers?
>
>Last. Since you decided to
>be a smart azz.
>Go crack a book on
>the effects of climate in
>regards to the estrus cycle
>in cows. Seems there
>could be evidence to suggest
>that extremes(drought specifically) mess with
>cycles. MEANING. Calves
>born too late in the
>season to survive their first
>year. Calf births being
>less concentrated in birth dates(spreading
>out calves to he eaten
>over a longer period giving
>bears especially a chance to
>predate on them before they
>are mobile). Both lead
>to population decreases, BECAUSE BULLS
>DONT HAVE CALVES, so only
>female elk can increase populations.
> If those females become
>bear/wolf/cat/coyote/eagle crap before they breed,
>NO NEW CALVES NEXT YEAR.
>
>
>I know. Its much easier
>to have bumper sticker answers.
> But wolves, their effect
>on prey, and the interweaving
>of climate change in that
>relationship, don't fit on a
>sticker.
>
>But I agree with all.
>I don't like them being
>"introduced".
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

150?

Did You Forget a zero?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-10-19
>AT 05:20?PM (MST)
>
>>Hoss, lets see... the earth is
>>at least 4 1/2 billion
>>years old.how many times did
>>we have extinction of spieces?
>>
>>So what the hell does bark
>>beetles and aspens have to
>>do with the decline of
>>elk in Idaho?
>
>You do realize there is a
>ton of research on elk
>habitat that specifically centers on
>deadfall caused by bark beetle,
>right?
>
>I know. To some guys
>if you accept anything other
>than "good" "bad" its mind
>blowing.
>
>Is there any possibility, that PRE
>WHITE MAN, there were crap
>tons of elk, and crap
>tons of wolves? I
>can't wait to hear how
>that is even remotely possible,
>because as we all know
>"wolves have mystical powers" and
>create deserts wherever they are
>found.
>
>Sooooo? How did we have
>the vastness of species that
>early explorers wrote about yet
>have wolves on the landscape.
>
>
>Next. Look at the population
>numbers of wolves as the
>elk population crashed in Idaho,
>THEN DO THE MATH and
>figure out how much each
>wolf had to eat to
>make that possible.
>
>Perhaps, just perhaps, 2 things can
>be happening at the same
>time? Or are we
>all to believe 150 or
>so wolves ate 15000 elk
>in a few years?
>How big are those dogs?
>
>
>I know, I know. Dudes
>are finding dead bulls WHILE
>HUNTING WOLVES. Guess no
>one should point out that
>perhaps, JUST MAYBE, mature bull
>elk go into winter exhausted,
>skinny, wore out, and either
>make easy prey, OR COULD
>HAVE DIED AND BEEN SCAVENGED?
>
>
>Again, perspective. Were these same
>wolf hunters covering ground all
>winter PRIOR TO WOLF HUNTING
>so they have some baseline
>for comparison? Or did
>nature, the elk rut, early
>winter, etc only start the
>same day dudes started hunting
>wolves?
>
>Now. Does that mean that
>a population that is down,
>cant be kept down because
>of wolves. ABSOLUTELY, apex
>predators can and do that.
> But the same is
>true of both types of
>bears in Idaho that are
>population killers on newborn calves.
> Idaho had any increases
>in hear numbers?
>
>Last. Since you decided to
>be a smart azz.
>Go crack a book on
>the effects of climate in
>regards to the estrus cycle
>in cows. Seems there
>could be evidence to suggest
>that extremes(drought specifically) mess with
>cycles. MEANING. Calves
>born too late in the
>season to survive their first
>year. Calf births being
>less concentrated in birth dates(spreading
>out calves to he eaten
>over a longer period giving
>bears especially a chance to
>predate on them before they
>are mobile). Both lead
>to population decreases, BECAUSE BULLS
>DONT HAVE CALVES, so only
>female elk can increase populations.
> If those females become
>bear/wolf/cat/coyote/eagle crap before they breed,
>NO NEW CALVES NEXT YEAR.
>
>
>I know. Its much easier
>to have bumper sticker answers.
> But wolves, their effect
>on prey, and the interweaving
>of climate change in that
>relationship, don't fit on a
>sticker.
>
>But I agree with all.
>I don't like them being
>"introduced".
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

So with all that said, some of which I agree, some I don't, why is adding another apex predator in the mix a good idea?


#livelikezac
 
I thought I read some where that the wolves have started killing just to be killing instead of hunting food. Is there any truth in that?
Also from the grizzly post, why are their letting the grizzly numbers getting so high, are they
Going to start hunting them?
Just curious

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
>I thought I read some where
>that the wolves have started
>killing just to be killing
>instead of hunting food. Is
>there any truth in that?
>
>Also from the grizzly post, why
>are their letting the grizzly
>numbers getting so high, are
>they
>Going to start hunting them?
>Just curious
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora

To answer your question... Yes, wolves kill for sport and need to be aggressively managed.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>I thought I read some where
>that the wolves have started
>killing just to be killing
>instead of hunting food. Is
>there any truth in that?
>
>Also from the grizzly post, why
>are their letting the grizzly
>numbers getting so high, are
>they
>Going to start hunting them?
>Just curious
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora


Hey Joe!

They want ALL Grizzly Hunting abolished!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON May-12-19 AT 10:01PM (MST)[p]DW:

"Well you cant just jump in at the end, make a claim and not offer up a link. Like to read the latest thoughts on Bergmann's rule. Was the theory changed to fit introducing wolves 1500 miles south of where they came from?"


Been over a year since I read a couple of articles/studies relating to Bergmann's Rule. Couldn't find the one I was looking for but this one will give some info since your interested. My reference in my post was not definitive, nor was it specifying an absolute. I'm sure you can find more info if you really are interested. As to the study changing the theory to fit wolf introductions, I'll let you be the judge, I'm sure you hold no biases.


https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-016-0778-x
 
Thanx for the link stillhunterman. Of course I have biases, I'm sure we all do to some degree. I think the fact that animals are larger the further north you go isn't debatable, while the reason for that fact could be debated till the end of time. Granted if there are artificial influences, the guy in Pennsylvania feeding the semi tame bear in his backyard, exceptions to the rule can be created. But as a general rule taken on balance I think it's as consistent as any rule can be.



#livelikezac
 
Holy balls. This thread is nothing short of embarrassing watching you guys shred each other. The dangerous wolf in the room is us, eating our own. Either grow up or agree to disagree Between numbers, politics, and this kind of crap the days of hunting are surely numbered.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>Holy balls. This thread is
>nothing short of embarrassing watching
>you guys shred each other.
> The dangerous wolf in
>the room is us, eating
>our own. Either grow up
>or agree to disagree
> Between numbers, politics,
>and this kind of crap
>the days of hunting are
>surely numbered.
>
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg



Really? DW and I go after each other. How many dudes that aren't engaged on a subject read our "shredding" and learn something? Or see a new perspective. I can't speak for DW, but I hold no personal hatred for him. In fact is probably enjoy drinking a neer, shooting the bull with him. You don't have to agree. You don't have to shut up. The "antis" will continue to be so regardless of whether we all pretend to be in lockstep, or if we are in war with each other.

That's the beauty of what Founder created. A place where guys can share, encourage, or argue, but where we do agree on hunting as a passion.

Its ok to not be locksteppers.


"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>>Holy balls. This thread is
>>nothing short of embarrassing watching
>>you guys shred each other.
>> The dangerous wolf in
>>the room is us, eating
>>our own. Either grow up
>>or agree to disagree
>> Between numbers, politics,
>>and this kind of crap
>>the days of hunting are
>>surely numbered.
>>
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg

>
>
>Really? DW and I go after
>each other. How many
>dudes that aren't engaged on
>a subject read our "shredding"
>and learn something? Or
>see a new perspective.
>I can't speak for DW,
>but I hold no personal
>hatred for him. In
>fact is probably enjoy drinking
>a neer, shooting the bull
>with him. You don't
>have to agree. You
>don't have to shut up.
> The "antis" will continue
>to be so regardless of
>whether we all pretend to
>be in lockstep, or if
>we are in war with
>each other.
>
>That's the beauty of what Founder
>created. A place where
>guys can share, encourage, or
>argue, but where we do
>agree on hunting as a
>passion.
>
>Its ok to not be locksteppers.
>
>
>
>"I don't care if the season
>is closed. Get off your
>butt and go hunt them"
>
>
>TRISTATE
>3/11/19
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

Agree 100%. Lookin forward to some cold ones and a bullshit session with with hoss at some point. Although I do worry I'm a little hard on the grizz somedays.


#livelikezac
 
Finally found some time to listen to this. I really enjoyed it and felt like I learned a few things. I felt like the biologist was pretty unbiased but there were still things that bothered me. For instance she said the wolves wouldn't eat all the elk because then they would starve, however true that may be I think its kind of misleading. While the wolves would have to eat EVERYTHING to be starving I think they could pretty much wipe out the moose and still have thriving packs because of the entire prey base made up of deer, elk, and beavers. Moose are a big concern for me because I keep hearing about the struggling populations in ID,WY, and MT(wolves) and how its caused by ticks and climate change. While these may be contributing factors CO(No wolves) is not immune to them and our moose are thriving! I listened to the Eastmans Podcast after the Meateater and those guys were definitely in the "sky is falling" mentality but they made some really good points as well.Also I do like to hear the back and forth between guys with differing opinions as long as its a civil discussion.
 

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