Utah draw
- Thread starter huntFX4
- Start date
BIGJOHNT
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,175
Can't explain it ! 
When the draw odds come out. Copy them off and study them maybe you can figure something out. Did you remember to add a little something on the donation screen ? You friend must have remembered that very important step and not scrolled past. Is he older or younger then you ? Did your fill out you application correctly ?
Did you put in for more then one area. A lot goes on with those draws. I guess he is just lucky !
When the draw odds come out. Copy them off and study them maybe you can figure something out. Did you remember to add a little something on the donation screen ? You friend must have remembered that very important step and not scrolled past. Is he older or younger then you ? Did your fill out you application correctly ?Did you put in for more then one area. A lot goes on with those draws. I guess he is just lucky !
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,532
There is only 2 ways that I could see happen:
1) When they pick your number, they look at all your choices, so if what you put as a 3rd option is still available, you get the tag. I know in Colorado, they look at only your first choice in the first round of drawings. However, in other states, every one of your choices is looked at if you get drawn, before moving on to the next person in line
2) There was an error in your app.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
1) When they pick your number, they look at all your choices, so if what you put as a 3rd option is still available, you get the tag. I know in Colorado, they look at only your first choice in the first round of drawings. However, in other states, every one of your choices is looked at if you get drawn, before moving on to the next person in line
2) There was an error in your app.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
Points don't guarantee a tag, only increases your chances.
An incomplete app won't process when you submit. CC accounts closed will usually result in DWR calling you for another form of payment.
An incomplete app won't process when you submit. CC accounts closed will usually result in DWR calling you for another form of payment.
deerkiller
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,127
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-19 AT 12:50PM (MST)[p]>Points don't guarantee a tag, only
>increases your chances.
>
>An incomplete app won't process when
>you submit. CC accounts
>closed will usually result in
>DWR calling you for another
>form of payment.
If you have 4 points and you are the only applicant with that many points and everyone else has 3 points or less that applies, you are guaranteed a tag. That's how preference points work.
>increases your chances.
>
>An incomplete app won't process when
>you submit. CC accounts
>closed will usually result in
>DWR calling you for another
>form of payment.
If you have 4 points and you are the only applicant with that many points and everyone else has 3 points or less that applies, you are guaranteed a tag. That's how preference points work.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
>If you have 4 points and
>you are the only applicant
>with that many points and
>everyone else has 3 points
>or less that applies, you
>are guaranteed a tag. That's
>how preference points work.
Not for buck deer. Maybe antlerless are different...
"Why preference
points matter
Utah Admin. Rule R657-62-9
Utah?s preference point system gives
hunters who don't draw a general-season buck
deer permit a better chance at drawing one the
following year."
>you are the only applicant
>with that many points and
>everyone else has 3 points
>or less that applies, you
>are guaranteed a tag. That's
>how preference points work.
Not for buck deer. Maybe antlerless are different...
"Why preference
points matter
Utah Admin. Rule R657-62-9
Utah?s preference point system gives
hunters who don't draw a general-season buck
deer permit a better chance at drawing one the
following year."
deerkiller
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,127
You should probably read up a little more on how things work before you start spouting off. General buck deer runs on the same draw system as the antlerless.
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,603
I don't have the answer for the OP, sorry.
I do know lots of guys confuse bonus points with preference points. The are handled vastly differently under those 2 systems.
Preference gives you true preference, if you have the points.... like the cow elk drawing.
Zeke
#livelikezac
I do know lots of guys confuse bonus points with preference points. The are handled vastly differently under those 2 systems.
Preference gives you true preference, if you have the points.... like the cow elk drawing.
Zeke
#livelikezac
huntFX4
Active Member
- Messages
- 870
>How many points did your friend
>have? You didn't mention that
>part.
>
>
>
>"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak.
>So
>we must and we will."
>Theadore Roosevelt
In the OP I mentioned he drew the tag last year as well, so it would have been zero.
I had 1 point and it was my 1st choice.
He had 0 point and it was his 3rd choice.
Go figure.
>have? You didn't mention that
>part.
>
>
>
>"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak.
>So
>we must and we will."
>Theadore Roosevelt
In the OP I mentioned he drew the tag last year as well, so it would have been zero.
I had 1 point and it was my 1st choice.
He had 0 point and it was his 3rd choice.
Go figure.
I responded before I had my morning coffee. Missed the part where you stayed that he had drawn it last year as well.
Sounds interesting to me. I'm not sure when the draw odds report will be out for antlerless but I'd definitely be checking it out.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Sounds interesting to me. I'm not sure when the draw odds report will be out for antlerless but I'd definitely be checking it out.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
deerkiller
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,127
If I had to guess, the only way he had a chance at drawing is you aren't getting the full story and he did a group app with someone who had multiple points, with an average of more than 1 a piece, and that's how he drew. It's really the only way he could have drawn a tag before you did
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
>Can someone explain this? I put
>in for one cow elk
>tag unit only in the
>draw with one point. A
>friend of mine put the
>same unit as his 3rd
>choice. He drew the tag
>but I didn't. He drew
>it last year too.
>Something seems off to me.
Something IS off! There is simply no way for that scenario to happen as you've explained it. Something is missing.
Inaccurate application? Credit card denied?
Did you both apply for the same HUNT in the unit? There are units that have more than one hunt and each hunt is a separate draw.
Or maybe you or he typed in the wrong hunt NUMBER when you applied, but thought is was the right number.
Also, if you applied with a group, there is a very remote possibility that the scenario could happen, but it certainly isn't likely. Your group would have to have been about the last number drawn with not enough tags to fill it and with few other single or smaller groups left. AND no other applicants applying for the tag as a 2nd choice in order to get to the 3rd choices, Slim chance of all that happening!
You might want to talk to your friend again.
>in for one cow elk
>tag unit only in the
>draw with one point. A
>friend of mine put the
>same unit as his 3rd
>choice. He drew the tag
>but I didn't. He drew
>it last year too.
>Something seems off to me.
Something IS off! There is simply no way for that scenario to happen as you've explained it. Something is missing.
Inaccurate application? Credit card denied?
Did you both apply for the same HUNT in the unit? There are units that have more than one hunt and each hunt is a separate draw.
Or maybe you or he typed in the wrong hunt NUMBER when you applied, but thought is was the right number.
Also, if you applied with a group, there is a very remote possibility that the scenario could happen, but it certainly isn't likely. Your group would have to have been about the last number drawn with not enough tags to fill it and with few other single or smaller groups left. AND no other applicants applying for the tag as a 2nd choice in order to get to the 3rd choices, Slim chance of all that happening!
You might want to talk to your friend again.
huntFX4
Active Member
- Messages
- 870
>If I had to guess, the
>only way he had a
>chance at drawing is you
>aren't getting the full story
>and he did a group
>app with someone who had
>multiple points, with an average
>of more than 1 a
>piece, and that's how he
>drew. It's really the only
>way he could have drawn
>a tag before you did
>
Refilled that makes more sense than anything I've come up with.
>only way he had a
>chance at drawing is you
>aren't getting the full story
>and he did a group
>app with someone who had
>multiple points, with an average
>of more than 1 a
>piece, and that's how he
>drew. It's really the only
>way he could have drawn
>a tag before you did
>
Refilled that makes more sense than anything I've come up with.
huntFX4
Active Member
- Messages
- 870
Elk i applied to the right area. Just a click and done. As for credit card it was good because my 14 year old drew the cow tag for the same region and an archery doe tag.
This area has two seasons only and both covered by the same tag. I am going to ask my friend if he applied with a group.
This area has two seasons only and both covered by the same tag. I am going to ask my friend if he applied with a group.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
>You should probably read up a
>little more on how things
>work before you start spouting
>off. General buck deer runs
>on the same draw system
>as the antlerless.
Read the quote genius, it's from the regs. A preference point gives you a better chance, it guarantees nothing. You said buck deer and antlerless ran on the same system, the regs say it gives a better chance.
deerkiller should read up before spouting off, not roadrunner...
>little more on how things
>work before you start spouting
>off. General buck deer runs
>on the same draw system
>as the antlerless.
Read the quote genius, it's from the regs. A preference point gives you a better chance, it guarantees nothing. You said buck deer and antlerless ran on the same system, the regs say it gives a better chance.
deerkiller should read up before spouting off, not roadrunner...
deerkiller
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,127
>>You should probably read up a
>>little more on how things
>>work before you start spouting
>>off. General buck deer runs
>>on the same draw system
>>as the antlerless.
>
>
>Read the quote genius, it's from
>the regs. A preference
>point gives you a better
>chance, it guarantees nothing.
>You said buck deer and
>antlerless ran on the same
>system, the regs say it
>gives a better chance.
>
>deerkiller should read up before spouting
>off, not roadrunner...
You read the quote dumbass! They General buck deer and the antlerless run off the same draw system, preference points. Just because you have 1 point, doesn't guarantee you'll draw! It simply puts your infront of the guys in that same drawing the following year that have 0 points. The division can't ?guarantee? anything, nor did I ever say anything about being guaranteed a tag ? Learn the system and how the draws work. I find it hilarious how many people that the system is broke or they got screwed simply because of their own stupidity and lack of understanding on how the Utah draws work.
>>little more on how things
>>work before you start spouting
>>off. General buck deer runs
>>on the same draw system
>>as the antlerless.
>
>
>Read the quote genius, it's from
>the regs. A preference
>point gives you a better
>chance, it guarantees nothing.
>You said buck deer and
>antlerless ran on the same
>system, the regs say it
>gives a better chance.
>
>deerkiller should read up before spouting
>off, not roadrunner...
You read the quote dumbass! They General buck deer and the antlerless run off the same draw system, preference points. Just because you have 1 point, doesn't guarantee you'll draw! It simply puts your infront of the guys in that same drawing the following year that have 0 points. The division can't ?guarantee? anything, nor did I ever say anything about being guaranteed a tag ? Learn the system and how the draws work. I find it hilarious how many people that the system is broke or they got screwed simply because of their own stupidity and lack of understanding on how the Utah draws work.
deerkiller
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,127
LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-19 AT 03:54AM (MST)[p]*Edit* i did say ?guaranteed? in my original post. However, the only way you are guaranteed a permit is if you are the top point applicant for that unit and everyone else that applied for the same unit has less points than you do. Other than that, you will never be guaranteed a permit.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
>Elk i applied to the right
>area. Just a click and
>done. As for credit card
>it was good because my
>14 year old drew the
>cow tag for the same
>region and an archery doe
>tag.
>This area has two seasons only
>and both covered by the
>same tag. I am going
>to ask my friend if
>he applied with a group.
>
What hunt are we talking about? If it happened the way you claim, I'm wondering if this could be an isolated case or whether it's happening throughout the system. 3rd choices are NEVER supposed to be evaluated unless or until ALL 1st and 2nd choices are filled.
>area. Just a click and
>done. As for credit card
>it was good because my
>14 year old drew the
>cow tag for the same
>region and an archery doe
>tag.
>This area has two seasons only
>and both covered by the
>same tag. I am going
>to ask my friend if
>he applied with a group.
>
What hunt are we talking about? If it happened the way you claim, I'm wondering if this could be an isolated case or whether it's happening throughout the system. 3rd choices are NEVER supposed to be evaluated unless or until ALL 1st and 2nd choices are filled.
huntFX4
Active Member
- Messages
- 870
>>Elk i applied to the right
>>area. Just a click and
>>done. As for credit card
>>it was good because my
>>14 year old drew the
>>cow tag for the same
>>region and an archery doe
>>tag.
>>This area has two seasons only
>>and both covered by the
>>same tag. I am going
>>to ask my friend if
>>he applied with a group.
>>
>
>What hunt are we talking about?
>If it happened the way
>you claim, I'm wondering if
>this could be an isolated
>case or whether it's happening
>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>are NEVER supposed to be
>evaluated unless or until ALL
>1st and 2nd choices are
>filled.
That is the way I understood it to work. The area is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt Lake
>>area. Just a click and
>>done. As for credit card
>>it was good because my
>>14 year old drew the
>>cow tag for the same
>>region and an archery doe
>>tag.
>>This area has two seasons only
>>and both covered by the
>>same tag. I am going
>>to ask my friend if
>>he applied with a group.
>>
>
>What hunt are we talking about?
>If it happened the way
>you claim, I'm wondering if
>this could be an isolated
>case or whether it's happening
>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>are NEVER supposed to be
>evaluated unless or until ALL
>1st and 2nd choices are
>filled.
That is the way I understood it to work. The area is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt Lake
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
>>>Elk i applied to the right
>>>area. Just a click and
>>>done. As for credit card
>>>it was good because my
>>>14 year old drew the
>>>cow tag for the same
>>>region and an archery doe
>>>tag.
>>>This area has two seasons only
>>>and both covered by the
>>>same tag. I am going
>>>to ask my friend if
>>>he applied with a group.
>>>
>>
>>What hunt are we talking about?
>>If it happened the way
>>you claim, I'm wondering if
>>this could be an isolated
>>case or whether it's happening
>>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>>are NEVER supposed to be
>>evaluated unless or until ALL
>>1st and 2nd choices are
>>filled.
>
>That is the way I understood
>it to work. The area
>is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt
>Lake
OK, Thanks! That's hunt #EA1027, Antlerless Elk, Any Weapon, with 234 Resident tags and 26 Non-resident tags.
One last question; Were BOTH of your applications for either resident or non-resident tags? (They are different draws.)
For the rest of you readers, is there anyone else out there who either failed to draw this hunt as their 1st choice or who drew it as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th choice?
>>>area. Just a click and
>>>done. As for credit card
>>>it was good because my
>>>14 year old drew the
>>>cow tag for the same
>>>region and an archery doe
>>>tag.
>>>This area has two seasons only
>>>and both covered by the
>>>same tag. I am going
>>>to ask my friend if
>>>he applied with a group.
>>>
>>
>>What hunt are we talking about?
>>If it happened the way
>>you claim, I'm wondering if
>>this could be an isolated
>>case or whether it's happening
>>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>>are NEVER supposed to be
>>evaluated unless or until ALL
>>1st and 2nd choices are
>>filled.
>
>That is the way I understood
>it to work. The area
>is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt
>Lake
OK, Thanks! That's hunt #EA1027, Antlerless Elk, Any Weapon, with 234 Resident tags and 26 Non-resident tags.
One last question; Were BOTH of your applications for either resident or non-resident tags? (They are different draws.)
For the rest of you readers, is there anyone else out there who either failed to draw this hunt as their 1st choice or who drew it as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th choice?
huntFX4
Active Member
- Messages
- 870
>>>>Elk i applied to the right
>>>>area. Just a click and
>>>>done. As for credit card
>>>>it was good because my
>>>>14 year old drew the
>>>>cow tag for the same
>>>>region and an archery doe
>>>>tag.
>>>>This area has two seasons only
>>>>and both covered by the
>>>>same tag. I am going
>>>>to ask my friend if
>>>>he applied with a group.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What hunt are we talking about?
>>>If it happened the way
>>>you claim, I'm wondering if
>>>this could be an isolated
>>>case or whether it's happening
>>>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>>>are NEVER supposed to be
>>>evaluated unless or until ALL
>>>1st and 2nd choices are
>>>filled.
>>
>>That is the way I understood
>>it to work. The area
>>is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt
>>Lake
>
>OK, Thanks! That's hunt #EA1027, Antlerless
>Elk, Any Weapon, with 234
>Resident tags and 26 Non-resident
>tags.
>
>One last question; Were BOTH of
>your applications for either resident
>or non-resident tags? (They are
>different draws.)
>
>For the rest of you readers,
>is there anyone else out
>there who either failed to
>draw this hunt as their
>1st choice or who drew
>it as their 2nd, 3rd,
>4th or 5th choice?
We both put in as residents. He didn't really want that unit because it's getting hard to hunt with all the tags.
>>>>area. Just a click and
>>>>done. As for credit card
>>>>it was good because my
>>>>14 year old drew the
>>>>cow tag for the same
>>>>region and an archery doe
>>>>tag.
>>>>This area has two seasons only
>>>>and both covered by the
>>>>same tag. I am going
>>>>to ask my friend if
>>>>he applied with a group.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What hunt are we talking about?
>>>If it happened the way
>>>you claim, I'm wondering if
>>>this could be an isolated
>>>case or whether it's happening
>>>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>>>are NEVER supposed to be
>>>evaluated unless or until ALL
>>>1st and 2nd choices are
>>>filled.
>>
>>That is the way I understood
>>it to work. The area
>>is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt
>>Lake
>
>OK, Thanks! That's hunt #EA1027, Antlerless
>Elk, Any Weapon, with 234
>Resident tags and 26 Non-resident
>tags.
>
>One last question; Were BOTH of
>your applications for either resident
>or non-resident tags? (They are
>different draws.)
>
>For the rest of you readers,
>is there anyone else out
>there who either failed to
>draw this hunt as their
>1st choice or who drew
>it as their 2nd, 3rd,
>4th or 5th choice?
We both put in as residents. He didn't really want that unit because it's getting hard to hunt with all the tags.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
>>>>>Elk i applied to the right
>>>>>area. Just a click and
>>>>>done. As for credit card
>>>>>it was good because my
>>>>>14 year old drew the
>>>>>cow tag for the same
>>>>>region and an archery doe
>>>>>tag.
>>>>>This area has two seasons only
>>>>>and both covered by the
>>>>>same tag. I am going
>>>>>to ask my friend if
>>>>>he applied with a group.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What hunt are we talking about?
>>>>If it happened the way
>>>>you claim, I'm wondering if
>>>>this could be an isolated
>>>>case or whether it's happening
>>>>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>>>>are NEVER supposed to be
>>>>evaluated unless or until ALL
>>>>1st and 2nd choices are
>>>>filled.
>>>
>>>That is the way I understood
>>>it to work. The area
>>>is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt
>>>Lake
>>
>>OK, Thanks! That's hunt #EA1027, Antlerless
>>Elk, Any Weapon, with 234
>>Resident tags and 26 Non-resident
>>tags.
>>
>>One last question; Were BOTH of
>>your applications for either resident
>>or non-resident tags? (They are
>>different draws.)
>>
>>For the rest of you readers,
>>is there anyone else out
>>there who either failed to
>>draw this hunt as their
>>1st choice or who drew
>>it as their 2nd, 3rd,
>>4th or 5th choice?
>
>
>We both put in as residents.
>He didn't really want that
>unit because it's getting hard
>to hunt with all the
>tags.
That's unfortunate considering this scenario should never have happened. I think I would be contacting the DWR for an explanation, if it were me.
>>>>>area. Just a click and
>>>>>done. As for credit card
>>>>>it was good because my
>>>>>14 year old drew the
>>>>>cow tag for the same
>>>>>region and an archery doe
>>>>>tag.
>>>>>This area has two seasons only
>>>>>and both covered by the
>>>>>same tag. I am going
>>>>>to ask my friend if
>>>>>he applied with a group.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What hunt are we talking about?
>>>>If it happened the way
>>>>you claim, I'm wondering if
>>>>this could be an isolated
>>>>case or whether it's happening
>>>>throughout the system. 3rd choices
>>>>are NEVER supposed to be
>>>>evaluated unless or until ALL
>>>>1st and 2nd choices are
>>>>filled.
>>>
>>>That is the way I understood
>>>it to work. The area
>>>is East Canyon Davis/N. Salt
>>>Lake
>>
>>OK, Thanks! That's hunt #EA1027, Antlerless
>>Elk, Any Weapon, with 234
>>Resident tags and 26 Non-resident
>>tags.
>>
>>One last question; Were BOTH of
>>your applications for either resident
>>or non-resident tags? (They are
>>different draws.)
>>
>>For the rest of you readers,
>>is there anyone else out
>>there who either failed to
>>draw this hunt as their
>>1st choice or who drew
>>it as their 2nd, 3rd,
>>4th or 5th choice?
>
>
>We both put in as residents.
>He didn't really want that
>unit because it's getting hard
>to hunt with all the
>tags.
That's unfortunate considering this scenario should never have happened. I think I would be contacting the DWR for an explanation, if it were me.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 11:34PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 11:32?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 11:31?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 11:27?PM (MST)
FWIW:
www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2017_biggameapp_low.pdf
Page 28 shows a chart how the preference draw is done per hunt. That also now includes the antlerless deer, antlerless elk and doe pronghorn draws. (The antlerless moose draw still uses the bonus point 50/50 rule and the one number per point rule to get the lowest number, but uses the preference point system shown on the chart for the remaining tags.) One other slight nuance you should know is that the initial resident and non-resident draws are separate except for the antlerless deer which has a combined quota. However, if there are any tags left over after ALL the initial draws are complete, then the resident and non-resident tags are combined per species for any second draw(s).
Now the draw sequence:
Prior to the draw, the apps are sorted into species, hunts, resident and non-resident, youth or adult, and point group, and each app/group app is given one (only one) random number except moose, see above.
The 1st round is a youth draw which uses 20% of the hunt quota. And they go by the sequence listed for the main draw, see below. Any apps left over will be given a new number and placed in the main draw.
For the main draws, the following sequence is done:
For each separate species, they evaluate ALL the 1st choices for each hunt. Then they evaluate ALL the tags left over from that round, if any, with the 2nd choices, then 3rd choices, 4th choices, 5th choices.
The hunt evaluations are thus:
Starting with the highest point group in descending order (going down) and the lowest number in that group in ascending order (going up), the tags are awarded until all tags are awarded or until all apps are evaluated (see the chart). If there aren't enough tags left to fill a group application, then it is skipped and the next app is considered. And if there are any tags left over after the 5th choices are evaluated, we'll go to a second full draw where the resident and non-resident tags are combined. And if for some reason there are tags left over after the second full draw, they'll be sold over the counter/online.
ANY tag drawn will use up your preference/bonus points and any tag not drawn will add a point for next year.
It's complicated I know, but I hope this helps. Any questions?
Edit: Sorry, but the link I found won't allow access and the DWR site links say the page isn't available. I'll see what I can do, but the above explanations may have to suffice.
Edit: Fixed it!
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 11:31?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-19 AT 11:27?PM (MST)
FWIW:
www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2017_biggameapp_low.pdf
Page 28 shows a chart how the preference draw is done per hunt. That also now includes the antlerless deer, antlerless elk and doe pronghorn draws. (The antlerless moose draw still uses the bonus point 50/50 rule and the one number per point rule to get the lowest number, but uses the preference point system shown on the chart for the remaining tags.) One other slight nuance you should know is that the initial resident and non-resident draws are separate except for the antlerless deer which has a combined quota. However, if there are any tags left over after ALL the initial draws are complete, then the resident and non-resident tags are combined per species for any second draw(s).
Now the draw sequence:
Prior to the draw, the apps are sorted into species, hunts, resident and non-resident, youth or adult, and point group, and each app/group app is given one (only one) random number except moose, see above.
The 1st round is a youth draw which uses 20% of the hunt quota. And they go by the sequence listed for the main draw, see below. Any apps left over will be given a new number and placed in the main draw.
For the main draws, the following sequence is done:
For each separate species, they evaluate ALL the 1st choices for each hunt. Then they evaluate ALL the tags left over from that round, if any, with the 2nd choices, then 3rd choices, 4th choices, 5th choices.
The hunt evaluations are thus:
Starting with the highest point group in descending order (going down) and the lowest number in that group in ascending order (going up), the tags are awarded until all tags are awarded or until all apps are evaluated (see the chart). If there aren't enough tags left to fill a group application, then it is skipped and the next app is considered. And if there are any tags left over after the 5th choices are evaluated, we'll go to a second full draw where the resident and non-resident tags are combined. And if for some reason there are tags left over after the second full draw, they'll be sold over the counter/online.
ANY tag drawn will use up your preference/bonus points and any tag not drawn will add a point for next year.
It's complicated I know, but I hope this helps. Any questions?
Edit: Sorry, but the link I found won't allow access and the DWR site links say the page isn't available. I'll see what I can do, but the above explanations may have to suffice.
Edit: Fixed it!
Daxter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,425
Over the years I have dealt with numerous issues like the one you describe, where someone does or doesn't draw a tag that doesn't add up based on the draw rules/procedures.
I've had people tell me they drew Book Cliffs LE tags as a 2nd choice, tell me that they didn't draw a LE elk tag with way more points than the top of the point pool, tell me one person in the party application drew and others didn't, etc.
Every single time I've called the DWR licensing folks with customer ID numbers and had them look into it, there was always an error or misunderstanding on the part of the applicants.
Common errors include
-calculating points incorrectly giving themselves a point for that years application before the draw is conducted.
-applying as a group with someone with different point totals
-missing a few years of applying but somehow assuming they still got points those years
-putting in for the wrong hunt code or forgetting what hunt code they actually put in for
-not taking into account the set asides for youth/seniors
-looking at the wrong draw odds for residents vs non-residents
-messing up group applications
In looking into dozens of these over the years I have never actually found an error on the part of the 3rd party draw contractor or their computer program that runs the draw. I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but after so many false alarms I have a hard time believing it wasn't human error on the part of an applicant or a misunderstanding somewhere.
Another interesting note - I've never seen one where it was due to a credit card being denied. That can happen, but the DWR licensing folks will make a ton of effort to contact people who have a denied card to get it corrected. Very, very few people miss out on tags due to bad credit cards.
Dax
I've had people tell me they drew Book Cliffs LE tags as a 2nd choice, tell me that they didn't draw a LE elk tag with way more points than the top of the point pool, tell me one person in the party application drew and others didn't, etc.
Every single time I've called the DWR licensing folks with customer ID numbers and had them look into it, there was always an error or misunderstanding on the part of the applicants.
Common errors include
-calculating points incorrectly giving themselves a point for that years application before the draw is conducted.
-applying as a group with someone with different point totals
-missing a few years of applying but somehow assuming they still got points those years
-putting in for the wrong hunt code or forgetting what hunt code they actually put in for
-not taking into account the set asides for youth/seniors
-looking at the wrong draw odds for residents vs non-residents
-messing up group applications
In looking into dozens of these over the years I have never actually found an error on the part of the 3rd party draw contractor or their computer program that runs the draw. I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but after so many false alarms I have a hard time believing it wasn't human error on the part of an applicant or a misunderstanding somewhere.
Another interesting note - I've never seen one where it was due to a credit card being denied. That can happen, but the DWR licensing folks will make a ton of effort to contact people who have a denied card to get it corrected. Very, very few people miss out on tags due to bad credit cards.
Dax
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,098
>Over the years I have dealt
>with numerous issues like the
>one you describe, where someone
>does or doesn't draw a
>tag that doesn't add up
>based on the draw rules/procedures.
>
>
>I've had people tell me they
>drew Book Cliffs LE tags
>as a 2nd choice, tell
>me that they didn't draw
>a LE elk tag with
>way more points than the
>top of the point pool,
>tell me one person in
>the party application drew and
>others didn't, etc.
>
>Every single time I've called the
>DWR licensing folks with customer
>ID numbers and had them
>look into it, there was
>always an error or misunderstanding
>on the part of the
>applicants.
>
>Common errors include
>
>-calculating points incorrectly giving themselves a
>point for that years application
>before the draw is conducted.
>
>
>-applying as a group with someone
>with different point totals
>
>-missing a few years of applying
>but somehow assuming they still
>got points those years
>
>-putting in for the wrong hunt
>code or forgetting what hunt
>code they actually put in
>for
>
>-not taking into account the set
>asides for youth/seniors
>
>-looking at the wrong draw odds
>for residents vs non-residents
>
>-messing up group applications
>
>
>
>In looking into dozens of these
>over the years I have
>never actually found an error
>on the part of the
>3rd party draw contractor or
>their computer program that runs
>the draw. I'm not saying
>it's totally impossible, but after
>so many false alarms I
>have a hard time believing
>it wasn't human error on
>the part of an applicant
>or a misunderstanding somewhere.
>
>Another interesting note - I've never
>seen one where it was
>due to a credit card
>being denied. That can happen,
>but the DWR licensing folks
>will make a ton of
>effort to contact people who
>have a denied card to
>get it corrected. Very, very
>few people miss out on
>tags due to bad credit
>cards.
>
>
>
>Dax
Do you know whether or not the DWR odds report numbers are 1st choice only or are they complete totals?
>with numerous issues like the
>one you describe, where someone
>does or doesn't draw a
>tag that doesn't add up
>based on the draw rules/procedures.
>
>
>I've had people tell me they
>drew Book Cliffs LE tags
>as a 2nd choice, tell
>me that they didn't draw
>a LE elk tag with
>way more points than the
>top of the point pool,
>tell me one person in
>the party application drew and
>others didn't, etc.
>
>Every single time I've called the
>DWR licensing folks with customer
>ID numbers and had them
>look into it, there was
>always an error or misunderstanding
>on the part of the
>applicants.
>
>Common errors include
>
>-calculating points incorrectly giving themselves a
>point for that years application
>before the draw is conducted.
>
>
>-applying as a group with someone
>with different point totals
>
>-missing a few years of applying
>but somehow assuming they still
>got points those years
>
>-putting in for the wrong hunt
>code or forgetting what hunt
>code they actually put in
>for
>
>-not taking into account the set
>asides for youth/seniors
>
>-looking at the wrong draw odds
>for residents vs non-residents
>
>-messing up group applications
>
>
>
>In looking into dozens of these
>over the years I have
>never actually found an error
>on the part of the
>3rd party draw contractor or
>their computer program that runs
>the draw. I'm not saying
>it's totally impossible, but after
>so many false alarms I
>have a hard time believing
>it wasn't human error on
>the part of an applicant
>or a misunderstanding somewhere.
>
>Another interesting note - I've never
>seen one where it was
>due to a credit card
>being denied. That can happen,
>but the DWR licensing folks
>will make a ton of
>effort to contact people who
>have a denied card to
>get it corrected. Very, very
>few people miss out on
>tags due to bad credit
>cards.
>
>
>
>Dax
Do you know whether or not the DWR odds report numbers are 1st choice only or are they complete totals?
