Colorado moose
- Thread starter DW
- Start date
Yes Jager I took the pic. Now knowing the temperament of this particular bull I'd wait till I closed the distance to 15yds, like I did to get this pic and shoot in self defense! 
I've never been an intentional spine shooter, I generally wait for the broadside double lung shot as it allows for the largest margin of error. You'll be reading a lot of threads of shots gone wrong in the coming months, read them closely and learn from the experiences of those hunters.
I've never been an intentional spine shooter, I generally wait for the broadside double lung shot as it allows for the largest margin of error. You'll be reading a lot of threads of shots gone wrong in the coming months, read them closely and learn from the experiences of those hunters.
DW, et al. I have no... I mean ZERO Experience as do most in other States shooting Elk or Moose. I never have killed an Elk so I claim zero experience.
My Father died before my 10th Birthday however, I was learning Marksmanship from an even younger age. Later a Mentor said Spinal shots are best but only if you know your weapon and your abilities Plus, can perform such accuracy in up or down hill shots and, much more that only you the shooter can guarantee due to practice all year and inner honesty. He taught me more and my first 8 Bucks were over a thousand yards, each witnessed by another person. This became a joke among close friends that I only "SEE" Deer in the next zip code.
I was also a Trapper and learned to visually make an "X" from ear to opposite eye and the center is a path to the Brain. I studied skeletons of all animals along with Muscle groups like Butchering Game and those seen for Humans in Dr's Offices and the paths of Arteries because, I also did Archery and simply enjoyed to study and learn. I will study deeply, almost anything.
I won't get graphic but I was highly interested in Ballistics. During Human Autopsies I was fascinated in the Affect (Verb) and Effect (Noun) of Projectiles. This coupled with field reports of events after a shot plus time lines, gave me more. Many factors come into play with such events. Humans are different than Game.
In all of my life what I have come to conclude is there are so many variables at times, no one can offer continuous absolutes. I mentioned I won't get graphic but there are some components that do have near absolutes.
"I AM" here to "LEARN" from you DW (a great man I respect) and the "et al"'s = all others.
In my above copy picture I placed a Red Dot where I, a neophyte, would aim. The below is again, my instant (Knee Jerk) aiming spot.
Let me Politely ask: Would either of my two Red Dots produced an instant..."spotted game, killed game" vs, waiting for the TV Eastern Hunting shows wherein the Hunters all await a solid broadside position before ever shooting..? Remember folks, I am being polite and interested in learning from you. I've dropped countless Bucks but am highly interested in learning more. I am also not against a shot as DW mentioned. Such would be odd for me and yet, a solid secondary option I know has worked perfectly well.
Jagerdad
( PS: DW, I truly Respect you and will do in shooting Elk, as you instruct me. )
Note Red Dot below wherein if right now, I had such Game to take:
My Father died before my 10th Birthday however, I was learning Marksmanship from an even younger age. Later a Mentor said Spinal shots are best but only if you know your weapon and your abilities Plus, can perform such accuracy in up or down hill shots and, much more that only you the shooter can guarantee due to practice all year and inner honesty. He taught me more and my first 8 Bucks were over a thousand yards, each witnessed by another person. This became a joke among close friends that I only "SEE" Deer in the next zip code.
I was also a Trapper and learned to visually make an "X" from ear to opposite eye and the center is a path to the Brain. I studied skeletons of all animals along with Muscle groups like Butchering Game and those seen for Humans in Dr's Offices and the paths of Arteries because, I also did Archery and simply enjoyed to study and learn. I will study deeply, almost anything.
I won't get graphic but I was highly interested in Ballistics. During Human Autopsies I was fascinated in the Affect (Verb) and Effect (Noun) of Projectiles. This coupled with field reports of events after a shot plus time lines, gave me more. Many factors come into play with such events. Humans are different than Game.
In all of my life what I have come to conclude is there are so many variables at times, no one can offer continuous absolutes. I mentioned I won't get graphic but there are some components that do have near absolutes.
"I AM" here to "LEARN" from you DW (a great man I respect) and the "et al"'s = all others.
In my above copy picture I placed a Red Dot where I, a neophyte, would aim. The below is again, my instant (Knee Jerk) aiming spot.
Let me Politely ask: Would either of my two Red Dots produced an instant..."spotted game, killed game" vs, waiting for the TV Eastern Hunting shows wherein the Hunters all await a solid broadside position before ever shooting..? Remember folks, I am being polite and interested in learning from you. I've dropped countless Bucks but am highly interested in learning more. I am also not against a shot as DW mentioned. Such would be odd for me and yet, a solid secondary option I know has worked perfectly well.
Jagerdad
( PS: DW, I truly Respect you and will do in shooting Elk, as you instruct me. )
Note Red Dot below wherein if right now, I had such Game to take:
I think both your dots maybe a tad high in trying for a spine shot. I played cat and mouse with these two bulls in 8ft willows for 15 minutes to get 20 or so pics. They weren't going anywhere they didn't wanna go, but in those 15 minutes they were perfectly broadside multiple times. On a moose the heart/lung/liver area is probably the size of four basketballs. The spine is only a softball sized target. A bullet in either is a dead moose. The spine shot drops him where he stands, while he may trot off 100yds or so with a lung shot. But both result in a dead moose. I'm sure you're a great shot like many on this forum, and much better than I, I just don't see a reason to take a shot at a smaller target. I took a neck shot on a cow once and was a tad high, no vertebrae. Took a mile to catch up to her, directly away from the truck of course! JMO
Try this link:
http://ucalgary.ca/caribou/Skeleton.html
Then move the mouse over the image.
When done, try this:
http://ucalgary.ca/caribou/CaribouAnatomy.html
Again, after selecting a topic, move the mouse over the Body and see what is there.
Anatomy is cool. Some MM'eys may use these links to teach their Youth.
Jagerdad
http://ucalgary.ca/caribou/Skeleton.html
Then move the mouse over the image.
When done, try this:
http://ucalgary.ca/caribou/CaribouAnatomy.html
Again, after selecting a topic, move the mouse over the Body and see what is there.
Anatomy is cool. Some MM'eys may use these links to teach their Youth.
Jagerdad
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,604
In the excitement of the hunt, no way will I bank on the tricky neck or spine shot! It's just not in the cards for me, ever.
Even at that last angle, you could slip a well-constructed bullet into the boiler-room..... and always prepare to shoot again! One shot kills are for those slow folks on TV who can't work a bolt!
Zeke
Even at that last angle, you could slip a well-constructed bullet into the boiler-room..... and always prepare to shoot again! One shot kills are for those slow folks on TV who can't work a bolt!
Zeke
I am here to learn.
Have either of you used my #8 Post and gone to all the links within it to study anatomy...?
I have a 375 H&H Mag and others but my hang up has been spinal shots. I am a weird guy insofar as not getting excited on Game. It may be due to facing many humans with guns aimed and firing "At Me", Olympic Training in mental stability or, just my chemistry.
In Hunting I am calm. Everything slows down like in slow motion.
Can you place a dot closer to the first placement you'd instantly do.
But remember #8 and what's in it please.
Have either of you used my #8 Post and gone to all the links within it to study anatomy...?
I have a 375 H&H Mag and others but my hang up has been spinal shots. I am a weird guy insofar as not getting excited on Game. It may be due to facing many humans with guns aimed and firing "At Me", Olympic Training in mental stability or, just my chemistry.
In Hunting I am calm. Everything slows down like in slow motion.
Can you place a dot closer to the first placement you'd instantly do.
But remember #8 and what's in it please.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,453
Jager, In my opinion I think your shot placement is fine and would result in instant death. The only issue I see with taking those shots is that a slight miss would result in a total miss, which might spook the animal and you would lose the opportunity. Or worse yet a slight miss could result in a terribly wounded and lost animal. I've seen deer with their jaw almost shot off, run off never to be seen again.
You can be the best shot in the world and an animal can move at just the wrong time and you'll end up in a messy situation.
A shot in the boiler leaves a lot more room for those variables.
I don't think we'll ever hunt together if you don't see my point, but you're free to do as you wish.
You can be the best shot in the world and an animal can move at just the wrong time and you'll end up in a messy situation.
A shot in the boiler leaves a lot more room for those variables.
I don't think we'll ever hunt together if you don't see my point, but you're free to do as you wish.
http://ucalgary.ca/caribou/Sampling.html
The above link is DIFFERENT than #8. This link is helpful for Meat Values.
Go to bottom Left, Click on small picture, read, then click on next small scrolling picture, selecting each as you move right.
This may be helpful for new Hunters and those whom wish to learn from a different view.
Jagerdad
PS: Upper tabs on #8 post (both) brings viewer to a wide array of anatomy. Not Moosey but good.
The above link is DIFFERENT than #8. This link is helpful for Meat Values.
Go to bottom Left, Click on small picture, read, then click on next small scrolling picture, selecting each as you move right.
This may be helpful for new Hunters and those whom wish to learn from a different view.
Jagerdad
PS: Upper tabs on #8 post (both) brings viewer to a wide array of anatomy. Not Moosey but good.
I see and AGREE 100% with you and DW.
I was/am exposing, in writing, for all to see, what equates to "My Instant Mental Reactions".
Its opposite with Humans in a life & death situation. Why...??... may simply how I have performed in a lifetime of Hunting game. In Waterfowl I see head shots.
Maybe as a youth in the 1960's-1970's my mentor said the same as you and neck shots, being the best, are reserved ONLY for special moments. The results of me becoming a winner in matches, state, national and international exposed me to those men who said they took a match shooter Hunting and they couldn't hit squat. Maybe such was bar-Stool talk, I won't judge. It's been true for me when I take classroom experts afield. They can't see the Ground Squirrel at 50, 100, 300 600 yards, so I go about my way, shooting them.
I was also taught to shoot your Hunting Rifle/Handgun all year and at live challenging game. I did so in very steep hills using everything from my 300 win mag to handgun 38 wadcutters on a very high wind day. That was funny.
I've been reloading since age 12 when given a 12 ga Lee Loader.
Like I mentioned, I am here to learn. I also "DO NOT" disagree with anyone. I have spotted Bucks while standing and made running up-hill, down-hill and angled positional shots and never in my life have I missed the Neck or experienced anything except the game dropping as if ten tons of bricks landed upon them.
I exposed myself and for some, I left many openings to attack. Yet, there's really no need for an attack because each of us are different and have different life experiences.
And.... I have never had an Elk, Antelope or Moose for game.
I have friends in Montana who have said Elk can soak up Bullets like a sponge and never show signs of being hit. Those folks have bagged many Elk.
When my 12 Year Old Daughter was selected for a California Bull Tule Elk, Period one, Grizzly Island, I taught her to aim for a Heat shot. 262 yards with a 7mm-08 and the Elk was down. I still have the frozen Heart with a 1 1/4" hole bored through it. So I know YOUR way works well.
Jagerdad
I was/am exposing, in writing, for all to see, what equates to "My Instant Mental Reactions".
Its opposite with Humans in a life & death situation. Why...??... may simply how I have performed in a lifetime of Hunting game. In Waterfowl I see head shots.
Maybe as a youth in the 1960's-1970's my mentor said the same as you and neck shots, being the best, are reserved ONLY for special moments. The results of me becoming a winner in matches, state, national and international exposed me to those men who said they took a match shooter Hunting and they couldn't hit squat. Maybe such was bar-Stool talk, I won't judge. It's been true for me when I take classroom experts afield. They can't see the Ground Squirrel at 50, 100, 300 600 yards, so I go about my way, shooting them.
I was also taught to shoot your Hunting Rifle/Handgun all year and at live challenging game. I did so in very steep hills using everything from my 300 win mag to handgun 38 wadcutters on a very high wind day. That was funny.
I've been reloading since age 12 when given a 12 ga Lee Loader.
Like I mentioned, I am here to learn. I also "DO NOT" disagree with anyone. I have spotted Bucks while standing and made running up-hill, down-hill and angled positional shots and never in my life have I missed the Neck or experienced anything except the game dropping as if ten tons of bricks landed upon them.
I exposed myself and for some, I left many openings to attack. Yet, there's really no need for an attack because each of us are different and have different life experiences.
And.... I have never had an Elk, Antelope or Moose for game.
I have friends in Montana who have said Elk can soak up Bullets like a sponge and never show signs of being hit. Those folks have bagged many Elk.
When my 12 Year Old Daughter was selected for a California Bull Tule Elk, Period one, Grizzly Island, I taught her to aim for a Heat shot. 262 yards with a 7mm-08 and the Elk was down. I still have the frozen Heart with a 1 1/4" hole bored through it. So I know YOUR way works well.
Jagerdad
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,604
>I am here to learn.
>
>
>I have a 375 H&H Mag
>and others but my hang
>up has been spinal shots.
>I am a weird guy
>insofar as not getting excited
>on Game. It may be
>due to facing many humans
>with guns aimed and firing
>"At Me", Olympic Training in
>mental stability or, just my
>chemistry.
>
>In Hunting I am calm. Everything
>slows down like in slow
>motion.
>
Jag, All that may be true but even with the hundreds up to thousands of rifle rounds I shoot per year, why do I shoot slightly over or under a prairie dog even when I know the range and my trajectory?
My answer is: because they're a damn small target and that's fine for practice but I want the largest margin foe error on big game.
With that said, do what you want.
Zeke
>
>
>I have a 375 H&H Mag
>and others but my hang
>up has been spinal shots.
>I am a weird guy
>insofar as not getting excited
>on Game. It may be
>due to facing many humans
>with guns aimed and firing
>"At Me", Olympic Training in
>mental stability or, just my
>chemistry.
>
>In Hunting I am calm. Everything
>slows down like in slow
>motion.
>
Jag, All that may be true but even with the hundreds up to thousands of rifle rounds I shoot per year, why do I shoot slightly over or under a prairie dog even when I know the range and my trajectory?
My answer is: because they're a damn small target and that's fine for practice but I want the largest margin foe error on big game.
With that said, do what you want.
Zeke
Adventurewriter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,292
Moose are actually pretty easy to kill their vital are so big...why play around with fancy shots...
cbeard
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,458
>Moose are actually pretty easy to
>kill their vital are so
>big...why play around with fancy
>shots...
This. Leaving oneself little to no margin of error when the animal is presenting itself for a shot with a huge amount of margin for error makes no sense at all.
>kill their vital are so
>big...why play around with fancy
>shots...
This. Leaving oneself little to no margin of error when the animal is presenting itself for a shot with a huge amount of margin for error makes no sense at all.
